The business model of tube sites

[Vapid - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Now how about that.

[L-Pink]

s t e a l

[Vapid - BANNED FOR LIFE]

They exist in the public domain.

[fogfever]

well said

[notinmybackyard]

It is a ponzi scam.

Paying for advertising in the domain of anything free only creates a consumer base of people looking for more freebies. In the mid to long term business that depend on selling something have to continously increase their advertising dispenses to maintain the same level of sales.

But as in the case of General Moters and Facebook, most companies eventually see that their adverstising expenses continue to climb and their Return on Investement (R.O.I) continues to sink so they end up pulling the plug and taking their adverstising funds elsewhere.

I have an inside contact in one of these "super large" tube sites currently dominating the Internet. The advertiser turn over is unbelievably high. About the only companies that stick around are casino sites and sites doing similar as the tube site. In many cases the tube site will despite having a terminated contract with an advertiser keep running their ads as long as possible in order to continue the illusion so they can attract the new group of *suckers*.

And that's just on the 'legitimate surface' of things.

Add to this that Internet provides multiple and many many opportunites for money laundering. Porn tube sites are perfectly suited for this sort of activity. They manufacture nothing and require little or no outside services or interface with other companies and individuals. Therefore almost little or no trail to follow to verify the source of their income.

Putting aside the debate about if a tube site is engaged in money laundering or not. They are still benefiting from stolen copyrighted property. In the United States I believe it is the RICO act and in Canada it is the Proceeds of Crime Act that applies.
Eventually these guys all fall or get caught. All that is needed is for the wrong person that got his stuff stolen to walk into an FBI or RCMP office and start the fall.

With the USA's 2257 requirements I am surprised that no one has done that yet... I can go to any tube site and within 10 minutes pull up tons of pedo porn. Just one police raid for those documents and the entire tube industry as we know it will collapse.

[topnotch, standup guy]

t h e f t

.

[adultmobile]

Sell ads to cams and casino

[GregE]

[Paul Markham]

All you guys complaining just don't understand how online porn marketing works.

Think about it before you hit the reply button.

[Mutt]

Originally Posted by notinmybackyard

Putting aside the debate about if a tube site is engaged in money laundering or not. They are still benefiting from stolen copyrighted property. In the United States I believe it is the RICO act and in Canada it is the Proceeds of Crime Act that applies.
Eventually these guys all fall or get caught. All that is needed is for the wrong person that got his stuff stolen to walk into an FBI or RCMP office and start the fall.

um.........yeah

[notinmybackyard]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

All you guys complaining just don't understand how online porn marketing works.

Think about it before you hit the reply button.

Tube sites do not affect me at all. I thought they did... My biggest problem is the guys that download my stuff from a file locker and then sell copies of my films on the streets of europe.

No stores to walk into...
No worry about videos in the mail being opened...

The gypsy on the street really gets their teeth into my business.

[Paul Markham]

Let me explain the business model of Tubes and marketing porn online. because you guys don't understand it.

Firstly you register a domain, catchy ones are good and even better ones that will attract SE traffic.

You then get a program to load it with as much free porn as you can, the only limit is the cost to profit ratio. If you can get it low enough or get others to pay for hosting, even better. Don't forget the more free porn you give away, the more people come and traffic is king.

You then skim the top of this traffic maybe with a 1-5,000 sign up to something. These numbers vary as people will tell you all sorts of fantasy figures and ignore the people who have totally forgotten to click any link other than the one to more free porn. Should they ever land on a site that will cost them money, they will get out ASAP.

The key to this is the skills with the techniques you adopt to get as many people to your free porn. And how much free porn you can give them.

I'm surprised you're asking about their business model. This has been the Online Porn Marketing business model for over a decade now. And if BW had been less than 2 cents a GB in 2000. It would be all over for paysites now.

The illegal Red Herring is bullshit. Remember, Innocent until proven Guilty?

