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Originally Posted by Pleasurepays
What difference does it make? How much false information does ANYONE get interrogating ANYONE about a crime get? Every time the police ask a question they get lied to. That's part of the deal.
What planet do you live on where people say "yes officer, i was doing 108 miles per hour AND i'm drunk... you need to arrest me, impound my car, charge me with at least wreckless driving and dui"... or "yeah, of course that's my crack pipe, who's else would it be"
It's not like the CIA or any other government intelligence agency of any nation are a bunch of naive, inexperienced jokers expecting full, complete and 100% honest confessions right from the start. the whole point is to start breaking people down until they DO tell the truth.
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You are correct. Most people who are guilty of something do lie to the police/authorities to get out of it. I have several friends who are cops and they all tell me that they assume everyone that they talk to is lying until they have a reason to believe otherwise.
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Don't you think that sending the message to every terrorist in the world that says "hey, don't worry if you get caught,... they'll be required by their own laws and rules to treat you like royalty... so just kick back, relax and keep your mouth shut and don't worry about anything" is now a poster for terrorist recruiters?
How about trying to honestly answer this question: "What do you think terrorist groups are thinking right now while watching this impossibly retarded debate about how well they should be treated should they be captured and publicly detailing the limits of how much they can be pressured into giving up information"
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No, the message we should be sending is nothing. We should develop our own energy sources and gain energy independence so that we have no reason to do business with the middle east. We should pull out of every middle eastern country and turn our back on that cesspool of a shitstained part of the world. Maybe that won't cause them to 100% forget about us, but it will give them a lot less reasons to hate us. If we leave, someone else will take out place and I think a lot of these terrorist groups will turn their attention to that country and forget about us.
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Of course torture works. people in this nation are extremely naive.
Take Russia for example. If you live in Russia, you might notice something super interesting about watching crime shows like the Russian equivalent of "COPS" on tv. that is that EVERY single person who committed a serious crime like murdering people or several ends up giving a full, complete confession on camera, walking everyone through the crime scene, taking them to where the body(s) are on camera and so on. Then you start seeing the common pattern of them having busted up faces, limping etc. I know tons of cops in Russia. They get confessions almost every time for major crimes before they got to trial. Do you think that's done by simply asking?
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First off there are many experts who would disagree with you and say that torture doesn't work and that it isn't anymore effective than other interrogation methods. But that isn't the point. Forget them. Here is the question. How many innocent people have the Russian cops tortured? I'm sure they don't show that on the Russian version of COPS. Do you want to live in a country where you live in fear of the police? Do you want to live in a country where if you get picked up for something, something you didn't do, you are going to get tortured until they decide you are telling them the truth? Or maybe you will break down and tell them what you think they want to hear just so they will stop. I personally don't want to live in that kind of country.
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I'm not saying its right or wrong... i'm saying its 100% fact that they fuck people up until they talk and give up the full details of what happened. Saying that can't work or doesn't is totally absurd when its done all over the world, every single day. Police, mafia ... intelligence agencies, secret police.. whoever. It's not like the CIA was the first one to think up the idea of putting someone in a room and fucking them up until they talk... or telling them that their wife is going to get killed or whatever. It's not an original concept that was invented on the battle field yesterday or in someones secret police dungeon yesterday.
The question shouldn't be "Does torture work" - that's fucking retarded. If you know something and i want to get it from you... its easy. I can fuck you up for days, not let you sleep, beat the shit out of you, bust you into pieces until you break down and talk.
The only questions should be "when is it justifiable to apply certain techniques to certain individuals"... but to sit here and suggest that if you know something and i want that information, that there is no way i can get you to give me that information is extremely dishonest.
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Again, I'm not going to argue if it works or not. I think in some cases it does and in other cases it does not. I still think though that when you do these kinds of things eventually the story gets out and eventually it gets back to the people we are fighting and they use it a fuel for recruiting more people to hate us. To me it is like the invasion of Iraq. Yes, we got Saddam out of power and yes we killed some terrorist, but I feel by doing this we created 20 terrorist for every 1 that we killed. The more it gets out that we torture, the more it adds fuel to the fire. This is not a military war we are fighting. It is a war of ideals and we have to be willing to show the world that on a moral grounds we are superior.