The future of this biz

[Anna_O]

Between all the dranathreads, why not have a serious discussion on this board for a change?

Will the standard paysites as we know them be gone within a few years? The surfers get more and more educated every day, it's much harder to to sell porn today than just one year ago... You can get all free porn tou want from programs like Kazaa etc. Look what Kazaa did to the music industry.

We feel that the big generic paysites with a shitty members area is soon to die off. More personal sites with niched exclusive content seems to be the future. But will this be enough?

Why isn't anyone doing more quality sites for the half of the worlds population known as "women"? Lots of women like to watch porn, but all sites we've seen are real shitty.

What about the new cellphone technology - 3g? Does it have the potential to become the next big thing?

And finally VISA... Perhaps the biggest threat against our industry?


OK, there are some subjects to discuss, hopefully some of you big players will contribute with some insightful thoughts on them... Going to bed now, happy Valentines day!

[Mikey_219Inc]

adaptation and survival of the fittest ... kazaa didnt do shit to music industry those fat cigar smoking assholes are filthy rich ... the musicians, most of em, dont care about file sharing.

i think free porn will become more regulated and there will come a time when people have to whip out their cc's or, prove their age in order to see anything other than teaser shit. good news for some. bad news for others.

kazaa ... fuck if you know what youre doing use it as free advertising.

as for the phone shit and porn for women, i have no idea ... i think as far as paysites, offer a good product now and good advertising and thats basically how it works in brick and mortar.

either way, lots of people are gonna make $ and lots of people are gonna lose their ass.

[JensMoviePost]

No worries - I already gave up on paysites and don't promote them.

[Matt M]

I think the key is adaptation. This industry has always been dynamic. The ones that were either to stubborn, or unable to adapt got left behind, and disappeared. I am sure we will also see more this year fall off the radar. For each action there is a reaction, and when old goes away there is new to take its place. You have to be able to anticipate, and roll with the punches to survive in any industry, but even more so in this one. So I think things will change just like they have continuously in the past. This industry has seen a lot of change in the last 5 years, and will continue to see changes in the future. Don't fear the change. Instead focus on how to capitalize on the changes that are sure to come.

[paul1000]

Originally posted by Mikey_219Inc
kazaa didnt do shit to music industry ... (snip)

Think again ... pre-CDR and gnutella(kazaa et al.) days, I can remember paying $30-50 for a great front row seat at almost any concert ...

Now that same $30-$50 might pay for your parking at a concert.

Artists have seen HUGE losses in record sales, so most have beefed up their fees for live performances over 250%, in turn raising the price of concert tickets, to try to subsidize for the loss of revenues(but still feeling the crunch). (very similar to this biz ... pre 1998 we all made money very easily ... now we work three times as hard to make half as much)

I am involved quite heavily in the recording industry, and have represented several big recording artists in my mainstream endeavours, so I am not just blowing smoke up everybody's ass.

nice thread

[JensMoviePost]

Do you still buy Cd's when you can download every track and burn it onto a CD for almost nothing?

Seriously I know its wrong but I have not purchased a CD in about 2 years.

[Paul Markham]

Free porn will never be the threat to this industry that it was to the music industry, people dont't sit and jerk off together and don't normally share porn pictures. When was the last time you went to a friends house and they put on a porn movie for you all to watch?

The paysite market will get more sophisticated, the surfer is a moving market and circulating porn sites, his expectations rise when he's buying anything. Sites that do not respect him are gone.

The big thing in my opinion will be the entry into the market by the big video boys at the moment they are anti this market, soon they will realise that porn shops are emptying becasue we changed the way buyers purchase porn. They come into the market a lot of the video sites will be in trouble, unable to compete with the "Evil Angels" and "Privates" of the porn video world. Especially as speed and technology improve.

Porn on the Internet for woman will never happen, woman close their eyes to masturbate, men like visual stimulation. Those that like porn watch it with a partner, too few watch it on their own and they are not into POV level porn. They need big productions with lots of fantasy, expensive to produce and low returns no the sales side.

