SF Police shut down cell service at protest

[Rochard]

I'm not usually one to bash the police... Remember the killing at BART (transit) station in the Bay Area? Seems they were planning a protest a BART station, so police killed the power to four cell towers locally to shut down cell service in the area..... Amazing.

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) ? Transit officials said Friday that they blocked cellphone reception in San Francisco train stations for three hours to disrupt planned demonstrations over a police shooting.

Officials with the Bay Area Rapid Transit system, better known as BART, said they turned off electricity to cellular towers in four stations from 4 p.m. to 7 p.m. Thursday. The move was made after BART learned that protesters planned to use mobile devices to coordinate a demonstration on train platforms.

"A civil disturbance during commute times at busy downtown San Francisco stations could lead to platform overcrowding and unsafe conditions for BART customers, employees and demonstrators," BART officials said in a prepared statement.

The statement noted that it's illegal to demonstrate on the platform or aboard the trains. BART said it has set aside special areas for demonstrations.

The American Civil Liberties Union questioned the tactic.

"Shutting down access to mobile phones is the wrong response to political protests," the ACLU's Rebecca Farmer said in a blog post.

The Electronic Frontier Foundation said on its website that "BART officials are showing themselves to be of a mind with the former president of Egypt, Hosni Mubarak." Mubarak's regime cut Internet and cellphone services in the country for days early this year while trying to squelch protests demanding an end to his authoritarian rule.

BART officials were confident the cellphone disruptions were legal. The demonstration planned Thursday failed to develop.

"We had a commute that was safe and without disruption," said BART spokesman Jim Allison.

The demonstrators were protesting the July 3 shooting of Charles Blair Hill by BART police who claimed Hill came at them with a knife.

A July 11 demonstration disrupted service during the rush-hour commute, prompting the closing of BART's Civic Center station. Several arrests were made.

(( Source: Yahoo News ))

[CYF]

gee, wasn't the US gov just bitching about Iran shutting off internet/cell access during protests?

[AdultKing]

Salami tactics. Keep slicing away slowly at human rights just like slicing salami. Eventually there is no salami left and you're under totalitarian control

[twistyneck]

SF=Sioux Falls, not San Francisco. Dumbass.

[Agent 488]

kill all hippies.

[billywatson]

Originally Posted by twistyneck

SF=Sioux Falls, not San Francisco. Dumbass.

Um...yea. Every time I hear "SF" when referring to a city Sioux Falls always comes to my mind first.

[twistyneck]

Originally Posted by billywatson

Um...yea. Every time I hear "SF" when referring to a city Sioux Falls always comes to my mind first.

Good, that is as it should be. Thanks for the back up.

[leg4]

Wow, that is some scary shit.

[Captain Kawaii]

Yeah, I just saw the report on RT.COM

Foreign news is also reporting the US Gov is expecting riots here in the not too distant future. Maybe that is why they have been building up extra National Guard Camps around major metro centers for past 10 years...

If we are not careful the whole country will be one big Manzanar...

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by CYF

gee, wasn't the US gov just bitching about Iran shutting off internet/cell access during protests?

The irony does not escape me here.

Wasn't the UK considering something similar?

[BlackCrayon]

and if someone had to call 911 they would be fucked? sounds like terrorism.

[Caligari]

not surprised...

but i wonder how the Sioux Falls 49rs are going to do this year;)

[Sly]

[DonX]

Yeah saw this on the news last night and thought it was pretty interesting. Now that they've done that, they're just going to find another way to protest

[The Duck]

1984 yay, let's have a party in room 101.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

and if someone had to call 911 they would be fucked? sounds like terrorism.

there are many emergency phones at each bart station.

[Failed]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

there are many emergency phones at each bart station.

Well then, that makes it okay. Continue on with the progress of the police state.

[RyuLion]

yawnn.........

