signupdamnit

You're doing 1:300 on a paysite with 2% ctr on tubes like Youporn? All I can say is that isn't anything near what other people report. It's usually more like 0.5 - 1% ctr and 1:1500 - 1:5000. The ctr in particular is usually garbage even when adding the type ins generated.

Exclusive and unique content will help but if there are 30,000 full scene videos on the same tube from your competitors in the same niche your content will really need to stand out for you not to feel that. And even so I bet if you kept submitting 10 full scene videos a day your ctr won't stay at 2% and your conversion ratio won't be 1:300 for very long.

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Konda

Most people that complain about tubes just don't know how to take advantage of them. People that run tubes and/or paysites (and smart affiliates) know that tubes can generate a lots and lots of sales.

Also for paysite owners the tubes are a perfect way to reach potential customers. They don't have to give away 65% of their income or high PPS amounts anymore to get traffic. It's a lot easier and cheaper to give away some free full movies to generate traffic.

Nothing changed in the amount of people that pay for porn. More people see free porn, but the total amount of people that join paysites every day is higher than it was 10 years ago. Who cares about ratios. As long as you can get the same amount of joins at the same or less cost there is no problem.

Konda

It is EASY to get ctr of 1+ from tubes with the right ads. And ratios below 1:1000 is very possible too with the right sites. Just be creative. There are lots of people that do it.

gabe100

Dude don't throw an upside down fucking face at me. Here you have a guy breaking it down and you're going off heresy. I have 300 posts in 10 years here and half our in this thread. Why would i make stuff up. Is it for my sig?


Like i said take it or leave it.

Paul Markham

Producing that level of content takes money or/and a lot of skills. The problem is few had either. They had a kick ass digital camera, minimal lighting skills, a naked girl and little else.

Comparing traffic that clicks a banner and goes to one site as a guide for how well Tubes work is covering up the truth or dumb. It is as you and others say, down to the number of page views it takes to get one to click a banner that really matters.

If, for instance, 1-300 come to your tour and 10 viewed the movie then 1 clicked the banner. The ratio is 1-3,000. If it was 100 viewed to 1 clicked, the real ratio is 1-30,000. So 29,999 got a free video and never paid. The more you feed the beast the bigger it grows. Spot on signupdamnit.

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gabe100

Paul, it isn't about matching budgets. Very few people in the business are creative. Everyone copies everyone else. Now the glam look is in and everyone is going for depth of field and blown out backgrounds.

And yet, look at the views on this. Everyone is trying to copy MA and meanwhile PP commissions or whatever some couple to go for it in some a ghetto valley hotel room and kills it. But it's not pretty and doesn't have a nice background...

http://www.pornhub.com/view_video.ph...key=1472879328

Look at those numbers. Liars figure but figures don't lie.

Search any fat tube for most views over lifetime and you'll see tons of videos like this. Produced for what.. NOTHING... Money has nothing to do with it.

Robbie

Brother...I totally disagree with that. If what you say is true, then as the original post said: Why is our industry on life support?

I know most guys that are left...and from our conversations, I can assure you that they are not making more sales now than 10 years ago. They aren't making more money than they were even ONE year ago because every year their old rebills are less and less as well.

The evidence (in case common sense doesn't tell you) is all around you. Companies folding. People losing their jobs. Affiliates leaving in droves.

None of that is the sign of a healthy industry.

It is insane to have entire members areas ripped and given away for free to draw traffic for pre-paid ad spots. It's unprecedented and if it continues we will see more and more of the same thing happening to our business.

If everything is just great and wonderful then somebody please tell me where all these super successful people are? And why is the overall health of the industry so bad right now?

Or as Tom Crusie said: SHOW ME THE MONEY!

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ClaudiaMarie.Com

Paul Markham

I see your point 30513652 views on a free site = people paying for it.

Money has everything to do with it.

Robbie. Konda may be right, 10 years ago this was a much smaller industry. It's a ridiculous argument though. What matters is are more people buying porn today than they were yesterday?

Konda has joined my club of living in the past.

That was a joke, I live for today and fondly remember the good old days when people bought enough porn to allow me to retire.

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Konda

The money is still there, but it goes to different people now. People that have adapted. I know plenty of programs and affiliates that do very very well.
A lot more people watch online porn than 10 years ago, and more money is being spend on online porn now than 10 years ago. It just ends up in different pockets.

