The 23 executive actions on gun control

[crockett]

http://www.scribd.com/doc/120650573/...cutive-Actions

I don't really see anything out of line with any of these. They seem to do pretty much what should be done are are with-in the intent of the current laws.

I'd really like to see any pro gun supporters come up with a reasonable argument about why any of them are bad, because for most part they all deal with strengthening existing laws & regulations.

They are mostly about doing better background checks & better training. I can't see anything wrong with that, but I'm sure someone will try to say it's taking their guns away (likely someone that has a criminal or mental history)

[spazlabz]

thats a very good read and I have to agree with you, all of them seem pretty reasonable to me. However, many of them will carry a tax burden which will make them repugnant to tea bagger fanatics

[DirtyDanza]

the medical records release is a direct violation of patient privacy
just another way for him to act like hitler

[spazlabz]

Originally Posted by DirtyDanza

the medical records release is a direct violation of patient privacy
just another way for him to act like hitler

depends on how its handled. If a person is diagnosed with a mental health issue that means they are potentially a danger to themselves or others or if they are a convicted felon then it is not a violation of their privacy to prevent them from buying firearms. have a code for those not able to purchase guns and provide those codes to the agencies responsible for the lists. There is no need to expand the why. Just prevent them from buying a gun.

[DirtyDanza]

ok so your daughter is raped by 6 doods in her apt.. she seeks counceling for grief and is put on anti depresants ... she gets over it as time passes now she can't buy a weapon to protect herself from the same thing happening again....

thats fair to you?

[Verbal]

Originally Posted by DirtyDanza

ok so your daughter is raped by 6 doods in her apt.. she seeks counceling for grief and is put on anti depresants ... she gets over it as time passes now she can't buy a weapon to protect herself from the same thing happening again....

thats fair to you?

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Does losing your child in a school shooting seem fair to you? Something has to be done.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by DirtyDanza

the medical records release is a direct violation of patient privacy
just another way for him to act like hitler

Hate to break it to you but the mentally ill part is already in the laws, but it just hasn't been enforced with-in the background check.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by DirtyDanza

ok so your daughter is raped by 6 doods in her apt.. she seeks counceling for grief and is put on anti depresants ... she gets over it as time passes now she can't buy a weapon to protect herself from the same thing happening again....

thats fair to you?

The existing law has a time table.. and it's mostly about threatening someone or your own life. It's not a hey you were on Prozac in 1979 so you can never buy a gun.

[PornoMonster]

Besides #18 None would have prevented or helped.

Big Taxes....

I think this is just the Foot in the door proposal.

"Obama is signing the 23 executive actions. These actions are in addition to laws that Obama wants Congress to pass"

[bronco67]

Gun people, answer a question.

Wouldn't you agree that its ok to make it as difficult as possible to get a gun, considering its function is to kill? Let's assume we're able to buy everything from a .25 auto all the way to a barret 50 cal --except its a more thorough check to confirm the likelihood that you might go on a shooting spree.

We all know if someone wants a gun, they're going to get it if they're resourceful and know the right people. But if a few future mass murderers are left gun-less because they felt it would be to much of a hassle, and they might not pass a screening -- wouldn't it be worth a little inconvenience for the rest of us?

or does that make too much fucking sense?

[grumpy]

Originally Posted by DirtyDanza

the medical records release is a direct violation of patient privacy
just another way for him to act like hitler

You sure are an idiot. don't speak about things you don't understand

[crockett]

Originally Posted by PornoMonster

Besides #18 None would have prevented or helped.

Big Taxes....

I think this is just the Foot in the door proposal.

"Obama is signing the 23 executive actions. These actions are in addition to laws that Obama wants Congress to pass"

Actually you don't know that. It's pretty unlikely that that kid would have gone on a shooting rampage if he didn't have guns in his home and easy access to them. No law can ever stop a criminal, but you can make it harder for them to get the tools.

It's just like a bank, if law alone stopped people from braking in and stealing all the money then they could just leave it all stacked in the back room. Of course we can't do that and they have to use safes in attempt to make it harder to rob a bank. Yet even that isn't a total solution but it helps quite a bit.