Remember when you were all proudly telling me offline porn didn't get it? Seems online porn has it's strugglers as well.

[hineken]

you tube

[Penny24Seven]

once again Paul will tell you how it is with something he has never done because none of you know what the fuck you are talking about but Paul does. How many tube sites do you have Paul? HAHAHAHA

[scottybuzz]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Let me explain the business model of Tubes and marketing porn online. because you guys don't understand it.

[body]

Originally Posted by Brian837

once again Paul will tell you how it is with something he has never done because none of you know what the fuck you are talking about but Paul does. How many tube sites do you have Paul? HAHAHAHA

[body]

Originally Posted by notinmybackyard

Tube sites do not affect me at all. I thought they did... My biggest problem is the guys that download my stuff from a file locker and then sell copies of my films on the streets of europe.

No stores to walk into...
No worry about videos in the mail being opened...

The gypsy on the street really gets their teeth into my business.

they really sell on streets? holy shit

[epitome]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Let me explain the business model of Tubes and marketing porn online. because you guys don't understand it.

Firstly you register a domain, catchy ones are good and even better ones that will attract SE traffic.

You then get a program to load it with as much free porn as you can, the only limit is the cost to profit ratio. If you can get it low enough or get others to pay for hosting, even better. Don't forget the more free porn you give away, the more people come and traffic is king.

You then skim the top of this traffic maybe with a 1-5,000 sign up to something. These numbers vary as people will tell you all sorts of fantasy figures and ignore the people who have totally forgotten to click any link other than the one to more free porn. Should they ever land on a site that will cost them money, they will get out ASAP.

The key to this is the skills with the techniques you adopt to get as many people to your free porn. And how much free porn you can give them.

I'm surprised you're asking about their business model. This has been the Online Porn Marketing business model for over a decade now. And if BW had been less than 2 cents a GB in 2000. It would be all over for paysites now.

The illegal Red Herring is bullshit. Remember, Innocent until proven Guilty?

Remember when you were all proudly telling me offline porn didn't get it? Seems online porn has it's strugglers as well.

The number of inaccuracies in your reply is staggering.

[Paul Markham]

Once again people will tell us because someone doesn't run something he can't see the fucking obvious. Even though it is fucking obvious.

The top 5 Tubes are exactly fitting the model I described and if you want to flame, point out specifics.

[Colmike9]

No one ever says one of the main real ways that the big tubes make money besides with CPM/CPC ads:

They have a bunch of paysite owners, big and small, sign up to post on their tubes. You have to be the paysite owner with an affiliate program or one set up for the tube because the banner ads to the paysite that those people upload with their videos earn the tubes 50-75ish% since they are set up to use the tube's affiliate ID and allow no refID for videos over 7-10 minutes depending on the tube...

[Vapid - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Well take thievery out of the equation and I still see a lot of straw men's dicks in hands.

[Axel_Crak]

Originally Posted by Monotony

Well take thievery out of the equation.

Yes, Tube doesnt always equal Theft... maybe few years ago more, but now, lot of clean tubes... maybe not the biggest tho

If you want to upload on ours we made a good and easy tools, you can brand your channel and earn money for sure http://crakcontent.com

[Lace]

You're a faggot.

[Vapid - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Originally Posted by Axel_Crak

Yes, Tube doesnt always equal Theft... maybe few years ago more, but now, lot of clean tubes... maybe not the biggest tho

If you want to upload on ours we made a good and easy tools, you can brand your channel and earn money for sure http://crakcontent.com

I'm just happy with the bandwidth optimization that adobe has brought, it really has lowered the bar for competition in mass.

[Vapid - BANNED FOR LIFE]

You should also watch your whore mouth around people that rich Lace.
N'est-ce pas faggot?

