FFN down another 25% this week, below $3

[Shap]

The stock just keeps dropping and dropping

[TheStout]

You should buy in before its too late ;)

[marlboroack]

Thanks for the heads up lol

[Shap]

Originally Posted by TheStout

You should buy in before its too late ;)

Get in while you can still lose big right?

[Shap]

At this rate some time in October Jay will be pumping this as his penny stock of the week that he has $250,000 invested in LOL

[magicmike]

sad if not true

[will76]

Originally Posted by Shap

The stock just keeps dropping and dropping

$2.93.... we just heard the good news over here and throwing a party!!!



free drinks for everyone!!! the coca cola is on me!!!

Originally Posted by TheStout

You should buy in before its too late ;)

yeah too late, as in delisted LOL

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by Shap

At this rate some time in October Jay will be pumping this as his penny stock of the week that he has $250,000 invested in LOL

That's down to .09 now.

[JamesGw]

Originally Posted by will76

$2.93.... we just heard the good news over here and throwing a party!!!



free drinks for everyone!!! the coca cola is on me!!!




yeah too late, as in delisted LOL

I'd do the one on the right.

[epitome]

Pretty soon everybody will be able to buy a million shares each with the change in their sofa.

[ilnjscb]

Why don't they renegotiate that debt? Who pays 20%? Here, guys, buy 10% of this bank: Anchor BanCorp Wisconsin Inc. ABCW for 1.6m and get a seat on the board. Refinance 5m of the debt using your best assets and threaten to declare bankruptcy if the other lender doesn't take secondary. Force them to reduce your interest in exchange for 1m preferred. Sell 9% of yourselves to a Chinese bank and ask them for a loan at reasonable terms. There are a million ways to do it.

[V_RocKs]

Is this a buy signal?

[SomeCreep]

Originally Posted by Shap

The stock just keeps dropping and dropping

We all knew it would.

[The Porn Nerd]

Shapster, i TOLD you man: take that Manwin cash and invest in real estate.
REAL ESTATE.

Everyone wants to be Gordon Gecko, that's the problem with the Stock Market. :D

[brassmonkey]

can i borrow 100k shap?

[My Pimp]

That is weired. Sometimes it is high, then it falls again.

[BestXXXPorn]

Originally Posted by MisterPeabody

Shapster, i TOLD you man: take that Manwin cash and invest in real estate.
REAL ESTATE.

Everyone wants to be Gordon Gecko, that's the problem with the Stock Market. :D

I'm putting what money I have into real estate... it's just so hard not to... I can pick up a few houses after selling my current place down in Florida, rent them out for immediate profit, and easily double the cash with a sale when the market rebounds.

Waaay better deal than trying to buy any stock right now. If you're willing to leave the cash in for a few years. I don't have deep pockets but it doesn't take much right now.

$325k houses (three to four years ago) are valued at $125k right now with TONS in foreclosure... You can pick up houses for five figures and flip them in five years or so all the while renting them out at a profit even putting only 10% down; including paying a management company.

[The Porn Nerd]

Originally Posted by BestXXXPorn

I'm putting what money I have into real estate... it's just so hard not to... I can pick up a few houses after selling my current place down in Florida, rent them out for immediate profit, and easily double the cash with a sale when the market rebounds.

Waaay better deal than trying to buy any stock right now. If you're willing to leave the cash in for a few years. I don't have deep pockets but it doesn't take much right now.

$325k houses (three to four years ago) are valued at $125k right now with TONS in foreclosure... You can pick up houses for five figures and flip them in five years or so all the while renting them out at a profit even putting only 10% down; including paying a management company.

Bingo baby!!!! Smart move - but if you're talking millions, like I'm assuming the Shapmeister is now considering, then unless we're talking buying entire blocks of city streets I'd suggest commercial real estate.

[SZNY]

Investing in real estate in this economic situation is pretty risky.

[CamTraffic]

aren't you retired yet?

