raymor

The PM haters are instant to me because I see two sides. On the hand, I've worked with Paul enough to know he brings in some cash, and he's been doing so for a long time, so it works be wise to listen to what he has to say. On the other hand, some of his posts do seem to be pure trolling.

What I don't understand is putting a lot of fine and energy into hating on some guy on a message board. Do the haters not have anything better to do? Do they not have a business to run?

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Paul Markham

I don't think many thought their actions would bring this effect to the porn industry. The just thought it was easy to get in, throw traffic at a site or mediocre porn, make a quick fortune and get out. For some it was easy, for most because the bar of entry was so low, it became very hard.

And there's the reason for the demise. When a herd gets weak, it endangers the whole herd.

Even with designers. to be a good designer in this business you need to be a good salesman, need to know how to target customers, what turns them on, etc. Not use Photoshop. To be a good porn shooter, you need more skills than photography and a good camera. To sell porn well enough to make a living, you need a lot more than traffic. did you understand that Fris?

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fris

Who says you need a lot more than traffic? If you can send 50-60 signups a day, why would you need anything else?

The things you say like its easy to get traffic is kind of pointless coming from you, since you dont have the traffic of any other people.

You can speak of the content production side, but the other methods you cant, you can only speculate.

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Paul Markham

Few products are one off buys. The companies selling them don't want something a customer will buy once or twice and then never. Repeat selling to the same customer is often the key to success.

so a company will look at it's customers needs, likes and dislikes, etc. Then design a product to meet those needs. Trying to make it as hard as possible for others to duplicate. Because they know the bast sales figures come to those who produce the best sales over and over again with the least effort.

A Fizzy drink of Burger company can spend a fortune on marketing to get a one off sale, getting the buyer to buy again depends on customer satisfaction. And the lack or number of the competition.

Some in porn did this, Wicked, Vivid, Evil Angel, Private and many more. A few did this in online porn. Met Art, Perfect Gonzo, etc.

You can draw your own conclusions to this.

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Roald

Just wondering who you think are in the etc part.

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Paul Markham

Well that's the point where though right in the actual wording. Wrong in this context.

Anyone could be a Met-Art or FTV Girls, given the their "marketing" skills.

What is it that really separates them and a few more from 100s to 1,000s of sites who try to be them or just in the same niche?

Design, programing, hosting? Good designers, programmers, hosting are relatively easy and an occasional purchase. Then just paying them on a continual basis.

"Marketing". Well some have this skill, but are these sites really that far ahead in these categories, as they are in sales?

Product. And here you have what separates these guys from the rest. The product is on a different level and try as hard as they might ATK, Karups, Mofos, Twistys, etc. Can't with their present model get up there. (Yes I linked this to the bro Shap.)

Because they simply would not or could not not compete with others for the producers of that level of content. Were these people available for hire? Yes, money will buy anything your heart desires. I'm not going to mention more names, but offline porn until recently paid more to shooters than online porn and that's all that really separates the top tier sites from those trying to get their.

A studio in Brno, who were regular magazines set producers, were never offered enough to move from magazines to a program. and this is repeated over and over again ntil you reach a rare few.

So Nicky, if sponsors had the money and business skills, in 1998-today. They would of hired a shooter with the skills and created a site in a mainstream niche, 1,000s of others couldn't duplicate by picking up a camera and pointing it a naked girl. They don't, they would prefer to pay peanuts for the product and pay affiliates to throw loads traffic at it. Trying to produce something that puts them in the top tier for some reason isn't being done.

So not everyone can be a Met-Art or FTV Girls. Because not everyone has the money and the sense.

Are you an affiliates or owner of Euro Revenue?

When I met Roald it was at the bar of the bar the convention was held in. I bought a bottle of water and poured it into my red water bottle, to sip while I was there. so explained I needed to constantly sip water because of my dry mouth. Took 2-3 minutes. He was busy chatting to his friend and I have little reason to chat to him. Even abut my dry mouth.

Yes I keep banging on about the same mistakes this industry has made and continues to make. Like you keep banging on about traffic. LOL

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Roald

No no, you are the one going on about the mistakes AND about traffic. Im just replying to it ;)


So again, who do you think are in the etc part? We got FTV and Met-Art but who else? Honest question since im just curious to see how our ratios are with them. Yes I know our traffic is probably garbage but I still would like to see.

Thanks

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porno jew

tastes change. right now people like girl next door amateurs. shit you can shoot with a disposable camera. that costs nothing.

fuck i hate your stupid theories.

fris

thats all they are is theories.