Barefootsies

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"Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

Paul Markham

Stop quoting 10 years ago. Live in the present. It's this months and next that will pay the bills.

Too many are living in the past here.

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The Ghost

I've never had a tube even attempt to license any of our exclusive content. Only steal them and play them for THEIR benefit



Those that attempt to steal from us get dealt with accordingly

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Konda

hahah look who's talking

I am telling there are plenty of people spending and plenty of people making money right NOW (more than those good old days you guys are talking about). The people that complain and whine that 'times are bad' and 'things were better in the past' are the ones that failed to adapt and now complain they are not making any money and that times are bad.

It might be hard to believe for those people, and most are not willing to listen and will come up with the same arguments over and over.

This industry is not dying. It is growing. More and more people are watching porn every single day. If you don't know how to make money out of this you simply are not smart enough to take advantage of this. Those are the people that are stuck in the past...

MaDalton

they buy from people like me and all other content providers. probably no one had the idea of approaching exclusive paysite owners yet to BUY the content. they rather have you submit shorter videos in exchange for an affiliate link.

do you do that?

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DWB

Exactly. Here we are 8 years later and take a look around you.

Forget the discussions, look at the state of the industry. That's what 8 years of this has done.

Tubes are the new traffic source, things have changed, I get it. I submit to them too (clips). But the number of sales you get from them now is just a fraction of what the numbers were before they existed. This is my point. I can't even believe that has to be debated. Really makes me wonder what some of you were wasting your time on back then, because it seems you have no real reference to base your sales on.

To someone who has no idea what real sales are, I'm sure tubes are the best thing since sliced bread. But if you do know, I'm just surprised you can be in favor of them as if they are a positive step for the industry.

Either way, Pandora's box is open. Only new laws or changes to existing ones will close it.

DWB

They just have Filipinos steal it and upload it. No reason to ask. They buy what they can buy and steal what they can't.

It's no secret many big tubes pay Filipinos to steal and upload videos, just as programs pay them to steal GF content and build sites with it. My worker has told me all about what his friends are doing for some of the biggest companies in the business. They have dedicated content thieves / uploaders and that is their only job.

Barefootsies

If you are waiting on politicians to save your business, than you might as well concede defeat and don the paper hat.

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DWB

I don't think anyone is waiting on that, but that's the only thing that can close Pandora's box.

However, I honestly believe the government is allowing us to destroy ourselves, and we're doing a great job at it. No regulation needed. They can just sit back and let us do what we do best.

Best-In-BC

Another stupid thread made by someone not realizing that there still a over abundance of sites being launched ie. http://www.6bot.com

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Best-In-BC

Yeah, government regulation always works in business, ROFL!

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Barefootsies

Why people want the government up in their kitchen is beyond me.

It sounds like a bunch of porn guys who do not want to pay for RemoveYourContent type of services hoping that the laws will scare criminals into behaving on the cheap.

Not gonna happen.

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"Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

tonyparra

Thats the best way of putting it

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nico-t

old timers keep on whining, also those shows come across to me as old timers gatherings who still want to feel like their 'good old days'. Dinosaurs. Quit whining and go to work.

Paul

The main thing that changed is simple, more money in fewer hands

signupdamnit

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signupdamnit

When it comes to just pay sites I think it's less money in fewer hands whereas previously we had more money in more hands. It's just that those fewer hands now have a greater percentage of the pie than before.

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tonyparra

adapt or die the sky isnt falling, ratios are not higher, everything is a ok

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Nick-Mindgeek

This debate again?


Paysite sales ARE NOT dead. They are alive and kicking. If you have trouble selling your paysite... get back to the drawing board and tweak your marketing!

How can we still be talking about this in 2012 ?

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signupdamnit

It's just strange to me that you would only do 700 sales lifetime from YouPorn if you were able to convert it at 1:300, 2% ctr with the expectation that the conversions would hold as you scaled it. You're leaving a lot of money on the table if what you have been saying here is true.

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pimpmaster9000

LOL I wonder what stuff will look like in 2022 the net never stays the same and a leech/parasite business model like the tubes is bound to die from the same disease mainstream porn died from : over dilution...

Soooooooooooo many people will open tubes and lockers and pirate boards that even tubes and lockers will become unprofitable. Kim.com will be crying for the "good old days" just like the porn site owners were crying about 2002

It will become so ridiculously hard to make money with tubes, because the dilution may not happen by new tube numbers but also by "tube wars" where tubes go in to a content dumping war with each other. ..