[will76]

Originally Posted by My Pimp

That is weired. Sometimes it is high, then it falls again.

what??? sometimes it's high? It don't think its cracked $4 in over a month, and since a couple weeks after its IPO it hasn't seen $6+ Been on steady slide ever since...

[will76]

Originally Posted by SZNY

Investing in real estate in this economic situation is pretty risky.

now is the time to buy, rentals would be your best bet. You can find plenty of deals where you can purchase a rental with 20% down and be able to collect a lot more in rent then your mortgage.

People always forget its best to buy when something is down, not high. But most people buy high and then sell low. Right now the real estate market is very low and shouldn't go much lower if any lower at all.

[The Porn Nerd]

Originally Posted by will76

now is the time to buy, rentals would be your best bet. You can find plenty of deals where you can purchase a rental with 20% down and be able to collect a lot more in rent then your mortgage.

People always forget its best to buy when something is down, not high. But most people buy high and then sell low. Right now the real estate market is very low and shouldn't go much lower if any lower at all.

Let's hope not but I feel a bubble bursting, then another replacing it, then another BURSTING, then we're all fucked.

But that's just me. :D

[tony286]

Bluehorseshoe loves FFN

[Joshua G]

Originally Posted by BestXXXPorn

I'm putting what money I have into real estate... it's just so hard not to... I can pick up a few houses after selling my current place down in Florida, rent them out for immediate profit, and easily double the cash with a sale when the market rebounds.

yes. Because its so easy to find reliable tenants, & replace broken plumbing & roofs. & easy to double your money when the market rebounds in about 20 years. Good luck

[BestXXXPorn]

Originally Posted by joshgirls

yes. Because its so easy to find reliable tenants, & replace broken plumbing & roofs. & easy to double your money when the market rebounds in about 20 years. Good luck

Market will be back faster than 20 years. The prices on the houses are 1/3 of what they were at the peak of the bubble; which is too much. But getting the house back to a normal stable price won't take more than 10 years, probably less. Not to mention you're generating revenue the entire time. For me, I don't need the revenue. I'll just dump it into an account to pay for repairs, etc... And I believe I mentioned in my previous post hiring a management company to handle all the billing, tenant complaints, repairs, etc... I'd definitely take the hands off approach.

[Goldmaniacs]

dot com stocks are often hit harder during high volatility periods

[Goldmaniacs]

finding a good management company that won't eat all your profits in unnecessary repairs and fees is 100 times harder than finding reliable tenants.

Originally Posted by BestXXXPorn

Market will be back faster than 20 years. The prices on the houses are 1/3 of what they were at the peak of the bubble; which is too much. But getting the house back to a normal stable price won't take more than 10 years, probably less. Not to mention you're generating revenue the entire time. For me, I don't need the revenue. I'll just dump it into an account to pay for repairs, etc... And I believe I mentioned in my previous post hiring a management company to handle all the billing, tenant complaints, repairs, etc... I'd definitely take the hands off approach.

[fris]

what will happen to the company if it gets yanked?

[AdultKing]

Originally Posted by fris

what will happen to the company if it gets yanked?

my guess is restructuring, de-mutualization.

[will76]

Originally Posted by tony286

Bluehorseshoe loves FFN

HAHAHAHA good one

[Diomed]

The stock market has always been a gamble.

Yes you can improve your odds, but at the end of the day it's a gamble.

Now,

if FFN survives long enough to dump some of it's negative assets.. even if it continues to decrease in price and stay there for quite some time.. once they are dumped, it will shoot right back up.

It's just a matter if you want to take a gamble. Every now and then you just have to take a punt.

[Joshua G]

Originally Posted by BestXXXPorn

Market will be back faster than 20 years. The prices on the houses are 1/3 of what they were at the peak of the bubble; which is too much. But getting the house back to a normal stable price won't take more than 10 years, probably less. Not to mention you're generating revenue the entire time. For me, I don't need the revenue. I'll just dump it into an account to pay for repairs, etc... And I believe I mentioned in my previous post hiring a management company to handle all the billing, tenant complaints, repairs, etc... I'd definitely take the hands off approach.