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by Failed

Well then, that makes it okay. Continue on with the progress of the police state.

i never said anything was ok.

but the fact is, if there were an emergency there are plenty of phones at bart stations.

people like yourself like to jump to conclusions. i find it beyond sad that you think that since you can't use your cellular in 4 bart stations for a couple hours you are living in a police state.

[stinkyfingers]

why not just require everyone to wear high-tech leashes that, in the event of an emergency, immediately send high voltage into the brain. we have to keep these cattle in line. we can't trust them with something as simple as a cell phone any longer

[dyna mo]

i'm going to have to check, but i am pretty sure providing cell phone coverage in public places is a privilege not a right.

[Failed]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

i never said anything was ok.

but the fact is, if there were an emergency there are plenty of phones at bart stations.

people like yourself like to jump to conclusions. i find it beyond sad that you think that since you can't use your cellular in 4 bart stations for a couple hours you are living in a police state.

You honestly don't believe these are some of the first steps in getting to such a place? The police shut down all cell service in a successful effort to stop a demonstration. These are the same tactics used by dictatorships in the middle east.

You're as unpatriotic and anti-American as they come. You don't sit by and watch our rights being taken away like most Americans, you actively defend those rights being taken by making excuses for the absurdity of what just took place.

You're disgusting!

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by Failed

You honestly don't believe these are some of the first steps in getting to such a place? The police shut down all cell service in a successful effort to stop a demonstration. These are the same tactics used by dictatorships in the middle east.

You're as unpatriotic and anti-American as they come. You don't sit by and watch our rights being taken away like most Americans, you actively defend those rights being taken by making excuses for the absurdity of what just took place.

You're disgusting!

relax. again, jumping to conclusions. i'm sure your whining on gfy about not being able to use a cellphone in a bart station is about all you have done re: your *rights* being taken away yet you point your finger at me. lolz

[dyna mo]

here's a link to the u.s. constitution
http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html

please point where it states you have the inalienable right to have the government provide you cellular service.

spoiled kids with a sense of entitlement.

[stinkyfingers]

when I go to the airport I let them finagle my bagel so ... why not fuck with my cell service to. you have the inalienable right to be a fluffer

[Failed]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

relax. again, jumping to conclusions. i'm sure your whining on gfy about not being able to use a cellphone in a bart station is about all you have done re: your *rights* being taken away yet you point your finger at me. lolz

What conclusion did I jump to? Is this not the same tactic used by dictatorships? Is defending the tactics used in Iran, Syria, Libya, Egypt, etc., here at home not unpatriotic and anti-American?

Jumping to a conclusion is something like assuming I don't do anything but whine on GFY in regards to my rights, isn't it? Look at my post count, and look at yours.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by Failed

What conclusion did I jump to? Is this not the same tactic used by dictatorships? Is defending the tactics used in Iran, Syria, Libya, Egypt, etc., here at home not unpatriotic and anti-American?

Jumping to a conclusion is something like assuming I don't do anything but whine on GFY in regards to my rights, isn't it? Look at my post count, and look at yours.

again, your going to need to be a lot more knowledgeable about matters such as police state and individual rights before you can engage in an intelligent discussion about it all, so go study up. when you compare dictatorships to a bart station, it's clear you are in over your head on the subject.

[Failed]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

again, your going to need to be a lot more knowledgeable about matters such as police state and individual rights before you can engage in an intelligent discussion about it all, so go study up. when you compare dictatorships to a bart station, it's clear you are in over your head on the subject.

