Democrats love the unions. The unions fund the elections for the democrats who in turn give the unions more power and money to build more unions in as many businesses as they can. Nothing but parasites.

As an American, you're correct... I have no experience in Canadian unions.

But thinking I don't have experience in unions, would be a major mistake on your part.

What about the "equal amount of unions" that give to Republicans? Or the ones that don't do it at all, or the ones that allow each person to make the choice, or groups to donation to any cause, political or not.... which is how most work.

Here, I fixed this for you...

Republicans love the big corporations. Their lobbyists fund the elections for the Republicans who in turn give the ultra-wealthy more power and money to benefit the CEOs and top 2% in as many businesses as they can. Nothing but parasites.

Not if they weren't an employee...

Never said a doctor working without pay, rather a doctor working without his lic.

So rather than your father saying don't come in today, when the husband said no work, your father forced them to work? And you question why you have a union....

That's not being nice, that's called being a dick.

Oh, so the union solved your unsafe conditions for the people at the home, WHEN something happens... sweet.

Yes,they do. It's part of being a producer. How many jobs does a union create?


I can drive the local area now and take pictures of over 10million sq feet of empty manufacturing plants that closed because they lost their competitive edge against Asian labor. The unions didn't know when to back off. Now they are gone.

Hahaha... so the non-union corps should be rocking it then.

Unions or not, we can't complete with $3 a month wages.

I did. We hired 40 new employees last year. We invested over $5m in new equipment in the last 36 months and are putting on another 60k sq ft to our main plant. When it's finished we will add another 50+ jobs. With health,dental,life and 401k. We had a couple of guys try to start a union a few years ago. They were voted down by a large majority.

I can take you to hundreds of small business like mine that are doing just fine. We are growing and we are making money.

Large corporations that are stuck with unions are the ones having the problems.

Ahhh, I get your game now, bring up pointless shit so it's easy to show unions did nothing related to that pointless shit.

As I said above, "experience from the other side of the fence."

Shit tons of union corps are kicking ass, come on.... it's not a one way door, that is without question. Just like a shit ton of non-union corps, need a union, and are failing... it's even, all around.

You're a great example of what happens when a corp actually offers something to employees... it shows union attempts are easy to squash if employees are actually happy.

I'm not pretending anything... I'm following YOUR conversion, and when you're talking about staff and the next post say you had to have 80, everyone is going to logically think the union did that.

So you can stop pretending as if I'm trying to know anything about your stupid ass, when I can only follow your conversion...

And again, as I said above, "experience from the other side of the fence." which is very clear.

That is interesting coming from a former telecommunications worker (you) who most likely had a solid union paying job, wages, and benefits for many years.

I just realized it was 40 years ago today that I became a member of the CWA.

Precisely. And I was a union insider, so when I say they have outlived their usefulness you can take it to the bank.

Yes, we know you said that "AFTER" I posted what I did.... you suck at this game.

End of the day, I don't give a shit about your Canadian unions... but... Canadian or not, only a complete idiot thinks they're of no good, have no benefits, and do nothing.

I know a person that is the head of the union and he sings a different song.... oh he doesn't praise the union... don't get me wrong, but he damn sure doesn't deny what the corp has done to them and the need for the union.

If you were an insider... then you know the corp wasn't playing nice from day one, otherwise, you're full of shit.

relax, there's really no need to call people idiots about the matter simply because we don't share your view.

Please do not imply that I am a liar. If you read my post I said they outlived their usefulness, which means at one point in time they were not only useful but desired. Required even. But those days are long gone and I will gladly debate your union head friend about that fact. Debating a bunch of people that have never really been involved is pointless.

Both sides love corps. Obama raised something like $50 million in the second quarter of this year. 99.9% of that money came from super pacs and big corporations. .1% from individual donors.

He's an idiot.. straight up.

Yeah, because safety standards by unions is something nobody has heard off. Because hospitals don't have staffing requirements... fucking idiot.

Hey, being that you don't know shit about American unions and that is clearly what we're talking about, how about you take your own advice and go fuck yourself.

Do unions still proudly use the stamp/sticker that says "Made By White Men"?