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Nicky

O jeebus. Anyway I have been an affiliate since 1999, I don't own ER, I am the marketing/sales guy/project manager for them. Oh btw traffic and a decent landing page is all you need.

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Paul Markham

And that's how easy it is to get the content from the top level.

In fact it could be even easier. Especially with solo girl. If the sponsors with so much money to spend, because we all know how big online porn is r was. They could of approached the shooters supplying the magazines with sets and said, I will pay you $300 to what ever. For the semi exclusive license, you can't sell it online to other online companies, to put your content online in my site. I will need a video with it. Stipulating any other requirements of course. We would of been interested, not at $300 because the store sales made a lot more.

So instead of getting content from shooters who couldn't get into the top tier, you get the top tier shooters content. As we all know offline never got the Internet, so their sales were no threat.

Or as offline had no clue and online was making so much money. Just go into the offices of the offline companies and lay the cash down. Much like Manwin is doing today when the business has shrunk and offline is dead. They could of even gone into the companies and offered a deal just for online, for less money.

Roald, the etc are the companies who convert and retain better than the rest, that don't have a dozen or more sites that all look similar competing with them. Look at your stats for the companies. Seriously, I know where you're going with this. Give me some credence.

Yes Fris it's all theory, who would of dreamed that members stay members longer or even become members on the strength of the content.

Yes Nicky all you need is a landing page and traffic. Maybe that's because that's the level of your expertise. Some might go higher and think the level of the content on the page and inside the sites effects the revenue. Just a theory.

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Nicky

I'm just fucking with you Paul, the more you say traffic is easy and content is everything the more I will say traffic is everything. I'm like a 4 year old

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Roald

Ok so you dont know the etc. Thats too bad really as i was truly interested to see what you think converts ;)))

papill0n

Paul Markham

This industry has always had a different mindset to buying content than getting the best. If some had adopted the approach it did with traffic, they might be in a better position these days.

Buying the product is usually about getting the best price and not the best product. Rather than offer the good shooters what they wanted to produce for them. They went out and bought 5 scenes for $1200 to $2500. Even Manwin paying $2,000 for 3 scenes isn't going to pull over a shooter who can sell one scene non exclusive for $3,000.

Most got people who couldn't shoot to the level of the magazines. Yes I know it's all about video, but most magazines shooters know how to shoot decent videos. It's not as if they got the top video shooters either. They got what they paid for.

Now it's all theory. Still if a TGP, Tube, sample on a blog or any other means of getting traffic. It's got a better chance of getting the surfer to click the banner. If when the surfer lands on the sites the content on the tour is of a better quality than the rest of the sites in that niche. Its got a better chance of converting. If once the member is inside the site the content is better than other sites, retention is longer, the chances are the surfer will return.

So Nicky with just your traffic and landing page. You might convert 10% 0r 50% better. You might retain 10% 0r 50% better. Not just you, but most affiliates sending traffic to that site.

Anyone got a theory about lousy content converting and retaining better than good?

And please, not good in "Penthouse or Playboy" style.

And OP this is why the trolls and losers hate me. They don't have a logical answer.

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papill0n

keep up the good work buddy we can all see how far that is getting you

Paul Markham

No Roald.

I know the moment you see them you can come back with the answer they don't do so well.

Give me some credence please, didn't start in business yesterday.

OK Nicky. If you ever want some constructive comments on any of your sites I'm here.

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papill0n

.

Roald

Ok you got me.

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Nicky

Well hello there captain obvious

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MaDalton

http://mydirtyhobby.com/

crappy content and making more money per day than you (or me) in your best month (or even year)

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Roald

That one doesnt count

AsianDivaGirlsWebDude

You go Paul...to the top!!!

ADG

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anexsia

Yup, right now you don't even need content shooters with the amateur or exgf niches. No fancy lighting, no bitchy content shooters, no expert camera work...get some disposable cameras and have the right business attitude and you can make bank.

Peace

grateful people are here. nice to know. Come to my grateful content store after you finish thanking each other.

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xholly

its the pussy that sells porn

xholly

hope the guys ok but

ReggieDurango

Just Alex

Paul > Jesus

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papill0n

paul just rambling on and on and on and on and fucking onnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

loves the sound of his own voice

loves to read his own posts

stupid cunt probably beats off to both

Paul Markham

Yes it is, so why did so few sites go this route? I can only think of two reasons couldn't afford it or didn't have a clue.

The couldn't afford it route is probably the most obvious, few sites could pay enough for a model to go exclusive, could afford to spend what other sectors of the porn business were spending for the product.