I can see the business model now LOL the will give away free porn (full membership areas of course) with this they will give away 3 years free membership on some dating site, with this they will also give away 30 min free with some web cam company and with this you will get a free years supply of penis pills and all in hopes of upselling them some hosting 5 years down the road conversions rates will be something people will stop talking about because its too depressing and means nothing any more...

Jel

set up some accounts today thanks to this thread - or at least attempted to. No confirmation emails from tube8 or youporn, and continual upload errors at pornhub & spankwire.

Barry-xlovecam

signupdamnit

Congratulations Jel. You're soon going to be a very rich man. If what some others say here is true all you need do is merely submit 10 full scenes a day from your pay site for a month or two and you should easily earn over $100,000 with no loss to your affiliate or regular typein sales. For every 1,000,000 impressions on those tubes that should get you about 60 sales. So then all you need to do is keep buying content and hire out a bunch of third world citizens to upload to these tubes in order to scale your operation infinitely. You'll soon be richer than Bill Gates. You lucky devil.

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jack-exploitedbabysitters

in terms of tube ad spots most of the good ones are spoken for what is left is really the trash a lot of the time

Jel

Thanks, and I'm far too stupid to do anything other than exactly what you say of course

signupdamnit

Just remember your friend - the guy who started the thread which made you rich, ok? I always wanted a winter mansion in Hawaii.

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signupdamnit

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porno jew

yes very surprising that people don't blindly buy paysites with 12 porn dvds inside, or solo girl sites with 6 videos updated last in 2008, or sites loaded up with generic porn movies and paysite tours from 1999.

The Porn Nerd

The tube site model CAN make you sales but there are many factors involved, like what kind of Tour you have, etc etc etc.

But there's no doubt this AIN'T 2003. Everything is down, across the board.

What will this Industry be like in five years time?

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Far-L

Sites still close because, truth be told, most sites suck. The sites going out of biz offer nothing compelling in terms of content or user experience that raises them above the standard of what a user can get on a tube. It isn't hard to figure out why they can't compete.

Committing to quality of content and a great user experience are not easy so it isn't hard to figure out why most fail to even attempt it.

This was true in 2003 too by the way.

The sites I see coming and going everyday don't even try to address user experience. The days of a few pic and movie galleries being enough to hold a user's attention have gone the way of the dinosaur and why people just can't come to grips with that fact is beyond me.

If people spent less time bemoaning the state of the industry and more time figuring out how to please their members then this probably wouldn't even be an issue.

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signupdamnit

Here's kind of a bizarre example. This guy had some nice content but I don't think he ever had an affiliate program. He posted a goodbye message upon closing his site. At first it cited piracy as the main reason. Since then I see he has updated it to include a bunch of spiritual and religious commentary against masturbation (whatever, a variation on finding God I suppose).



http://www.young-goddess.com/

Someone posed this before. I think it was bns666 but this guy had some really nice exclusive content in his niche and has been around for a while. While it might be that really good content reduces the negative effects somewhat I think it's incorrect to say piracy still doesn't hurt good sites or that all the people going out of business had shitty content. This guy didn't have any reason to lie about it. And I know for a fact many pay site owners go to great extremes to keep their content off the pirate sites.

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TheSquealer

I don't agree with you on that. Everyone is blaming their failure/decline on "tube sites" - however, free content was always made available to surfers. The only reason tube sites didn't already exist before 2004 was bandwidth/availability of broadband.

It was always destined to happen. More free content was always going to happen when technology made it possible.


What laws? To change what exactly?

This is my problem with these discussions. Tube sites with full length videos will NEVER go away. That's where the traffic goes. As long as thats where traffic goes, thats what people will be offering. The sooner people accept they aren't going away and get busy, the better off they will be. The more people continue to hope and pray the genie will somehow get put back into the bottle, the more quickly they will continue to fail and die.

Knowing you are a producer, I certainly sympathize with you and the problem of people ripping videos, watermarking them (or not) and re-uploading them to tube sites. This is an industry which has always put little to no emphasis on content protection - even today where its much easier and more options are available and where services are available which will get it removed.

However, people keep failing to understand that just because a video is over 2min doesn't mean it was stolen. Just because videos are 10-15-20 mins... doesn't mean they are stolen. Tons of sponsors and rights owners upload them and even tube sites themselves license content. That's not going to change, long videos aren't going away.

Free, full length videos are here to stay. Period. End of story. Either webmasters can learn to live with that fact and work with it, or they die.

