Is the US Declaration of Independence illegal? - GoFuckYourself.com

DVTimes · 10-20-2011, 05:41 AM

In Philadelphia, American and British lawyers have debated the legality of America's founding documents.

On Tuesday night, while Republican candidates in Nevada were debating such American issues as nuclear waste disposal and the immigration status of Mitt Romney's gardener, American and British lawyers in Philadelphia were taking on a far more fundamental topic.

Namely, just what did Thomas Jefferson think he was doing?

Some background: during the hot and sweltering summer of 1776, members of the second Continental Congress travelled to Philadelphia to discuss their frustration with royal rule.

By 4 July, America's founding fathers approved a simple document penned by Jefferson that enumerated their grievances and announced themselves a sovereign nation.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15345511

candyflip · 10-20-2011, 07:06 AM

The Declaration of Independence is just that, a declaration. What difference does it make it it's legal or not?

J. Falcon · 10-20-2011, 07:15 AM

I'm sure that in the eyes of the Brits it was illegal.

ClickCastX · 10-20-2011, 07:43 AM

I know I'm in the minority here but are there more pressing things these lawyers can do than bicker about the past?

spazlabz · 10-20-2011, 07:46 AM

Victory made it legal

DVTimes · 10-20-2011, 07:53 AM

its good news.

it could be we (the brits) may still run the usa.

so we want it back.

put it this way, you lot messed it up once you took it over.

so if we get it back we can fix everything.

TheSquealer · 10-20-2011, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DVTimes

its good news.

it could be we (the brits) may still run the usa.

so we want it back.

put it this way, you lot messed it up once you took it over.

so if we get it back we can fix everything.

I like your reasoning. I'm sure everyone in the US will happily turn over the reigns to the Queen without much fuss. Good luck announcing to Alaskans, Texans and idiots from Kentucky and so on, that they have a new Queen. You'll figure it out though because you are super smart!

Thank God we stopped the Nazi's from bombing you into oblivion so you'd have that chance to show the worlds largest economy how to "do it right".

Harmon · 10-20-2011, 08:11 AM

Kill yourself

Rochard · 10-20-2011, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DVTimes

its good news.

it could be we (the brits) may still run the usa.

so we want it back.

put it this way, you lot messed it up once you took it over.

so if we get it back we can fix everything.

The Declaration of Independence was just that - a declaration. Technically, you could look at the founding fathers as terrorists. They went up against their government.

However, if the UK wants their land back they are welcome to come and get it. Just keep in mind there is a huge difference between the US and Argentina.

TheSquealer · 10-20-2011, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

The Declaration of Independence was just that - a declaration. Technically, you could look at the founding fathers as terrorists. They went up against their government.

However, if the UK wants their land back they are welcome to come and get it. Just keep in mind there is a huge difference between the US and Argentina.

Thats not terrorism, its treason. Huge difference.

TheDoc · 10-20-2011, 08:25 AM

Did the lawyers look to see if it was legal to claim land that was already taken well before the British arrived?

roly · 10-20-2011, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

Thank God we stopped the Nazi's from bombing you into oblivion .

The British airforce did that (winning the battle of britain) before the US had even entered the war.

sperbonzo · 10-20-2011, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Did the lawyers look to see if it was legal to claim land that was already taken well before the British arrived?

LOL! EXACTLY! This is so funny. EVERY country in the world now in existence was created by one group of people conquering another. In the end, the ones who won the fight, created the country.

.

vsex · 10-20-2011, 08:28 AM

We kicked their ass back to England. Nuff' said.

TheSquealer · 10-20-2011, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roly

The British airforce did that (winning the battle of britain) before the US had even entered the war.

Britain was on its knees without support, supplies and oil, all before the US had entered the war as well.

roly · 10-20-2011, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

Britain was on its knees without support, supplies and oil, all before the US had entered the war as well.

i.e. before you entered the war you were a shop keeper charging extorniate prices, it was the bravery of british (and some other country's) pilots that "stopped the Nazi's from bombing the UK into oblivion".

TheDoc · 10-20-2011, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sperbonzo

LOL! EXACTLY! This is so funny. EVERY country in the world now in existence was created by one group of people conquering another. In the end, the ones who won the fight, created the country.

.

So true... the claim they're making is just laughable. Even in the same time-period, it wasn't the Brits that discovered or colonized it. If anything, about that period of time like 5 or 6 different countries claimed ownership of territories. That's if we ignore the fact that we had cities setup in America, some 500-1000 years before the British claimed anything.