[notinmybackyard]

Originally Posted by Axel_Crak

Yes, Tube doesnt always equal Theft... maybe few years ago more, but now, lot of clean tubes... maybe not the biggest tho

If you want to upload on ours we made a good and easy tools, you can brand your channel and earn money for sure http://crakcontent.com

Quand je visite votre site, j'obtiens qu'une page blanche.

[Axel_Crak]

Originally Posted by notinmybackyard

Quand je visite votre site, j'obtiens qu'une page blanche.

Hum, je ne comprends pas, je viens de clicker sur le link et ca fonctionne..

Ou es tu situé ? France ? Québec ? Autre ?

On fait de la biz ensemble ? Tu m'écriras sur mon mail si ca t'intéresse

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Monotony

Well take thievery out of the equation and I still see a lot of straw men's dicks in hands.

Have you got proof any thieve anything?

The problem is the cost of BW. Pure and simple. Eliminate all the User Uploaded and Manwin plus a couple more will pay you millions. It just means they will be top of the pile and nothing will change.

99.998% of porn surfers aren't coming back to buying recorded porn. Unless free gets dealt a death blow that all you will hate.

Live with it.

[Three.Thousand]

Ive tried and tested submitting to tubes, its a big joke. Even though it is the obvious, at least i got some numbers out of it to back it up, the winners of the model:
1. tube owner (obviously)
2. advertiser
3. ...
4. ..
5. .
99. the content producer

As a content producer you MIGHT make a sale, the owner WILL make money and the advertiser will most likely make money if its not his first shot at it. The ratio is horrible, anyone saying different must be lying (if not, good for you!). The best option is the model paidperview has gone with (big credit to them, good job!), but the traffic per video is does not justify the time and effort spent on it. The only tubes worth while submitting to is the very top ones, pornhub, xhamster etc.

Now, if you instead were to submit your content to piracy forums, you would probably make more from selling file locker accounts from it (revhsare, or even pp download) , and getting paid per thumbnail view on image hosts. Havnt tried it but im SURE, that will bring in more money than tubes.

you know the industry is fucked up when the pirates will make you more money from YOUR content, than the industry itself.

[Dirty F]

Originally Posted by notinmybackyard

Tube sites do not affect me at all. I thought they did... My biggest problem is the guys that download my stuff from a file locker and then sell copies of my films on the streets of europe.

No stores to walk into...
No worry about videos in the mail being opened...

The gypsy on the street really gets their teeth into my business.

Gypsies selling your stuff on the street afrects your business how much exactly?

Sorry but just the thought alone makes me laugh.

[Dirty F]

*affects.

[notinmybackyard]

Originally Posted by Dirty F

Gypsies selling your stuff on the street afrects your business how much exactly?

Sorry but just the thought alone makes me laugh.

Because my product is not online. They sell for 2 euros for what the stores demand between 20euros and 30euros. Much of the time these crooks sell within a few streets outside of the sex districts. And that results in lost sales to the stores and ultimately in stores taking less of my product.

Not to forget the fact that 20% of the time the video sold on the street ends up getting ripped again and reuploaded to more pirate venus witch only result a snowball effect of piracy.

Now you might end up laughing that I am not online with my product but I got a good feeling that I am most likely making more money than 90% of the online porn community. Rest assured I thought my business need to « adapt or die » but when I look at how it is the majority of people are adapting... I just shake my head and say no way am I going to fall for that scam. As bad as things are today my worst year on record was and probably always will be 1981 and I still managed to turn a profit. (a very small one)

[Paul]

Originally Posted by notinmybackyard

Because my product is not online. They sell for 2 euros for what the stores demand between 20euros and 30euros. Much of the time these crooks sell within a few streets outside of the sex districts. And that results in lost sales to the stores and ultimately in stores taking less of my product.

Not to forget the fact that 20% of the time the video sold on the street ends up getting ripped again and reuploaded to more pirate venus witch only result a snowball effect of piracy.

