Your history in this biz means nothing! Stop paying today and you throw everything away! - GoFuckYourself.com

Shap · 12-14-2010, 09:52 AM

In most cases when people leave this biz they always do it with a scam. They leave people high and dry. I don't know why, that is just really dumb imo. I've done very well. I've saved a lot of money. I've enjoyed a life that I never dreamed possible. All thanks to this industry and the people in it. If anything I'd go out with a bang in a good way and throw the biggest promo ever or something like that. Maybe that's just me. I know I'm generalizing. There are plenty of people that went out the right way. Fantasyman, Mike AI, Marc De etc. I just think with 2011 around the corner I'm not expecting to see many people go out like that. I'm expecting to see a continued increase in how many people leave us high and dry.

Last night's CyberAge Dave threads really got me thinking. The more I think about it I think Will's approach is the better approach for a lot of us (especially those with an influential voice) to have. You can not rely on someone's history. If someone stops paying today they erase 10 years of history and no matter how good they WERE they are now amongst those that do not pay and until they prove otherwise they can't be trusted. Not only that the word has to be spread. We've seen it all too many times when it comes down to it the people that leave us all high and dry have no friends in this business. They burn their reputation and every relationship for their last score in this biz.

It's important to be responsible when doing this. You have to exhaust the proper channels (email, icq, phone) first before coming to GFY. Once you've done that and sufficient time has passed (ie check isn't lost in the mail) it's important to see if others are experiencing the same thing.

I have a bad feeling that the disappearing act is going to be very trendy in 2011

Sly · 12-14-2010, 09:54 AM

What's the saying? You're only as good as your last win.

Shap · 12-14-2010, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sly

What's the saying? You're only as good as your last win.

Yep. What have you done for me lately.

fatfoo · 12-14-2010, 09:56 AM

Often times, the history of how much money you had will not help you. How much money you have right now will help you. Good luck!

Shap · 12-14-2010, 09:56 AM

Screw someone over and you are a scumbag. It doesn't matter if you are new to the biz or have 15 years experience. In fact the longer you've been around the worst it makes it imo.

ADL Colin · 12-14-2010, 09:58 AM

Good post.

Not sure about the biggest promo but hell, people should pay their bills until the end.

Shap · 12-14-2010, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADL Colin

Good post.

Not sure about the biggest promo but hell, people should pay their bills until the end.

yeah that was my point you have to at least pay your bills. Why completely burn the bridge forever. It makes no sense. It's not other people's fault if you are bad with money.

Juicy D. Links · 12-14-2010, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shap

Screw someone over and you are a scumbag.

pretty much sums it up and totally agree with you on this...

jscott · 12-14-2010, 10:01 AM

Cyberage Dave even has the nerve to stand behind his decision to steal from legitimate webmasters

This guy seems to be a true piece of shit, I'll be sure to mention him in the most recent scams of the industry

Shap · 12-14-2010, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juicy D. Links

pretty much sums it up and totally agree with you on this...

LOL FUCK I know I only thought up of that after I had made the post. I have trouble condensing my thoughts into few words LOL

seeric · 12-14-2010, 10:02 AM

mostly because people who scam know that they can get the sheep to send traffic again no matter what. the webmaster has been trained by programs for 10 years to take the highest PPS and run. most of them anyhow.

you can scam someone today, and come back next year with a new front, a new face guy, and a big PPS with a good marketing rollout and 9 out of 10 will just fall right back into place. people will know that its the same person that scammed everyone, except the greed of the quick big money overrides their logic.

i have seen it happen over and over, and so have you.

many webmasters do not make decisions with their brain, they make them with the dollar signs in their eyes. sometimes fast money isn't always the best decision, but it's the most gratifying to the adult webmaster in most cases.

imho. i agree though. pay on the way out and at least keep your dignity.

Brujah · 12-14-2010, 10:04 AM

I don't know, maybe CyberageDave isn't allowed to admit what's really going on. Jack is the boss.

Shap · 12-14-2010, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jscott

Cyberage Dave even has the nerve to stand behind his decision to steal from legitimate webmasters

This guy seems to be a true piece of shit, I'll be sure to mention him in the most recent scams of the industry

You know I'm shocked he hasn't addressed the business accusations that have been made against him. I was tempted to defend him last night (before he posted) simply because I would hope people would defend me. But the reality is why should I ever put myself in a position to need to defend myself and not only that why would I wait 2months to do so. When someone's livelihood is at stake the least you can do is reply to them and let them know what's up. If you can't do that you are a piece of shit imo.

