If tubes like pornhub are so great for sponsors then why are sites still closing? - Page 3 - GoFuckYourself.com

pornsprite · 04-09-2012, 07:32 PM

Best thread of the day for sure and very informative to a virtual newb like me.

TheSquealer · 04-09-2012, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

You're missing a little something that I call the "nuclear option" from the govt.

It's something that we have been afraid of since the mid 1990's. It's the reason we had "warning pages" on our tgps (that don't exist on tube sites).

And what I'm talking about is the day that the govt. comes in and says there can be NO pornography that is outside of a protected members area.

Why do you think it matters what the US Government says? Did 2257 stop the Dutch from creating porn sites that could be viewed anywhere in the world?

What US law is going to stop www.freeporn.com from doing exactly what it does outside the US?

Your little pipe dream just means that same tube traffic will shift elsewhere. Just as water flows to the path of least resistance, porn traffic flows to the better content (i.e. longer, free, better quality etc). It's not going to disappear, its going to go where high quality/long videos are offered.. whether that is in Russia or Czech Republic or The Netherlands or wherever. And you will still be here bitching and at the same time claiming you're getting rich while nothing else changes.

papill0n · 04-09-2012, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Stop quoting 10 years ago. Live in the present. It's this months and next that will pay the bills.

Too many are living in the past here.

your referring to yourself obviously

Robbie · 04-09-2012, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

Why do you think it matters what the US Government says? Did 2257 stop the Dutch from creating porn sites that could be viewed anywhere in the world?

What US law is going to stop www.freeporn.com from doing exactly what it does outside the US?

Your little pipe dream just means that same tube traffic will shift elsewhere. Just as water flows to the path of least resistance, porn traffic flows to the better content (i.e. longer, free, better quality etc). It's not going to disappear, its going to go where high quality/long videos are offered.. whether that is in Russia or Czech Republic or The Netherlands or wherever. And you will still be here bitching and at the same time claiming you're getting rich while nothing else changes.

If the US govt. goes after free porn it will be a nightmare for all of us who are in this business.

You can believe what you want. You can think what you want. But the fact is that the US govt. is a fucking nightmare for everyone in the world. And when a decision like that gets made...they will find a way to make it a worldwide thing.

You are entitled to your opinion. But none of us can see into the future. I'm only expressing a view that MANY of us have had for 15 years.
All of us who had big traffic free sites have always been afraid of the govt. moving in to shut down free porn.

And all I'm saying is that when it finally does happen...it will shut down the tube sites. Including mine.

Barefootsies · 04-09-2012, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

And all I'm saying is that when it finally does happen...it will shut down the tube sites. Including mine.

Barry-xlovecam · 04-09-2012, 08:18 PM

Read AMERICAN CIVIL LIBERTIES UNION v. MUKASEY

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-3rd-circuit/1061929.html

This is the "PRECEDENTIAL" COPA Decision of the US Federal Appellate Court for the Third Circuit.

I don't see how some new law will pass constitutional muster in face of this decision.

For myself, so long as some new USA law or some international agreement on this subject does not create a burdensome obstacle for all nationalities restricting access to explicit adult content to adults I have no problem with it. Generally speaking, minors don't purchase porn anyway.

We use an adult verification script also but in reality a user can insert any birth date -- it is only a good faith effort and it is no more than a reasonable effort. We only offer "hardcore" sex shows to credit card buyers only but even a 14 year old can buy a prepaid VISA card and fake his age -- there are far worse crimes in reality but we do make a reasonable effort to provide adult entertainment that is restricted to lawful adults in most cases. So called "tube sites" do not make this effort and in the arena of public opinion they don't give a shit and considering where much of their content comes from are you at all surprised?

However, as of the current technology of today, I see no way this could be possible under US Constitutional rulings as did the Court in the above cited case ...

Bottom line, tubes have taken the traffic -- by whatever means -- and they own the bulk advertising market now. Sort of like Sir Issac Newton's First Law of Motion: I. Every object in a state of uniform motion tends to remain in that state of motion unless an external force is applied to it.

When cometh the force?

dgraves · 04-09-2012, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Far-L

Sites still close because, truth be told, most sites suck. The sites going out of biz offer nothing compelling in terms of content or user experience that raises them above the standard of what a user can get on a tube. It isn't hard to figure out why they can't compete.

Committing to quality of content and a great user experience are not easy so it isn't hard to figure out why most fail to even attempt it.

This was true in 2003 too by the way.

The sites I see coming and going everyday don't even try to address user experience. The days of a few pic and movie galleries being enough to hold a user's attention have gone the way of the dinosaur and why people just can't come to grips with that fact is beyond me.

If people spent less time bemoaning the state of the industry and more time figuring out how to please their members then this probably wouldn't even be an issue.

Your forgetting that sites who offer something of value and compelling get their content ripped and put on tubes for free. Tube owners are more interested in good content because that will bring more traffic. How can anyone create something that can't be found on a tube when it all gets stolen and posted on tubes? We're essentially competing against our own content.

The moment a new site that has unique content tries to promote on sites like GFY, the content gets ripped and given away for free to tubes.

A few months ago I posted a clip on here of a girl I took to the Gloryhole as a test shoot. It was kind of a funny video because she made really strange faces while showing the cum in her mouth. This was the only place I posted that video and just a few days later it was on a tube.

Paul Markham · 04-09-2012, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWB

Either way, Pandora's box is open. Only new laws or changes to existing ones will close it.

The big Tube owners would push hard for a law making piracy very hard. They have the money now to go 100% legit. Like all new industries industries the few at the top are moving in to take over. The problem when a big fish gobbles up little fish who are dying of a parasitic disease is the big fish also gets infected. Eventually all the problem the little guys now face, will be exclusively theirs.

Turn off the access to free porn and someone will start again and become the big traffic gatherer.

Traffic isn't king. Because for one reason it's people and you can't control them. You can offer them loads and loads of free porn to come your way, the moment you you stop the supply of free. they run to the next guy giving them free porn.

We took the first step many years ago. Tubes are just the latest type of free porn.

Paul Markham · 04-09-2012, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neeko

This debate again?

