Human Beings in General...

[Barefootsies]

Do you believe, that by nature, human beings are good and that it's society and circumstance that corrupts them? Or do you believe that humans are wicked and opportunistic by default and that it's the "degrees" are all that separate them?

Discuss.

[PR_Glen]

We are all good for the most part. Even people who have done truly evil things have gone most of there lives doing good things for people in one way or another.

Pure evil doesn't exist, although neither does pure good.

[JamesGw]

Originally Posted by PR_Glen

We are all good for the most part. Even people who have done truly evil things have gone most of there lives doing good things for people in one way or another.

Pure evil doesn't exist, although neither does pure good.

I actually do agree with this. Some people are twisted, but I can't really think of any who were absolutely evil.

[martinsc]

Originally Posted by PR_Glen

We are all good for the most part. Even people who have done truly evil things have gone most of there lives doing good things for people in one way or another.

Pure evil doesn't exist, although neither does pure good.

some names that pop into my head are Hitler, Mao Tse Tung, Stalin and Caligula....

[Loch]

I do actually believe that pure evil by societies standard does exist, though extremely rare.
Few examples would be the very very few psychotic kids as young as 5-7 years old that commit murder and end up repeating years and years later.

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by PR_Glen

We are all good for the most part. Even people who have done truly evil things have gone most of there lives doing good things for people in one way or another.

Pure evil doesn't exist, although neither does pure good.

So then, you are saying humans are corrupted by circumstance?

For example, there are women all of us know who if you asked them while the times were good to toss your salad, they would tell you to go fuck yourself. However, if the chips were down.... it is only a matter of dollars and the circumstances and many (not all) would do it?

Or another example from GFY experience would be, 4-5 years ago everyone on the forum was against the tube, theft, copyright, blah blah blah, as long as they were making money at the time (via standard methods) and life was good. Once conversions were in the shitter, and the industry changed, they then joined the tube dark side bandwagon to try and remain some sort of profitability.

While these are just random examples, there are plenty more.

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by martinsc

some names that pop into my head are Hitler, Mao Tse Tung, Stalin and Caligula....

Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

[seeandsee]

i dont, too much animal instincts in our dnk

[Captain Kawaii]

Originally Posted by martinsc

some names that pop into my head are Hitler, Mao Tse Tung, Stalin and Caligula....

Cheney, Kissinger, Cristiani...theres quite a list if you pause and think for a few...

There were some studies done years ago that showed even babies have a tendency for evil...i think genetics have a way to go yet, though currently humans appear to be devolving into lesser forms. Look at bankers and oil execs for example.

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by Loch

Few examples would be the very very few psychotic kids as young as 5-7 years old that commit murder and end up repeating years and years later.

You mean like the Muslim children who became suicide bombers?

Oro the Vietnamese back in the war who would walk up to soldiers with grenades?

[femdomdestiny]

well,I am typing this from m phone while waiting gf to buy some stuff.and it was exactly what I was thinking until I parked here,how people are actually bad and that I wish them all worst things acctually.Few days ago I've searched for explanation about my mental condition and it is called:misantrophy.maybe some of of you guys will also reckognize in this.but,this is not without reason,actually whereever I go or whatever I do,I see bad things people are doing.in traffic,in store,in comunication.everywhere all the time,there are so much proofs.mostly,people are lying all the fucking time....why in this moment this idiot that parked in front of me is still keeping his lights on,so I can't see shit?If I tell him,there is a big chance that he will respond something bad,so I will react and attack him,which will end in injury or I will be arrested where dirty cops will then show their dose of evil,by beating me...you see,shit,even when I sit and not having contact with anybody.

[Diomed]

Discuss.

Hmm, fuck off?

[mavruda]

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Do you believe, that by nature, human beings are good and that it's society and circumstance that corrupts them? Or do you believe that humans are wicked and opportunistic by default and that it's the "degrees" are all that separate them?

Discuss.