But basically I'm shooting the same I shot 25 years ago, the difference is the style and the delivery method.

[Maximillion]

Originally posted by paul1000


Think again ... pre-CDR and gnutella(kazaa et al.) days, I can remember paying $30-50 for a great front row seat at almost any concert ...

Now that same $30-$50 might pay for your parking at a concert.

Artists have seen HUGE losses in record sales, so most have beefed up their fees for live performances over 250%, in turn raising the price of concert tickets, to try to subsidize for the loss of revenues(but still feeling the crunch). (very similar to this biz ... pre 1998 we all made money very easily ... now we work three times as hard to make half as much)

I am involved quite heavily in the recording industry, and have represented several big recording artists in my mainstream endeavours, so I am not just blowing smoke up everybody's ass.

interesting.

[kkading15]

Originally posted by paul1000


Think again ... pre-CDR and gnutella(kazaa et al.) days, I can remember paying $30-50 for a great front row seat at almost any concert ...

Now that same $30-$50 might pay for your parking at a concert.

Artists have seen HUGE losses in record sales, so most have beefed up their fees for live performances over 250%, in turn raising the price of concert tickets, to try to subsidize for the loss of revenues(but still feeling the crunch). (very similar to this biz ... pre 1998 we all made money very easily ... now we work three times as hard to make half as much)

I am involved quite heavily in the recording industry, and have represented several big recording artists in my mainstream endeavours, so I am not just blowing smoke up everybody's ass.

I will remember that the next time i am watching mtv cribs

[Mikey_219Inc]

Originally posted by paul1000


Think again ... pre-CDR and gnutella(kazaa et al.) days, I can remember paying $30-50 for a great front row seat at almost any concert ...

Now that same $30-$50 might pay for your parking at a concert.

Artists have seen HUGE losses in record sales, so most have beefed up their fees for live performances over 250%, in turn raising the price of concert tickets, to try to subsidize for the loss of revenues(but still feeling the crunch). (very similar to this biz ... pre 1998 we all made money very easily ... now we work three times as hard to make half as much)

I am involved quite heavily in the recording industry, and have represented several big recording artists in my mainstream endeavours, so I am not just blowing smoke up everybody's ass.

well the artists are the bottom of the food chain in the music industry ... the "industry" may have seen losses in CD sales. its the musicians who will suffer, they sign up for some shit contract because the companies are slimeballs, and unless they put out an "appetite for destruction" they spend the rest of their lives just making enough to buy smack and making the companies richer. i still buy CD's ... my brother burned some system of a down and i liked it so i went out and got every CD ... file sharing has opened up music that i would have never heard b4 and i like that. just like webmasters have to smarten up, and the fittest will survive, so will it go with the music industry. file sharing is not going anywhere. dumb junkies will die poor or quit, real musicians will carry on and adapt. Damn does it really take that much brains to figure out how to milk file sharing for free advertising? People used to (hell they probably still are) break arms to get records played ... i remember the bitching when double tape decks came out.

[infecto]

Originally posted by paul1000


Think again ... pre-CDR and gnutella(kazaa et al.) days, I can remember paying $30-50 for a great front row seat at almost any concert ...

Now that same $30-$50 might pay for your parking at a concert.

Artists have seen HUGE losses in record sales, so most have beefed up their fees for live performances over 250%, in turn raising the price of concert tickets, to try to subsidize for the loss of revenues(but still feeling the crunch). (very similar to this biz ... pre 1998 we all made money very easily ... now we work three times as hard to make half as much)

I am involved quite heavily in the recording industry, and have represented several big recording artists in my mainstream endeavours, so I am not just blowing smoke up everybody's ass.

Thats called artisits getting greedy. They only make so many cents on each album sold while yes its not just a bit of change in the end if its a sucessful artist its hardly what they make through live shows. Thats where there money has always been in live shows. Records are just a means of advertising that they get paid for.

[lock]

[i] for the half of the worlds population known as "women"? Lots of women like to watch porn, but all sites we've seen are real shitty.