Not sure. The bubble was massive, driven by too-easy credit & fraud, factors that wont be back. Given the sad state of finances for most in the middle class, i dont see what will drive a rebound anytime this decade. A management co. Will cost you all your profit from renting. If your not experienced in real estate you will get killed.

[Biggy2]

I think FFN is doing a good/decent job. The loss statements are a bit overstated. There looks to be a healthy nucleus, they are taking the profits and re-paying back the debt over time. It looks like they continue to cut the fat, and got hit with some unfortunate 1 time fees like the $15m settlement broken in to 3 - 5m parts.

I think if there's any real problem, it has to do with little public support for the stock (Harry, Jane, and Main Street or institutional investors buying into the stock). I think the only real losers might be the public shareholders who bought into the IPO or are long. I'd bet the debt holders get paid. I'd bet the insiders are collecting their salaries. I just don't think there's a lot of demand for the shares and I'm not quite sure if demand for their shares will really influence their operations.

If the stock trades at $1 or $3, or $7 what does it change? All it really means is their ability to raise money with future issuing, or then insiders being able to exit to the public market is reduced. They can still just operate the thing, collect salaries, pay off debt in time, etc.

[gleem]

Originally Posted by BestXXXPorn

$325k houses (three to four years ago) are valued at $125k right now with TONS in foreclosure... You can pick up houses for five figures and flip them in five years or so all the while renting them out at a profit even putting only 10% down; including paying a management company.

Who's giving loans on rental properties for 10% down? Those days of buying up investment properties with 10% or less are gone, at least here in FL.

[fuzebox]

Originally Posted by Biggy2

I think FFN is doing a good/decent job. The loss statements are a bit overstated. There looks to be a healthy nucleus, they are taking the profits and re-paying back the debt over time. It looks like they continue to cut the fat, and got hit with some unfortunate 1 time fees like the $15m settlement broken in to 3 - 5m parts.

I think if there's any real problem, it has to do with little public support for the stock (Harry, Jane, and Main Street or institutional investors buying into the stock). I think the only real losers might be the public shareholders who bought into the IPO or are long. I'd bet the debt holders get paid. I'd bet the insiders are collecting their salaries. I just don't think there's a lot of demand for the shares and I'm not quite sure if demand for their shares will really influence their operations.

If the stock trades at $1 or $3, or $7 what does it change? All it really means is their ability to raise money with future issuing, or then insiders being able to exit to the public market is reduced. They can still just operate the thing, collect salaries, pay off debt in time, etc.

Biggy we have no need for logic in an AFF hate thread!

[shimmy2]

Originally Posted by gleem

Who's giving loans on rental properties for 10% down? Those days of buying up investment properties with 10% or less are gone, at least here in FL.

yeah my wells fargo mtg guy says the days of 20% down "no doc" loans are over. i used to call those the webmaster specials

[Nautilus]

Originally Posted by Biggy2

I think FFN is doing a good/decent job. The loss statements are a bit overstated. There looks to be a healthy nucleus, they are taking the profits and re-paying back the debt over time. It looks like they continue to cut the fat, and got hit with some unfortunate 1 time fees like the $15m settlement broken in to 3 - 5m parts.

I think if there's any real problem, it has to do with little public support for the stock (Harry, Jane, and Main Street or institutional investors buying into the stock). I think the only real losers might be the public shareholders who bought into the IPO or are long. I'd bet the debt holders get paid. I'd bet the insiders are collecting their salaries. I just don't think there's a lot of demand for the shares and I'm not quite sure if demand for their shares will really influence their operations.

If the stock trades at $1 or $3, or $7 what does it change? All it really means is their ability to raise money with future issuing, or then insiders being able to exit to the public market is reduced. They can still just operate the thing, collect salaries, pay off debt in time, etc.

What "healthy nucleus" are you talking about? Sponsoring illegal tubes and profiting from it? That's some "healthy" biz model indeed lol. But even at that they're not as good anymore as they used to be - the damn thing is loosing both traffic and members. Check their financial reports (members base down 10%) and alexa stats (also way down from their hayday).