Now you might end up laughing that I am not online with my product but I got a good feeling that I am most likely making more money than 90% of the online porn community. Rest assured I thought my business need to « adapt or die » but when I look at how it is the majority of people are adapting... I just shake my head and say no way am I going to fall for that scam. As bad as things are today my worst year on record was and probably always will be 1981 and I still managed to turn a profit. (a very small one)

What is your product?

[Paul]

Originally Posted by Three.Thousand

Ive tried and tested submitting to tubes, its a big joke. Even though it is the obvious, at least i got some numbers out of it to back it up,

As a content producer you MIGHT make a sale, the owner WILL make money and the advertiser will most likely make money if its not his first shot at it. The ratio is horrible, anyone saying different must be lying (if not, good for you!). The best option is the model paidperview has gone with (big credit to them, good job!), but the traffic per video is does not justify the time and effort spent on it. The only tubes worth while submitting to is the very top ones, pornhub, xhamster etc.

I don't agree with this at all, I know of quite a few medium sized paysites that are doing 30 - 40 signups daily from adult tube traffic.

[signupdamnit]

Originally Posted by Paul

I don't agree with this at all, I know of quite a few medium sized paysites that are doing 30 - 40 signups daily from adult tube traffic.

That's hard to believe unless under some very special circumstances. I've seen people publish their results and usually they are 1:1,000 - 1:3,000 with a ctr of 1-3% even when attempting to include type in traffic. You would need several millions of video views a day.

[signupdamnit]

Originally Posted by Three.Thousand

Ive tried and tested submitting to tubes, its a big joke. Even though it is the obvious, at least i got some numbers out of it to back it up, the winners of the model:
1. tube owner (obviously)
2. advertiser
3. ...
4. ..
5. .
99. the content producer

As a content producer you MIGHT make a sale, the owner WILL make money and the advertiser will most likely make money if its not his first shot at it. The ratio is horrible, anyone saying different must be lying (if not, good for you!). The best option is the model paidperview has gone with (big credit to them, good job!), but the traffic per video is does not justify the time and effort spent on it. The only tubes worth while submitting to is the very top ones, pornhub, xhamster etc.

Now, if you instead were to submit your content to piracy forums, you would probably make more from selling file locker accounts from it (revhsare, or even pp download) , and getting paid per thumbnail view on image hosts. Havnt tried it but im SURE, that will bring in more money than tubes.

you know the industry is fucked up when the pirates will make you more money from YOUR content, than the industry itself.

Your words about the old style affiliates versus the new pro-pirate affiliates are spot on. I've considered the same thing myself and I believe if it continues on like this and with ctr and ratios increasing along with many sponsors screwing over affiliates a lot of the old style affiliates are going to move to pro-piracy models further decimating the adult paysite industry. It's already happening among some of the affiliates who haven't made a lot under the traditional model. They crossed over because they have little to lose.

Regarding content programs I don't think many people realize that you're almost guaranteed to see diminishing returns over time for it. There's typically an inverse relationship between how much content you share and your pay site sales ratio. If there weren't this inverse relationship everyone on this forum would be filthy rich. So what is going to happen is that eventually you are going to paint yourself in a corner by giving away all this full scene content. You will have no where to go because you won't be able to get your old ratios from before you dumped the content all over the net back.

But as another poster said the whole thing is like a ponzi scheme for everyone. Even the tube owner. At some point it will all collapse. Ad revenues will plummet when no one is buying anymore because it's all available for free. Some tube owners will face the shutdown point where it's costing them more to run the site than they are taking in from ads. Many more will find themselves in a position where they are making 1/3 or even 1/10th of what they are now as the revenues collapse and competition heats up.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

That's hard to believe unless under some very special circumstances. I've seen people publish their results and usually they are 1:1,000 - 1:3,000 with a ctr of 1-3% even when attempting to include type in traffic. You would need several millions of video views a day.

No tell me it ain't so. No one lies about their rations on GFY.