I think asking do we need unions or not is like asking if we need guardrails or not. Usually we don't, we can't forsee when we might. So do we need to keep using man hours and steel on them or not?

oh, i thought you were referring to me/ the rest of us that see it differently.

Yeah I read what you posted... So your opinion is now that you're not in one, they're not needed, even though new ones start in areas that need them, all the time.

Btw, I don't think you were an insider, I think you were either a member or a manager, about as involved as most people here.

oh no, not at all... I would make a new post for that and call everyone out equally if that was the case :)

I don't care if someone supports or does not support them... but I do find the person/people to be a bit naive of history and current events, if they don't think they aren't needed today. And even more so if they can't find any benefit in them, at all... at that point, I have to classify the person as an idiot.

<-derp.........//////1111111

been in two unions, one if we went on strike, we weren't allowed to strike the job sites we were working at
The other were teamsters, they weren't all that great to have around.

Thing is, they did a lot of good with all the millions of dollars they collect from union members to spend on Lawyers to in fluence the politicians of the US and courts. They just haven't done anything lately , except make it hard for a state to function.

But you want to blame big business and the GOP for bringing them down?

Fucking funny to me since the biggest blow to the UNIONS power was the stripping of collective bargaining of Federal Employee's by president Carter, yes a Democrat did it!!

As the OP pointed out, here in America, those standards, regs, etc were created & ironed out by the unions. And for those that forgot history, the unions came about because the gov was doing nothing, while corps were fucking us over.

Grats to Canadians for having labor laws before unions... but that's not how it went down in America.

Half of what you listed was either strongly opposed by the unions and their democrat puppets or occurred before unions. For instance the civil rights act was filibustered for 54 days by the democrats, at the behest of unions.

The eight hour day was instituted in the mid 1800's. Grant signed a national proclamation in 1869. The AFL wasn't founded until twenty years later and large unions were a product of WWII, in the century.

Sorry, but you're got unions taking credit for things that happened 80 years before the union movement.

Read the OP again.... You're about a 100 years off: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964

Some of you should compare Pro-Union States with Right to Work states on the number of jobs they are creating. What good is a union if there's no jobs to begin with? :winkwink:

No, you are wrong again. Even in my waning years as a union member I thought they were a waste and served to only hold me back.

And you would be wrong, very wrong. WTF is a union manager?

Arizona, right to work state... Tucson, lowest job/housing, growth/sales, etc in the Country. Something like 40b in the hole for the State, some 15 or so for the city... no part of this state is functioning correctly.

I suspect you're wrong on some things... Not sure what the laws are like in the states, but there are always "loopholes"... Typically when you work in some sort of "management" position (or something similar that a company can use as a loophole to get around certain labour laws), there is no such thing as an 8 hr work day, overtime pay etc... And then the company has a culture of pushing employees to work far beyond 40hrs/week and make it "appear" as if it's "required"... Large corporations have so many people working 60+ hours a week as common place... While true that you may be paid more than some other employees, but in comparison, if you were paid as much as those other ones, plus overtime, you'd make far more than your yearly salary.

Frankly, if companies actually employed enough people to get all the work done, there would be no job problem.. I never worked for a company that had an adequate work force for what they were trying to accomplish.

I used to work for a large corporation where this was the culture... They would push as many ppl into some sort of pseudo management position whenever they could. Would have guys bitch at me that they were making less money after they were promoted.. And we were "encouraged" to limit overtime for the guys that were paid for it and to push the team leaders to take up the slack. There were periods of time where we were expected to work 14-16 hour days for weeks and even sometimes I was putting in 30 hour stints. They've been in the news a few times for their "sweat shop" culture... It's actually a US company...

When I think of it, every single major job I had worked the same way.

Oh, so another words, you went to work for a company that already fixed its problems because of the union, thus you were too naive to know what benefits it granted you, because you already had them. Brilliant....

Where did I say union manager? I said, either a member or a manager... Managers aren't normally part of the union but know all the rules because they deal with the employees that are.

I worked in the telecommunication industry as well after college.

I have been on both sides of the equation... worked as both union steward and later as management. I strongly feel that unions should be expanded, not eliminated.


:2 cents:

100... Rights to Work!

