Well Libya is a ... success story ... The awfull dictator is ...

[directfiesta]

... replaced by new ones

All on the coin of the idiots from the west that includes my great peacefull country, CANADA ... ( my taxes are paying for that ... )

Libya's NTC accused of detainee abuse

Libya's National Transitional Council (NTC) is holding about 2,500 detainees in the capital Tripoli alone, many of whom have been beaten and subjected to other ill-treatment and not given access to lawyers or judicial proceedings, Amnesty International, the London-based human-rights watchdog, says.

Prisoners interviewed by the group's researchers said they had been held for various durations, from a few days to a few months and that with rare exception they had not been arrested under any kind of legal order.

In the report released on Thursday, Detention Abuses Staining the New Libya, Amnesty said mistreatment most commonly involves beatings, particularly with wooden sticks or ropes on the feet.

At least two guards in two different detention facilities told Amnesty researchers they beat detainees in order to extract "confessions" more quickly.

Hassiba Hadj Sahraoui, the group's deputy director for the Middle East and North Africa, said: "There is a real risk that without firm and immediate action, some patterns of the past might be repeated. Arbitrary arrest and torture were a hallmark of Colonel [Muammar] Gaddafi's rule.

"We understand that the transitional authorities are facing many challenges, but if they do not make a clear break with the past now, they will effectively be sending out a message that treating detainees like this is to be tolerated in the new Libya."

... video on the site
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/af...717966780.html

... and that is without taking into account the civilians killed by NATO bombings in Sirte , while enforcing the " no-fly zone " ....

Most heard phrase in Libya now : GOD IS GREAT .... !!!!

[Just Alex]

But what about democracy?

[Fletch XXX]

off with their heads

[Tempest]

But.. but.. but.. The US doesn't support that kind of interrogation.. Well.. unless it's them shipping people to Libya to have those guys do their thing while they watch over it so they can officially say they don't torture detainees.... Guess it's business as usual in Libya...

[Lucy - CSC]

I wonder if the profits from the oil will go to the people like Gadafi wanted also I wonder where the missing gold is?

[Helix]

dictators - a new vegetable

[Rochard]

Most of us live in the civilized world where these kinds of things are horrible crimes. In some countries it's a way of life.

This is a country where an entire government and it's military was overthrown by it's people, and I'm guessing there is a lot of lawlessness going on. After decades of being ruled by one family, there is going to be some pay back against the regime.

[garce]

Originally Posted by Just Alex

But what about democracy?

There is no such thing as a democracy anymore - that word died with Ancient Greece. No reason to expect it to pertain to a fascist shithole like Libya.

BTW - In a true democracy, the people themselves form policy and create laws. Having elected representatives do your speaking for you is not democratic. In a democracy, you do not vote for a person - you vote for an idea.

[Mr Pheer]

I like oil.

[Barry-xlovecam]

The end of World War II in "civilized" Europe was rather messy and the end of the Civil War in the USA was years to a real cessation of hostilities.

It takes time to rebuild a civil infrastructure when the "old guard" is defeated.

[Lucy - CSC]

Originally Posted by garce

There is no such thing as a democracy anymore - that word died with Ancient Greece. No reason to expect it to pertain to a fascist shithole like Libya.

BTW - In a true democracy, the people themselves form policy and create laws. Having elected representatives do your speaking for you is not democratic. In a democracy, you do not vote for a person - you vote for an idea.

If you actually read up on what the democracy was like in Libya when Gadafi was there it was exactly how you described as a true democracy.

[Shotsie]

What should have been accepted in early 2011 when all of this began is that there is no significant number of secular democrats in any of these countries who will lead these ancient countries into the Western promised democracy. Truth is the West was much better off with dictators in power, they were the last defense against the Muslim Brotherhood and Salafists taking control, and they helped us in our counter-terrorism efforts. Look at Egypt, Mubarak was the scourge of the Brotherhood and the Salafists ? both enemies of the West ? and the largely effective protector of Egypt?s Coptic Christian Community. There is no surprise in the fact that without Mubarak the Islamists? power is rising and the Copts are being routinely killed and their churches destroyed. The Sinai oil pipeline to Israel from Egypt has been blown up six times since Mubarak was deposed, and things are only going to get worse over there.