Not to mention the upcoming anti-piracy legislation (PROTECT IP Act) which will make advertisers liable for copyright infringement too unless the pull their ads off a pirating site. With that act implemented they'll loose a lion share of their traffic, and sales too, because in the age of facebook you can only sustain paid subscription based social networking site by massive (and false) advertising.

The damn thing is going to die, stock market has the right vision of it.

[iamtam]

Originally Posted by My Pimp

That is weired. Sometimes it is high, then it falls again.

if you look, it tends to go up only when the market is overall on a hard rise. any other condition, it appears to drop like a rock.

$2.93 now, likely < $1 by the end of the year and delisting shortly thereafter.

... and then sold to manwin for pennies on the dollar.

[will76]

Originally Posted by Biggy2

I think FFN is doing a good/decent job. The loss statements are a bit overstated. There looks to be a healthy nucleus, they are taking the profits and re-paying back the debt over time. It looks like they continue to cut the fat, and got hit with some unfortunate 1 time fees like the $15m settlement broken in to 3 - 5m parts.

I think if there's any real problem, it has to do with little public support for the stock (Harry, Jane, and Main Street or institutional investors buying into the stock). I think the only real losers might be the public shareholders who bought into the IPO or are long. I'd bet the debt holders get paid. I'd bet the insiders are collecting their salaries. I just don't think there's a lot of demand for the shares and I'm not quite sure if demand for their shares will really influence their operations.

If the stock trades at $1 or $3, or $7 what does it change? All it really means is their ability to raise money with future issuing, or then insiders being able to exit to the public market is reduced. They can still just operate the thing, collect salaries, pay off debt in time, etc.

1. Obviously millions of investors don't think they are doing a great job or their stock wouldn't have dropped over 70% and be valued under $3 a share. Yeah, blame their stock price on "Main Street" investors don't like them The losers are ANYONE who has purchased their stock, not just at the IPO. Obviously the IPO purchases lost the most, but since the stock has steadily gone down it is very likely that almost everyone who has purchased stock, and still holding it, will lose.

2. They have a healthy nucleus? LOL on the contrary its riddled with cancer. The people in charge are the same ones who have been losing tons of money with Penthouse over the last several years and also who purchased ibill and ran that into the ground. Great track record for them. Also, AFF's sales have gone down.

3. Unfortunate, one time fees of 15M ? LOL yeah ok, that was just the settlement from one lawsuit. They have several others in the process, all as the defendant, including a huge one that has Facebook suing them. I wouldn't say that there lawsuit payouts are "one time fees", should be more of a line item, monthly expenses lol.

4. Paying back Debt? They have over 400M in debt. Last Quarter, they didn't make enough money in sales to cover their operating cost much less to pay back debt and all the legal fees/suits (hence why they had about 13M in loses). The 400M in the owe in debt is going to be called due in 2 years, no way in hell they can pay that off, and i doubt they will even be in business by then anyway.

5. " If the stock trades at $1 or $3, or $7 what does it change? All it really means is their ability to raise money with future issuing..."

It changes a LOT. Considering they are going negative, have 100's of million in debt and a huge legal suit hanging over their heads I would say the ability to raise money would be critical to them trying to stay a float.

Originally Posted by fuzebox

Biggy we have no need for logic in an AFF hate thread!

Logic is welcome, but his post was fantasy land. Just because people "hate" doesn't mean they aren't correct in what they are saying. You people who love AFF can keep your heads up your ass and just keep hoping they going to stay in business and sending you checks each week. Most of you can't even understand that it's no just AFF any more. It's FFN which is really the penthouse crew. How well has penthouse been doing under these guys? How well did the same crew do with ibill?

[will76]

Originally Posted by Diomed

Now,

if FFN survives long enough to dump some of it's negative assets.. even if it continues to decrease in price and stay there for quite some time.. once they are dumped, it will shoot right back up.