It's totally insane to me to see people still talking in 2012 as if tube sites are the problem. The situation more free content was ALWAYS coming. It is here. It is what it is.

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Robbie

You're missing a little something that I call the "nuclear option" from the govt.

It's something that we have been afraid of since the mid 1990's. It's the reason we had "warning pages" on our tgps (that don't exist on tube sites).

And what I'm talking about is the day that the govt. comes in and says there can be NO pornography that is outside of a protected members area.

And trust me...that day is coming fast with full hardcore scenes everywhere. It's just a matter of time until it causes some religious nut cases in Washington D.C. to decide that the poor innocent children are in danger because of all the sex happening on their computers (of course it's perfectly alright for the kids to see all the violence they want to).

And when that day happens...then you WILL understand that there can indeed be laws to stop free porn completely (at least in the U.S.A., which is the biggest porn market in the world).

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theking

Please explain how requiring porn to be put into a protected members area will stop free porn completely in the U.S.A. or even reduce the level of free porn?

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DWB

Try reading. I said there is no government regulation, and they don't need to because we're doing a fine job of destroying ourselves.

Funny comment coming from a guy working for a company who built their empire based on piracy, and who is in fact the largest pirates in the entire industry, who until not too long ago was paying people to upload stolen content for them.

And I'm sure Brazzers sales are no where near what they were a few years ago.


Are you even in the business? Seriously.


That's what I've been saying. Of course they make sales. But as you see yourself, and I know you are an active tube submitter, sales are way down, contrary to what the tube site owners and noobs say. You see it with your own eyes. And if you don't, the pirates, tube owners, and trolls will say it is because you have failed. lol


Free content in terms of short clips and photo galleries is NOTHING compared to 65,000+ free full length videos.


Oh, I dunno.... maybe a little thing called 2257 (not holding my breath on that I will note). Change that and user uploaded content is gone overnight, as are most of the tubes and free sites. That is one example off the top of my head.

Why do you think the biggest tubes are all buying tons of content now? They know what will eventually come, and are planning accordingly.


You don't know that. You have no idea what is coming around the corner or what Visa rules may come our way, or some child protection law that won't allow free explicit porn at all without a credit card. Point is, none of us have a CLUE what's coming, or not.



That is where the traffic is today.

The future may be worse or better. None of us know. All we know is TODAY that is where the traffic is.


You are right. But we all know the majority of tube content (on 99% of the tubes) was stolen from somewhere else.

They are here until something changes that makes them go away. Like I posted above, that could be tomorrow or in 10 years, and could come in all sorts of ways. Child protection, 2257, Visa / MC rules, the next SOPA, or what have you.

Something will come after the tubes just as TGPs and MGPs before them. Count on that.


Tubes are A problem. They are not THE problem. THE problem has many faces.

That said, I get traffic from them too. I think the ratios are poor, but it all adds up and I'm happy to get what I can get these days.


QFT

The internet should not be lawless, just as the radio, TV and print media is not lawless. Right now it is. It's only a matter of time before that comes to a screeching halt and regulation is dropped on our heads. And we'll have no one to blame but ourselves.

I find it hugely ironic that you have a company like Manwin (and the other companies) who will put a warning page on their pay sites to "protect the kids" but have nothing on their tubes exposing children to an endless sea of hardcore porn. That will bite everyone in the ass somewhere along the ride.

anexsia

I'm interested in what comes after tubes, what will be the next evolution?

Barry-xlovecam

globofun

After reading the whole thread....... I can confirm, Paul Markham is a genius!

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Barefootsies

The jew claims to be an affiliate.

However, I have often asked myself that same question based on some of his replies.

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Enough Said.

"Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

Robbie

I believe that is 100% true about the govt. letting us destroy ourselves.

But make no mistake about it...They can and they eventually WILL require porn to be in protected members areas only.

They've done it for decades in the "real" world. And with the way porn is given out in full hardcore scenes for every kid in the world to view these days...they will eventually do it on the internet as well.

And knowing how our over-reaching govt. tries to control everything and everybody...they will stop it dead cold in the U.S. and then begin pressuring every other govt. in the world to do the same.

Just like they did with the drug laws.

And when that day happens...it will be the final nail in the coffin of all my work as an affiliate over the years.

And we will have nobody to blame but the fucking assholes who are giving away the entire business in pursuit of traffic that they are getting off the backs of other people's content.

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