Noe · 12-14-2010, 10:05 AM

One of my golden rules; never burn bridges.

MaDalton · 12-14-2010, 10:06 AM

what i don't understand is why people do not sell their businesses while they are still profitable. instead of running them down and squeezing the last drop out of it. but this is not something that happens only in adult internet, i saw the same in my mainstream job before i came here.

Shap · 12-14-2010, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seeric

mostly because people who scam know that they can get the sheep to send traffic again no matter what. the webmaster has been trained by programs for 10 years to take the highest PPS and run. most of them anyhow.

you can scam someone today, and come back next year with a new front, a new face guy, and a big PPS with a good marketing rollout and 9 out of 10 will just fall right back into place. people will know that its the same person that scammed everyone, except the greed of the quick big money overrides their logic.

i have seen it happen over and over, and so have you.

many webmasters do not make decisions with their brain, they make them with the dollar signs in their eyes. sometimes fast money isn't always the best decision, but it's the most gratifying to the adult webmaster in most cases.

imho. i agree though. pay on the way out and at least keep your dignity.

Yeah that trick has worked for years. I think it's starting to dry up. But who knows. As an example Fat Albert will probably be back with a new program in 2011 and get people to promote him.

Shap · 12-14-2010, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDalton

what i don't understand is why people do not sell their businesses while they are still profitable. instead of running them down and squeezing the last drop out of it. but this is not something that happens only in adult internet, i saw the same in my mainstream job before i came here.

One word

GREED

I've talked to many guys who wanted to sell. They always way overvalue their product and believe they can do better. Then when they don't and then can't pay their bills they have no choice to rip us all off.

Shap · 12-14-2010, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noe

One of my golden rules; never burn bridges.

Yeah same here. I like to sleep at night. I like to be able to live my life with no worries. I wouldn't want to be vacationing with my family and all of a sudden be threatened by someone I screwed over. It's not worth it. Life's too short to have to look over your shoulder worrying about your past.

Bryan G · 12-14-2010, 10:09 AM

have to agree here, I'm sure you will see many continue to disappear in the coming year.

CaptainHowdy · 12-14-2010, 10:10 AM

I'm also pushing for the demise of the "bro" system of "thought" (from my small part as a poster)...

Brujah · 12-14-2010, 10:12 AM

does Jack Guiragosian, cyberage founder even post here?

Shap · 12-14-2010, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainHowdy

I'm also pushing for the demise of the "bro" system of "thought" (from my small part as a poster)...

I'm on board. I believe you won't see it as strong in 2011.

Shap · 12-14-2010, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brujah

does Jack Guiragosian, cyberage founder even post here?

Maybe he has a personal blog we can link

Brujah · 12-14-2010, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shap

Maybe he has a personal blog we can link

maybe that's where he addresses why webmasters have been locked out and unpaid lately

JFK · 12-14-2010, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brujah

I don't know, maybe CyberageDave isn't allowed to admit what's really going on. Jack is the boss.

Never knew he had a partner, always appeared to be in control. Is this the 'rouge webmaster' syndrome ?

Shap · 12-14-2010, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brujah

maybe that's where he addresses why webmasters have been locked out and unpaid lately

I know. Dave went off the handle yesterday but that got him to post here. So I have to agree that he's put his name out there and if he wants to ignore people then guess what everything is fair game. If you don't pay someone don't be surprised when your wife and family are drawn in.

Brujah · 12-14-2010, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JFK

Never knew he had a partner, always appeared to be in control. Is this the 'rouge webmaster' syndrome ?

A page out of the Adultcheck playbook maybe, since I believe Jack (and maybe Dave) used to work there.

Shap · 12-14-2010, 10:16 AM

If you screw someone over everything is fair game. Your family doesn't get to hide and enjoy the riches while you steal from innocent people.

96ukssob · 12-14-2010, 10:17 AM

i never understood this myself. burning bridges is never a good idea

Ross · 12-14-2010, 10:18 AM

Your post is just common sense Shap. I wouldn't even limit it to the Adult Industry, it is true in every industry.

There will always be sheep tho who will follow people to the end, then wonder why they got burned bad.