[/B]

we be working on something
http://www.hetrowomen.com
http://www.heterowomen.com

[Ash@phpFX]

interesting points. i think paysites with character and a personal touch will dominate the market into the future, and i do think there is a largely untapped market for womens porn, i actually wouldnt mind partnering with a woman to sell it, i dont think i could do it with any sucess on my own though. for the phones, 3 (the company) already sells porn (like playboy etc) to subscribers, so i dont know how big that will get, we will have to wait and see, although i think it will be more of a novelty than a serious thing because the screens are too small and the place most people would want to watch porn is in the privacy of their own home, not while they are catching the bus.

[Anna_O]

Lots of interestiong points, keep 'em comming

"Porn on the Internet for woman will never happen, woman close their eyes to masturbate, men like visual stimulation. Those that like porn watch it with a partner, too few watch it on their own and they are not into POV level porn. They need big productions with lots of fantasy, expensive to produce and low returns no the sales side."

Don't agree with this. The new generation of women have grown up with porn in a different way. Know lots of girls who like to watch a porno on their own now and then. But I agree that the quality has to be high though...

[KRL]

The future is unknown. There are too many factors beyond anyone's control that will continuously change the dynamics of online adult commerce.

[Anna_O]

Originally posted by KRL
The future is unknown. There are too many factors beyond anyone's control that will continuously change the dynamics of online adult commerce.

Ofcourse the future is unknown, that's why it's fun to discuss different outcomes

[polish_aristocrat]

Originally posted by infecto


Thats where there money has always been in live shows. Records are just a means of advertising that they get paid for.

I always thought the opposite

[KRL]

Originally posted by Anna_O


Ofcourse the future is unknown, that's why it's fun to discuss different outcomes

Just figure the way to create your own future with as many controllable elements as possible. That's the key.

[txtbill]

I think what Mikey_219Inc said about using Kazaa as a free advertising tool is so correct, its a numbers game for the number of people that will be happy with a shitty cut down version of some movie there will be others that will go find out what the full version is like.

As for 3G I personally belive that wireless porn will be the future of this industry, we are seeing lots of changes of here in Europe it just the masses of US webmasters still are not aware or are stuck in their ways.

As for Visa, well yes a real problem and I think the way to get around this is to use alternative payment methods like SMS Billing.

This also gets round the problem of users become more aware of what they are buying and what they want from a site. It is possible now to create a fully open site that allows users to browse all content and purcahse select photosets or videos. In a term it is pay-as-you-go porn. I also think that this will raise the stakes as it will force paysite to produce better content due to the open nature of the site. Hopefully this will get rid of the countless numbers of poor paysites.

[Anna_O]

I think 3G is going to get a big alternative to regular webcam-shows...

Wonder why no paysite owners are replying in this thread? Had atleast expected some to spam their sites saying they're the next big thing...

[txtbill]

lol I have no idea, probably because they're all asleep!

We are working on a webcam to mobile phone solution, so watch this space at least!

[Anna_O]

txtbill, give a shout on the board when you have something to show. We are very interested in this and have a few good (?) domains for it

[besterman]

generally people will pay for the convenience of seeing exclusive content not available anywhere else, whether a single model or a variety site. Even the cheapest surfer, after a while, will come to the conclusion that to get what they like best, eventually they have to get the credit card out...

[Anna_O]

Originally posted by scorpion3600
generally people will pay for the convenience of seeing exclusive content not available anywhere else, whether a single model or a variety site. Even the cheapest surfer, after a while, will come to the conclusion that to get what they like best, eventually they have to get the credit card out...

Most people that I know surf porn alot, but they say they would NEVER pay for it. They simply not trust adultsites with their card. What can be done about this?

[phogirl69]

Why do men think that women "close their eyes when they masturbate" and need porn with "big productions" and storylines, and only "watch porn with a partner" Perhaps I'm an exception, but I cannot stand Vivid type movies, I like all my porn ROUGH, like Anabolic type movies, 2 guys on 1 girl, lots of anal, NO FUCKEN STORYLINES, NO LAME COSTUMES. It seems a lot of you guys just like to "think" women like "soft" "romantic" porn, but you are so wrong. I admit, I have actually have paid for videos A LOT and stuff, and I always watch it alone, and a lot, almost every day or every other day. I don't need "special porn" just made for me, I like the ones that are out there already, and I prefer it rough, no romantic kissing and romance bullshit.

And it's not just me either, a lot of my friends (who claim they are conservative and even one who "claims" she is Catholic even though she dresses more provocative than most pornstars) like "rougher" movies too even with double penetration and all. But we are all in our mid 20's to early 30's though.
We don't like "softcore" crap!!

Whenever I see something that looks too "romantic" and mushy costume crap with just regular intercourse, I just forward it, I don't want to look at it! I actually like the degrading porn as well where the guy is being rough and calling the female "a whore" and spewing all over her face... Men who think women like "soft" porn have it sooooo wrong.

We are not all "frail delicate maidens" who want to make love on a bed of roses or anything. If you think women don't like hard porn, you have a lot to learn about women! Most likely the women you were with lied to you! I have lied to tons of men when I was younger about watching porn, and I would NEVER admit to masturbating. But I know the TRUTH, and I bet lots of women lie about liking rough porn as well, because we don't want to be perceived as "easy"

[icedemon]

Originally posted by Matt M
I think the key is adaptation. This industry has always been dynamic. The ones that were either to stubborn, or unable to adapt got left behind, and disappeared. I am sure we will also see more this year fall off the radar. For each action there is a reaction, and when old goes away there is new to take its place. You have to be able to anticipate, and roll with the punches to survive in any industry, but even more so in this one. So I think things will change just like they have continuously in the past. This industry has seen a lot of change in the last 5 years, and will continue to see changes in the future. Don't fear the change. Instead focus on how to capitalize on the changes that are sure to come.

What he said

[Anna_O]

Thanks phogirl69, well said

There are men that like different types of porn, as well as women. Personally I don't like watching men very much, I prefer lesbian hardcore films. It doesn't hurt if there is some domination in it too I also can't stand ugly actors. It's such a turnoff! I want to see hot and sexy people, not white trash junkies.

BUT that's MY taste. Everybody is different. If someone did a lesbian hardcore site with exclusive content - AND the girls filmed actually looked liked they enjoyed the sex - I would sign up and promote the hell out of it...

[Trent Edison]

NO FATE BUT WHAT WE MAKE

[Roger]

Originally posted by paul1000
Artists have seen HUGE losses in record sales, so most have beefed up their fees for live performances over 250%, in turn raising the price of concert tickets, to try to subsidize for the loss of revenues(but still feeling the crunch). (very similar to this biz ... pre 1998 we all made money very easily ... now we work three times as hard to make half as much)

Have you been to Asia? Land of everything is pirated? I wonder how so many artists still manage to strike it rich in there.

[SomeCreep]

The future is more and more free porn for the surfer.

[Theo]

Originally posted by Anna_O

And finally VISA... Perhaps the biggest threat against our industry?

We are our own worst enemies. Near every single of us would sacrifice the future of the industry in order to reach personal goals/wealth.

Originally posted by Mikey_219Inc
adaptation and survival of the fittest ...

yes

[mryellow]

I have bought countless CDs after downloading MP3's of artists I
have never and would never have heard of if it wasn't for file
sharing. File sharing has done nothing to the recording industry.
They don't understand it and want it stopped so they'll come up
with all kinds of figures to prove it's bad. Fact is they haven't lost
anything like what they'd have you believe. All they have lost is
total control over the industries market. Now we're getting so
much better music then the crap they were force feeding us 5-7
years ago.

in turn raising the price of concert tickets

Tours don't make money, if you've ever organised a public event
like a festival or whatever then you'll know the costs that go into
these things. Tours make CD sales they are promotion not
revenue raising. I'd say any 250% increase is probably to cover
higher insurance costs.