They got beat down for trying to take over and profit, from something they didn't actually own.... which appears to be a factor the lawyers ignore.

My guess is the real issue is they're pissed off about being stuck with Canada...

TheSquealer · 10-20-2011, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roly

i.e. before you entered the war you were a shop keeper charging extorniate prices, it was the bravery of british (and some other country's) pilots that "stopped the Nazi's from bombing the UK into oblivion".

I don't disagree with that and there is really nothing to be gained or learned by a silly point/counterpoint about undeniable or indisputable facts. I was commenting more on the trademark stupidity of DVDtimes. London sacrificed a lot. Lot of people were brave. Lot of people died. Lot of innocent people were killed. Defeating the Nazi's involved the bravery and sacrifice of a lot of people... etc... etc. You can't say that Britain had them beat. US can't say that it was the primary cause of their defeat.

And "before we entered the war" - we were giving what we had to give. The cost of that "extortion" as you'd like to put it was the loss of 1:26 merchant marine sailors trying to supply Britain and a loss of over 30 ships per week and over 1000 ships sank in 1942 alone, trying to supply Britain to aid their efforts.

So you should keep a little perspective on sacrifice and bravery, just as much as I should.

sperbonzo · 10-20-2011, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

My guess is the real issue is they're pissed off about being stuck with Canada...

.

roly · 10-20-2011, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

I don't disagree with that and there is really nothing to be gained or learned by a silly point/counterpoint about undeniable or indisputable facts. I was commenting more on the trademark stupidity of DVDtimes. London sacrificed a lot. Lot of people were brave. Lot of people died. Lot of innocent people were killed. Defeating the Nazi's involved the bravery and sacrifice of a lot of people... etc... etc. You can't say that Britain had them beat. US can't say that it was the primary cause of their defeat.

And "before we entered the war" - we were giving what we had to give. The cost of that "extortion" as you'd like to put it was the loss of 1:26 merchant marine sailors trying to supply Britain and a loss of over 30 ships per week and over 1000 ships sank in 1942 alone, trying to supply Britain to aid their efforts.

So you should keep a little perspective on sacrifice and bravery, just as much as I should.

Vendzilla · 10-20-2011, 09:53 AM

Lets just settle this like gentlemen, we'll send over all the texans with guns we have , I mean just the civilians, and wipe out your population. We'll tell the Texans they get to keep what they want. Don't offer them any fish and chips, they like BBQ.

The whole thing is mute considering the Treaty of Paris in 1783

ad1983 · 10-20-2011, 10:09 AM

If I had two wishes, one would definitely go towards bringing Thomas Jefferson back to life and fix this mess we're in.

"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation then by deflation, the banks and the corporations will grow up around them, will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs."

"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies."

"I wish it were possible to obtain a single amendment to our constitution - taking from the federal government their power of borrowing."

-Thomas Jefferson

GatorB · 10-20-2011, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spazlabz

Victory made it legal

Yep. If the south had won the Civil War secession would have been legal. Sometimes I wonder if it wouldn't have been better if they had. Then the rest of the normal people in the US wouldn't have to deal with those idiots.

Rochard · 10-20-2011, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

Thats not terrorism, its treason. Huge difference.

Huge difference or a fine line?

When the "rebels" in Libya started fighting their government, was it treason or terrorism? Was breaking into a ship and tossing over crates of tea terrorism, treason, or just a simple criminal act?

TheSquealer · 10-20-2011, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

Huge difference or a fine line?

When the "rebels" in Libya started fighting their government, was it treason or terrorism? Was breaking into a ship and tossing over crates of tea terrorism, treason, or just a simple criminal act?

Semantics and philosophy aside, both words have always had definitions. You can look them up if you're still unclear.

pornmasta · 10-20-2011, 11:55 AM

independance is a fact, not a declaration

ad1983 · 10-20-2011, 12:28 PM

Of course it was "illegal", just like every other secession that ever took place in history probably violated some type of basic constitutional law of the original union. That's why armies exist and why wars are fought. At the end of the day what defines a nation's borders is how well the people behind it can defend it and whether or not other nations are willing to recognize it. Technically the Brits don't have to recognize the US if they didn't want to, and if they wanted to go to war they are free to try, but obviously that's not going to be a smart move. In fact we have examples like Kosovo today where some nations recognize it, and some don't, despite attempts of secession from Serbia violating the country's laws.