[Three.Thousand]

Originally Posted by Paul

I don't agree with this at all, I know of quite a few medium sized paysites that are doing 30 - 40 signups daily from adult tube traffic.

I didn't say content producers did not make money, or a lot of money from tubes.
I said they make a tiny fraction of what the owner and advertiser makes, basically being taken advantage of. Why not just cut one step out and be the advertiser yourself instead if the traffic is so good. Get sales and keep your content out of the way of people who wont pay.

And for 40 a day, how much content have these sites you mentioned pumped out?
With the numbers I have on hand (lets base it on views, not clicks because i can be blamed for having crap banner/text), it would take quite a good chunk of scenes for that. And what do you do when you run out of scenes? You gonna have to shoot a lot! to keep up that demand with the medium sized tubes.

For those 40 signups, how many thousands upon thousand people viewed the content for free? (Lets not get into the arguing of that they would never have paid anyway)
If you instead went the "pay per download" filelocker and image host route, you would get paid for each and every single viewer of your content.

[Paul]

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

That's hard to believe unless under some very special circumstances. I've seen people publish their results and usually they are 1:1,000 - 1:3,000 with a ctr of 1-3% even when attempting to include type in traffic. You would need several millions of video views a day.

Well my best day from tube traffic was 63 signups so I can believe it

That was 2008 though, 4 years is a long time but I'm gonna get back into it again as I'm curious to see how the traffic converts in 2012

Another important point to mention, the people who know what they are doing and are converting great sure as fuck are not going to post their stats, methods, niche, marketing practices etc

You've also got a lot of people on this forum who have a one track mind concerning the tubes, so even if they have run some tests with tube traffic I can guarantee you a lot of them will not have put any real effort in on purpose so that their results can match their pre conceived opinion that tubes are bad and are not worth the effort.

BTW Back then I was converting between 1:150 & 1:200, I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment of the amount of views needed though and it is hard work but my point is it's entirely doable.

[myjah]

Originally Posted by epitome

The number of inaccuracies in your reply is staggering.

This..

[Three.Thousand]

A quick! look at some videos on big tubes, shows that perhaps a video gets about 1k-10k views a day.

Lets say you want 40 signups a day,
Apply any values for views,ctr and signup ratio you want to satisfy your exceptions for your site and ads and see how many videos with 1k-10k views you need to fulfill said 40 signups.

Then, do it again 30 days for a month, and lets see how many scenes you had to shoot per day to make $1200 per day (40 joins at $30) before costs.


(i feel there is something wrong in my post but cant figure out what... anyhow, fuck it. tired and need to take the dog out.)

[notinmybackyard]

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

Your words about the old style affiliates versus the new pro-pirate affiliates are spot on. I've considered the same thing myself and I believe if it continues on like this and with ctr and ratios increasing along with many sponsors screwing over affiliates a lot of the old style affiliates are going to move to pro-piracy models further decimating the adult paysite industry. It's already happening among some of the affiliates who haven't made a lot under the traditional model. They crossed over because they have little to lose.

You pretty much said it in your later paragraphes but to be explicit. Moving to pro piracy models is really short sighted and again resorting back to the make a fast dollar mentality.

If I could change only 1 thing about the current situation it would be to kick out all those that are not directly involved in the production of porn. Too many people got in with no skills or nothing to offer and they saturated the market.

It is the web kiddies that create thousands of porn blogs with free content..
It is the web leach that sells a lie about free porn making money in order to earn a pennies from advertising...
It is the dumb ass surfer fucking his girlfriend and uploading it on the net for free that drives the belief that shit filmed by a cell phone is better than studio quality
It
It is again the web twit that only worries about next month's rent instead of the next 5 years of profit margins.

The porn industry needs to start coming together and collectively deciding who they will do business with and who has to go. The only question is will it happen?? I sincerly doubt it.