[marlboroack]

Yo, i heard if everyone in America didn't buy gas for 1 whole day. It would go down like 1$.

[JFK]

Originally Posted by Mr Pheer

I like oil.

WD40 is a fine one

[Captain Kawaii]

Western powers have kept the middle east 1000 years behind the times for a reason...CONTROL.

Ask the Israelis
Ask the Egyptians and everyone between Morocco and Pakistan.

Whoever is in charge needs a big boot and a bigger sword. If we had the same paradigm in US right now, I believe streets would already be on fire.

Just my two cents having lived for more than a decade in North Africa.

[femdomdestiny]

Only fools and people without education can think that Gadafi is a bad person. I can't understand that in internet era there are still people who are watching news and believe shit there.Gadafi has almost absolulte support of it's people and that's why even today nato mercenaries and muslim fundamentalists can't conquer many cities.

Anyway, like it is always when west attack, normal country is now destroyed, ruined and people killed in great numbers.

This is exactly what NATO is doing there, it is just a question do you want to see this and investigate further. Next video is only for those with strong stomach:

http://sr-rs.facebook.com/photo.php?v=159369700822404
or

https://youtube.com/watch?v=LaS44...eature=related

http://libyasos.blogspot.com/2011/07...ng-rebels.html

[scottybuzz]

Originally Posted by Lucy - CSC

If you actually read up on what the democracy was like in Libya when Gadafi was there it was exactly how you described as a true democracy.

morons like you moan when the usa does nothing and you moan when they do something. just stfu

[scottybuzz]

Originally Posted by femdomdestiny

Only fools and people without education can think that Gadafi is a bad person. I can't understand that in internet era there are still people who are watching news and believe shit there.Gadafi has almost absolulte support of it's people and that's why even today nato mercenaries and muslim fundamentalists can't conquer many cities.

Anyway, like it is always when west attack, normal country is now destroyed, ruined and people killed in great numbers.

This is exactly what NATO is doing there, it is just a question do you want to see this and investigate further. Next video is only for those with strong stomach:

http://sr-rs.facebook.com/photo.php?v=159369700822404
or

https://youtube.com/watch?v=LaS44...eature=related

http://libyasos.blogspot.com/2011/07...ng-rebels.html

strange, did you say anything on this board before the attack?

[seeandsee]

who said oil?

[femdomdestiny]

Originally Posted by scottybuzz

morons like you moan when the usa does nothing and you moan when they do something. just stfu

Everyday I learn something new. Until now, I was thinking that people listening to Daft Punk are cool people, with at least, some education. Anyway, it is waste of time getting involved in discussions like this. If you want to find out what is going on and why it is going on, you have a chance. If you want to stay dumb and and brainwashed, that's also a choice. It's up to you.

[V_RocKs]

We long for colonial times...

[Lucy - CSC]

Originally Posted by Rochard

Most of us live in the civilized world where these kinds of things are horrible crimes. In some countries it's a way of life.

This is a country where an entire government and it's military was overthrown by it's people, and I'm guessing there is a lot of lawlessness going on. After decades of being ruled by one family, there is going to be some pay back against the regime.

Good god you are a moron. Did you notice in the footage of Libya being 'liberated' all the Libyans drove round in top of the range cars? The country was overthrown by its people but by a bunch of savages who were paid mercenaries.

http://www.infowars.com/as-expected-...rces-revealed/

They were the same people previously paid to dress up and pretend to be Al-Queada and fight against American troops.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...eda-links.html

Libyas form of Democracy actually gave everyone a voice.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gre..._al-Gaddafi%29

[dazzling]

Originally Posted by Lucy - CSC

If you actually read up on what the democracy was like in Libya when Gadafi was there it was exactly how you described as a true democracy.