But really who gives a shit? At the end of the day what happened was a good thing as it laid down the framework of what became the greatest nation ever and an example for other nations to follow. The big question here is why and how Americans slowly but surely gave up everything their forefathers fought for? The America now is not even a shell of its former self. "Just what did Thomas Jefferson think he was doing?" the writer asks in the actual link to the article... well all I know is if the "leaders" of the nation after him thought more like him I'm sure we wouldn't be seeing the types of problems we're seeing today.

papill0n · 10-20-2011, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DVTimes

its good news.

it could be we (the brits) may still run the usa.

so we want it back.

put it this way, you lot messed it up once you took it over.

so if we get it back we can fix everything.

I love how you use the word 'we' like you would somehow be involved in anything more complicated than digging a hole

roly · 10-20-2011, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

Lets just settle this like gentlemen, we'll send over all the texans with guns we have , I mean just the civilians, and wipe out your population. We'll tell the Texans they get to keep what they want. Don't offer them any fish and chips, they like BBQ.

but could your average texan find europe on the map let alone the UK?

spazlabz · 10-20-2011, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

Huge difference or a fine line?

When the "rebels" in Libya started fighting their government, was it treason or terrorism? Was breaking into a ship and tossing over crates of tea terrorism, treason, or just a simple criminal act?

one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist so both, huge difference and a fine line

pornmasta · 10-20-2011, 01:09 PM

troll mode: on

So israel is legal just because they are stronger.

troll mode: off

VikingMan · 10-20-2011, 01:09 PM

might makes right

pornmasta · 10-20-2011, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *******

might makes right

Sure, as long as you win, everything is ok

DaddyHalbucks · 10-20-2011, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spazlabz

Victory made it legal

Might made right?

Au contraire, its IDEALS made it legal.

moeloubani · 10-20-2011, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

I like your reasoning. I'm sure everyone in the US will happily turn over the reigns to the Queen without much fuss. Good luck announcing to Alaskans, Texans and idiots from Kentucky and so on, that they have a new Queen. You'll figure it out though because you are super smart!

Thank God we stopped the Nazi's from bombing you into oblivion so you'd have that chance to show the worlds largest economy how to "do it right".

Who stopped the Nazis? Are you Russian? If not you shouldn't be thanking God, you should thank the Russians that THEY stopped the Nazis. America's claim to fame in WWII was the world largest terrorist attacks, the two nuclear weapons dropped to terrorize Japan and its people (as well as kill several hundred thousand of them) into surrendering the war.

crockett · 10-20-2011, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spazlabz

Victory made it legal

This for the most part.

epitome · 10-20-2011, 02:07 PM

Your police don't even have guns.

We are gangstas.

Try us.

TheSquealer · 10-20-2011, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moeloubani

Who stopped the Nazis? Are you Russian? If not you shouldn't be thanking God, you should thank the Russians that THEY stopped the Nazis. America's claim to fame in WWII was the world largest terrorist attacks, the two nuclear weapons dropped to terrorize Japan and its people (as well as kill several hundred thousand of them) into surrendering the war.

You're right. I forget Stalins contribution of forcing unarmed kids to charge German machine gun positions until they ran out of bullets. I'm so surpsrised that tactic wasn't widely adopted given it's effectiveness at forcing the enemy to fatigue their trigger fingers.

Russia... the only nation on earth that celebrates the death of 10's of millions of its own people as "Victory Day"

_Richard_ · 10-20-2011, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *******

might makes right

that has been the running theme for every civilization out there

yet they all fall

10-20-2011, 05:41 AM	#1
DVTimes xxx Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: UK Posts: 31,547	Is the US Declaration of Independence illegal? In Philadelphia, American and British lawyers have debated the legality of America's founding documents. On Tuesday night, while Republican candidates in Nevada were debating such American issues as nuclear waste disposal and the immigration status of Mitt Romney's gardener, American and British lawyers in Philadelphia were taking on a far more fundamental topic. Namely, just what did Thomas Jefferson think he was doing? Some background: during the hot and sweltering summer of 1776, members of the second Continental Congress travelled to Philadelphia to discuss their frustration with royal rule. By 4 July, America's founding fathers approved a simple document penned by Jefferson that enumerated their grievances and announced themselves a sovereign nation. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15345511 __________________ The Affiliate Program