Paysite sales ARE NOT dead. They are alive and kicking. If you have trouble selling your paysite... get back to the drawing board and tweak your marketing!

How can we still be talking about this in 2012 ?

= submit movies to our tubes so we can take more of your traffic to sell for cents on the dollar.

Paul Markham · 04-09-2012, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterPeabody

What will this Industry be like in five years time?

1/10th the size it is today. OK the fraction is a guess, it could be 1/5th to 1/20th. It will not be bigger without some major changes to the format of giving away free porn to get surfers.

dgraves · 04-09-2012, 09:50 PM

I wasn't around when TGP's/MGP's first started. Was it a similar situation just on a smaller scale?

Rmagnus · 04-09-2012, 10:19 PM

so where are we (affiliates) headed too? same question, where paysites headed to in a couple of years?

Paul Markham · 04-09-2012, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWB

Try reading. I said there is no government regulation, and they don't need to because we're doing a fine job of destroying ourselves.

The porn industry will never be destroyed. diminished in terms of $$$ yes. In terms of people looking at porn, that has never been higher. They just don''t pay to watch it. This still leaves the problem of millions of under 18s with access to everything this industry throws out. Even my 10 year old daughter knows there's free sex videos online. Fortunately she's been brought up not to be drawn by them.

Quote:

Free content in terms of short clips and photo galleries is NOTHING compared to 65,000+ free full length videos.

We now know they were the first step to 2012. Even then they cost offline porn sales. Not it's online porn suffereing.

Quote:

Oh, I dunno.... maybe a little thing called 2257 (not holding my breath on that I will note). Change that and user uploaded content is gone overnight, as are most of the tubes and free sites. That is one example off the top of my head.

Why do you think the biggest tubes are all buying tons of content now? They know what will eventually come, and are planning accordingly.

Piracy isn't the problem

Quote:

You don't know that. You have no idea what is coming around the corner or what Visa rules may come our way, or some child protection law that won't allow free explicit porn at all without a credit card. Point is, none of us have a CLUE what's coming, or not.

If one law doesn't work, they will try another one and then another one. Passing laws is their job.

Quote:

That is where the traffic is today.

The future may be worse or better. None of us know. All we know is TODAY that is where the traffic is.

And traffic is people, we lost that fact somewhere thinking they were sheep we could herd.

Quote:

They are here until something changes that makes them go away. Like I posted above, that could be tomorrow or in 10 years, and could come in all sorts of ways. Child protection, 2257, Visa / MC rules, the next SOPA, or what have you.

you cannot stop politicians from trying. They might decide that if you want to do business in America or with American companies, you have to adhere to US laws. So if you want to take credit card payments on your site, US laws apply.

Quote:

Something will come after the tubes just as TGPs and MGPs before them. Count on that.

Something to get more surfers who on average will spend less than they did before, is the most likely.

Quote:

Tubes are A problem. They are not THE problem. THE problem has many faces.

The problem ultimately is the people who think they can control traffic, throw up crap sites with no real appeal and then dump 10,000s of surfers onto free porn to get a sign up. And every problem concerning sign ups is met with the same solution. More traffic, which means give away more free porn.

Quote:

The internet should not be lawless, just as the radio, TV and print media is not lawless. Right now it is. It's only a matter of time before that comes to a screeching halt and regulation is dropped on our heads. And we'll have no one to blame but ourselves.

I find it hugely ironic that you have a company like Manwin (and the other companies) who will put a warning page on their pay sites to "protect the kids" but have nothing on their tubes exposing children to an endless sea of hardcore porn. That will bite everyone in the ass somewhere along the ride.

Laws will come, when they don't work more will come.

Paul Markham · 04-09-2012, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

1. There is no Nuclear Option Robbie. Congressional Representatives are not going to be donning "we love porn" campaign buttons. Porn is only tolerated for reason of Federal Court decisions. The more likely scenario is that the lawmakers are happy watching the porn industry cannibalize itself.

It doesn't stop the problem of free porn easily available to children.

Quote:

2. §2257 is a US Law and it stops at US borders. Our company is Dutch we only recognize Dutch Laws and EU Parliamentary directives. U.S.C. 18 §2257 is in contradiction to The European Union Directive on Data Protection that is our law -- we can only provide information by a Dutch Court's order to do otherwise is unlawful in our domicile. That doesn't mean we don't have proper identification documents and model releases -- it means that they are confidential unless subject to release by the Dutch Court's order.

Then maybe a law that says if you want to do business with the US, comply to US laws or don't tap into our markets. Of course this would apply to US people tapping into Dutch markets. If people can tell me there's a girl in the next village waiting to talk to me and advertise inn Czech. Sites can obey the laws of the countries they appear in, or not appear there.

Quote:

Few of the "tube" type sites are located in the USA and if their servers are they only have to look to the recent events in the megaupload.com matter to get the big picture. §2257 will have little affect on tube sites.

See above.

Quote:

3. In the litigation of COPA it was found that there was no reliable way to restrict explicit adult content on the Internet to "adults only." Short of issuing everyone an Internet verifiable national ID card, with even that being ineffective as international commerce would be restricted, there is no way that access to adult pornography in the USA can be restricted constitutionally.

See above.

Quote:

4. Bottom line, the old ways have already been destroyed. Destroying the destroyers with new laws is laughable. The only remedy to the situation is a new disruptive innovation.

Good luck on anyone in porn coming up with anything new.

Quote:

Generally speaking, minors don't purchase porn anyway.

The purchasing isn't the problem, it's the access to it. Is there already a US law for allowing access to porn by children in a porn shop?

Paul Markham · 04-09-2012, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dgraves

I wasn't around when TGP's/MGP's first started. Was it a similar situation just on a smaller scale?

Yes, just not as bad. Even Robbie will tell you that an extremely high % of his traffic was never buying anything.

People were screaming that they were doing fantastically well with 1-100 going to look at their tour. Were actually buying something. Of course those just staying on the TGP site consuming free porn didn't count.

The numbers made us blind to the facts.

SeanLEE · 04-10-2012, 12:31 AM

Upload your videos to our tube!!! INSTANTLY!

http://video.xzye.com/upload/ <--Video Upload Form!

http://video.xzye.com <--Our Tube!

Paul Markham · 04-10-2012, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeanLEE

Upload your videos to our tube!!! INSTANTLY!

http://video.xzye.com/upload/ <--Video Upload Form!

http://video.xzye.com <--Our Tube!

I might try that with something I'm working on.

No point in letting the band wagon go by. Is there space for one more?

AdultRev · 04-12-2012, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

Some people say that the tubes like Porn Hub are great for sponsors. They can submit some clips with watermarks and then make all sorts of sales from it. But if this is the case why would any pay site ever need to close. All you need do is keep submitting large clips to these large tubes and rake in the sales, right?

On the other hand if for every one sale you make by giving Porn Hub one of your full videos you take away ten sales you used to make before from affiliates and type-ins then the math would work out to what we are seeing. Sure you might make 4 sales a day from putting your full content on those tubes but you're losing 40 a day that your affiliates and typeins used to send you.

Show me where I am wrong.

What you're describing really depends on volume. It's the economic balance right? More volume with smaller margins or less volume with greater margins. I would imagine efficiency point is a balance somewhere in between and that's why we see what we do.

I wouldn't be doing our platform justice if I didn't mention it since it is relevant to this topic. With both pay and tube sites, a great way for monetizing comes through approaching users differently, tabling different types of advertisements and working more efficiently.

Please give us a look and at least see the difference in what we're doing for both pay and free sites https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=1064015 There is our thread. We're using customized tools that approach adult browsers and engage them differently. The idea for us is to make sure that you maximize revenue and if you give us a shot, we'll show you the difference. Take a look at your earnings and user experience before then compare them to what they look like AFTER you run with us.

Feel free to PM me or get in touch with me anytime at [email protected]

Far-L · 04-12-2012, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dgraves

Your forgetting that sites who offer something of value and compelling get their content ripped and put on tubes for free. Tube owners are more interested in good content because that will bring more traffic. How can anyone create something that can't be found on a tube when it all gets stolen and posted on tubes? We're essentially competing against our own content.

The moment a new site that has unique content tries to promote on sites like GFY, the content gets ripped and given away for free to tubes.

A few months ago I posted a clip on here of a girl I took to the Gloryhole as a test shoot. It was kind of a funny video because she made really strange faces while showing the cum in her mouth. This was the only place I posted that video and just a few days later it was on a tube.

Actually I am not forgetting that or ignoring it at all. We don't have any issue with getting our content that has been put up without our consent fixed so that it is promoting us directly. People with good original and unique content should always be seeking to take advantage of the same opportunity. If they don't or can't then they really don't have much to grumble about other than their own lack of effort.

Anyway, there is no more point to participating in this thread now that Paul is dominating it with his always effervescent genius.

signupdamnit · 04-12-2012, 02:22 PM

Thanks for the responses so far where people put some thought into it besides merely making ridiculous comments or kissing someone's ass.

I do understand that on some level the exposure can help to get your brand out there where previously it was unknown. Especially if your content is a lot better than anyone in your niche or even better you are the only site in the niche. But I still hold that eventually your full scene content getting out there is going to come back to bite you at some point. Any advantage you have also erodes with time as your competitors join in the game. Soon when 12 of your competitors are releasing full scenes (or have them stolen) it's going to effect you too to some extent because x% of surfers will settle for the free content your competitors have made available on the tube rather than use yours. It doesn't matter how much better your content is because to some extent you are going to lose a certain percentage of sales. As many state you are training the customer to not pay for porn. Don't believe me? Check out this link:

https://www.google.com/#hl=en&safe=o...or+porn%22+lol

1. "lol at people who pay for porn"
2. does anyone actually pay for porn anymore? [Archive]
3. Just pay for porn, already
4. Why pay for Porn when you can get it free? - The Debate Team
5. Pay for porn? lol -- LiveWire Teen Forums

See the problem yet? No offense but if you are a pay site owner and you can't see a problem with this then I don't know what more to say. The only thing I can think of is that you don't plan to sell membership based websites in the long term future.

But the real issue here isn't the tube model or even user uploads. The real issue is theft. If a paysite owner is stupid enough to upload their member's area to PornHub then they have every right to do that.

Far-L · 04-12-2012, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

Thanks for the responses so far where people put some thought into it besides merely making ridiculous comments or kissing someone's ass.

I do understand that on some level the exposure can help to get your brand out there where previously it was unknown. Especially if your content is a lot better than anyone in your niche or even better you are the only site in the niche. But I still hold that eventually your full scene content getting out there is going to come back to bite you at some point. Any advantage you have also erodes with time as your competitors join in the game. Soon when 12 of your competitors are releasing full scenes (or have them stolen) it's going to effect you too to some extent because x% of surfers will settle for the free content your competitors have made available on the tube rather than use yours. It doesn't matter how much better your content is because to some extent you are going to lose a certain percentage of sales. As many state you are training the customer to not pay for porn. Don't believe me? Check out this link:

https://www.google.com/#hl=en&safe=o...or+porn%22+lol

1. "lol at people who pay for porn"
2. does anyone actually pay for porn anymore? [Archive]
3. Just pay for porn, already
4. Why pay for Porn when you can get it free? - The Debate Team
5. Pay for porn? lol -- LiveWire Teen Forums

See the problem yet? No offense but if you are a pay site owner and you can't see a problem with this then I don't know what more to say. The only thing I can think of is that you don't plan to sell membership based websites in the long term future.

But the real issue here isn't the tube model or even user uploads. The real issue is theft. If a paysite owner is stupid enough to upload their member's area to PornHub then they have every right to do that.

I see your point but I just don't necessarily agree with it. When I was in my 20s I wouldn't pay for porn either. The mistake many people make is not understanding the demographic of people that are willing to pay because they have the means - which is where value perceptions play a huge role in guiding buying behaviour.

I came to my way of thinking by being a Deadhead and recording and trading Dead tapes and seeing how "free" content helped make them much bigger than the sum of their record sales which were anemic compared to other bands for the most part.

If site owners haven't figured out how to protect their sites from full rips then that should be the priority of business.

dgraves · 04-12-2012, 04:19 PM

It's an important topic but pointless to discuss until the laws change that protect thieves.

porno jew · 04-12-2012, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Far-L

I came to my way of thinking by being a Deadhead and recording and trading Dead tapes and seeing how "free" content helped make them much bigger than the sum of their record sales which were anemic compared to other bands for the most part.

forgot about the dead bootleg culture. thanks for the reminder.

Barry-xlovecam · 04-12-2012, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

It doesn't stop the problem of free porn easily available to children.

Then maybe a law that says if you want to do business with the US, comply to US laws or don't tap into our markets. Of course this would apply to US people tapping into Dutch markets. If people can tell me there's a girl in the next village waiting to talk to me and advertise inn Czech. Sites can obey the laws of the countries they appear in, or not appear there.

See above.

See above.

Good luck on anyone in porn coming up with anything new.

The purchasing isn't the problem, it's the access to it. Is there already a US law for allowing access to porn by children in a porn shop?

You got to be kidding me ... If you can't see the difference between a digital playing field and the old bricks and mortar environment of 30 years ago you are beaten down before you start.

What would you suggest; that the surfer email you his driver's license or his passport for you to inspect and keep safe so you can be sure that the surfer is of legal age to enter your porn site, ROFLMAO.

That is absolutely ludicrous and verification of age is a red herring online. Ultimately, parental responsibility must play a role -- parents are responsible for their children's actions. Now, should laws be passed requiring some mandatory tagging of websites as to content so parental filters would function better I would have no problem with that -- it would just be responsible behavior on this industry's part. But bullshit age verifications walls, LMAO. Every 14 year old knows how to put a fake birth date into the script. So, age verification walls are a joke in self deception they are just used as an affirmative defense.

Anyone over the age of 14 can buy a prepaid stored value credit card at the local 7-11, WalMart or Grocery store so possession of a credit card proves nothing. But hey, start a new trend "email me your ID to see my hardcore porn -- we'll get back to you with your secret password!! And if you act now we'll send you a link to your magic online decoder ring" good fucking luck.

We voluntarily tag our content:
Code:
<meta name="verify-v1" content="aEagIlYCzQNCxEzEMxmYXt3DHuWuzm9E6FTxTTryVx4=" />
<meta name="verify-v1" content="uFmHimGMo1gS3tgDhIO/BMpo7/4+usZtAk2RFlw++hQ=" />
<meta name="msvalidate.01" content="3D667A43C2C1D301AE3BEFBAD227E0E9" />
<
Why don't you even tag your site with adult meta tags that content filters could identify? Yeah, I just checked the source of paulmarkham.com you set a good example to follow ...

Practice what you preach ...

Barry-xlovecam · 04-12-2012, 07:27 PM

shit wrong tags :P

Code:

<link href="rss.xml" rel="alternate" type="application/rss+xml" title="XLoveCam.com - New models" /><link rel="meta" href="http://http://www.xlovecam.com/labels.rdf.php" type="application/rdf+xml" title="ICRA labels" /><meta http-equiv="pics-Label" content='(pics-1.1 "http://www.icra.org/pics/vocabularyv03/" l gen true for "http://http://www.xlovecam.com/" r (n 3 s 3 v 0 l 3 oa 2 ob 0 oc 0 od 0 oe 0 of 0 og 0 oh 0 c 1) gen true for "http://http://www.xlovecam.com/" r (n 3 s 3 v 0 l 3 oa 2 ob 0 oc 0 od 0 oe 0 of 0 og 0 oh 0 c 1))' />

Colmike9 · 04-12-2012, 07:49 PM

To answer the threads question: It's the same thing as asking 'why do restaurants and stores go out of business every day yet people still eat every day?'

So there's no point in making up a reason..

Robbie · 04-12-2012, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

Anyone over the age of 14 can buy a prepaid stored value credit card at the local 7-11, WalMart or Grocery store so possession of a credit card proves nothing.

Do adult billing processors accept pre-paid credit cards? I don't see any kind of way on any or our join forms from any of our processors to do that?

Barry-xlovecam · 04-12-2012, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Do adult billing processors accept pre-paid credit cards? I don't see any kind of way on any or our join forms from any of our processors to do that?

They can be used for online purchases they are branded VISA or Mastercharge and work in all ATMs in the Cirrus Maestro Networks ...

http://usa.visa.com/personal/cards/p...-explore.html#

Example ...

They are issued by member banks and private labeled for stores that are sponsored by private banks -- if anyone in merchant account processing wants to comment as to their treatment ... be my guest ...

There is online bank account debiting also -- most banks will open accounts for minors with a parent as the co-signer. However, the principal account holder can make transactions with the funds in the account.

Quote:

Where to use it

Use your card online, over the phone, and at the millions of places where Visa debit cards are accepted ? supermarkets, clothing stores, drug stores, restaurants, web sites, gas station pumps, and many more. Your money is replaced if the card is lost or stolen.

One of the points in the COPA Decision overturning the access restrictions to adult websites by law was that the possession or use of a credit card was not proof of age.

Should there even be card readers (or OCR) on all computers in the future and all ID documents have a machine readable code it still would not be proof of age -- a minor could just scan an adult's ID card and pretend to be them.

So, it boils down to tagging a website so if a content filter is active it will deny access to the browser. We use the ICRA and RTA tagging -- at least we make some effort.

Quote:

U.S. Supreme Court
BUTLER v. MICHIGAN, 352 U.S. 380 (1957)
352 U.S. 380

BUTLER v. MICHIGAN.
APPEAL FROM THE RECORDER'S COURT OF THE CITY OF DETROIT, MICHIGAN.
No. 16.
Argued October 16, 1956.
Decided February 25, 1957.

Section 343 of the Michigan Penal Code, in effect, makes it a misdemeanor to sell or make available to the general reading public any book containing obscene language "tending to the corruption of the morals of youth." For selling to an adult police officer a book which the trial judge found to have such a potential effect on youth, appellant was convicted of a violation of this section. Held: The statute violates the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, and the conviction is reversed. Pp. 380-384.

Reversed.

MR. JUSTICE FRANKFURTER delivered the opinion of the Court.

We have before us legislation not reasonably restricted to the evil with which it is said to deal. The incidence of this enactment is to reduce the adult population of Michigan to reading only what is fit for children. It thereby [352 U.S. 380, 384] arbitrarily curtails one of those liberties of the individual, now enshrined in the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, that history has attested as the indispensable conditions for the maintenance and progress of a free society. We are constrained to reverse this conviction.

Reversed.

This Supreme Court Decision is often cited in cases before the Courts where the constitutionally of limited access to adult material is mandated "We have before us legislation not reasonably restricted to the evil with which it is said to deal." A REASONABLE policy has to be written into the statute. Filling out some form or using a financial instrument that could be offered by a person of any age is not reasonable age verification -- this is why COPA was declared by the Courts as unconstitutional.

Paul Markham · 04-12-2012, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

You got to be kidding me ... If you can't see the difference between a digital playing field and the old bricks and mortar environment of 30 years ago you are beaten down before you start.

I see the difference better than those who never worked in the two.

On one hand you had bricks and mortar that took a financial investment to get started with and possibly lose. On the other you have nothing to get started with and notihing to lose. Affiliates only lose time.

Quote:

What would you suggest; that the surfer email you his driver's license or his passport for you to inspect and keep safe so you can be sure that the surfer is of legal age to enter your porn site, ROFLMAO.

It has nothing to do with what I suggest, it's what laws enforce that matter. Stop being personal and start being logical.

Quote:

That is absolutely ludicrous and verification of age is a red herring online. Ultimately, parental responsibility must play a role -- parents are responsible for their children's actions. Now, should laws be passed requiring some mandatory tagging of websites as to content so parental filters would function better I would have no problem with that -- it would just be responsible behavior on this industry's part. But bullshit age verifications walls, LMAO. Every 14 year old knows how to put a fake birth date into the script. So, age verification walls are a joke in self deception they are just used as an affirmative defense.

Getting more illogical as you type. Governments do not rely on on the citizens being responsible. They pass laws.

Quote:

Anyone over the age of 14 can buy a prepaid stored value credit card at the local 7-11, WalMart or Grocery store so possession of a credit card proves nothing. But hey, start a new trend "email me your ID to see my hardcore porn -- we'll get back to you with your secret password!! And if you act now we'll send you a link to your magic online decoder ring" good fucking luck.

so anyone floating that idea is clueless.

We voluntarily tag our content:

Code:

<meta name="verify-v1" content="aEagIlYCzQNCxEzEMxmYXt3DHuWuzm9E6FTxTTryVx4=" />
<meta name="verify-v1" content="uFmHimGMo1gS3tgDhIO/BMpo7/4+usZtAk2RFlw++hQ=" />
<meta name="msvalidate.01" content="3D667A43C2C1D301AE3BEFBAD227E0E9" />
<

Which every kid obeys.

Quote:

Why don't you even tag your site with adult meta tags that content filters could identify? Yeah, I just checked the source of paulmarkham.com you set a good example to follow ...

Practice what you preach ...

Why should a kid bother with my site when he has Tubes with Webcam ads on them to get all the porn he needs.

Paul Markham · 04-12-2012, 09:49 PM

Back to the subject.

If tubes like pornhub are so great for sponsors then why are sites still closing?

Tubes like Pornhub are for many the best game in town today. Also sponsors will paid a rosy picture in the hope some affiliates will be fooled into sending them traffic. Try selling these sponsors, who are doing so well, some content and you'll soon see the truth. They will tell you that things aren't so good.

The good thing Tubes do is bring millions of people together with free recorded porn and allow them to sell ad space to cam sites, dating and a few paysites.

I believe there's a new law on the table that replaces COPA. That tells me one thing. The US Government recognise the problem and are not relying on "parental control" to solve the problem. The notion that a payment will solve the problem of free porn destroying the industry is a far fetched as the one that giving away free porn generated sales.

$1 life time membership to Pornhub and it complies with a "payment law" and gets rid of the complete losers without a CC. They might even support such an act.

porno jew · 04-12-2012, 09:52 PM

why are some sites closing and why are there plenty of new sites appearing on 6bot.com every day?

there is the real question and i demand a fucking answer.

Paul Markham · 04-12-2012, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by porno jew

why are some sites closing and why are there plenty of new sites appearing on 6bot.com every day?

there is the real question and i demand a fucking answer.

Because the porn industry is slowly devolving into an advertising industry and worth a lot less than it was in the days before idiots took it over.

The days of bricks and mortar when people had to have a bit of money and a clue to what they were doing.

porno jew · 04-12-2012, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Because the porn industry is slowly devolving into an advertising industry and worth a lot less than it was in the days before idiots took it over.

The days of bricks and mortar when people had to have a bit of money and a clue to what they were doing.

no if everything is dying why are new sites opening every day? answer me now.

Colmike9 · 04-12-2012, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Because the porn industry is slowly devolving into an advertising industry and worth a lot less than it was in the days before idiots took it over.

The days of bricks and mortar when people had to have a bit of money and a clue to what they were doing.

It makes me more in a year than I've ever made at any other job and I used to be kinda high up at Apple..

It depends on what you know how to do. There are too many n00bs think they can take a computer class at their community center or read a book and expect to be able to make money online and since they don't make money and porn is faster to access because of faster internet speeds and there is more now than before because of very cheap hosting and freehosts, they think no one is buying anymore..

Robbie · 04-12-2012, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

They can be used for online purchases they are branded VISA or Mastercharge and work in all ATMs in the Cirrus Maestro Networks

Yeah, I know how they can be used. But I don't think I've ever seen an adult join form that was set up to be used that way.

All the join forms I've seen require your first and last name, billing address, etc. and it has to match the info on the credit card. Pre-paid cards that a kid could buy at Walmart don't have that information.

I was wondering if any ADULT processors allow those?

I, for one, don't have any way to accept those that I know of. I also don't accept e-checks anymore (because of chargebacks). And I NEVER allow anybody to snail mail me money for a membership because I figure it would open me up to legal problems if the feds set up a sting and had an underage person mail me money that way and get in the members area.

Anyway, does anybody know if adult processors allow pre-paid credit cards? Or is it too high risk?
And yeah, I still think that a protected members area that requires a credit card to purchase a membership to is the closest that any of us can come to keeping kids out of a paysite.

Of course there will always be exceptions. Just like in the old days of brick and mortar, there was always some kid who would figure out a way to get a subscription to Playboy (or just steal their dad's copy). But asking for ID at the convenience store was still the accepted way to keep kids from viewing it en masse

Far-L · 04-13-2012, 12:18 AM

This thread is like a bad acid flashback where you keep hoping it will end and you can just come down and be normal again.

Paul Markham · 04-13-2012, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colmike7

It makes me more in a year than I've ever made at any other job and I used to be kinda high up at Apple..

It depends on what you know how to do. There are too many n00bs think they can take a computer class at their community center or read a book and expect to be able to make money online and since they don't make money and porn is faster to access because of faster internet speeds and there is more now than before because of very cheap hosting and freehosts, they think no one is buying anymore..

Mike has said it in one.

I'm making no accusations that the content isn't 100% legal as I do not know. Just using Mike's site as an example of 100s if not 1,000s of sites.

With little money invested and probably little to run the sites, he's able to make money giving away free porn to sell advertising space. He doesn't give us a clue what the income is or where it comes from.

Is he giving away recorded porn to sell advertising space to dating and webcam sites or sell traffic? Looking at his site goldporn-tube.com I see dating, webcams and traffic. With a premium area, which I'm not sure is owned by him or a feed. Does he own all the content, is it all user submitted or given to him by sponsors?

How much of the cost of the videos, that people come to his site to view for free, was met by him or his advertisers? Could he even run the site without the contributions of porn producers?

So I clicked on a video that costs money to produce. BDSM and good from what I can see.

This is the new model of porn. Getting millions of people to look at free porn, selling clicks at a few dollars a 1,000 and losing $billions.

It's easy, cheap and makes enough to run a small business for most. Long term it will kill production of new good porn, paysites and reduce the industry to this level. There's no way out, so make money while you can and SAVE SOME. Because it will not last.

Of course people still buy porn today, just not as much as they used to in the past and more than they will in the future.

It's a model that can't be changed.

Paul Markham · 04-13-2012, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Yeah, I know how they can be used. But I don't think I've ever seen an adult join form that was set up to be used that way.

All the join forms I've seen require your first and last name, billing address, etc. and it has to match the info on the credit card. Pre-paid cards that a kid could buy at Walmart don't have that information.

I was wondering if any ADULT processors allow those?

I, for one, don't have any way to accept those that I know of. I also don't accept e-checks anymore (because of chargebacks). And I NEVER allow anybody to snail mail me money for a membership because I figure it would open me up to legal problems if the feds set up a sting and had an underage person mail me money that way and get in the members area.

Anyway, does anybody know if adult processors allow pre-paid credit cards? Or is it too high risk?
And yeah, I still think that a protected members area that requires a credit card to purchase a membership to is the closest that any of us can come to keeping kids out of a paysite.

Of course there will always be exceptions. Just like in the old days of brick and mortar, there was always some kid who would figure out a way to get a subscription to Playboy (or just steal their dad's copy). But asking for ID at the convenience store was still the accepted way to keep kids from viewing it en masse

Hardcore porn behind any sort of paid area will not save the recorded porn industry. The move to give it away for free started a long time ago and has just picked up speed.

Put ALL Manwin's tube sites behind a $1 lifetime membership and they will only filter out the complete losers who will never pay or can't pay. Yes it will keep out most kids. This thread is about sites closing while others are saying Tubes are great.

porno jew · 04-13-2012, 12:31 AM

pretty sure all his sales are regular porn site memberships.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Mike has said it in one.

I'm making no accusations that the content isn't 100% legal as I do not know. Just using Mike's site as an example of 100s if not 1,000s of sites.

With little money invested and probably little to run the sites, he's able to make money giving away free porn to sell advertising space. He doesn't give us a clue what the income is or where it comes from.

Is he giving away recorded porn to sell advertising space to dating and webcam sites or sell traffic? Looking at his site goldporn-tube.com I see dating, webcams and traffic. With a premium area, which I'm not sure is owned by him or a feed. Does he own all the content, is it all user submitted or given to him by sponsors?

How much of the cost of the videos, that people come to his site to view for free, was met by him or his advertisers? Could he even run the site without the contributions of porn producers?

So I clicked on a video that costs money to produce. BDSM and good from what I can see.

This is the new model of porn. Getting millions of people to look at free porn, selling clicks at a few dollars a 1,000 and losing $billions.

It's easy, cheap and makes enough to run a small business for most. Long term it will kill production of new good porn, paysites and reduce the industry to this level. There's no way out, so make money while you can and SAVE SOME. Because it will not last.

Of course people still buy porn today, just not as much as they used to in the past and more than they will in the future.

It's a model that can't be changed.

porno jew · 04-13-2012, 12:32 AM

paul explain to me why you can go to 6bot.com or signbucksdaily and there are new sites opening up every day. why?

Colmike9 · 04-13-2012, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Mike has said it in one.

I'm making no accusations that the content isn't 100% legal as I do not know. Just using Mike's site as an example of 100s if not 1,000s of sites.

With little money invested and probably little to run the sites, he's able to make money giving away free porn to sell advertising space. He doesn't give us a clue what the income is or where it comes from.

Is he giving away recorded porn to sell advertising space to dating and webcam sites or sell traffic? Looking at his site goldporn-tube.com I see dating, webcams and traffic. With a premium area, which I'm not sure is owned by him or a feed. Does he own all the content, is it all user submitted or given to him by sponsors?

How much of the cost of the videos, that people come to his site to view for free, was met by him or his advertisers? Could he even run the site without the contributions of porn producers?

So I clicked on a video that costs money to produce. BDSM and good from what I can see.

This is the new model of porn. Getting millions of people to look at free porn, selling clicks at a few dollars a 1,000 and losing $billions.

It's easy, cheap and makes enough to run a small business for most. Long term it will kill production of new good porn, paysites and reduce the industry to this level. There's no way out, so make money while you can and SAVE SOME. Because it will not last.

Of course people still buy porn today, just not as much as they used to in the past and more than they will in the future.

It's a model that can't be changed.

Well, that's why I keep what I do a secret for the most part. Actually goldporn-tube is a $1 boredom killer that I bought and turns out to make decent traffic CPM and a few premium and cam sales with about 600,000 video views in 2 months that took me 5 minutes to set up.. Niche blogging with keyword research is by far the best with revshare because the amount of niches that you can promote is limitless and very low competition.

BTW, figuring out what I do based on my sig will just confuse you

Colmike9 · 04-13-2012, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by porno jew

pretty sure all his sales are regular porn site memberships.

papill0n · 04-13-2012, 12:41 AM

paul crapping on about everyone else as usual

here take a look at pauls business model in full effect would ya

seems mr know-it-all has resorted to having his content distributed any way he can

even after no less than 15 trillion characters to the contrary

theres much more irony in that the imagevenue link was from pornbb.org a huge pirate forum but i couldnt be bothered going there

Paul Markham · 04-13-2012, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colmike7

Well, that's why I keep what I do a secret for the most part. Actually goldporn-tube is a $1 boredom killer that I bought and turns out to make decent traffic CPM and a few premium and cam sales with about 600,000 video views in 2 months that took me 5 minutes to set up.. Niche blogging with keyword research is by far the best with revshare because the amount of niches that you can promote is limitless and very low competition.

BTW, figuring out what I do based on my sig will just confuse you

Scared we might find out the truth?

I'm the same in our non adult enterprises.

WOW!!! that was easy to type.

Colmike9 · 04-13-2012, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Scared we might find out the truth?

I'm the same in our non adult enterprises.

WOW!!! that was easy to type.

No, because when I mention anything everyone copies it and I have to do something else..

porno jew · 04-13-2012, 12:52 AM

because people will rip off your methods? how hard is that to understand?

Colmike9 · 04-13-2012, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by porno jew

because people will rip off your methods? how hard is that to understand?

I make all of my money by doing nothing but pinging my affiliate links that I get in my emails

Paul Markham · 04-13-2012, 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colmike7

No, because when I mention anything everyone copies it and I have to do something else..

It's that simple to do and no one else has figured it out yet.

I was in a much better trade, I could write a book on how to do it, tell people what I was doing, where I was doing it, who I was selling to. and they still couldn't compete with me or the 100 others who were doing it.

That's the benefit of having a real skill.

And please don't come back with a personal jibe because there were a lot of others shooting for $3,000 a set non exclusive and the custom shooters couldn't get into our business.

This of course is the downfall for a lot of online people. Few do anything that can't be copied or learned in every short space of time. So you do something so successful, that's easy to copy and so far few have found out about it.

That makes a lot of sense.

porno jew · 04-13-2012, 01:19 AM

paul absolutely no one gives fuck. you insult mike. he never said anything bad about you.

you are just a bitter lonely old fuck whose whole life work is a bunch of crappy content of bored and scared overlit eastern european teen girls not one wants any more. congrats on your "talent."

Paul Markham · 04-13-2012, 01:24 AM

Mike, PJ, butterfly and a lot more high lite the problem with online porn.

No one knows what they do, who they are or if they make $500 a week or $5,000. Yet someone with content stores and paysites and the financial ability to keep it all running and making money, 4 years after a devastating accident effectively closed the business. Is the butt of their jibs as someone who knows nothing.

Yet when they do post something the whole thing has holes in it. Sounds illogical and frankly far fetched.

Like when a man sits on a desk, dressed like a tramp and proceeds to tell the audience his firm, that no one knows much about, has just got a 9 figure investment from Wall Street backers.

Yet so many here swallowed it as logical.

Just no one who has been in a real business for 30 plus years? We ask questions. We know how it really works.

And 5 months later, where is all this money?

Like Mike, he's nt telling because others might paste and copy his ideas.

04-09-2012, 07:32 PM	#101
pornsprite Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 1,643	Best thread of the day for sure and very informative to a virtual newb like me. __________________ Go Fuck Yourself

04-09-2012, 08:18 PM	#106
Barry-xlovecam It's 42 Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Global Posts: 18,083	When cometh the force? Read AMERICAN CIVIL LIBERTIES UNION v. MUKASEY http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-3rd-circuit/1061929.html This is the "PRECEDENTIAL" COPA Decision of the US Federal Appellate Court for the Third Circuit. I don't see how some new law will pass constitutional muster in face of this decision. For myself, so long as some new USA law or some international agreement on this subject does not create a burdensome obstacle for all nationalities restricting access to explicit adult content to adults I have no problem with it. Generally speaking, minors don't purchase porn anyway. We use an adult verification script also but in reality a user can insert any birth date -- it is only a good faith effort and it is no more than a reasonable effort. We only offer "hardcore" sex shows to credit card buyers only but even a 14 year old can buy a prepaid VISA card and fake his age -- there are far worse crimes in reality but we do make a reasonable effort to provide adult entertainment that is restricted to lawful adults in most cases. So called "tube sites" do not make this effort and in the arena of public opinion they don't give a shit and considering where much of their content comes from are you at all surprised? However, as of the current technology of today, I see no way this could be possible under US Constitutional rulings as did the Court in the above cited case ... Bottom line, tubes have taken the traffic -- by whatever means -- and they own the bulk advertising market now. Sort of like Sir Issac Newton's First Law of Motion: I. Every object in a state of uniform motion tends to remain in that state of motion unless an external force is applied to it. When cometh the force?

04-09-2012, 09:50 PM	#111
dgraves Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Scottsdale Posts: 2,283	I wasn't around when TGP's/MGP's first started. Was it a similar situation just on a smaller scale? __________________ Gloryhole Swallow \| Cumpsters \| Spy Tug \| Cum Clinic \| Chica's Place

04-09-2012, 10:19 PM	#112
Rmagnus Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 749	so where are we (affiliates) headed too? same question, where paysites headed to in a couple of years? __________________ Magnus Bucks - HD Japanese, Shemale, Gay and Straight Sites icq: 617-695-708

04-10-2012, 12:31 AM	#116
SeanLEE Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 1,556	Upload your videos to our tube!!! INSTANTLY! http://video.xzye.com/upload/ <--Video Upload Form! http://video.xzye.com <--Our Tube! __________________ I spammed in threads! Last edited by SeanLEE; 04-10-2012 at 12:32 AM..

04-12-2012, 02:22 PM	#120
signupdamnit Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 6,697	Thanks for the responses so far where people put some thought into it besides merely making ridiculous comments or kissing someone's ass. I do understand that on some level the exposure can help to get your brand out there where previously it was unknown. Especially if your content is a lot better than anyone in your niche or even better you are the only site in the niche. But I still hold that eventually your full scene content getting out there is going to come back to bite you at some point. Any advantage you have also erodes with time as your competitors join in the game. Soon when 12 of your competitors are releasing full scenes (or have them stolen) it's going to effect you too to some extent because x% of surfers will settle for the free content your competitors have made available on the tube rather than use yours. It doesn't matter how much better your content is because to some extent you are going to lose a certain percentage of sales. As many state you are training the customer to not pay for porn. Don't believe me? Check out this link: https://www.google.com/#hl=en&safe=o...or+porn%22+lol 1. "lol at people who pay for porn" 2. does anyone actually pay for porn anymore? [Archive] 3. Just pay for porn, already 4. Why pay for Porn when you can get it free? - The Debate Team 5. Pay for porn? lol -- LiveWire Teen Forums See the problem yet? No offense but if you are a pay site owner and you can't see a problem with this then I don't know what more to say. The only thing I can think of is that you don't plan to sell membership based websites in the long term future. But the real issue here isn't the tube model or even user uploads. The real issue is theft. If a paysite owner is stupid enough to upload their member's area to PornHub then they have every right to do that. __________________ You don't like my posts? Put me on ignore or fuck right off. I'll say what I want. Last edited by signupdamnit; 04-12-2012 at 02:25 PM..

04-12-2012, 04:19 PM	#122
dgraves Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Scottsdale Posts: 2,283	It's an important topic but pointless to discuss until the laws change that protect thieves. __________________ Gloryhole Swallow \| Cumpsters \| Spy Tug \| Cum Clinic \| Chica's Place

04-12-2012, 07:49 PM	#126
Colmike9 (>^_^)b Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 7,224	To answer the threads question: It's the same thing as asking 'why do restaurants and stores go out of business every day yet people still eat every day?' So there's no point in making up a reason.. __________________ Join the BEST cam affiliate program on the internet! I've referred over $1.7mil in spending this past year, you should join in. I make a lot more money in the medical field in a lab now, fuck you guys. Don't ask me to come back, but do join Chaturbate in my sig, it still makes bank without me touching shit for years..

04-12-2012, 09:49 PM	#130
Paul Markham Too old to care Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: On the sofa, watching TV or doing my jigsaws. Posts: 52,943	Back to the subject. If tubes like pornhub are so great for sponsors then why are sites still closing? Tubes like Pornhub are for many the best game in town today. Also sponsors will paid a rosy picture in the hope some affiliates will be fooled into sending them traffic. Try selling these sponsors, who are doing so well, some content and you'll soon see the truth. They will tell you that things aren't so good. The good thing Tubes do is bring millions of people together with free recorded porn and allow them to sell ad space to cam sites, dating and a few paysites. I believe there's a new law on the table that replaces COPA. That tells me one thing. The US Government recognise the problem and are not relying on "parental control" to solve the problem. The notion that a payment will solve the problem of free porn destroying the industry is a far fetched as the one that giving away free porn generated sales. $1 life time membership to Pornhub and it complies with a "payment law" and gets rid of the complete losers without a CC. They might even support such an act. __________________ Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500. PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

04-12-2012, 09:52 PM	#131
porno jew Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 10,166	why are some sites closing and why are there plenty of new sites appearing on 6bot.com every day? there is the real question and i demand a fucking answer.

04-13-2012, 12:18 AM	#136
Far-L Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 6,075	This thread is like a bad acid flashback where you keep hoping it will end and you can just come down and be normal again. __________________ HomegrownCash.com, the affiliate program of Homegrown Video - The Largest Collection of Amateur XXX - Est. 1982. Contact - Email: farrell AT homegrownvideo D com Skype: hgfarl Newsweek Magazine - "Homegrown Video, the longest running series in the history of porn."

04-13-2012, 12:32 AM	#140
porno jew Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 10,166	paul explain to me why you can go to 6bot.com or signbucksdaily and there are new sites opening up every day. why?

04-13-2012, 12:41 AM	#143
papill0n Unregistered Abuser Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 15,547	paul crapping on about everyone else as usual here take a look at pauls business model in full effect would ya seems mr know-it-all has resorted to having his content distributed any way he can even after no less than 15 trillion characters to the contrary theres much more irony in that the imagevenue link was from pornbb.org a huge pirate forum but i couldnt be bothered going there

04-13-2012, 12:52 AM	#146
porno jew Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 10,166	because people will rip off your methods? how hard is that to understand?

04-13-2012, 01:19 AM	#149
porno jew Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 10,166	paul absolutely no one gives fuck. you insult mike. he never said anything bad about you. you are just a bitter lonely old fuck whose whole life work is a bunch of crappy content of bored and scared overlit eastern european teen girls not one wants any more. congrats on your "talent."

04-13-2012, 01:24 AM	#150
Paul Markham Too old to care Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: On the sofa, watching TV or doing my jigsaws. Posts: 52,943	Mike, PJ, butterfly and a lot more high lite the problem with online porn. No one knows what they do, who they are or if they make $500 a week or $5,000. Yet someone with content stores and paysites and the financial ability to keep it all running and making money, 4 years after a devastating accident effectively closed the business. Is the butt of their jibs as someone who knows nothing. Yet when they do post something the whole thing has holes in it. Sounds illogical and frankly far fetched. Like when a man sits on a desk, dressed like a tramp and proceeds to tell the audience his firm, that no one knows much about, has just got a 9 figure investment from Wall Street backers. Yet so many here swallowed it as logical. Just no one who has been in a real business for 30 plus years? We ask questions. We know how it really works. And 5 months later, where is all this money? Like Mike, he's nt telling because others might paste and copy his ideas. __________________ Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500. PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70