Agreed, Libya had one of the best democracies in the world and one of the highest standards of living also. I made three trips to the country over the last 10 years and was very impressed. Free hospitals, free dental, free education, a bonus to newly married couples to buy a new home and the list goes on. I am perplexed at how easy people are brainwashed by the media in Western countries. It is like they have zero brain cells.

[Fletch XXX]

Originally Posted by Lucy - CSC

The country was overthrown by its people but by a bunch of savages who were paid mercenaries.

how is this different from us paying mercs to go invade areas for us? If the US does it, everyone does LOL all soldiers are paid, they get paid to kill because they mostly cant find a job so they join military.

[femdomdestiny]

Originally Posted by dazzling

Agreed, Libya had one of the best democracies in the world and one of the highest standards of living also. I made three trips to the country over the last 10 years and was very impressed. Free hospitals, free dental, free education, a bonus to newly married couples to buy a new home and the list goes on. I am perplexed at how easy people are brainwashed by the media in Western countries. It is like they have zero brain cells.

Just but because of all that,it is a threat to capitalistic system. Just imagine what would happen if people around the globe would see that there other and much more human system available to them except capitalism. So, it is best to make that country and they way of life look bad and evil and that's exactly scenario already seen dozen of times,and it is , as you can see, working very well.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=RuCC2GA9RHc

My friend just recently came from Iran. It is completely different then what we hear on tv and news.

[J. Falcon]

Originally Posted by dazzling

Agreed, Libya had one of the best democracies in the world and one of the highest standards of living also. I made three trips to the country over the last 10 years and was very impressed. Free hospitals, free dental, free education, a bonus to newly married couples to buy a new home and the list goes on. I am perplexed at how easy people are brainwashed by the media in Western countries. It is like they have zero brain cells.

Please, please, please post some proof of all this.

[Lucy - CSC]

These kids deserved to die for the oil..



The truth about Libya



Pro Gaddafi Rally

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

The end of World War II in "civilized" Europe was rather messy and the end of the Civil War in the USA was years to a real cessation of hostilities.

It takes time to rebuild a civil infrastructure when the "old guard" is defeated.

I was gonna say something very similar. Right now I'm reading a book about Hilter's last days, and it goes into a lot of detail about what was happening in Berlin and Germany at that time. Pretty much at that point the very concept of law no longer existed. Not much different in Libya right now. In fact, the fighting hasn't stopped.

[sperbonzo]

Just to point something out. Not one of you has railed against Obama in this thread having done this without a vote in congress, meanwhile Bush was constantly named when he stared a war WITH a full vote in congress. I have come to the conclusion that Iraq was wrong, but I still find the contrast in the lack of flack that people on this board are giving Obama about this Lybian war interesting.

Just sayin'. Carry on


.

[DudeRick]

Originally Posted by sperbonzo

Just to point something out. Not one of you has railed against Obama in this thread having done this without a vote in congress, meanwhile Bush was constantly named when he stared a war WITH a full vote in congress. I have come to the conclusion that Iraq was wrong, but I still find the contrast in the lack of flack that people on this board are giving Obama about this Lybian war interesting.

Just sayin'. Carry on
.

And they gave him the The Nobel Peace Prize!

[directfiesta]

Originally Posted by sperbonzo

Just to point something out. Not one of you has railed against Obama in this thread having done this without a vote in congress, meanwhile Bush was constantly named when he stared a war WITH a full vote in congress. I have come to the conclusion that Iraq was wrong, but I still find the contrast in the lack of flack that people on this board are giving Obama about this Lybian war interesting.

Just sayin'. Carry on


.

Agreed ... but I did not want to be labelled " You hate America " , so I did some hating on my own country that is very very active in the " protection of the poor civilians " in Libya ...

As for Obama, one word sums it up : deception !

[femdomdestiny]

Originally Posted by DudeRick

And they gave him the The Nobel Peace Prize!