On the other hand, there's still the idiots who think all you need is a naked girl and a mobile phone to crate porn and make bank. Problem is 100s of other sites can do the same. How many can do what Shap does, how many can do what Met-Art does.

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BAKO

I learned everything from Paul

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Paul Markham

Well thank you for comparing apples to cows.

Did that site make as much as Twistys, FTV, Met-Art. If you want to compare like with like.

Obviously you're in favor of the system. As a shooter who could never of operated at the better paying levels of porn and would of gone bankrupt long before you or your partner learned how to shoot porn. You had to sell to people buying on on price.So te system was good for you.

Yes Roald it does count. Just compare it with a paysite not a shooter who also put up a site. There are amateur sites that make very good money. but the idea that some guy can pick up a camera and capture the emotion and atmosphere the girls boyfriend will get from a girl who doesn't know him, might not like hi, only there for the money, done it a few times before and doesn't always care if it's good. Is also wrong. It takes more than a camera and naked girl to create good porn.

All it takes to get traffic, is a computer and connection, all it takes to be a designer is a computer and Photoshop, etc. A bit of skill also helps.

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papill0n

This kind of industry has usually a various attitude to buying content compared to having the best. When a few experienced implemented the method the idea does using site visitors, they may be inside a stronger position nowadays.

Acquiring the technique is typically about having the best cost instead of the best item. Instead of provide good photographers whatever they wished to create on their behalf. These people recently purchased A few displays with regard to $1200 in order to $2500. Actually Manwin having to pay $2,500 pertaining to 3 displays isn't going to take on the shooting who are able to promote one particular arena low exclusive regarding $3,Thousand.

Most got people that would not take to the level of the publications. Yes I understand is going on video clip, most mags first person shooters understand how to blast decent video clips. It is not as whenever they acquired the top video clip fps possibly. They got what they covered.

Right now means that concept. Nonetheless if a TGP, Conduit, sample on the website or any other means of visitors. It has an improved chance to getting the particular reader to go through the hysterical. When when the web surfer arrives at web sites the information on the trip will be of a better compared to other internet sites in this area of interest. It has an improved chance involving converting. In the event that as soon as the member can be in the site the content is preferable to some other web sites, storage is lengthier, the chances are the surfer may return.

Consequently Nicky with just your own traffic along with squeeze page. You might turn 10% 0r 50% greater. You could possibly maintain 10% 0r 50% better. Not just a person, but many affiliate marketers mailing people to that site.

Any person received any concept concerning poor written content converting along with holding onto superior to excellent?

And also make sure you, bad inside "Penthouse or even Playboy" type.

And OP this is the reason the particular trolls along with losers detest us. They do not use a rational reply.

DamianJ

What's funny is how few views they have. Even after all this time.

NewNick

My wolf shirt cured my aids.

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Paul Markham

there's a place in porn for amateur work, always has been and always will be. We made a lot of money from it and I started out shooting it. Astral Blue could never be called "professional glam".

Still it takes more than a girl and a camera to shoot good amateur porn. It needs someone who can generate the same emotions, athmosphere and performance from a paid model who's often a stranger. That a partner would generate. Or even the same emotions, athmosphere and performance from a paid model pretending to be shooting it for her BF.

If a shooter can do that, his content rises to the next level.

Where there's less competition. Because as you say you don't need anything else, like all the rest scrambling to get a slice of the same market. The higher you go the less the competition. smaller market maybe, but more customers per supplier = more $$$$

Assuming you can reach that level. and here's the real problem. Very few could. Which was great for those who did.

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Paul Markham

Yes they do seem to have single track outlooks. Usually coming up with abuse or stupid comparisons rather than debating the actual subject. My view will never change. Skills on all the levels will pay the best returns.

Skills at designing, traffic, selling, producing, programming, porn, marketing, etc. Even emailing. Will always produce the best results.

The throw it at the wall approach is for the less skilled.

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Paul Markham

Of course Anexia is spot on with this. And still in this niche magazines out payed porn sites.

Shoot 30-40 stills of a girl, get the documents and sell them to magazines as "Readers Wives" which was the Exgf of it's time. Same thing really, just a new name. no video, no outright sale and it was very possible to earn $600 a "set" Selling it in the UK and in the US. Then putting it on your Exgf site. Or selling it to one.

Do a casting in Prague, get 10 girls to turn up with documents. And make $6,000 turn over for a cost of $500. Plus the chance of picking up a new cute one that's worth $6,000 for two sets. And many days work.

The prices I've heard for Exgf custom is $150 to $200 outright for a set and a video.