Shap · 12-14-2010, 10:21 AM

Years ago Serge ran a little site called the good the bad and the ugly. It was designed to promote the good guys and expose the frauds. I've been really thinking about it over the past few months. It may be time to start something up like that again. Kinda like a first stop for all of us to go when a check goes missing. First thing we do is see if anybody else has reported the same thing. Then go from there.

One payment missing --> good chance it's a mistake
Two payments missing --> probably not a mistake
Three payments missing --> you just got screwed.

signupdamnit · 12-14-2010, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shap

Screw someone over and you are a scumbag. It doesn't matter if you are new to the biz or have 15 years experience. In fact the longer you've been around the worst it makes it imo.

For me if someone is honest about it and simply says "I don't have any money to pay you right now. I'm sorry I plan to pay you <date>" I can accept that. Likewise if the company is declaring Chapter 7 bankruptcy and will be leaving the internet industry entirely I can also accept that. But what really pisses me off is when someone tries to blame me for them not paying me and tries to say that it is because I am cheating them when I am not. It then becomes personal to me. I'm usually a pretty nice guy and understanding but I couldn't rule out doing something like posting flyers in their neighborhood about them being a scumbag or something of that nature. I'm sure there are people out there far worse. Thankfully the latest debacle will not get me though it bothers me to see good people getting screwed.

Yeah, Definitely don't fuck with people. If you really can't pay (as opposed to being greedy), you can't pay. But that doesn't mean you have to be disrespectful about it.

Shap · 12-14-2010, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

For me if someone is honest about it and simply says "I don't have any money to pay you right now. I'm sorry I plan to pay you <date>" I can accept that. Likewise if the company is declaring Chapter 7 bankruptcy and will be leaving the internet industry entirely I can also accept that. But what really pisses me off is when someone tries to blame me for them not paying me and tries to say that it is because I am cheating them when I am not. It then becomes personal to me. I'm usually a pretty nice guy and understanding but I couldn't rule out doing something like posting flyers in their neighborhood about them being a scumbag or something of that nature. I'm sure there are people out there far worse. Thankfully the latest debacle will not get me though it bothers me to see good people getting screwed.

Yeah, Definitely don't fuck with people. If you really can't pay (as opposed to being greedy), you can't pay. But that doesn't mean you have to be disrespectful about it.

I agree 100%

quiet · 12-14-2010, 10:24 AM

the guy has a ton of exotic cars. he could just sell one, and probably pay everyone out. unreal.

JFK · 12-14-2010, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brujah

A page out of the Adultcheck playbook maybe, since I believe Jack (and maybe Dave) used to work there.

I was thinking that,

he posted this in another thread .......

It's people that have not updated their sites in years, most of them have dead links and never cared to update their sites and they make our links pages look bad. We have paid out Millions without having to make a sale. The free ride is over and we are focusing on webmasters that are keeping their sites updated, making new sales every month and dedicated on using our services.

Imortyl Pussycat · 12-14-2010, 10:30 AM

i hate to say this but when i see all these "new" programs launched over the last year or two, i avoid looking into them because i am afraid to trust that they actually are new or that they have enough backing to make it even a year after their initial big spend on launch and promoting. i could be missing out on something very profitable but i just don't want to take the chance.

Brujah · 12-14-2010, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JFK

I was thinking that,

he posted this in another thread .......

It's people that have not updated their sites in years, most of them have dead links and never cared to update their sites and they make our links pages look bad. We have paid out Millions without having to make a sale. The free ride is over and we are focusing on webmasters that are keeping their sites updated, making new sales every month and dedicated on using our services.

Except in Cyberage's case, the linklist was blocked behind middle pages and other cyberage-favorable listings. Adultcheck links went straight to the sites, so there wasn't the same type of skimming for years that Cyberage did.

quiet · 12-14-2010, 10:32 AM

the so-called established programs are no longer any different.

quiet · 12-14-2010, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brujah

Except in Cyberage's case, the linklist was blocked behind middle pages and other cyberage-favorable listings. Adultcheck links went straight to the sites, so there wasn't the same type of skimming for years that Cyberage did.

yup 8 char.

Paper_Amar · 12-14-2010, 10:36 AM

How can you sleep at night after pullling moves like this?

Agent 488 · 12-14-2010, 10:40 AM

biz on the decline, sees the writing on the wall, hoard whatever cash whatever way you can to maintain ones lifestyle.