10-20-2011, 07:06 AM	#2
candyflip Carpe Visio Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: New York Posts: 43,064	The Declaration of Independence is just that, a declaration. What difference does it make it it's legal or not? __________________ Spend you some brain. Email Me

10-20-2011, 07:15 AM	#3
J. Falcon www.AdultCopywriters.com Industry Role: Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 31,618	I'm sure that in the eyes of the Brits it was illegal. __________________ Adult Copywriters SEO Content for Porn Sites sales at adultcopywriters dot com

10-20-2011, 07:43 AM	#4
ClickCastX X10 Revenue Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 405	I know I'm in the minority here but are there more pressing things these lawyers can do than bicker about the past? __________________ https://www.x10revenue.com [email protected] skype: vod.support

10-20-2011, 07:53 AM	#6
DVTimes xxx Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: UK Posts: 31,547	its good news. it could be we (the brits) may still run the usa. so we want it back. put it this way, you lot messed it up once you took it over. so if we get it back we can fix everything. __________________ The Affiliate Program

10-20-2011, 07:46 AM	#5
spazlabz Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Kentucky Posts: 6,548	Victory made it legal

10-20-2011, 08:11 AM	#8
Harmon ( ͡ʘ╭͜ʖ╮͡ʘ) Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 20,010	Kill yourself __________________ [email protected]

10-20-2011, 08:25 AM	#11
TheDoc Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Currently Incognito Posts: 13,827	Did the lawyers look to see if it was legal to claim land that was already taken well before the British arrived? __________________ ~TheDoc - ICQ7765825 It's all disambiguation

10-20-2011, 08:28 AM	#14
vsex Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: East and West Coast Beaches Posts: 1,277	We kicked their ass back to England. Nuff' said. __________________ VSEX.COM AFFILIATES [email protected] New Model Signup Most realistic thing ever written on GFY: Shap: "Solidarity is nice in theory but this industry has proven time and time again it can not stand together. The best advice I can give you is to do what is best for you with both your short term and long term goals in mind."

10-20-2011, 09:53 AM	#21
Vendzilla Biker Gnome Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: cell#324 Posts: 23,200	Lets just settle this like gentlemen, we'll send over all the texans with guns we have , I mean just the civilians, and wipe out your population. We'll tell the Texans they get to keep what they want. Don't offer them any fish and chips, they like BBQ. The whole thing is mute considering the Treaty of Paris in 1783 __________________ Webair died? Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants think about that

10-20-2011, 10:09 AM	#22
ad1983 Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 30	If I had two wishes, one would definitely go towards bringing Thomas Jefferson back to life and fix this mess we're in. "If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation then by deflation, the banks and the corporations will grow up around them, will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs." "I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies." "I wish it were possible to obtain a single amendment to our constitution - taking from the federal government their power of borrowing." -Thomas Jefferson

10-20-2011, 11:55 AM	#26
pornmasta Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 19,282	independance is a fact, not a declaration

10-20-2011, 12:28 PM	#27
ad1983 Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 30	Of course it was "illegal", just like every other secession that ever took place in history probably violated some type of basic constitutional law of the original union. That's why armies exist and why wars are fought. At the end of the day what defines a nation's borders is how well the people behind it can defend it and whether or not other nations are willing to recognize it. Technically the Brits don't have to recognize the US if they didn't want to, and if they wanted to go to war they are free to try, but obviously that's not going to be a smart move. In fact we have examples like Kosovo today where some nations recognize it, and some don't, despite attempts of secession from Serbia violating the country's laws. But really who gives a shit? At the end of the day what happened was a good thing as it laid down the framework of what became the greatest nation ever and an example for other nations to follow. The big question here is why and how Americans slowly but surely gave up everything their forefathers fought for? The America now is not even a shell of its former self. "Just what did Thomas Jefferson think he was doing?" the writer asks in the actual link to the article... well all I know is if the "leaders" of the nation after him thought more like him I'm sure we wouldn't be seeing the types of problems we're seeing today. Last edited by ad1983; 10-20-2011 at 12:37 PM..

10-20-2011, 01:09 PM	#31
pornmasta Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 19,282	troll mode: on So israel is legal just because they are stronger. troll mode: off

10-20-2011, 01:09 PM	#32
VikingMan Exploiting human weakness Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: next to a salmon stream Posts: 6,570	might makes right

10-20-2011, 02:07 PM	#37
epitome So Fucking Lame Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: St. Petersburg, FL Posts: 12,156	Your police don't even have guns. We are gangstas. Try us.