The term police state describes a state in which the government exercises rigid and repressive controls over the social, economic and political life of the population. A police state typically exhibits elements of totalitarianism and social control, and there is usually little or no distinction between the law and the exercise of political power by the executive.
The inhabitants of a police state experience restrictions on their mobility, and on their freedom to express or communicate political or other views, which are subject to police monitoring or enforcement. Political control may be exerted by means of a secret police force which operates outside the boundaries normally imposed by a constitutional state.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by Failed

The term police state describes a state in which the government exercises rigid and repressive controls over the social, economic and political life of the population. A police state typically exhibits elements of totalitarianism and social control, and there is usually little or no distinction between the law and the exercise of political power by the executive.
The inhabitants of a police state experience restrictions on their mobility, and on their freedom to express or communicate political or other views, which are subject to police monitoring or enforcement. Political control may be exerted by means of a secret police force which operates outside the boundaries normally imposed by a constitutional state.

that's a good start, now tell me, how does this apply to shutting down re-transmitting cellular signals (which bart never had to offer to begin with, it's a luxury) at underground bart stations.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

here's a link to the u.s. constitution
http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html

please point where it states you have the inalienable right to have the government provide you cellular service.

spoiled kids with a sense of entitlement.

waiting on your answer to this.

[Failed]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

that's a good start, now tell me, how does this apply to shutting down re-transmitting cellular signals (which bart never had to offer to begin with, it's a luxury) at underground bart stations.

My god man, if you can't seriously see the similarities between what happened and the progress towards a police state, or that the exact same tactics are used in current police states around the globe, then you must be blind.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by Failed

My god man, if you can't seriously see the similarities between what happened and the progress towards a police state, or that the exact same tactics are used in current police states around the globe, then you must be blind.

yeah, i tend to not see the world from a paranoid perspective. must be because i understand the difference between rights and privileges.

and i also understand that simply because cellular is turned off in some basements i am still free to speak my views, organize and demonstrate. which i am sure you do often since you are so passionate about individual rights eh

so fill us in, what all do you do to fight the police state? other than come to gfy and point your finger at others?

[Failed]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

yeah, i tend to not see the world from a paranoid perspective. must be because i understand the difference between rights and privileges.

and i also understand that simply because cellular is turned off in some basements i am still free to speak my views, organize and demonstrate. which i am sure you do often since you are so passionate about individual rights eh

so fill us in, what all do you do to fight the police state? other than come to gfy and point your finger at others?

Well, since you demonstrated that you fight for the police state, I guess it's only fair that I fill you in on what I do to prevent it.

As you already know, I engage those who defend such forms of control, like yourself. I live close to Washington DC and have participated in many demonstrations. The last time I visited was at the Stewart rally to restore sanity, which was a lot more fun than demonstration, but hey, everyone needs a break. I donate to organizations, and participate in their awareness events, including trying to gather more support and recruiting more members. My last donation was to the ACLU in April, after a good month, here is a link, you should donate too http://action.aclu.org/site/PageServer?pagename=FJ_donationhome&s_subsrc=horiz _nav_hp

By the way, check out their front page which has a link to an article with their view on what happened in SF.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by Failed

Well, since you demonstrated that you fight for the police state, I guess it's only fair that I fill you in on what I do to prevent it.

As you already know, I engage those who defend such forms of control, like yourself. I live close to Washington DC and have participated in many demonstrations. The last time I visited was at the Stewart rally to restore sanity, which was a lot more fun than demonstration, but hey, everyone needs a break. I donate to organizations, and participate in their awareness events, including trying to gather more support and recruiting more members. My last donation was to the ACLU in April, after a good month, here is a link, you should donate too http://action.aclu.org/site/PageServer?pagename=FJ_donationhome&s_subsrc=horiz _nav_hp

By the way, check out their front page which has a link to an article with their view on what happened in SF.

right on then. nevertheless, it's interesting to note that the aclu merely questioned the tactic.
"Shutting down access to mobile phones is the wrong response to political protests," the ACLU's Rebecca Farmer said.


here's another way to look at it- let's say bart officials closed the station for ANY reason, that is not necessarily a move towards police state, even though it removes the facility that provides you the privilege of travel and convenience of using your cell phone during.

it's fundamentally important to understand the difference between rights and privileges, especially in a society of 300+million people.