Brujah · 12-14-2010, 10:45 AM

Compdoctor is rolling over in his grave.

WiredGuy · 12-14-2010, 10:50 AM

For most people that's true. One example to the contrary is WEGCash. Their last payments, albeit late, came through at their expense. They were not paid and made a large loss to take care of their affiliates when they knew they would be closing up shop. Something like that will resonate with someone like me a lot more than someone who closed up and left. And if they ever do release a new affiliate progam, I'd be more than happy to promote them.
WG

Dwreck · 12-14-2010, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brujah

Compdoctor is rolling over in his grave.

That's an old school name I never heard in a long time.

Shap · 12-14-2010, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WiredGuy

For most people that's true. One example to the contrary is WEGCash. Their last payments, albeit late, came through at their expense. They were not paid and made a large loss to take care of their affiliates when they knew they would be closing up shop. Something like that will resonate with someone like me a lot more than someone who closed up and left. And if they ever do release a new affiliate progam, I'd be more than happy to promote them.
WG

Exactly. Not only that many people here are not limited to adult. If you want to branch out and start a new mainstream venture (which is the way many people go) it's nice to have people you can call to either get help, feedback or do new business with.

SteveHardeman · 12-14-2010, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shap

I have a bad feeling that the disappearing act is going to be very trendy in 2011

Hmmm, I was thinking that there was SOOO much cleanout in 2010 that there won't be as much to clean out in 2011.

Quote:

Originally Posted by seeric

i have seen it happen over and over, and so have you.

I know a lot of people and programs have screwed people over but which ones have screwed people over and then come back with a new program and been successful? Or shit, just come back, whether successful or not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDalton

what i don't understand is why people do not sell their businesses while they are still profitable. instead of running them down and squeezing the last drop out of it. but this is not something that happens only in adult internet, i saw the same in my mainstream job before i came here.

Adult business values are lower than ever.
My guess is that the owners see that it is more profitable for them to stop paying webmasters and soak up the remaining billing rather than outright selling. Perhaps when they see that there are consequences to that decision, this will happen less often. But, I haven't seen many consequences thus far.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shap

One word

GREED

I've talked to many guys who wanted to sell. They always way overvalue their product and believe they can do better. Then when they don't and then can't pay their bills they have no choice to rip us all off.

Or they made a conscious decision to stop paying webmasters and keep all the billing for themselves as that would be more profitable than selling out in today's market.

TisMe · 12-14-2010, 11:05 AM

What I remember from the Adultcheck vs Agecheck lawsuit years ago was that Adultcheck accused the founders of Agecheck of stealing info while doing work at Adultcheck or the founder's home (don't remember which).

The case was settled and as a part of the settlement Agecheck changed their name to Cyberage.

That is how I remember it from many years ago.

Roald · 12-14-2010, 11:12 AM

this happens in every industry and not only adult.

will76 · 12-14-2010, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TisMe

What I remember from the Adultcheck vs Agecheck lawsuit years ago was that Adultcheck accused the founders of Agecheck of stealing info while doing work at Adultcheck or the founder's home (don't remember which).

The case was settled and as a part of the settlement Agecheck changed their name to Cyberage.

That is how I remember it from many years ago.

I knew that way back, but had forgotten and forgot how it was cyberage that was involved with that.

JFK · 12-14-2010, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will76

I knew that way back, but had forgotten and forgot how it was cyberage that was involved with that.

Yes, it was, I was with Adultcheck at the time

12-14-2010, 09:52 AM	#1
Shap Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 8,313	Your history in this biz means nothing! Stop paying today and you throw everything away! In most cases when people leave this biz they always do it with a scam. They leave people high and dry. I don't know why, that is just really dumb imo. I've done very well. I've saved a lot of money. I've enjoyed a life that I never dreamed possible. All thanks to this industry and the people in it. If anything I'd go out with a bang in a good way and throw the biggest promo ever or something like that. Maybe that's just me. I know I'm generalizing. There are plenty of people that went out the right way. Fantasyman, Mike AI, Marc De etc. I just think with 2011 around the corner I'm not expecting to see many people go out like that. I'm expecting to see a continued increase in how many people leave us high and dry. Last night's CyberAge Dave threads really got me thinking. The more I think about it I think Will's approach is the better approach for a lot of us (especially those with an influential voice) to have. You can not rely on someone's history. If someone stops paying today they erase 10 years of history and no matter how good they WERE they are now amongst those that do not pay and until they prove otherwise they can't be trusted. Not only that the word has to be spread. We've seen it all too many times when it comes down to it the people that leave us all high and dry have no friends in this business. They burn their reputation and every relationship for their last score in this biz. It's important to be responsible when doing this. You have to exhaust the proper channels (email, icq, phone) first before coming to GFY. Once you've done that and sufficient time has passed (ie check isn't lost in the mail) it's important to see if others are experiencing the same thing. I have a bad feeling that the disappearing act is going to be very trendy in 2011