File sharing is the best thing to happen to "music" in the last 300
years, since Mozart first setup the well tempered keyboard and
allowed us to share written music with each other across the
world.

-Ben

[BlueFly]

Supply and demand. No matter what happens with visa, or file sharing or anything else, there remains a large demand for porn. Short of castrating every male on the planet, this will never change. Auto-rebills may go out the window, but that isn't going to change the demand... just dry up the supply. That means higher prices. Instead of paying 19.95 a month, the surfer will have to shell out 99.95 for a 6 month membership. If he doesn't want to do that, tough shit! That is the cheapest thing out there.

As far as free porn goes, it can't exist without paysites to rip it from. If people stop buying memberships, no more free porn. As it is now, there are plenty of ass holes with their dick in one hand and a credit card in the other.

This industry will no doubt change in the next few years, but it isn't going anywhere.

[Anna_O]

Originally posted by Soul_Rebel

We are our own worst enemies. Near every single of us would sacrifice the future of the industry in order to reach personal goals/wealth.

Yes, too many scammers and people with short-term goals in this biz.

[Babagirls]

the future of the porn biz is goin to evenautally slow down. you can only have so many niches, naked pics, etc. I think video and ONLY video sites are gonna float well in the next 5 years.

my

[SykkBoy]

With some exeptions, most of the income in this business is people forgetting to cancel their memberships...the loss of recur billing will hurt this business more than nearly any government regulation, VISA demands, poltician, etc.

If the day comes that recur billing for adult products goes bye-bye, it'll shift the tides for sure. It will also, as mentioned previously, lead to higher membership fees. Think about it...in addition to giving away a lot of free porn in this industry by TGP/MGP's, membership sites are charging $30-40 per month for an entire video store worth of porn...think of how much it costs just to rent a couple porn videos per week....compared to what the average pornsite membership costs.

I also see a lot more "porn communities" popping up...sites like anywebcam.com for people to chat, swap pics, have webcam cyber sex, etc. Sites that are basically a framework for people to join and these members "build" the site and are the content (not necessarily in the "porn content" way).

I see a lot more adult portal type membership sites popping up...example: jerkoff joe can come in and get his jerk on but also grab some sports scores, reserve that sex holiday vacation, check out the webcam of his neighbor as she sucks off her husband on cam, grabs some stock quotes after tossing the used kleenex in the garbage, etc. I think the dating sites could become one of these communities..instead of just putting a shitload of profiles up, they can offer more "stuff".

The live webcam sites and single girl sites have always done well and should continue to do well.

It'll be interesting for sure....

[Anna_O]

Originally posted by SykkBoy2


I see a lot more adult portal type membership sites popping up...example: jerkoff joe can come in and get his jerk on but also grab some sports scores, reserve that sex holiday vacation, check out the webcam of his neighbor as she sucks off her husband on cam, grabs some stock quotes after tossing the used kleenex in the garbage, etc. I think the dating sites could become one of these communities..instead of just putting a shitload of profiles up, they can offer more "stuff".

Very interesting thoughts...

[Greg B]

In order to estimate the future of this industry you have to look at who's in this industry and whom the customers are.

Because of online porn people bought computers. They didn't buy computers for the love of AOL and happy-camper shit. They bought computers for PORN!

Anything else they say is bullshit.

Because of online porn new software, business solutions, hardware had to be created and upgraded at lightning pace.

Security procedures to handle various problems also.

PORN rules the web and don't let anyone tell you otherwise, yet porn is porn's worst enemy. You can't run an industry like you run Hollywood or comic books. You can give a computer to a gorilla, a chimp or a child and all three will do what their nature calls for.

This industry will collapse however from the frustration of surfer customers who will finally be enraged at all the CJs and bs business procedures. It's about to come to a head. Once an industry gets as bad a rep as this one for out and out dumb ass shit it's bound to turn into a sinkhole where all the glitz and big names in the world won't help.

If you don't knock off the rip offs and what not, one of these days the other pornmeisters are gonna track ya down. not to mention a bunch of angry customers.