Texas is right to work state as well and has created 43% of the jobs in the country this year, and Arizona's problems aren't because of lack of unions.

Union labor has priced itself out of the market and is the number 1 reason for the loss of manufacturing jobs in this country. :2 cents:

Doesn't matter as the culture in companies is that you "have" to work the long hours in order to succeed in the company.. Those that don't were demoted, laid off, given bad reviews etc.

About half the States have lower unemployment rates than Texas, many of which have unions and some are right to work States. While creating jobs has value, one can't ignore States that can retain jobs.

Adding 43% is nice, not ever having to add them in the first place, is far better.

With that, many reports have shown where the growth took place in Texas, almost all of it is in very low wage "tip" type jobs, and the few educated jobs that have came in, are almost all from Cali corps moving in to take advantage of the lowest wages in the Country, even for educated people.

I would be interested in seeing those reports, because from what I understand its alot of oil and gas production, transportation and logistics, heavy construction, business services and financial services. :thumbsup

I've read it several times over the last month or so... here's the last one I remember reading. I'm still looking for the one that broke new jobs / business development down, that showed tip jobs and cali corps as the reason for the boom.

The growth Texas was actually, very short and very limited - but repeated over and over now, as if it's still going on.


Edit: Also Texas job growth numbers, are less impressive when you exclude local state corps, moving locations, because counties/cities give them tax breaks. The State counts it has hiring (new jobs), when really it's just job shifting....

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_917460.html

"Texas is tied for last with Mississippi for the highest percentage of minimum wage jobs and Texas is by far the leader of residents who don't have health insurance. It's low wage jobs without any benefits."

"Texas still ranks as the most dangerous state for worker safety. An April study [PDF] produced by the University of Texas and the Workers Defense Project stated that one in five construction workers were injured on the job, while only 45 percent had workers' compensation. The study also noted that a worker dies every 2.5 days and the state sees 16,900 job-related accidents annually."

"that roughly 45 percent of the more than 300 workers surveyed reported being paid wages below the federal poverty line. And one in five workers complained that their employers had paid them less than what they were owed. Being allowed adequate drinking water is even an issue. Nearly a third of the workers surveyed reported that their employers did not provide them with access to drinking water."

Don't listen to Governor Perry - the guy is a doorknob.

wow 300 workers surveyed! lol You should have posted that at the beginning so I would not have wasted my time reading it.

Is that to me?

45% of 300 is a bad ass amount.... and the article also includes studies from universities, other comparable stats, etc. This also isn't anything new coming out, several articles, studies, etc have been published about the bullshit numbers of Texas.

verizon is the marketplace example of the status of unions...

their wireless, non union business is booming, accounts for 95% of profits.

Their landline, unionized business? Lost 30% of their customers, union on strike fighting to keep benefits won in the 70s.

Then in connecticut, the public employee unions vote down a deal to raise their wages & guarantee no layoffs. As a result of the no vote, thousands of workers are getting laid off.

Unions LOL.

I have a difficult time trying to comprehend why so many people think that a job 30 years old, 20 years old, or even 10 years old can and should still be relevant today. You can't force relevancy. You need to be willing to move, change, and adapt.

The majority of us go to basic schooling until we are 18. Many go to college after that, many go to trade schools... by the age of 22-23 one is "done" with schooling and ready to go "work." That is less than a fifth of someone's life spent training and schooling... why do people think that fifth of life in school should be able to keep them relevant until retirement?

The world changes. If an industry dies, one must move on, not force employment.

one of the things the union is fighting verizon on is that the union workers pay nothing for healthcare benefits. Verizon wants them to start paying, like 99% of the rest of america.

the union fights for this benefit in spite of their sector dying off.

Or maybe the reason their wireless business is booming is because it probably costs less to run and the revenue numbers are so much higher.. Certain aspects of their wireless services are also probably carried out by their landline operation... eg: maintenance of cell towers etc. I'm just shocked at how much people spend on their cellphone and monthly plans compared to what it costs for just a regular phone. People probably average $100 a month for their cellphone and yet you can have your landline for under $30... I pay more a month for my cellphone, that I barely use and have limit services on, than I do for landline... so much more revenue for wireless..