12-14-2010, 09:54 AM	#2
Sly Let's do some business! Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 31,244	What's the saying? You're only as good as your last win. __________________ Vacares - Web Hosting, Domains, O365, Security & More - Paxum and BTC Accepted Fully Managed VPS, Daily Backups Included - Starting at $25. Contact for more info. Sell me your: Paysites and Hosting Company. Buy my: Aged Domains and Sites

12-14-2010, 09:56 AM	#4
fatfoo ICQ:649699063 Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 27,763	Often times, the history of how much money you had will not help you. How much money you have right now will help you. Good luck! __________________ Send me an email: [email protected]

12-14-2010, 09:58 AM	#6
ADL Colin Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Tube Titans, USA Posts: 11,929	Good post. Not sure about the biggest promo but hell, people should pay their bills until the end. __________________ Adult Date Link - $50 PPS starting NOW! -- good and JUICY! skype = "adultdatelink"

12-14-2010, 10:04 AM	#12
Brujah Beer Money Baron Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: brujah / gmail Posts: 22,157	I don't know, maybe CyberageDave isn't allowed to admit what's really going on. Jack is the boss. __________________ Free Premium Domain Lists and Tools at Clickmojo.com For Sale: Obscenity.com

12-14-2010, 10:01 AM	#9
jscott So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Taipei Posts: 25,198	Cyberage Dave even has the nerve to stand behind his decision to steal from legitimate webmasters This guy seems to be a true piece of shit, I'll be sure to mention him in the most recent scams of the industry

12-14-2010, 10:02 AM	#11
seeric .......... Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: .......... Posts: 41,918	mostly because people who scam know that they can get the sheep to send traffic again no matter what. the webmaster has been trained by programs for 10 years to take the highest PPS and run. most of them anyhow. you can scam someone today, and come back next year with a new front, a new face guy, and a big PPS with a good marketing rollout and 9 out of 10 will just fall right back into place. people will know that its the same person that scammed everyone, except the greed of the quick big money overrides their logic. i have seen it happen over and over, and so have you. many webmasters do not make decisions with their brain, they make them with the dollar signs in their eyes. sometimes fast money isn't always the best decision, but it's the most gratifying to the adult webmaster in most cases. imho. i agree though. pay on the way out and at least keep your dignity.

12-14-2010, 10:05 AM	#14
Noe Confirmed User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,082	One of my golden rules; never burn bridges. __________________ www.xxxcontentdirect.com www.extremefeeds.com ICQ: 169980934 [email protected]

12-14-2010, 10:06 AM	#15
MaDalton I am Amazing Content! Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Cheque Republic Posts: 39,804	what i don't understand is why people do not sell their businesses while they are still profitable. instead of running them down and squeezing the last drop out of it. but this is not something that happens only in adult internet, i saw the same in my mainstream job before i came here. __________________ AmazingContent.com - providing only the best content and service since 2003 Monetize your content on Veegaz.com - one of Germanies largest VOD sites Skype: madalton02826 - Email: oltecconsult [at] gmail [dot] com

12-14-2010, 10:09 AM	#19
Bryan G Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 8,338	have to agree here, I'm sure you will see many continue to disappear in the coming year. __________________ Bryan skype: bryan.glass3 \| ICQ 302999591

12-14-2010, 10:10 AM	#20
CaptainHowdy Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Happy in the dark. Posts: 92,207	I'm also pushing for the demise of the "bro" system of "thought" (from my small part as a poster)... __________________ Enroll in the SWAG Affiliate Asian Live Cam Program and get 9 free quality link-backs! Get those links up ASAP! --> TJEEZERS.Cam. Setup in 48 Hours max.