It's high time for a consolidation of ethical procedures and get that info out to the public that they can trust that group. Everyone else will just fall off.

[Aza]

Originally posted by BlueFly
Supply and demand. No matter what happens with visa, or file sharing or anything else, there remains a large demand for porn. Short of castrating every male on the planet, this will never change. Auto-rebills may go out the window, but that isn't going to change the demand... just dry up the supply. That means higher prices. Instead of paying 19.95 a month, the surfer will have to shell out 99.95 for a 6 month membership. If he doesn't want to do that, tough shit! That is the cheapest thing out there.

As far as free porn goes, it can't exist without paysites to rip it from. If people stop buying memberships, no more free porn. As it is now, there are plenty of ass holes with their dick in one hand and a credit card in the other.

This industry will no doubt change in the next few years, but it isn't going anywhere.

i agree with this view point

great thread btw

[DamianJ]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Free porn will never be the threat to this industry that it was to the music industry

[ilnjscb]

The future of this business won't happen until people who partner with stars are not called "captain save a ho" and the true stars are not ridiculed as "hos" and "bitches". Surfers don't give a fuck about the men, they are here to see the women. What they really want is to know, biblically and mentally, the beautiful women who fuck a lot and fuck anyone and enjoy it.

The douchebags who populate this business, the bullies and the narcissists, everyone hates. They put up with them because their antisocial behavior allowed them to inhabit the dirty world of porn. Now porn is mainstream. Scumbags are running for cover to find some other cockroach hole.

The assholes are the dinosaurs. Face it, the 85 IQ time is over. The women are going straight to the user and they are doing great. Members are signing up and watching their shows and chatting with them.

There will always be a fascination with women who break the moral code, who give themselves. The piece-of-shit middlemen? Not so much. If surfers wanted that they could visit a prison.

After the dumb luck phase of discovery and exploitation, real business comes in and employs development. Realize what your assets are. Understand your 1 in 10,000 resource.

[woj]

interesting thread

[BFT3K]

The solution is obvious...

[harvey]

Originally Posted by DamianJ

gotta admit I laughed, but do you really spend your time looking for PM threads to make fun of him?

Originally Posted by ilnjscb

The future of this business won't happen until people who partner with stars are not called "captain save a ho" and the true stars are not ridiculed as "hos" and "bitches". Surfers don't give a fuck about the men, they are here to see the women. What they really want is to know, biblically and mentally, the beautiful women who fuck a lot and fuck anyone and enjoy it.

The douchebags who populate this business, the bullies and the narcissists, everyone hates. They put up with them because their antisocial behavior allowed them to inhabit the dirty world of porn. Now porn is mainstream. Scumbags are running for cover to find some other cockroach hole.

The assholes are the dinosaurs. Face it, the 85 IQ time is over. The women are going straight to the user and they are doing great. Members are signing up and watching their shows and chatting with them.

There will always be a fascination with women who break the moral code, who give themselves. The piece-of-shit middlemen? Not so much. If surfers wanted that they could visit a prison.

After the dumb luck phase of discovery and exploitation, real business comes in and employs development. Realize what your assets are. Understand your 1 in 10,000 resource.

100% agreed

[charlie g]

nice bump actually...














.

[SomeCreep]

[Rochard]

The industry isn't doomed, it's changed. We were enjoying great ratios because it was new, exciting, and there wasn't much else to do on the Internet. All of that has changed with Facebook, Youtube, and Myspace sucking in 60% of all Internet traffic. We also fucked ourselves by building crappy paysites with crappy content, putting the good stuff on the tour and filling up the member's areas with "crap" - the classic bait and switch.

Now the truth is the easy money is gone. Let's see who sticks around and stays.

[AmeliaG]

I wanted to buy the Anna sites, but the asking price felt inflated to me. I'm guessing the person who bought it didn't have the best business plan, given that they are all dead now Such a waste. There was some nice traffic stuff in there.

[DukeSkywalker]

Originally Posted by DamianJ

markham with his wisdom lulz
ds