Yes I know the magazines are dead. Yet we were still doing this in 2008. What custom shooter was. In fact how many custom shooters make $5000 a day for turning out amateur stuff on a regular basis?

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MaDalton

hehe - you are the one who keeps mixing novelties into porn - now a homemade porn site cannot be compared?

We had 2 very early clients btw - Karups and Twistys. You have no idea how many sets we shot for Twistys in 2004/2005 - without them we would have never learned how to shoot properly and we would have never survived that time. Thanks Shap and Beth

but we also invested money in our own content and in the shop instead of looking for short term profit - and voilá, we're in 2012 and doing better than ever. And i am not kidding.

what separates us both is that you keep thinking a name or skill has something to do with porn or what is currently in demand. you keep throwing around names of people like Steven Hicks or Suze Randall that cater to a small niche and who would never sell to a broader audience.

we just adapt to whatever is in demand - just a very few people even know who actually shoots what we sell.

and when the owner of MyDirtyHobby buys half of the porn biz, including Twistys, this should answer your question

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Nicky

yes, but how many toilets do they have?

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Paul Markham

Porn shops never used to make a lot of money selling novelties. You're the one that keeps bringing novelties into it. Yes a homemade site can be compared. If it's really homemade content or as good as real homemade content, then it's all about what I'm saying.

We would never work for Karups or Twistys, they couldn't afford to pay us. The idea of a newbie shooter shooting for a glam site is crazy. Karups or ATK is fine. They were buying on price.

Yes in the content game if you couldn't make more money by keeping ownership of the content, something was wrong. Did you make more keeping ownership of the content than selling it once to Karups?

No you've gone the same route as everyone else to justify a weak argument. In most cases, the top glam sites, couldn't afford the top glam shooters. In most cases, the top teen sites couldn't afford the top teen shooters, the top gonzo sites couldn't afford the top Gonzo shooters and so it goes on in most niches. Stop talking on one track to justify a weak argument.

Most sites adapted to what they could afford.

http://whois.domaintools.com/brazzers.com http://whois.domaintools.com/mydirtyhobby.com

Coincidence or what?

The problem is Madalton hasn't bothered to debate the issue, just gone off on his own track. No matter the niche or style, the better the content the better the conversion ratios and retention. Now the only question is why didn't online go for the top shooters in most cases?

He actually admits that he was still learning how to shoot in 2004/2005 and selling to Karups and Twistys. That effects the income of affiliates. How many more sponsors bought from shooters who "without them (sponsors) would have never learned how to shoot properly"?

Nice to know you confirmed my side of the debate. Maybe the sponsors could of been more helpful and had programmers, designers, marketing people, support reps, who were still learning.

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DamianJ

No, I think it's that they don't want to watch you on video. As the numbers prove.

MaDalton

jesus, Paul, at some time even you must realize what you are writing there...

"Porn shops never made much money selling novelties" - thats the most hilarious thing i read in ages

have you ever been to a warehouse of Beate Uhse or the likes? I was.

but i am sure they build this huge logistic centers only for the few shelves with DVDs which take like 5% of the space to fill the other 95% with totally useless toys, clothes and other totally unprofitable bullshit

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Paul Markham

Not Beate Uhse, but I've been in the business of selling DVD and videos to porn shops, wholesalers and porn chains long before you were in the porn business. Anyone who knew porn prior to 2000 also knows the truth. Anyone that's been to the Berlin Venus show over the years knows the truth. It used to be dominated by the porn DVD and before DVD video producers. Today DVD might be 5%. Consumers can get it for free online.

Still nice to know sponsors were buying content from you while your were a newbie shooter still learning. That must be so pleasing for affiliates sending traffic to these sites. I wonder how many other newbie shooters they gave a leg up into the the business to. And why?

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Coup

Troll Successful..

fris

he can speak of content production but nothing else, because he hasnt tired anything else, he can only guess, speculate and rant on that theirs no money in it.

guessing doesnt count.

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fris

nice yellow teeth

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MaDalton

if you think this will get you any attention you're probably wrong

Thanks to Shap i even met a couple more clients at that time

and because Twistys was probably doing so horrible at that time with all that newbie content, they got all those webmasters to promote them and members signing up

i'm sitting here, doing excellent, and just smile

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Paul Markham

Did you manage to save yourself a few dollars a month by getting some free hosting?

Good to see you made it Madalton. Still thank you for confirming what I was saying. Seems even more sponsors were willing to help you instead of use content from established people. Were you cheaper than the more established? I know you were cheaper than me.

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