12-14-2010, 10:12 AM	#21
Brujah Beer Money Baron Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: brujah / gmail Posts: 22,157	does Jack Guiragosian, cyberage founder even post here? __________________ Free Premium Domain Lists and Tools at Clickmojo.com For Sale: Obscenity.com

12-14-2010, 10:16 AM	#28
Shap Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 8,313	If you screw someone over everything is fair game. Your family doesn't get to hide and enjoy the riches while you steal from innocent people.

12-14-2010, 10:17 AM	#29
96ukssob So Fucking Banananananas Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: If I was in your ass you'd know it Posts: 12,991	i never understood this myself. burning bridges is never a good idea __________________ Email: Clicky on Me

12-14-2010, 10:18 AM	#30
Ross Ik ben een aap Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Traffic Force Towers, Canada! Posts: 18,874	Your post is just common sense Shap. I wouldn't even limit it to the Adult Industry, it is true in every industry. There will always be sheep tho who will follow people to the end, then wonder why they got burned bad.

12-14-2010, 10:21 AM	#31
Shap Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 8,313	Years ago Serge ran a little site called the good the bad and the ugly. It was designed to promote the good guys and expose the frauds. I've been really thinking about it over the past few months. It may be time to start something up like that again. Kinda like a first stop for all of us to go when a check goes missing. First thing we do is see if anybody else has reported the same thing. Then go from there. One payment missing --> good chance it's a mistake Two payments missing --> probably not a mistake Three payments missing --> you just got screwed.

12-14-2010, 10:24 AM	#34
quiet we'll miss you our friend. RIP Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Fernie, BC Posts: 25,115	the guy has a ton of exotic cars. he could just sell one, and probably pay everyone out. unreal.

12-14-2010, 10:30 AM	#36
Imortyl Pussycat Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Cali Posts: 5,449	i hate to say this but when i see all these "new" programs launched over the last year or two, i avoid looking into them because i am afraid to trust that they actually are new or that they have enough backing to make it even a year after their initial big spend on launch and promoting. i could be missing out on something very profitable but i just don't want to take the chance. __________________ Julie Larson julie {at} juicyads.com skype: imortylpussycat Buy & Sell Ads on The Most Sexy Advertising Network on the Planet available ad spots \| sign up now

12-14-2010, 10:32 AM	#38
quiet we'll miss you our friend. RIP Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Fernie, BC Posts: 25,115	the so-called established programs are no longer any different.

12-14-2010, 10:36 AM	#40
Paper_Amar Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: North Miami Beach, Fl Posts: 2,607	How can you sleep at night after pullling moves like this? __________________ My icq; 4 4 7 5 4 2 1 2 8 Amar @ paper street cash .com

12-14-2010, 10:40 AM	#41
Agent 488 Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 22,511	biz on the decline, sees the writing on the wall, hoard whatever cash whatever way you can to maintain ones lifestyle.

12-14-2010, 10:45 AM	#42
Brujah Beer Money Baron Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: brujah / gmail Posts: 22,157	Compdoctor is rolling over in his grave. __________________ Free Premium Domain Lists and Tools at Clickmojo.com For Sale: Obscenity.com

12-14-2010, 10:50 AM	#43
WiredGuy Pounding Googlebot Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 34,400	For most people that's true. One example to the contrary is WEGCash. Their last payments, albeit late, came through at their expense. They were not paid and made a large loss to take care of their affiliates when they knew they would be closing up shop. Something like that will resonate with someone like me a lot more than someone who closed up and left. And if they ever do release a new affiliate progam, I'd be more than happy to promote them. WG __________________ I play with Google.

12-14-2010, 11:05 AM	#47
TisMe Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 1,719	What I remember from the Adultcheck vs Agecheck lawsuit years ago was that Adultcheck accused the founders of Agecheck of stealing info while doing work at Adultcheck or the founder's home (don't remember which). The case was settled and as a part of the settlement Agecheck changed their name to Cyberage. That is how I remember it from many years ago.

12-14-2010, 11:12 AM	#48
Roald SecretFriends.com Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Location: IMC Headquarters Posts: 27,863	this happens in every industry and not only adult. __________________ WE ARE BUYING PAY SITES! CONTACT ME ClubSweethearts \| ManUpFilms \| SinfulXXX \| HOT * AdultPrime * HOT Paying webmasters since 1996! Contact: r.riepen @ sansylgroup.com \| skype:roaldr \| icq: