If tubes like pornhub are so great for sponsors then why are sites still closing? - Page 4 - GoFuckYourself.com

porno jew · 04-13-2012, 01:28 AM

ok whatever. no one likes you, thinks you are smart, interesting, have any talent or did anything remotely interesting with your life except creep on your models which i guess is interesting in a way like a late night horror movie about a serial killer or rapist. nothing more. enjoy your life.

Colmike9 · 04-13-2012, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Like Mike, he's nt telling because others might paste and copy his ideas.

Because my ideas took years of programming and web development background to figure out how to do on my own. A couple of my techniques I have told some people about step by step and they still can't figure it out because it's too complicated...

Whatever happened in the industry in the past, I don't give a fuck. I started literally as a starving college kid with -$2000 and couldn't eat half the time who found some old computers in an alley using an intermittant internet connection 2 blocks away using xp that loaded to a black black screen and restarted without warning every 45 minutes. I highly doubt many others can go from that to 6 figure bank acct in a year and a half.

Have fun taking pictures

Paul Markham · 04-13-2012, 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colmike7

Because my ideas took years of programming and web development background to figure out how to do on my own. A couple of my techniques I have told some people about step by step and they still can't figure it out because it's too complicated...

So tell us if we can't copy it. wasn't that the earlier excuse?

Quote:

Whatever happened in the industry in the past, I don't give a fuck. I started literally as a starving college kid with -$2000 and couldn't eat half the time who found some old computers in an alley using an intermittant internet connection 2 blocks away using xp that loaded to a black black screen and restarted without warning every 45 minutes. I highly doubt many others can go from that to 6 figure bank acct in a year and a half.

And then became a senior person at Apple. All makes sense now.

Quote:

Have fun taking pictures

A lot more fun than tapping on a keyboard and probably a lot more profitable.

I'm now editing some 20 year old videos to add to the retro site. Still making money off work done and paid for 2 decades ago.

And don't have to hide the fact.

Mike I don't know if you're a multi millionaire or posting from your living room.

And you don't know the same about me. you guess I didn't make money based on what you can see. A site full of content I own and sold to magazines, paysites, mobile phones, DVD and own a couple of paysites. Ran a business that employed 8 people, squealer will tell you this is true. Stayed in the porn business 35 years, still taking money 4 years after Eva's accident, something that would close most of the people here.

And I retired living in my cottage in the country. While playing on GFY with people who have to work to pay the rent or mortgage.

And I'm the poor one.

Colmike9 · 04-13-2012, 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

So tell us if we can't copy it. wasn't that the earlier excuse?

I tell people that I like some techniques on blogging and most of the time they sign up with one of my affiliate links and that makes me more than you think.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

And then became a senior person at Apple. All makes sense now.

Not my fault that the fucking office closed and I couldn't relocate since I was still in school..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

A lot more fun than tapping on a keyboard and probably a lot more profitable.

I'm now editing some 20 year old videos to add to the retro site. Still making money off work done and paid for 2 decades ago.

And don't have to hide the fact.

Mike I don't know if you're a multi millionaire or posting from your living room.

And you don't know the same about me. you guess I didn't make money based on what you can see. A site full of content I own and sold to magazines, paysites, mobile phones, DVD and own a couple of paysites. Ran a business that employed 8 people, squealer will tell you this is true. Stayed in the porn business 35 years, still taking money 4 years after Eva's accident, something that would close most of the people here.

And I retired living in my cottage in the country. While playing on GFY with people who have to work to pay the rent or mortgage.

And I'm the poor one.

I can retire if I wanted to at age 25 and in less than 2 years and without being in the industry in the prime and also bought my dads house for him and pay rent/bills so he can live there after he lost his job and I gave my brother $10,000 last month to help out.
There's just no reason for me to stop since I just work whenever I want and take my laptop with me wherever I go and this kind of work is fun.

BTW, I also sell a lot of retro porn memberships, but I don't use retro methods to sell them..

ThePornTubeGuy · 04-13-2012, 03:53 AM

Great thread and interesting views on the tubes and the sales a content owner does or does not make.

An intro on my background. My name is JT and I was a founding Partner/Director of YouPorn.com from late 2006 until we sold to Manwin in May 2011. My role was Director of Business Development and I was responsible for monetizing the traffic which we grew to 370m monthly visitors. We grew this traffic via word of mouth by giving a better user experience than your competition, we didn't buy any traffic. That great user experiance was founded primarily on the content. Without great content, the visitors to your tube disappear.

This made us launch the first ever Content Publishing Program in early 2007. We knew from our data that if we promoted the publisher of the video that the user was watching, with an affiliated banner under the video player, that a % of our free users would click through to their website. Then it was down to the sponsor to convert these visitors into paying members. Naughty America and CDGirls were the first publishers to work with us and give us licensed tube clips in return for our traffic. They both recorded in excess of 3,000 new members to their sites that month. Upon sale to Manwin, we handled over 2,000 brands in our YouPorn Content Publishing Program, and we were one of the largest affiliates on the planet.

We had huge amounts of data at our disposal regarding customer behaviour and the types of content they liked and what length of clip this needed to be. We knew that certain clips performed significantly better than others when they contained a beginning, middle and an end to the clip. We had without doubt the most revolutionary algorithms ever used on a tube which enabled us to deliver a "related" and "recommended to you" section (amongst other things) to each and every user. This enabled us to get YouPorn to over 110million daily page impressions and an average time on site per visit of just over 10 minutes. As the recent extremetech article reports, YouPorn accounts for around 2% of the daily internet traffic.

But none of this is possible without the best content. We embarked on a huge content buying spree that started in 2007 and we ended up spending millions of dollars over the years licensing all niches of content to have this edited into tube specific clips and to give this out for free to our users. Of course, we used to release some full scenes too, but mainly, tube specific clips that we had edited. We also worked closely with many of the publishers, advising them on how to edit clips, what length they should be etc etc. Of course, in 2007, we were hard pushed to get 3 min edits from our publishers. We then started pushing for 5 min edits and then 7 min edits. Now the optimum length of a clip to be giving to the tubes is 10 minutes. Those that listen to us, make bank. Look at BackRoomCastingCouch, one of the most successful pay sites ever to utilise the tube traffic. At one point, BackRoomCastingCouch was the 2nd most searched for keyword on YouPorn, and we handled over 650m searches a month!

Fast forward to today and I am doing it all over again at PornTube.com. You will not be surprised to hear that we have built THE BEST Content Publishing Platform in the market place today. We have many features such as multiple upload, upload by CSV, clip scheduler (so YOU remain in control of when your clips go live) and and in depth stats panel for you to see the stats for each individual clip. We have also released a PornTube Content Publishing Program Guide that gives you an insight into the mind of a tube user and "How to sell a membership to someone who consumes porn for free". You can download this by clicking the link in my signature.

We really are here to help you make the most of the millions of eyeballs at your disposal every day, and not just on PornTube. We have embarked on several successful tube campaigns for Content Publishers too, where we work closely with the other major tubes to make sure you are best positioned to expose your brand to millions of users and potential new members each day. So please reach out to us for details.

Directly after the sale of YouPorn, I decided to put everything I preached into practice, so, for the record, I also own the production company Really Useful Ltd. I have the sites Orgasms.xxx (launched 7 months ago) Casting.xxx (8 months ago) DaneJones.com FakeAgent.com and Lesbea.com (all 3 months ago) with a further 6 sites currently in production, with a whole network of sites planned for 2013 onwards. All content is exclusive to my network, we shoot all content ourselves and have an in house team of some of the best editors in the game. We have even just hired someone who's sole purpose is to upload our content to the tubes, all day, every day.

90% of my traffic is tube related (click thrus and the "golden" direct type ins) and I am doing on average 200-220 new sign ups/rebills a day and growing each month. With CCBill (main biller) I have an average transaction value of $31 USD (I do not run $1 promos) and under 0.3% CB ratio. Not surprisingly, the average length of my tube specific edited clips are 10 mins, they have a beginning, middle and an ending, and we put our newest and best content online. Quite simply, we can not shoot content quick enough to put it on the tubes for free. We are also nailing it on the VOD's too.

So, you can see that I come from both sides of the industry and have considerable experience with both. Please download the PornTube Content Publishing Platform Guide to find out more. (and to find out how you can get ALL of your traffic from PornTube affiliate link free, meaning you keep 100% of all the sales we make for you!).

Mutt · 04-13-2012, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePornTubeGuy

Great thread and interesting views on the tubes and the sales a content owner does or does not make.

An intro on my background. My name is JT and I was a founding Partner/Director of YouPorn.com from late 2006 until we sold to Manwin in May 2011. My role was Director of Business Development and I was responsible for monetizing the traffic which we grew to 370m monthly visitors. We grew this traffic via word of mouth by giving a better user experience than your competition, we didn't buy any traffic. That great user experiance was founded primarily on the content. Without great content, the visitors to your tube disappear.

This made us launch the first ever Content Publishing Program in early 2007. We knew from our data that if we promoted the publisher of the video that the user was watching, with an affiliated banner under the video player, that a % of our free users would click through to their website. Then it was down to the sponsor to convert these visitors into paying members. Naughty America and CDGirls were the first publishers to work with us and give us licensed tube clips in return for our traffic. They both recorded in excess of 3,000 new members to their sites that month. Upon sale to Manwin, we handled over 2,000 brands in our YouPorn Content Publishing Program, and we were one of the largest affiliates on the planet.

We had huge amounts of data at our disposal regarding customer behaviour and the types of content they liked and what length of clip this needed to be. We knew that certain clips performed significantly better than others when they contained a beginning, middle and an end to the clip. We had without doubt the most revolutionary algorithms ever used on a tube which enabled us to deliver a "related" and "recommended to you" section (amongst other things) to each and every user. This enabled us to get YouPorn to over 110million daily page impressions and an average time on site per visit of just over 10 minutes. As the recent extremetech article reports, YouPorn accounts for around 2% of the daily internet traffic.

But none of this is possible without the best content. We embarked on a huge content buying spree that started in 2007 and we ended up spending millions of dollars over the years licensing all niches of content to have this edited into tube specific clips and to give this out for free to our users. Of course, we used to release some full scenes too, but mainly, tube specific clips that we had edited. We also worked closely with many of the publishers, advising them on how to edit clips, what length they should be etc etc. Of course, in 2007, we were hard pushed to get 3 min edits from our publishers. We then started pushing for 5 min edits and then 7 min edits. Now the optimum length of a clip to be giving to the tubes is 10 minutes. Those that listen to us, make bank. Look at BackRoomCastingCouch, one of the most successful pay sites ever to utilise the tube traffic. At one point, BackRoomCastingCouch was the 2nd most searched for keyword on YouPorn, and we handled over 650m searches a month!

Fast forward to today and I am doing it all over again at PornTube.com. You will not be surprised to hear that we have built THE BEST Content Publishing Platform in the market place today. We have many features such as multiple upload, upload by CSV, clip scheduler (so YOU remain in control of when your clips go live) and and in depth stats panel for you to see the stats for each individual clip. We have also released a PornTube Content Publishing Program Guide that gives you an insight into the mind of a tube user and "How to sell a membership to someone who consumes porn for free". You can download this by clicking the link in my signature.

We really are here to help you make the most of the millions of eyeballs at your disposal every day, and not just on PornTube. We have embarked on several successful tube campaigns for Content Publishers too, where we work closely with the other major tubes to make sure you are best positioned to expose your brand to millions of users and potential new members each day. So please reach out to us for details.

Directly after the sale of YouPorn, I decided to put everything I preached into practice, so, for the record, I also own the production company Really Useful Ltd. I have the sites Orgasms.xxx (launched 7 months ago) Casting.xxx (8 months ago) DaneJones.com FakeAgent.com and Lesbea.com (all 3 months ago) with a further 6 sites currently in production, with a whole network of sites planned for 2013 onwards. All content is exclusive to my network, we shoot all content ourselves and have an in house team of some of the best editors in the game. We have even just hired someone who's sole purpose is to upload our content to the tubes, all day, every day.

90% of my traffic is tube related (click thrus and the "golden" direct type ins) and I am doing on average 200-220 new sign ups/rebills a day and growing each month. With CCBill (main biller) I have an average transaction value of $31 USD (I do not run $1 promos) and under 0.3% CB ratio. Not surprisingly, the average length of my tube specific edited clips are 10 mins, they have a beginning, middle and an ending, and we put our newest and best content online. Quite simply, we can not shoot content quick enough to put it on the tubes for free. We are also nailing it on the VOD's too.

So, you can see that I come from both sides of the industry and have considerable experience with both. Please download the PornTube Content Publishing Platform Guide to find out more. (and to find out how you can get ALL of your traffic from PornTube affiliate link free, meaning you keep 100% of all the sales we make for you!).

so from your inside knowledge of what sites are popular and are making huge sales off tubes you went out and hired people to copy them - which is legal, cheesy but legal. Orgasms.xxx = bad clone of X-Art, Castings.xxx = bad clone of BackroomCastingCouch

true that the owner of BackroomCastingCouch is a partner in Castings.xxx?

ThePornTubeGuy · 04-13-2012, 05:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mutt

so from your inside knowledge of what sites are popular and are making huge sales off tubes you went out and hired people to copy them - which is legal, cheesy but legal. Orgasms.xxx = bad clone of X-Art, Castings.xxx = bad clone of BackroomCastingCouch

true that the owner of BackroomCastingCouch is a partner in Castings.xxx?

I am not sure that my sites are bad clones of x-art and BRCC, Its just this is the type of content that sells. Have a look at Passion-HD, they are killing it on the tubes, because they can see that if you shoot the best sensual erotic content, in HD, with the best lighting and cameras, and edit this into tube specific 10 minute clips, that you will make bank from the tubes.

No, BRCC is nothing to do with my site, however, they do promote my site in their members area and get GREAT sign-ups!

Barry-xlovecam · 04-13-2012, 06:32 AM

On adult verification, put this baby to rest already in the USA ...

This US Appeals Court Case is FINAL all appeals exhausted WRITTEN IN STONE

Quote:

No. 07-2539 (2008)

PRECEDENTIAL
UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS
FOR THE THIRD CIRCUIT
No. 07-2539 (2008)
AMERICAN CIVIL LIBERTIES UNION, et al v. MICHAEL B. MUKASEY, in his official capacity

Permanent Injunction sustained ...

http://www.ca3.uscourts.gov/opinarch/072539p.pdf

Page 31;
The court later explained, ?[t]he affirmative defenses cannot cure COPA?s failure to be narrowly tailored because they are effectively unavailable. Credit cards, debit accounts, adult access codes, and adult personal identification numbers do not in fact verify age. As a result, their use does not, in good faith, ?restrict [] access? by minors.? Id. at 811 (second alteration in original) (quoting 47 U.S.C. § 231(c)(1)(A)).

Page 33;

The Government argues that the District Court erred in rejecting the limiting effect of COPA?s affirmative defenses. It contends that ?[t]he possibility that some minors may have access to credit cards merely demonstrates that no system of age verification is foolproof. It does not call into question the availability of credit card screening as an affirmative defense that tailors COPA more narrowly.? Appellant?s Br. at 37. The Government also argues that ?the court ignored testimony that minors do not have access to traditional payment cards under their own control but simply have access to cards supervised by adults.? Id. But the District Court found that even if there is parental supervision of payment card use, the supervision does not prevent access to harmful material by minors because parents ?may not be able to identify transactions on sexually explicit Web sites because the adult nature of such transactions is often not readily identifiable . . . .? Gonzales, 478 F. Supp. 2d at 802. In any event, we conclude that the District Court correctly found that the affirmative defenses are ?effectively unavailable? because they do not actually verify age.

Page 50;

In addition to being more effective, it is clear that filters are less restrictive than COPA. As the Supreme Court has stated: [f]ilters are less restrictive than COPA. They impose selective restrictions on speech at the receiving end, not universal restrictions at the source. Under a filtering regime, adults without children may gain access to speech they have a right to see without having to identify themselves or provide their credit card information. Even adults with children may obtain access to the same speech on the same terms simply by turning off the filter on their home computers. Above all, promoting the use of filters does not condemn as criminal any category of speech, and so the potential chilling effect is eliminated, or at least much diminished. All of these things are true, moreover, regardless of how broadly or narrowly the definitions in COPA are construed ...

This whole matter of the "credit card" or other adult verification as stated above "[C]redit cards, debit accounts, adult access codes, and adult personal identification numbers do not in fact verify age. As a result, their use does not, in good faith, ?restrict [] access? by minors.? Id. at 811 (second alteration in original) (quoting 47 U.S.C. § 231(c)(1)(A)). ..." is an issue already settled in the COPA case in 2008 -- its a dead horse now and a red herring argument.

Thread: If tubes like pornhub are so great for sponsors then why are sites still closing?

Answer is: Pay Sites got out maneuvered -- content theft was taken to a new level, a perverse marketing strategy. Free download traffic was commoditized then monetized.

Stream your new content in a manner that it cannot be downloaded and consequently stolen -- don't leave the barn door open so the new horses get stolen ... The Great Wall of China was built for a reason (221-206 BC) during the Qin Dynasty. To stop the barbarians and China survived (at considerable construction costs).

If you think that the US Government will be the White Night to save the Porn Industry you are dreaming ... Best possibility is no new laws and just being left to our own 'self-regulation'. (That's a good one.)</sarcasm>.

TheSquealer · 04-13-2012, 08:27 AM

This whole conversation about tube traffic not converting is comical. Does TGP traffic convert? If you would have asked that question 8 years ago... the answers would have ranged from "i'm doing 1:50" to "fuck no! i'm at 1:40,000 and tgps suck ass".

You have an interested prospect in your product. Porn was always free. Porn has always been free. Users have always found paysites via free content. Whether or not he actually buys depends on a multitude of factors - and while others are killing it with tubes, there are also those insisting its a waste or time or "much much worse than... " - page structure, eye flow, a simple headline, call to action text, layout, image choice etc etc etc etc etc etc etc all come together to determine whether you are the 1:100 guy or the 1:100,000 guy. The funny thing is that so few in this biz stop to ask "how do i improve this" -- "how do i test" and so on and so forth... instead, everyone blames the traffic and continues doing poorly and never really learn a thing and end up doing nothing but bitching, complaining and blaming.

signupdamnit · 04-13-2012, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colmike7

To answer the threads question: It's the same thing as asking 'why do restaurants and stores go out of business every day yet people still eat every day?'

So there's no point in making up a reason..

With all due respect it isn't and is entirely different. From what I see you're fairly new to adult. Your join date is a few months ago and all your sites seem new too as do your affiliate links seem to show high user id numbers so I surmise that you probably weren't in this industry even a year or two ago let alone five. There's nothing wrong with that but I think most people who have been in the industry for a while understand the question and what I am getting at. You just don't have very much to compare it to and you're still a bit of a newbie to the industry. You're probably comparing the way things are now to how they were in December 2011 which is entirely different than comparing now to December 1998 or even December 2005.

There's no need to make up a reason when many of the people leaving have said straight out why they are getting out. It's usually some variation of "everything is available for free", "everything of mine is stolen", "I can make more money in mainstream now because adult hardly sells anymore", etc. Which brings us back to the question of if all these people could make money hand over fist (more than they made before in the Golden or silver years of porn) simply by posting a few full length clips from their member's area why would they not do that if it were so easy and guaranteed? The common sense answer is that it isn't for most. Sure there are some cases where it's different and sure someone who wasn't even making one sale a day in the past might benefit but this is not the case for most established people in the adult business.

The Porn Nerd · 04-13-2012, 08:59 AM

Links pulled.
Oh wait -
There is no money in porn.
Oh wait -
Your funds are in motion.
Oh wait -
Sales are great!
Oh wait -
Nevermind.

Paul Markham · 04-13-2012, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

With all due respect it isn't and is entirely different. From what I see you're fairly new to adult. Your join date is a few months ago and all your sites seem new too as do your affiliate links seem to show high user id numbers so I surmise that you probably weren't in this industry even a year or two ago let alone five. There's nothing wrong with that but I think most people who have been in the industry for a while understand the question and what I am getting at. You just don't have very much to compare it to and you're still a bit of a newbie to the industry. You're probably comparing the way things are now to how they were in December 2011 which is entirely different than comparing now to December 1998 or even December 2005.

There's no need to make up a reason when many of the people leaving have said straight out why they are getting out. It's usually some variation of "everything is available for free", "everything of mine is stolen", "I can make more money in mainstream now because adult hardly sells anymore", etc. Which brings us back to the question of if all these people could make money hand over fist (more than they made before in the Golden or silver years of porn) simply by posting a few full length clips from their member's area why would they not do that if it were so easy and guaranteed? The common sense answer is that it isn't for most. Sure there are some cases where it's different and sure someone who wasn't even making one sale a day in the past might benefit but this is not the case for most established people in the adult business.

He has something that he's scared people will copy and the people he explained it to still couldn't copy him.

When someone like ThePornTubeGuy sees youtube and realises a porn version would make money. The snowball starts rolling down the hill it gathers speed and size and picks up millions of surfers. Surfers who (A) never bought porn, (B) occasionally bought porn and (C) always bought porn. And converted many of (B) to (A) and many of (C) into (B). He did well, others suffered.

As more copied him, because it's not hard to copy. The main stay of porn was devastated. Those few making a nice living out of them think it's a great way to make money. Those buying ad space on sites with no adult verification that works love it to death.

The majority are looking at a declining income and wondering what to do next.

Orgasms.xxx is nice romantic sex, could do with some better lighting to set a better mood.

casting.xxx needs a talker with personality watch Ben Dover to see how it should be done. I have some better ideas for shooting this, if you're interested.

signupdamnit · 04-13-2012, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

This whole conversation about tube traffic not converting is comical. Does TGP traffic convert? If you would have asked that question 8 years ago... the answers would have ranged from "i'm doing 1:50" to "fuck no! i'm at 1:40,000 and tgps suck ass".

You have an interested prospect in your product. Porn was always free. Porn has always been free. Users have always found paysites via free content. Whether or not he actually buys depends on a multitude of factors - and while others are killing it with tubes, there are also those insisting its a waste or time or "much much worse than... " - page structure, eye flow, a simple headline, call to action text, layout, image choice etc etc etc etc etc etc etc all come together to determine whether you are the 1:100 guy or the 1:100,000 guy. The funny thing is that so few in this biz stop to ask "how do i improve this" -- "how do i test" and so on and so forth... instead, everyone blames the traffic and continues doing poorly and never really learn a thing and end up doing nothing but bitching, complaining and blaming.

It's not just that it doesn't convert but also that it has a horrible ctr (often you get one small text link and whatever watermark you have which only makes this worse). The ctr is the real killer and it only compounds with the usual poor conversion rate. Thus the 1,000,000 video impressions to make one to three sales.

So in a month maybe a tube like Youporn will give you 1- 3 sales and 1,000,000 impressions. But now what is the opportunity cost of those 1,000,000 impressions where you gave out a full scene? What negative effect will it have on other marketing campaigns?

If you were previously doing 50 affiliate sales a day from your affiliate program with say 100 direct sales a day and you start blanketing these tubes with full scenes making for say 50,000,000 video impressions per month at a .75% ctr and a conversion rate 1:3,000 then:

50,000,000 * .0075 = 375 000 raw hits to your site per month from tubes
375,000 / 3000 = 125 sales from tubes in one month.
= 4.1 sales a day from the tubes

At first let's say the effect on your affiliate and direct sales is negligible. Let's just say for every month you do this affiliate and direct sales will decrease by 4% (compounding).

Month 0:

Tube sales - 0
Affiliate sales - 1500
Direct sales - 3000

Total sales - 4500

Month 1:

Tube sales - 125
Affiliate sales - 1440
Direct sales - 2880

Total sales - 4445

Month 2:

Tube sales - 125
Affiliate sales - 1382
Direct sales - 2765

Total Sales - 4272

Month 3:

Tube sales - 125
Affiliate sales - 1327
Direct sales - 2654

Total Sales - 4106

....And look at that. You're actually LOSING sales by giving out all that content. Sure you're gaining some tube sales but it's having a negative effect on your Direct and Affiliate sales. Even taking into account the affiliate's cut you are still losing. This is because there is an opportunity cost involved in giving out all that content freely. Namely in our example for every month you give out all that content for free (and it builds more and more) your Direct and Affiliate sales decrease 4%.

You can play around with the numbers and say make it a 1% decrease and a Tube ctr of 1% with a conversion rate of 1:2,000 and the same thing would happen and you will lose money. Mathematically this will always be true as long as the tube $/impression is less than what your direct and affiliate sales are bringing in and as long as the tube campaign has a negative impact (which is almost guaranteed if you are giving out full scenes or nearly so). These numbers also do not take into account that as you give out more content on the tube those ctr and conversion rates should aslo get worse. To do it properly you should also degrade both of those numbers too by a certain percentage. Say 3%. IOW, you'll see diminishing returns from the tube campaign as well.

There's even a big difference between a tube such as Pornhub and a legal tube an affiliate might have. With your average so-called legal tube the affiliate usually pushes your site fairly hard with a couple banners and links leading to your site in addition to any watermarks. Naturally that means a much higher ctr than on a tube where you only get a small text link and your watermark.

Pornhub · 04-13-2012, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePornTubeGuy

Great thread and interesting views on the tubes and the sales a content owner does or does not make.(...)

Shhh! JT, people here think that tube traffic doesn't convert. You are ruining a very entertaining conversation

Also, they don't believe a lot of the videos are uploaded by the sponsors themselves. Come on, don't dissapoint them and tell them that tubes loose money and youporn was sold because it was loosing too much money

We are making a workshop in miami on our sponsored video program, hope to see you there

Pornhub · 04-13-2012, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

If you were previously doing 50 affiliate sales a day from your affiliate program with say 100 direct sales a day and you start blanketing these tubes with full scenes making for say 50,000,000 video impressions per month at a .75% ctr and a conversion rate 1:3,000 then:

Numbers are wrong, you have no idea what 50M views of great content will do to your direct sales... not talking hundreds of sales, thousands ;) But obviously, who is going to believe me. Those that are raking in the sales, keep their mouth shut (exept JT) because they don't want more competition ranking their videos in the top.

Come to Xbiz miami, we will bring some numbers (without divulging which sponsors)

signupdamnit · 04-13-2012, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pornhub

Shhh! JT, people here think that tube traffic doesn't convert. You are ruining a very entertaining conversation

Also, they don't believe a lot of the videos are uploaded by the sponsors themselves. Come on, don't dissapoint them and tell them that tubes loose money and youporn was sold because it was loosing too much money

We are making a workshop in miami on our sponsored video program, hope to see you there

They say when you hit a guy and he smiles back at you only then do you know he is hurt.

Sure it's easy to profit off of such a model when you are stealing everyone else's content and destroying the businesses of others. It's a different story when it is your content which is being devalued and where you are losing direct and affiliate sales for it. People will kiss your ass because you have money but I guarantee at least 9/10 reading this know there is a lot of truth to what has been said.

ThePornTubeGuy · 04-13-2012, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

This whole conversation about tube traffic not converting is comical. Does TGP traffic convert? If you would have asked that question 8 years ago... the answers would have ranged from "i'm doing 1:50" to "fuck no! i'm at 1:40,000 and tgps suck ass".

You have an interested prospect in your product. Porn was always free. Porn has always been free. Users have always found paysites via free content. Whether or not he actually buys depends on a multitude of factors - and while others are killing it with tubes, there are also those insisting its a waste or time or "much much worse than... " - page structure, eye flow, a simple headline, call to action text, layout, image choice etc etc etc etc etc etc etc all come together to determine whether you are the 1:100 guy or the 1:100,000 guy. The funny thing is that so few in this biz stop to ask "how do i improve this" -- "how do i test" and so on and so forth... instead, everyone blames the traffic and continues doing poorly and never really learn a thing and end up doing nothing but bitching, complaining and blaming.

For that exact reason, we run a managed tube campaign for any publisher wanting to make a success of the tube traffic. Its very easy to get it wrong!

signupdamnit · 04-13-2012, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pornhub

Numbers are wrong, you have no idea what 50M views of great content will do to your direct sales... not talking hundreds of sales, thousands ;) But obviously, who is going to believe me. Those that are raking in the sales, keep their mouth shut (exept JT) because they don't want more competition ranking their videos in the top.

Come to Xbiz miami, we will bring some numbers (without divulging which sponsors)

Show some numbers here then. What's the ctr and average conversion rate? Not just some Cherry picked numbers but the real ones most people see. I've seen many posts here over time and it's always at least 1:1000 (usually 1:2000 or more). That's not very bad actually but the real killer is usually the ctr which is horrible. Even when one tries to account for increased type ins.

ThePornTubeGuy · 04-13-2012, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pornhub

Numbers are wrong, you have no idea what 50M views of great content will do to your direct sales... not talking hundreds of sales, thousands ;) But obviously, who is going to believe me. Those that are raking in the sales, keep their mouth shut (exept JT) because they don't want more competition ranking their videos in the top.

Come to Xbiz miami, we will bring some numbers (without divulging which sponsors)

I need to shout from the roof tops, i'm building another YouPorn here at PornTube and can only do that with the best tube specific edited content!

Paul Markham · 04-13-2012, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pornhub

Numbers are wrong, you have no idea what 50M views of great content will do to your direct sales... not talking hundreds of sales, thousands ;) But obviously, who is going to believe me. Those that are raking in the sales, keep their mouth shut (exept JT) because they don't want more competition ranking their videos in the top.

Come to Xbiz miami, we will bring some numbers (without divulging which sponsors)

The bold part tells the truth.

50m views - 2,000 sales maybe. 1-2500 will buy a membership if you've got great content. Which is the "Catch 22" answer when the stats show you don't get 2,000 sign ups. "Well it's not the right content."

Still the ad revenue is good and the producer of the great content doesn't get a slice of that.

Yes today we shout how well we're doing selling to one person in 2,500. Stupid is as stupid posts.

Quote:

I need to shout from the roof tops, i'm building another YouPorn here at PornTube and can only do that with the best tube specific edited content!

And that's going to turn out another sale every 2,500 views?

Seriously are these guys thinking before they post or just a couple of kids who just post for Manwin?

So I looked on Pornhub at the front page.

Quote:

25:56

14891596 views

3 years ago

Yes in 3 years this video sent 6 sales to the producer.

Paul Markham · 04-13-2012, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

50m views - 2,000 sales maybe. 1-2500 will buy a membership if you've got great content. Which is the "Catch 22" answer when the stats show you don't get 2,000 sign ups. "Well it's not the right content."

As usual I fucked up and got it all wrong. 50,000,000 / 2,000 sales = 1-25,000 views. Great going Pornhub.

pornmasta · 04-13-2012, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crucifissio

giving away full clips is just conditioning people to get it for free...

absolutely

signupdamnit · 04-13-2012, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

As usual I fucked up and got it all wrong. 50,000,000 / 2,000 sales = 1-25,000 views. Great going Pornhub.

Based on what I've heard 50,000,000 views is more like 150 to 250 sales.

1,000,000 views
1% ctr
1:2000 conversion

1,000,000 * .01 / 2000 = 5 sales * 50 = 250 sales

I haven't seen many claim a good ctr from tubes littered with full scenes.

Colmike9 · 04-13-2012, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

With all due respect it isn't and is entirely different. From what I see you're fairly new to adult. Your join date is a few months ago and all your sites seem new too as do your affiliate links seem to show high user id numbers so I surmise that you probably weren't in this industry even a year or two ago let alone five. There's nothing wrong with that but I think most people who have been in the industry for a while understand the question and what I am getting at. You just don't have very much to compare it to and you're still a bit of a newbie to the industry. You're probably comparing the way things are now to how they were in December 2011 which is entirely different than comparing now to December 1998 or even December 2005.

There's no need to make up a reason when many of the people leaving have said straight out why they are getting out. It's usually some variation of "everything is available for free", "everything of mine is stolen", "I can make more money in mainstream now because adult hardly sells anymore", etc. Which brings us back to the question of if all these people could make money hand over fist (more than they made before in the Golden or silver years of porn) simply by posting a few full length clips from their member's area why would they not do that if it were so easy and guaranteed? The common sense answer is that it isn't for most. Sure there are some cases where it's different and sure someone who wasn't even making one sale a day in the past might benefit but this is not the case for most established people in the adult business.

Whether a business fails or not depends on many things, mostly the people running it, and the same is with any online business too. If you know what you're doing then you'll be fine.

Basing what I do on my sig links and join date is stupid, those sig links are all quick hour or less projects that I wanted to test sig link SEO at the time and I like the affiliate referral payout from the sponsors in my sig, not because I promote them the most... I've been around longer than my join date too, I just didn't know that I'm not considered in the adult industry until I joined GFY..

People here can back me up that I know what the fuck I'm doing with nearly 20,000 blogs and that Ive helped many get started making money with blogs.

Here's a random pic of my closet, money is littering my house, not to mention my bank accts.:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-aghrZ32lae...0902110013.jpg

signupdamnit · 04-13-2012, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pornmasta

absolutely

No, we're wrong here. It's the path to riches for a content owner. That's why my local car dealerships have all started giving away free vehicles to anyone who asks. It drives up the demand for new cars causing new car sales and dealer profit to skyrocket.

signupdamnit · 04-13-2012, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colmike7

Whether a business fails or not depends on many things, mostly the people running it, and the same is with any online business too. If you know what you're doing then you'll be fine.

Basing what I do on my sig links and join date is stupid, those sig links are all quick hour or less projects that I wanted to test sig link SEO at the time and I like the affiliate referral payout from the sponsors in my sig, not because I promote them the most... I've been around longer than my join date too, I just didn't know that I'm not considered in the adult industry until I joined GFY..

People here can back me up that I know what the fuck I'm doing with nearly 20,000 blogs and that Ive helped many get started making money with blogs.

Here's a random pic of my closet, money is littering my house, not to mention my bank accts.:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-aghrZ32lae...0902110013.jpg

Sorry it just seemed that you were new to the business based on everything you were showing (domains, ICQ, referral links, join date). I didn't intend it as an insult or anything.

The primary thing a business depends on is it's product(s) and the demand and costs for the said product(s). Which is the issue.

TheSquealer · 04-13-2012, 10:44 AM

Finally Paul Markham... the guy who has never had successful paysites, traffic sites/traffic or an affiliate program is here to explain everything to everyone.

I expect nothing but great things from this thread now.

All I will say is this... A few years back, when youporn was first allowing a few webmasters to submit content with banners/descriptions under the video, I saw someones stats and it was unreal. At a time when everyone was bitching about "free content" and how tube traffic was complete garbage and unmonetizable.....a well known webmaster in the industry was submitting content for his amateur site and doing extremely well with conversions. On top of that, all his videos were watermarked and everyone was blown away at how many people were seeking out his content/paysites just from that.

Tube sites are nothing different than what link lists, top lists, tgps, mgps etc were. They are where the traffic goes to find free content. How you utilize that, if you do or not, or if you can do it successfully depends entirely on you and your own business savvy, knowledge of your niche, your market, your users and website marketing in general. Many are quietly doing very very well. Most are loudly doing very very bad. That has always been the case and the next time a shift happens from tubes to something else or some other technology, those doing well today are going to be the new ones bitching about the new thing killing the industry.

Colmike9 · 04-13-2012, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

Sorry it just seemed that you were new to the business based on everything you were showing (domains, ICQ, referral links, join date). I didn't intend it as an insult or anything.

The primary thing a business depends on is it's product(s) and the demand and costs for the said product(s). Which is the issue.

Sorry man, I fill my sig with random links like that because I dont know what else to do with it..

I think Paul's just getting on my nerves

signupdamnit · 04-13-2012, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colmike7

Sorry man, I fill my sig with random links like that because I dont know what else to do with it..

I think Paul's just getting on my nerves

That's alright. We all get on each other's nerves here.

Have a good weekend.

ahoy · 04-13-2012, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

Based on what I've heard 50,000,000 views is more like 150 to 250 sales.

1,000,000 views
1% ctr
1:2000 conversion

1,000,000 * .01 / 2000 = 5 sales * 50 = 250 sales

I haven't seen many claim a good ctr from tubes littered with full scenes.

You heard correctly. Please keep thinking that!

ThePornTubeGuy · 04-13-2012, 10:59 AM

With most of the 2,000 sites we had in our program in YouPorn, and its the same today with the hundreds we now manage in PornTube, if you receive 1,000 click throughs from the under video promo banners you are given on the tubes, you will also receive around 2,000 direct type ins. These are 2,000 non affiliated direct visitors to your site. This is generated from the users of the tubes that like your video they just whacked off too, but have no time to visit your site right then. However, they will write down the name of your site on a note pad, or scrap of paper. The next time they go online, or see the scrap of paper, they direct type it in their browser, or go via google. This traffic tends to convert better too.

Another factor you should consider is continuity with the tubes. Having a continual presence on the tubes with a steady stream of clips gives confidence to the users in many different forms. The user knows you really do produce great content as they regularly see edits from your full scenes for free. After time, they also see that you have a significant amount of content. They begin to rely on your tube edits to fulfil their needs.This is when you start building your brand from with-in the tubes. Not everyone will buy a membership that uses the tubes, but the day they are ready to buy, they are more likely to buy from a brand they have been consuming for free on the tubes.

Also, the sales ratio of tube visitors to your site, this is pretty much down to you as the site owner. If you are not actively A/B testing landing pages/tours/sign-up pages, and hope that you got it right first time, then of course, you will never optimise this traffic. Some publishers who got it right were EXGF.com (1:76 from YouPorn), ExtremeCFNM (1:120) VivThomas (1:280). The ones that didn't help themselves would be far in excess of 1:2,500 but blame the tubes for their failure.

Finally, tube users who buy memberships, do rebill. My average for Casting (launched July '11) and Orgasms (August '11) is over 4 months, and this is getting bigger each month.

TheSquealer · 04-13-2012, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePornTubeGuy

Some publishers who got it right were EXGF.com (1:76 from YouPorn).

Yes, it was his stats i was referring to actually,... that was quite a few years ago now. It was totally unreal and the typins were crazy.

Jel · 04-13-2012, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

Show some numbers here then. What's the ctr and average conversion rate? Not just some Cherry picked numbers but the real ones most people see. I've seen many posts here over time and it's always at least 1:1000 (usually 1:2000 or more). That's not very bad actually but the real killer is usually the ctr which is horrible. Even when one tries to account for increased type ins.

Exackery. All these "tubes convert!" wallers seem to think our argument is that tube surfers don't buy - of course they fucking do, due to sheer volume - we fucking know that ffs. Ctr is fucking atrocious though.

Jel · 04-13-2012, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePornTubeGuy

However, they will write down the name of your site on a note pad, or scrap of paper.

I'm not disputing the type-ins btw, but just lofl

Far-L · 04-13-2012, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

Show some numbers here then. What's the ctr and average conversion rate? Not just some Cherry picked numbers but the real ones most people see. I've seen many posts here over time and it's always at least 1:1000 (usually 1:2000 or more). That's not very bad actually but the real killer is usually the ctr which is horrible. Even when one tries to account for increased type ins.

What do you mean by "tries to account for increased type ins"? Tracking type-ins is critical.

CyberHustler · 04-13-2012, 11:23 AM

ThePornTubeGuy · 04-13-2012, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

Yes, it was his stats i was referring to actually,... that was quite a few years ago now. It was totally unreal and the typins were crazy.

I remember sitting around a kitchen table with the other YouPorn guys, Jan 2008 and literally every 2 minutes, we got a sale notification through for "another" exgf sale. It was INSANE

ThePornTubeGuy · 04-13-2012, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePornTubeGuy

I remember sitting around a kitchen table with the other YouPorn guys, Jan 2008 and literally every 2 minutes, we got a sale notification through for "another" exgf sale. It was INSANE

2009 actually

Far-L · 04-13-2012, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

Finally Paul Markham... the guy who has never had successful paysites, traffic sites/traffic or an affiliate program is here to explain everything to everyone.

I expect nothing but great things from this thread now.

All I will say is this... A few years back, when youporn was first allowing a few webmasters to submit content with banners/descriptions under the video, I saw someones stats and it was unreal. At a time when everyone was bitching about "free content" and how tube traffic was complete garbage and unmonetizable.....a well known webmaster in the industry was submitting content for his amateur site and doing extremely well with conversions. On top of that, all his videos were watermarked and everyone was blown away at how many people were seeking out his content/paysites just from that.

Tube sites are nothing different than what link lists, top lists, tgps, mgps etc were. They are where the traffic goes to find free content. How you utilize that, if you do or not, or if you can do it successfully depends entirely on you and your own business savvy, knowledge of your niche, your market, your users and website marketing in general. Many are quietly doing very very well. Most are loudly doing very very bad. That has always been the case and the next time a shift happens from tubes to something else or some other technology, those doing well today are going to be the new ones bitching about the new thing killing the industry.

I just needed to quote this because it makes me feel sane again. Thank you.

signupdamnit · 04-13-2012, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jel

Exackery. All these "tubes convert!" wallers seem to think our argument is that tube surfers don't buy - of course they fucking do, due to sheer volume - we fucking know that ffs. Ctr is fucking atrocious though.

Here's a post from Robbie where he claims a tube campaign on Porn Hub netted over 5 million video views but only 15,279 direct clicks with 8 sales and a conversion rate of 1:1909-

https://gfy.com/showpost.php?p=18106576&postcount=33

That's a ctr of 0.3%! Even if we triple that to allow for type-ins due to people "writing down urls on a piece of paper" as ThePornTubeGuy says that is still a ctr of less than 1%.

Later in the same thread Nautilus speaks of ctr also around .3% - .5%.
https://gfy.com/showpost.php?p=18110050&postcount=79

In contrast as Robbie mentioned in his old post even TGPs typically did much better as far as ctr and I know legal tubes routinely see 3-5% ctr even now.

16 sales (doubling the amount he saw due to type-ins) from 5 million impressions is a little over 3 sales per 1 million impressions which is the numbers I was using.

Legal tube

1,000,000 impressions
5% ctr
conversion ratio: 1:1500

1,000,000 * .05 / 1500 = 33 sales

Pornhub

1,000,000 impressions
1% ctr
conversion ratio: 1:2000

1,000,000 * .01 / 2000 = 5 sales

Huge difference there. It seems if you are encouraging your surfers to visit tubes like Porn Hub or Youporn at the expense of your own direct marketing and your affiliates then you are basically just throwing money away. There's an opportunity cost involved in giving away content.

Just like how a car dealer may give one or two cars away every now and then for marketing purposes in order to get some publicity. However at the same time he isn't going to give away 50%-100% of his inventory either because he isn't stupid. He knows that will reduce his net sales. There isn't a car dealership in the world doing that and for good reason.

porno jew · 04-13-2012, 12:13 PM

signupdamnit instead of theorizing all day why things wont work why not figure out who it's working for and why and go from there?

you are like a miniature paul markham arguing all day why something wont work not based upon experience but what you THINK is so.

the market, technology and customer has changed. study that and adapt. or die.

Colmike9 · 04-13-2012, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

Here's a post from Robbie where he claims a tube campaign on Porn Hub netted over 5 million video views but only 15,279 direct clicks with 8 sales and a conversion rate of 1:1909-

https://gfy.com/showpost.php?p=18106576&postcount=33

That's a ctr of 0.3%! Even if we triple that to allow for type-ins due to people "writing down urls on a piece of paper" as ThePornTubeGuy says that is still a ctr of less than 1%.

Later in the same thread Nautilus speaks of ctr also around .3% - .5%.
https://gfy.com/showpost.php?p=18110050&postcount=79

In contrast as Robbie mentioned in his old post even TGPs typically did much better as far as ctr and I know legal tubes routinely see 3-5% ctr even now.

16 sales (doubling the amount he saw due to type-ins) from 5 million impressions is a little over 3 sales per 1 million impressions which is the numbers I was using.

Legal tube

1,000,000 impressions
5% ctr
conversion ratio: 1:1500

1,000,000 * .05 / 1500 = 33 sales

Pornhub

1,000,000 impressions
1% ctr
conversion ratio: 1:2000

1,000,000 * .01 / 2000 = 5 sales

Huge difference there. It seems if you are encouraging your surfers to visit tubes like Porn Hub or Youporn at the expense of your own direct marketing and your affiliates then you are basically just throwing money away. There's an opportunity cost involved in giving away content.

Just like how a car dealer may give one or two cars away every now and then for marketing purposes in order to get some publicity. However at the same time he isn't going to give away 50%-100% of his inventory either because he isn't stupid. He knows that will reduce his net sales. There isn't a car dealership in the world doing that and for good reason.

Just because a video gets a ton of views doesn't mean that it's good and should make sales every time..

porno jew · 04-13-2012, 12:16 PM

nothing is going to change in porn for the foreseeable future.

if it really bothers you that much get out of intangibles, open an amazon account and sell blue widgets, until home fabrication printers makes everyone is sharing those for free as well.

signupdamnit · 04-13-2012, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by porno jew

signupdamnit instead of theorizing all day why things wont work why not figure out who it's working for and why and go from there?

you are like a miniature paul markham arguing all day why something wont work not based upon experience but what you THINK is so.

the market, technology and customer has changed. study that and adapt. or die.

I'm doing fine. I'm just not doing as well as I could because of the idiocy in the industry where people are giving everything away. Guys like "The PornTubeGuy" are just blowing smoke up people's asses to help their own bottom line. He wants you to upload all your content to him and he'll tell you anything to get you to do it. He wants to grow his own tubes using your content.

I know as an affiliate the difference between a sponsor who has all their content available all over the place versus one who tries hard to keep it scarce. The difference is as much as three to five times the ratios. It becomes very difficult to sell such as a sponsor. That's experience not speculation. I've given out numbers as well with other's experiences not just a bunch of bullshit.

Colmike9 · 04-13-2012, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by porno jew

nothing is going to change in porn for the foreseeable future.

if it really bothers you that much get out of intangibles, open an amazon account and sell blue widgets, until home fabrication printers makes everyone is sharing those for free as well.

Guys are never going to stop thinking with their dicks, no matter what. If something is given away for free in terms of porn, there will always be some kind of premium/HD/unlimited/unique/etc version to upsell to. If not, then there are advertisers to make money off of.

As long as a guy has a penis and money then he's a potential porn customer. (Women buy too

)

No matter the platform: tubes/blogs/tgp/SEO/textlinks, the biggest thing is to not give the customer what they want and make your site nice and full of content, you need to give them a sample without getting them off and without boring them and at the same time educating them what they can get with a membership and make it seem fucking awesome like something they have never seen for free.. Marketing is different than making a nice looking porn page.

signupdamnit · 04-13-2012, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colmike7

Just because a video gets a ton of views doesn't mean that it's good and should make sales every time..

Do you really think his experience is going to be that much different from the average paysite's experience though? Most people seem to agree that tubes like PornHub usually show shitty ctr. There are a few here who claim otherwise but it would seem the exception. It's just common sense though. First they give everything away free. Second it's typically just one shitty link that you get with a small watermark. I don't see how you even dispute it.

Robbie · 04-13-2012, 12:24 PM

signupdamnit That was exactly what I saw on Pornhub...which is why I finally took the vids down.

And they were vids that I put together specifically for Pornhub with great hardcore action.

One of them I even filmed for it and was a long video of stripping and then getting fucked by a fuck machine. I actually filmed, edited, and produced it just to go up on Pornhub...it's not even in our members area.

Meanwhile I had people making good sales with freakin' hosted galleries and blogs during that same time period. I've never seen such poor performance in my own or anyone else's affiliate work as that Pornhub experiment was.

People sure did seem to love the free vids on Pornhub though.

That was evident in the views the vids got. Even had people tweeting Claudia Marie about how they loved her vids on Pornhub lol

I'm happy for all the guys on here that are making big money...but I'm pretty sure the only ones who are, are the owners of the big tube sites and their webcam and dating program partners.

porno jew · 04-13-2012, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

I'm doing fine. I'm just not doing as well as I could because of the idiocy in the industry where people are giving everything away. Guys like "The PornTubeGuy" are just blowing smoke up people's asses to help their own bottom line. He wants you to upload all your content to him and he'll tell you anything to get you to do it. He wants to grow his own tubes using your content.

I know as an affiliate the difference between a sponsor who has all their content available all over the place versus one who tries hard to keep it scarce. The difference is as much as three to five times the ratios. It becomes very difficult to sell such as a sponsor. That's experience not speculation. I've given out numbers as well with other's experiences not just a bunch of bullshit.

well them promote sponsors and sites not over the tubes. how is this rocket science? even fucking dvtimes has it figured out man.

porno jew · 04-13-2012, 12:28 PM

funny how the same time you started to upload clips you sales also increased.

the obvious reason is from type ins and branding but you are so blinded by the banner clicks to even notice. even nathan pointed this out before.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

signupdamnit That was exactly what I saw on Pornhub...which is why I finally took the vids down.

And they were vids that I put together specifically for Pornhub with great hardcore action.

One of them I even filmed for it and was a long video of stripping and then getting fucked by a fuck machine. I actually filmed, edited, and produced it just to go up on Pornhub...it's not even in our members area.

Meanwhile I had people making good sales with freakin' hosted galleries and blogs during that same time period. I've never seen such poor performance in my own or anyone else's affiliate work as that Pornhub experiment was.

People sure did seem to love the free vids on Pornhub though.

That was evident in the views the vids got. Even had people tweeting Claudia Marie about how they loved her vids on Pornhub lol

I'm happy for all the guys on here that are making big money...but I'm pretty sure the only ones who are, are the owners of the big tube sites and their webcam and dating program partners.

Colmike9 · 04-13-2012, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

Do you really think his experience is going to be that much different from the average paysite's experience though? Most people seem to agree that tubes like PornHub usually show shitty ctr. There are a few here who claim otherwise but it would seem the exception. It's just common sense though. First they give everything away free. Second it's typically just one shitty link that you get with a small watermark. I don't see how you even dispute it.

I get what you're saying, but what if you're on a porn tube and want a niche specific video of midget porn. Then that midget video has a midget paysite watermark and banner ad to the full membership site. That would work better at getting sales than a video called 'Hot blonde playing with her pussy' because that is a broad niche that everyone is going to look at and have no interest in paying for a full membership to a generic porn site or any site in general since those video are for regular free porn surfers, even if the video is awesome.
Not to mention all of the targeted SE video search traffic coming in and helps a lot with niches, so the content does make a difference when promoting tubes in this way

04-13-2012, 03:53 AM	#155
ThePornTubeGuy Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Altea, Spain Posts: 33	Great thread and interesting views on the tubes and the sales a content owner does or does not make. An intro on my background. My name is JT and I was a founding Partner/Director of YouPorn.com from late 2006 until we sold to Manwin in May 2011. My role was Director of Business Development and I was responsible for monetizing the traffic which we grew to 370m monthly visitors. We grew this traffic via word of mouth by giving a better user experience than your competition, we didn't buy any traffic. That great user experiance was founded primarily on the content. Without great content, the visitors to your tube disappear. This made us launch the first ever Content Publishing Program in early 2007. We knew from our data that if we promoted the publisher of the video that the user was watching, with an affiliated banner under the video player, that a % of our free users would click through to their website. Then it was down to the sponsor to convert these visitors into paying members. Naughty America and CDGirls were the first publishers to work with us and give us licensed tube clips in return for our traffic. They both recorded in excess of 3,000 new members to their sites that month. Upon sale to Manwin, we handled over 2,000 brands in our YouPorn Content Publishing Program, and we were one of the largest affiliates on the planet. We had huge amounts of data at our disposal regarding customer behaviour and the types of content they liked and what length of clip this needed to be. We knew that certain clips performed significantly better than others when they contained a beginning, middle and an end to the clip. We had without doubt the most revolutionary algorithms ever used on a tube which enabled us to deliver a "related" and "recommended to you" section (amongst other things) to each and every user. This enabled us to get YouPorn to over 110million daily page impressions and an average time on site per visit of just over 10 minutes. As the recent extremetech article reports, YouPorn accounts for around 2% of the daily internet traffic. But none of this is possible without the best content. We embarked on a huge content buying spree that started in 2007 and we ended up spending millions of dollars over the years licensing all niches of content to have this edited into tube specific clips and to give this out for free to our users. Of course, we used to release some full scenes too, but mainly, tube specific clips that we had edited. We also worked closely with many of the publishers, advising them on how to edit clips, what length they should be etc etc. Of course, in 2007, we were hard pushed to get 3 min edits from our publishers. We then started pushing for 5 min edits and then 7 min edits. Now the optimum length of a clip to be giving to the tubes is 10 minutes. Those that listen to us, make bank. Look at BackRoomCastingCouch, one of the most successful pay sites ever to utilise the tube traffic. At one point, BackRoomCastingCouch was the 2nd most searched for keyword on YouPorn, and we handled over 650m searches a month! Fast forward to today and I am doing it all over again at PornTube.com. You will not be surprised to hear that we have built THE BEST Content Publishing Platform in the market place today. We have many features such as multiple upload, upload by CSV, clip scheduler (so YOU remain in control of when your clips go live) and and in depth stats panel for you to see the stats for each individual clip. We have also released a PornTube Content Publishing Program Guide that gives you an insight into the mind of a tube user and "How to sell a membership to someone who consumes porn for free". You can download this by clicking the link in my signature. We really are here to help you make the most of the millions of eyeballs at your disposal every day, and not just on PornTube. We have embarked on several successful tube campaigns for Content Publishers too, where we work closely with the other major tubes to make sure you are best positioned to expose your brand to millions of users and potential new members each day. So please reach out to us for details. Directly after the sale of YouPorn, I decided to put everything I preached into practice, so, for the record, I also own the production company Really Useful Ltd. I have the sites Orgasms.xxx (launched 7 months ago) Casting.xxx (8 months ago) DaneJones.com FakeAgent.com and Lesbea.com (all 3 months ago) with a further 6 sites currently in production, with a whole network of sites planned for 2013 onwards. All content is exclusive to my network, we shoot all content ourselves and have an in house team of some of the best editors in the game. We have even just hired someone who's sole purpose is to upload our content to the tubes, all day, every day. 90% of my traffic is tube related (click thrus and the "golden" direct type ins) and I am doing on average 200-220 new sign ups/rebills a day and growing each month. With CCBill (main biller) I have an average transaction value of $31 USD (I do not run $1 promos) and under 0.3% CB ratio. Not surprisingly, the average length of my tube specific edited clips are 10 mins, they have a beginning, middle and an ending, and we put our newest and best content online. Quite simply, we can not shoot content quick enough to put it on the tubes for free. We are also nailing it on the VOD's too. So, you can see that I come from both sides of the industry and have considerable experience with both. Please download the PornTube Content Publishing Platform Guide to find out more. (and to find out how you can get ALL of your traffic from PornTube affiliate link free, meaning you keep 100% of all the sales we make for you!). __________________ At Dreamstar Cash we have in excess of 4m visitors a day through our network that consists of www.PornTube.com www.4Tube.com and www.Fux.com. We operate the very successful Content Publishing Platform at http://content.porntube.com where we have the unique offer of no affiliate code embedded into your promo banners for clip submissions of 10 minutes or longer. That means you get all traffic from us AFFILIATE free! Download the PornTube.com Content Publishing Program Guide and Turn your Content into Traffic!

04-13-2012, 08:27 AM	#159
TheSquealer BANNED Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: In Your Head Posts: 23,712	This whole conversation about tube traffic not converting is comical. Does TGP traffic convert? If you would have asked that question 8 years ago... the answers would have ranged from "i'm doing 1:50" to "fuck no! i'm at 1:40,000 and tgps suck ass". You have an interested prospect in your product. Porn was always free. Porn has always been free. Users have always found paysites via free content. Whether or not he actually buys depends on a multitude of factors - and while others are killing it with tubes, there are also those insisting its a waste or time or "much much worse than... " - page structure, eye flow, a simple headline, call to action text, layout, image choice etc etc etc etc etc etc etc all come together to determine whether you are the 1:100 guy or the 1:100,000 guy. The funny thing is that so few in this biz stop to ask "how do i improve this" -- "how do i test" and so on and so forth... instead, everyone blames the traffic and continues doing poorly and never really learn a thing and end up doing nothing but bitching, complaining and blaming. __________________ If you don't like that Elon Musk bought twitter,... just build your own and stop crying about it.

04-13-2012, 08:59 AM	#161
The Porn Nerd Living The Dream Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Inside a Monitor Posts: 19,317	Links pulled. Oh wait - There is no money in porn. Oh wait - Your funds are in motion. Oh wait - Sales are great! Oh wait - Nevermind. __________________ My Affiliate Programs: Porn Nerd Cash \| Porn Showcase \| Aggressive Gold (Coming Soon) Over 90 paysites to promote! Skype: peabodymedia

04-13-2012, 10:44 AM	#177
TheSquealer BANNED Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: In Your Head Posts: 23,712	Finally Paul Markham... the guy who has never had successful paysites, traffic sites/traffic or an affiliate program is here to explain everything to everyone. I expect nothing but great things from this thread now. All I will say is this... A few years back, when youporn was first allowing a few webmasters to submit content with banners/descriptions under the video, I saw someones stats and it was unreal. At a time when everyone was bitching about "free content" and how tube traffic was complete garbage and unmonetizable.....a well known webmaster in the industry was submitting content for his amateur site and doing extremely well with conversions. On top of that, all his videos were watermarked and everyone was blown away at how many people were seeking out his content/paysites just from that. Tube sites are nothing different than what link lists, top lists, tgps, mgps etc were. They are where the traffic goes to find free content. How you utilize that, if you do or not, or if you can do it successfully depends entirely on you and your own business savvy, knowledge of your niche, your market, your users and website marketing in general. Many are quietly doing very very well. Most are loudly doing very very bad. That has always been the case and the next time a shift happens from tubes to something else or some other technology, those doing well today are going to be the new ones bitching about the new thing killing the industry. __________________ If you don't like that Elon Musk bought twitter,... just build your own and stop crying about it. Last edited by TheSquealer; 04-13-2012 at 10:46 AM..

04-13-2012, 10:59 AM	#181
ThePornTubeGuy Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Altea, Spain Posts: 33	With most of the 2,000 sites we had in our program in YouPorn, and its the same today with the hundreds we now manage in PornTube, if you receive 1,000 click throughs from the under video promo banners you are given on the tubes, you will also receive around 2,000 direct type ins. These are 2,000 non affiliated direct visitors to your site. This is generated from the users of the tubes that like your video they just whacked off too, but have no time to visit your site right then. However, they will write down the name of your site on a note pad, or scrap of paper. The next time they go online, or see the scrap of paper, they direct type it in their browser, or go via google. This traffic tends to convert better too. Another factor you should consider is continuity with the tubes. Having a continual presence on the tubes with a steady stream of clips gives confidence to the users in many different forms. The user knows you really do produce great content as they regularly see edits from your full scenes for free. After time, they also see that you have a significant amount of content. They begin to rely on your tube edits to fulfil their needs.This is when you start building your brand from with-in the tubes. Not everyone will buy a membership that uses the tubes, but the day they are ready to buy, they are more likely to buy from a brand they have been consuming for free on the tubes. Also, the sales ratio of tube visitors to your site, this is pretty much down to you as the site owner. If you are not actively A/B testing landing pages/tours/sign-up pages, and hope that you got it right first time, then of course, you will never optimise this traffic. Some publishers who got it right were EXGF.com (1:76 from YouPorn), ExtremeCFNM (1:120) VivThomas (1:280). The ones that didn't help themselves would be far in excess of 1:2,500 but blame the tubes for their failure. Finally, tube users who buy memberships, do rebill. My average for Casting (launched July '11) and Orgasms (August '11) is over 4 months, and this is getting bigger each month. __________________ At Dreamstar Cash we have in excess of 4m visitors a day through our network that consists of www.PornTube.com www.4Tube.com and www.Fux.com. We operate the very successful Content Publishing Platform at http://content.porntube.com where we have the unique offer of no affiliate code embedded into your promo banners for clip submissions of 10 minutes or longer. That means you get all traffic from us AFFILIATE free! Download the PornTube.com Content Publishing Program Guide and Turn your Content into Traffic!

04-13-2012, 01:28 AM	#151
porno jew Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 10,166	ok whatever. no one likes you, thinks you are smart, interesting, have any talent or did anything remotely interesting with your life except creep on your models which i guess is interesting in a way like a late night horror movie about a serial killer or rapist. nothing more. enjoy your life.

04-13-2012, 11:23 AM	#186
CyberHustler So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 23,783

04-13-2012, 12:13 PM	#191
porno jew Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 10,166	signupdamnit instead of theorizing all day why things wont work why not figure out who it's working for and why and go from there? you are like a miniature paul markham arguing all day why something wont work not based upon experience but what you THINK is so. the market, technology and customer has changed. study that and adapt. or die.

04-13-2012, 12:16 PM	#193
porno jew Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 10,166	nothing is going to change in porn for the foreseeable future. if it really bothers you that much get out of intangibles, open an amazon account and sell blue widgets, until home fabrication printers makes everyone is sharing those for free as well.

04-13-2012, 12:24 PM	#197
Robbie Leaner, Meaner, Faster Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vegas Posts: 20,845	signupdamnit That was exactly what I saw on Pornhub...which is why I finally took the vids down. And they were vids that I put together specifically for Pornhub with great hardcore action. One of them I even filmed for it and was a long video of stripping and then getting fucked by a fuck machine. I actually filmed, edited, and produced it just to go up on Pornhub...it's not even in our members area. Meanwhile I had people making good sales with freakin' hosted galleries and blogs during that same time period. I've never seen such poor performance in my own or anyone else's affiliate work as that Pornhub experiment was. People sure did seem to love the free vids on Pornhub though. That was evident in the views the vids got. Even had people tweeting Claudia Marie about how they loved her vids on Pornhub lol I'm happy for all the guys on here that are making big money...but I'm pretty sure the only ones who are, are the owners of the big tube sites and their webcam and dating program partners. __________________ -Robbie ClaudiaMarie.Com