[alf6300]

Originally Posted by notinmybackyard

You pretty much said it in your later paragraphes but to be explicit. Moving to pro piracy models is really short sighted and again resorting back to the make a fast dollar mentality.

If I could change only 1 thing about the current situation it would be to kick out all those that are not directly involved in the production of porn. Too many people got in with no skills or nothing to offer and they saturated the market.

It is the web kiddies that create thousands of porn blogs with free content..
It is the web leach that sells a lie about free porn making money in order to earn a pennies from advertising...
It is the dumb ass surfer fucking his girlfriend and uploading it on the net for free that drives the belief that shit filmed by a cell phone is better than studio quality
It
It is again the web twit that only worries about next month's rent instead of the next 5 years of profit margins.

The porn industry needs to start coming together and collectively deciding who they will do business with and who has to go. The only question is will it happen?? I sincerly doubt it.

You want a porn police? isn't what the market is supposed to do? As long as people pay for it, it has a market and its good at least for someone, no?

[signupdamnit]

Originally Posted by Paul

Well my best day from tube traffic was 63 signups so I can believe it

That was 2008 though, 4 years is a long time but I'm gonna get back into it again as I'm curious to see how the traffic converts in 2012

Another important point to mention, the people who know what they are doing and are converting great sure as fuck are not going to post their stats, methods, niche, marketing practices etc

You've also got a lot of people on this forum who have a one track mind concerning the tubes, so even if they have run some tests with tube traffic I can guarantee you a lot of them will not have put any real effort in on purpose so that their results can match their pre conceived opinion that tubes are bad and are not worth the effort.

BTW Back then I was converting between 1:150 & 1:200, I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment of the amount of views needed though and it is hard work but my point is it's entirely doable.

I've made around 15 sales on less than 1,000 uniques back in 2008 as well with a great new site by sending perfectly matched traffic. But that was back in 2008 too-- before the content was given out freely all over the internet by pirates and their supporters.

[notinmybackyard]

Originally Posted by alf6300

You want a porn police? isn't what the market is supposed to do? As long as people pay for it, it has a market and its good at least for someone, no?

Porn police???
Regarless if it is OPEC or Apple and Microsoft... Consulting with your competitors and implimenting prodcedures to grow the market in a controlled method has been part of a free market since the time of creation.

Personally I consult with my competition on my issues.
I ask if a girl is good to shoot or not and how much did they pay her.
I ask if they have had any problem putting a certain tye of video on the market or not.
I ask what they are doing to fight against piracy. (It is how I found stopfilelockers.com)

The list of questions and issues I will cooperate on is long. Just because we are competitors does not make us enemies. Many times cooperating puts more money in both of our pockets. But I think in your situation that part of the problem is the american cowboy mentality that is a big part of the United States porn industry and market. The cowboy mentality is what makes the United States porn industry so dynamic but it is also sadly the greatest problem.

[Three.Thousand]

Those who submit scenes to tubes, do you also submit scenes to piracy forums (its not piracy anymore if you, the owner is submitting it right?)

That's also people who would never paid for the content anyway.
DMCA everyone else who submits your content, but also make sure to monetize it by you having working links.

[notinmybackyard]

Originally Posted by body

they really sell on streets? holy shit

You are american. I know it does not happen in the United States but in europe the gypsies are every where selling everything and anything they can get their hands on.

So yes they sell them on the streets. Most put down a blanket on the ground and spread the DVDs out on them. The blanket is because if the police show up they can just grab the four corners of the blanket and run away with their DVDs.

They are my biggest problem and it is the file lockers that cause this problem.

[Brad Mitchell]

Originally Posted by Monotony

I'm just happy with the bandwidth optimization that adobe has brought, it really has lowered the bar for competition in mass.

None of the large tube sites use Flash Media Server or Wowza for streaming their videos. You're uneducated. They don't because both are whores on system resources and they thrash the hard drives so it doesn't scale cost effectively.

Brad