No one is good or evil only by nature - we all have both of them. Opportunity is the option that the guys with fast thoughts uses and thus we have the difference between rich and poor. Then comes the courage - that helps the brave to steal from these who has it, so they can have too. Then we have smart ones, who are clever enough to create operation systems and to sell the majority and thus to get rich. And then there goes the people who sees the weakness of the people who looks for easy access to most of the things - for example - easy and safe sex, without being declined or discarded - and then comes the porn. Most of you make your money from the weakness and dark desires of the people. At first I thought that no one would pay someone to draw him a chick with big boobs, but then I was surprised.

In short we have avalanche effect - like the bar fights in movies - someone hits another guy by mistake or by purpose and then everybody starts to fight - we're born for destruction.

[Caligari]

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

You mean like the Muslim children who became suicide bombers?

Oro the Vietnamese back in the war who would walk up to soldiers with grenades?

you mean as opposed to the sanity of napalming thousands of civilians in their own country?

reminds me a scene in a movie i don't recall the name of right now...

"Don't you have any faith in humanity left in you?"

"None whatsoever ma'am."

[BlackCrayon]

The universe is hostile. so Impersonal. devour to survive. So it is. So it's always been.

[MetaMan]

Good or evil does not exist. The thought of good or evil is an excuse for human beings to try to explain their own lackluster existence. As if what they do on a cosmic scale somehow matters. It is invented by the mind to convince itself that we matter. the more we think what we do matters the more we are willing to do whatever it takes to survive.

its natures trick on the mind and does not exist anywhere and has never existed.

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by femdomdestiny

well,I am typing this from m phone while waiting gf to buy some stuff.and it was exactly what I was thinking until I parked here,how people are actually bad and that I wish them all worst things acctually.Few days ago I've searched for explanation about my mental condition and it is called:misantrophy.maybe some of of you guys will also reckognize in this.but,this is not without reason,actually whereever I go or whatever I do,I see bad things people are doing.in traffic,in store,in comunication.everywhere all the time,there are so much proofs.mostly,people are lying all the fucking time....why in this moment this idiot that parked in front of me is still keeping his lights on,so I can't see shit?If I tell him,there is a big chance that he will respond something bad,so I will react and attack him,which will end in injury or I will be arrested where dirty cops will then show their dose of evil,by beating me...you see,shit,even when I sit and not having contact with anybody.

In regards to you post and examples, I think it's a issue of degrees of separation.

I am sure that many have been so pissed off they wished someone dead, or threatened someone, or wished bad on them. However, what keeps most from acting on them is not good or evil. It is an appreciation, or fear, of the consequences.

However, if there were no consequences, you would have a different ballgame.

[PR_Glen]

Originally Posted by martinsc

some names that pop into my head are Hitler, Mao Tse Tung, Stalin and Caligula....

We have a distorted view of their entire lives because the evils they have done overshadow any good they may have done in their lives--Rightly so of course.

You can throw in any serial killer into that argument as well, but every one of them had done plenty of good in their lives before they did any of the terrible things. The reason for that is debatable though, most seem to have had violence around them in their youth of some sort.

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

So then, you are saying humans are corrupted by circumstance?

For example, there are women all of us know who if you asked them while the times were good to toss your salad, they would tell you to go fuck yourself. However, if the chips were down.... it is only a matter of dollars and the circumstances and many (not all) would do it?

Or another example from GFY experience would be, 4-5 years ago everyone on the forum was against the tube, theft, copyright, blah blah blah, as long as they were making money at the time (via standard methods) and life was good. Once conversions were in the shitter, and the industry changed, they then joined the tube dark side bandwagon to try and remain some sort of profitability.

While these are just random examples, there are plenty more.

I would say exactly that, we are definitely corrupted from circumstances. None of us here are murderers, but if someone broke into your home and attacked you and your family and put you in a life/death situation would you not kill to protect them? (this example is rare obviously but i think it is relevant)

I think we can all agree that almost all violent criminals have had some sort of violence done to them while growing up.