[stinkyfingers]

so this "Failed" guy actually does something. puts his money where his mouth is and DynaHo trolls GFY 24/7 365 with his knowledge and wisdom. got it

[Failed]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

right on then. nevertheless, it's interesting to note that the aclu merely questioned the tactic.
"Shutting down access to mobile phones is the wrong response to political protests," the ACLU's Rebecca Farmer said.


here's another way to look at it- let's say bart officials closed the station for ANY reason, that is not necessarily a move towards police state, even though it removes the facility that provides you the privilege of travel and convenience of using your cell phone during.

it's fundamentally important to understand the difference between rights and privileges, especially in a society of 300+million people.

The ACLU's Rebecca Farmer also said the following about the incident:

"All over the world people are using mobile devices to organize protests against repressive regimes, and we rightly criticize governments that respond by shutting down cell service, calling their actions anti-democratic and a violation of the rights to free expression and assembly. Are we really willing to tolerate the same silencing of protest here in the United States?

BART?s actions were glaringly small-minded as technology and the ability to be connected have many uses. Imagine if someone had a heart attack on the train when the phones were blocked and no one could call 911.

And where do we draw the line? These protestors were using public transportation to get to the demonstration ? should the government be able to shut that down too?

Shutting down access to mobile phones is the wrong response to political protests, whether it?s halfway around the world or right here at home. The First Amendment protects everybody?s right to free expression, and when the government responds to people protesting against it by silencing them, it?s dangerous to democracy."

I understand the difference between privileges and rights, I promise you that I do. This is definitely a gray area between the two. The demonstrators were indeed silenced by the government, yet were still free to demonstrate and speak at the same time.

My whole point is, if we just keep our mouths shut about incidents like this, or defend the police in using tactics like this, that we make it easier for them to go even further in the future because they encountered such little resistance.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by stinkyfingers

so this "Failed" guy actually does something. puts his money where his mouth is and DynaHo trolls GFY 24/7 365 with his knowledge and wisdom. got it

did you have something of significance to contribute to the discussion or are you just pointing out that you are a hypocrite? i'm going with the latter.

[stinkyfingers]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

did you have something of significance to contribute

I just did

[Failed]

Anyway, love a lively debate, I'm off to try and make some more money before the day is over to donate...to myself this weekend! I'll come back to this thread Monday, enjoy your weekend!

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by Failed

The ACLU's Rebecca Farmer also said the following about the incident:



I understand the difference between privileges and rights, I promise you that I do. This is definitely a gray area between the two. The demonstrators were indeed silenced by the government, yet were still free to demonstrate and speak at the same time.

My whole point is, if we just keep our mouths shut about incidents like this, or defend the police in using tactics like this, that we make it easier for them to go even further in the future because they encountered such little resistance.

i appreciate this reply. and this is exactly how i see it. it is a grey area, so i am not inclined to default to a *this is a police state move*. i think it's important to pick battles wisely, at this point, i am not so sure this is a valid fight to pick re: government moving toward's a police state.


being able to use cell phones in underground bart stations is a luxury provided by bart, removing that luxury is not a police clamp down.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by stinkyfingers

I just did

and we are all impressed. keep it up, soon you will be able to participate in adult conversations.

[stinkyfingers]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

keep it up, soon you will be able to participate in adult conversations.

When you have one I'll be more then happy to. In the meantime, see sig ...

[Jman]

Why close cell service, since protest aren't anymore about free speech and basically just looting and burning down private and public property... Just take out the rubber bullets, tear gas and fire truck hose.

Give the idiots what they deserve...

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by stinkyfingers

When you have one I'll be more then happy to. In the meantime, see sig ...

well, i guess i was wrong when i said "soon you will be able to participate in adult convo".

obviously, it's going to take longer.

[dyna mo]

this event reminds me of when i lived in san francisco through the 90s. the messenger bicyclists started an event called critical mass where they all organized downtown on a friday at 5 pm and proceeded to clog & jam up traffic. authorities shut that shit down asap and after meeting with the organizers forced them to provide a route map and require police escort. the event continues to this day and in fact, is in many many cities by now.