Yes, like it was given to Martti Ahtisaari (nobel peace prize) who took bribe from Albanian mafia for forcing his plan and heloing Kosovo "independance".


"The Finnish News Agency, STT, published on June 26 and June 27, 2007, two articles stating that the UN Special Envoy for Kosovo was ?bought? by the Albanian mafia in order to support independence for Kosovo. The STT articles reported that the information was initially published by the Banja Luka Daily Fokus on June 21, 2007, entitled ?Albanian Mafia Bought Ahtisaari?.

The GIS/Defense & Foreign Affairs station in south-eastern Europe has conducted research in the Balkans and from secure sources it was revealed that the BND report does indeed exist, and that the information contained is not ?Serbian fiction? but a reality."

[Shotsie]

Originally Posted by Captain Kawaii

Western powers have kept the middle east 1000 years behind the times for a reason...CONTROL.

What has kept the middle east in a state of arrested development - which most middle east sympathizers won't admit - is Islam. Winston Churchill summed it up pretty nicely in 1899:

How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property ? either as a child, a wife, or a concubine ? must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the Queen: all know how to die but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by sperbonzo

Just to point something out. Not one of you has railed against Obama in this thread having done this without a vote in congress, meanwhile Bush was constantly named when he stared a war WITH a full vote in congress. I have come to the conclusion that Iraq was wrong, but I still find the contrast in the lack of flack that people on this board are giving Obama about this Lybian war interesting.

Just sayin'. Carry on


.

I think we did have a huge discussion about this when it first went down.

I believe that the President of the United States - be it Bush or Obama - can order the military to do whatever it wants short of war. I don't believe our actions in Libya required discussion with Congress at all. We engaged in a military operation, not invaded a country.

[sperbonzo]

Under the constitution he can do so if there is imminent threat, i.e. something that can't wait for a vote. Was that the case here? And if this was not a war, if another country came flying into your airspace, over your town, and started shooting down your planes and bombing you, would you say "hey, it's not war, they haven't invaded us yet!". ?

[directfiesta]

Sirte residents accuse Libya fighters of looting
People returning to Gadhafi's hometown say NTC troops are taking revenge
....
Inspecting the damage to her house, she said that Sirte would never go back to how it used to be. "There is no security here anymore," she told Reuters.
...
"Are you coming to liberate the city or to steal from it?" said Ahmed, another resident, inside his house. "If I knew this would happen I would not have left. I would have stayed and fought for my house."
...
They found almost every house and building either damaged by a rocket or mortar, burned out or riddled with bullets. Water floods the streets and the city's infrastructure is in tatters.
...
'We want Moammar'
"What's happening in Sirte is revenge not liberation. When someone comes and takes your personal car and destroys your home, this is not liberation," said Abu Anas, a Sirte resident who returned to his house to pick up belongings and found that it had been looted.

"What are they liberating us from? We want Moammar," shouted another female resident standing nearby as other locals gathered, each loudly lambasting the new government.

"Some revolutionaries passed by us when we were sitting outside the house and told us 'wait, you didn't see anything yet'," Mohammed, another Sirte resident said.

NTC fighters say they are only checking houses for weapons being used by pro-Gadhafi forces.

But Reuters reporters saw many of them roaming the streets of Sirte with chairs, tires and computers on the backs of their pickup trucks. Brand new BMW and Toyota cars were seen being driven away by the fighters and being towed outside of the city.

One fighter tried to push a white Porsche car up a street as another drove a looted beach buggy nearby.

In another incident witnessed by Reuters, a group of fighters fired machine guns at an iron safe in an electronics shop. After 15 minutes of shooting, during which they considered trying a hand grenade, they finally opened it. It was empty.
...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44923548...east_n_africa/

Wionder if NATO will impose a " no-fly zone" to " protect" these civilians .....

[blazin]

It's genocide sponsored by and in part... commited by the west.... the black africans there have been systematically rounded up and killed by the Libya rebels. It's been going on for months and gets pretty much no press.