People have been creating 'monsters' since the beginning of time. The devil is needed to justify why bad things happen in most religions. Basically it is too hard for people to accept that these 'evil doers' are human as the rest of us, they have just done and are capable of doing more evil acts than the rest of us.

[sperbonzo]

Basically the standards of good and evil do not exist as a basic part of the human mind. In the beginning, as babies, humans are utterly self centered. They do whatever it takes to satisfy their own needs and wants. Any action which results in them getting what they need or want successfully is "moral" to a small child. If this behavior is never amended in any way by outside influences, i.e. parents and society, then the behavior will never change and the child will forever do whatever it can do to successfully satisfy itself. Parents and society, in an effort to work together in a more co-operative way, for mutual benefit, change a child's behavior by making the satisfying of wants and needs be based upon a set of rules and codes. The child learns that only by following these rules and codes, (everything from politeness to restraining their desire to assault someone to take what they want), will be rewarded by getting the child what it craves, including emotional satisfaction, and that NOT following these guidelines will result in the child NOT getting what it wants.

Thus it is parents and society that "civilize" a child and make it "moral", according to the guiding principles of that society. If you raise a child in a society where murder and cannibalizm somehow worked on a long-term basis as a way for that society to keep working, where these behaviors actually were lauded, admired and rewarded, then the child would grow to think that this was "moral" behavior. The reason why these types of behaviors have never become part of "civilization" is simply due to the fact that they don't work for long-term success in a social community.



In short, there is no "better nature", inherent in people, it is instilled in us by various clues, sometimes very subtle, in the society around us.





.

[Scott McD]

Humans ? All i know is everyone on Facebook is a cunt !!

[Loch]

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

You mean like the Muslim children who became suicide bombers?

Oro the Vietnamese back in the war who would walk up to soldiers with grenades?

No, those i do consider casualties of war however tragic it may be.
But there has been a few incidences in Brittan & the US where children commit murder in gruesome ways out of the blue after killing dogs / Cats etc. People like that i would consider evil to the core.

[CaptainHowdy]

Few of us can handle The Good ...

[Scott McD]

This shocked the UK years ago:





Jon Venables and Robert Thompson, both aged 10.

For reasons which have never been explained to this day, the two friends took James and led him from The Strand and away, eventually, to his death.



Late the next day, Saturday, his body was found by the railway line at Walton, a couple of miles from the shopping centre. He had been beaten, struck with a battery and bricks and left for dead.


Two evil bastards from the day they were born...

[femdomdestiny]

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

In regards to you post and examples, I think it's a issue of degrees of separation.

I am sure that many have been so pissed off they wished someone dead, or threatened someone, or wished bad on them. However, what keeps most from acting on them is not good or evil. It is an appreciation, or fear, of the consequences.

However, if there were no consequences, you would have a different ballgame.