You do understand that it's "negative assets" is mainly penthouse, which since this is the crew that ran penthouse and they whore out the penthouse "brand" to try to get partners/investors, they will likely never dump it. Other than that AFF has been costing them the most money because of the debt they owe from buying it, which you can't dump that and it's not a negative asset. And also the lawsuits that have been resulted from the way these morons operate. What attorney in his right mind would sign off on them using the domain name facebookofsex.com ? Blind leading the blind over there... more fuckups to continue in the future I am sure.

Originally Posted by iamtam

if you look, it tends to go up only when the market is overall on a hard rise. any other condition, it appears to drop like a rock.

$2.93 now, likely < $1 by the end of the year and delisting shortly thereafter.

... and then sold to manwin for pennies on the dollar.

I agree with your analysis... stop "hating" though bro!

[iamtam]

Originally Posted by will76

You do understand that it's "negative assets" is mainly penthouse, which since this is the crew that ran penthouse and they whore out the penthouse "brand" to try to get partners/investors, they will likely never dump it. Other than that AFF has been costing them the most money because of the debt they owe from buying it, which you can't dump that and it's not a negative asset. And also the lawsuits that have been resulted from the way these morons operate. What attorney in his right mind would sign off on them using the domain name facebookofsex.com ? Blind leading the blind over there... more fuckups to continue in the future I am sure.

when they releases their information pre-ipo a couple of years back, they customer acquisition costs were higher than their total customer revenue. if i remember correctly, they were paying $125 or so to obtain a new customer, and on average they were spending about $100. that makes a huge gap to cover.

[will76]

Originally Posted by Nautilus

What "healthy nucleus" are you talking about? Sponsoring illegal tubes and profiting from it? That's some "healthy" biz model indeed lol. But even at that they're not as good anymore as they used to be - the damn thing is loosing both traffic and members. Check their financial reports (members base down 10%) and alexa stats (also way down from their hayday).

Not to mention the upcoming anti-piracy legislation (PROTECT IP Act) which will make advertisers liable for copyright infringement too unless the pull their ads off a pirating site. With that act implemented they'll loose a lion share of their traffic, and sales too, because in the age of facebook you can only sustain paid subscription based social networking site by massive (and false) advertising.

The damn thing is going to die, stock market has the right vision of it.

no no no, the stock market investors who spend all day analyzing companies and their profit/ loss potential etc... are wrong and just don't like AFF because it's adult. The AFF affiliates know better. lol.

Some nucleus they have there, with the bright idea to run a website called facebookofsex too.

Originally Posted by iamtam

when they releases their information pre-ipo a couple of years back, they customer acquisition costs were higher than their total customer revenue. if i remember correctly, they were paying $125 or so to obtain a new customer, and on average they were spending about $100. that makes a huge gap to cover.

I remember they were doing huge payouts to try to drive up sales and members to make the site look marketable for sale, the only sucker they could find was Penthouse, who after sinking ibill, had nothing left to hold onto to try to keep penthouse floating. Andrew wanted to sell AFF bad and wanted out, couldn't find a buyer and was ramping up payouts to try to make it look more attractive. He dumped it on penthouse, who promised them most of their $$$ from going public... basically they screwed each other. Having to drop the original IPO from 500M to 50M i bet cost Andrew and Lars a LOT of money. Hence why the debt is still so huge. If they could have gone IPO for 500M, they wouldn't be carrying much debt right now and would be better off. At the end of the day everyone will lose, Various Inc, Investors, people who buy the stock, and even affiliates.

[marlboroack]

To tell you honestly, we are fucked. Live today get fucked more tomorrow.

[RycEric]

Shorts are making bank and they wonder why it's under investigation. Nah.... couldn't be manipulation could it? Never!

[Nautilus]

Originally Posted by will76

Some nucleus they have there, with the bright idea to run a website called facebookofsex too.

Yeah, and since that "healthy" idea failed, my free armchair lawyer advice for them is to try googleofsex.com now