Now I am back home. During short trip, I 've got in small verbal conflict with cab driver that was shouting something to me probably because I've came in front of him,even if it was my street and he had to wait because he was getting in main street.(sorry, my english is not good enough so I can use proper expressions) So ,he was evil, regarding my opinion, wanted something that don't belong to him. Ok, I've told him to suck cock because he is fat as pig, but, only few hundred meter later, 4 lanes, green light for me, no place for pedestrians to walk,and some guy started running in front of me. I had to push break, and I 've started pushing horn when I saw him coming and running....and what happened next? Guy started shouting at me. ...I am driving convertible so I've heard him very well. I've slowed down and gave him few bad words, but he started runnning for me to fight. As I was already nervous enough , this just came as I 've expected in my previous post (when I was sitting in car and typing), so instinctively, I've found nearest spot to leave car (15 meters from scene)and I've parked there and leaved engine running (I was sober enough to have escape plan in case of serious mess, so I even parked in that way that I can resume driving without making any manouvers). So..guys is still running toward me, and taking his shirt off (yeah, just like in those youtube street fight videos). In these short moments he threw his t-shirt on my trunk when I've pushed him back from car. So, I've runned out of car toward him but suddenly he started moving back. I guess he wasn't expecting my reaction and thought that I was leaving in moment when I was looking to place to stop car....I saw that he was hesitating to attack when I saw fear or something strange in his eyes, so while I was going toward him .I've asked. Are you drunk idiot? He said: Yeah....so I've just slapped him on hands to pull them off and told him that he will run into someone that won't give a shit is he drunk or is he lying that he was drinking. ...total confusion, guy started telling: thank you, you are fair !? Wtf....I guess that people on bus station that were near were disapointed at the end....but , when I came to my home and parked, guess what I've found on my trunk? His t-shirt...actually, I've drove away with his tshirt that he throw when was preparing to fight So embarassing, he had to go home half naked Only he know will he be able to explain to his wife or GF why he came home without shirt ...anyway, my conclusion...yes, just 30 minutes outside and you will get into shit because people are stupid, bad,or whatever and I am seeing this every single day ,all the time.

[lyno]

We still are cave dwellers, masked by a thin layer of civilization and armed with nukes.

[spazlabz]

a poll would have done well here

People are basically good. No need to expand on that any

[signupdamnit]

"Good, versus evil! The stand to vanquish evil!
Man can only live one way, that place right in the middle"

- Anthrax, Among the living

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by martinsc

some names that pop into my head are Hitler, Mao Tse Tung, Stalin and Caligula....

but they all loved DOGS!!!!

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by MetaMan

Good or evil does not exist. The thought of good or evil is an excuse for human beings to try to explain their own lackluster existence. As if what they do on a cosmic scale somehow matters. It is invented by the mind to convince itself that we matter. the more we think what we do matters the more we are willing to do whatever it takes to survive.

its natures trick on the mind and does not exist anywhere and has never existed.

yes good and evil are 'judgment calls' based on some ones morality..

[LC777_BCM]

Everyone's definitions of good & evil are different...depends on who you think defined good & evil.

[MetaMan]

Originally Posted by bm bradley

yes good and evil are 'judgment calls' based on some ones morality..

i dont necessarily agree because a "judgement call" is a choice. I bet you most people would consider themselves "good". but still go against their own morality.

morality is your own personal perception of something.

Everyone has a different personal perception thus good and evil does not exist. It is your mind convincing you it exists. Just because you are made to believe it exists. Does not mean it does.

[bigluv]

Everyone is the hero in their own story from their point of view.

[JamesGw]

Originally Posted by Scott McD

This shocked the UK years ago:





Jon Venables and Robert Thompson, both aged 10.

For reasons which have never been explained to this day, the two friends took James and led him from The Strand and away, eventually, to his death.



Late the next day, Saturday, his body was found by the railway line at Walton, a couple of miles from the shopping centre. He had been beaten, struck with a battery and bricks and left for dead.


Two evil bastards from the day they were born...

Never heard of that before. Fucked up shit.

[Dvae]

Originally Posted by PR_Glen

We are all good for the most part. Even people who have done truly evil things have gone most of there lives doing good things for people in one way or another.

Pure evil doesn't exist, although neither does pure good.

I disagree especially on the pure evil side.
For example Hitler or Stalin who were each responsible for tens of millions of deaths.
On a smaller scale serial killers come to mind. Jeffrey Dahmer, Charles Manson etc.

[ottopottomouse]

Lord of the Flies.

[campimp]

i think its circumstance. put a murdering hood rat into a rich neighborhood from birth and chances are he/she would instead turn out to be a college grad working behind a desk all day long.

if a kid is raised in a normal nurturing home chances are they will not become a child molestor... put that same kid in a home where he is molested and abused as a kid, and chances are he will repeat the cycle when he becomes an adult