With gun violence, there is no total solution, but we can do our best to help stop at least some of it.

[DWB]

He should have made 100 instead of 23. Hell, go big and try for 1000. Not gonna make a difference.

People who kill other people pay zero attention to the law, and that should be painfully obvious by the fact they are trying to murder someone.

[bronco67]

You can't take away people's desire to kill, but you can make it harder for them to do it.

[epitome]

Originally Posted by DWB

He should have made 100 instead of 23. Hell, go big and try for 1000. Not gonna make a difference.

People who kill other people pay zero attention to the law, and that should be painfully obvious by the fact they are trying to murder someone.

There are always going to be a few doctors that defraud medicare so they may as well stop audits.

There are always going to be people that speed even if ticketed so we might as well save money and stop buying radar guns.

There are always going to be stores that sell cigarettes to minors so might as well not require IDs.

Some people will use fake IDs to get into bars so why bother checking IDs?

Some people will...

[epitome]

If Obama were a super hero that stopped every senseless death before it happened the same characters would be here bitching about over population.

[bronco67]

Anyone else see this NRA ad today?



The sad thing is they have no idea how slimy they are.

[PornoMonster]

Originally Posted by crockett

Actually you don't know that. It's pretty unlikely that that kid would have gone on a shooting rampage if he didn't have guns in his home and easy access to them. No law can ever stop a criminal, but you can make it harder for them to get the tools.

It's just like a bank, if law alone stopped people from braking in and stealing all the money then they could just leave it all stacked in the back room. Of course we can't do that and they have to use safes in attempt to make it harder to rob a bank. Yet even that isn't a total solution but it helps quite a bit.

With gun violence, there is no total solution, but we can do our best to help stop at least some of it.

If there were not Guns in the HOME... LOVE it.
Oh and he was an ADULT...

[crockett]

Originally Posted by PornoMonster

If there were not Guns in the HOME... LOVE it.
Oh and he was an ADULT...

He was a young adult and was mentally ill. He most likely would have never been able to get his hands on that type of gun, had his mother not owned them. You don't just walk down the street and find a AK47 or a M16, not to mention they cost a quite a bit these days. Even a pistol requires a background check.

Even private sellers usually require FFL transfers with-in their own states if they are responsible because it protects them from legal accountability.

With out the easy access via his mothers guns, he simply wouldn't of had them. They weren't his he didn't buy them.

[brassmonkey]

when gangs were shooting and stray bullets killed kids the gov didnt do shit. we know the real reason its a big issue now. just like when meth hit heavy.

[DWB]

Originally Posted by epitome

There are always going to be a few doctors that defraud medicare so they may as well stop audits.

There are always going to be people that speed even if ticketed so we might as well save money and stop buying radar guns.

There are always going to be stores that sell cigarettes to minors so might as well not require IDs.

Some people will use fake IDs to get into bars so why bother checking IDs?

Some people will...

You're right, 23 new executive actions fixes it all up. Everyone is safe now.

All criminals and lunatics will follow the law from this day forward and promise to subject themselves to proper background checks and all existing firearms will be registered.

[DWB]

Originally Posted by crockett

He was a young adult and was mentally ill. He most likely would have never been able to get his hands on that type of gun, had his mother not owned them. You don't just walk down the street and find a AK47 or a M16, not to mention they cost a quite a bit these days. Even a pistol requires a background check.

It is incredibly easy to get a firearm without a background check and one does not need to buy a AK47 to go on a killing spree. Why is everyone so hung up on assault rifles as if they are the root of all the problems? If they can't get their first choice of weapon (assuming they even want an assault rifle) they are not going to throw in the towel and go home. They are going to get whatever gun they can get and not care if it is obtained legally or not.

You guys really need to stop thinking in terms of legality and background checks. That matters as much as seeing a pharmacist to get marijuana.

[DTK]

Originally Posted by bronco67

Anyone else see this NRA ad today?



The sad thing is they have no idea how slimy they are.

Classic false equivalence arguments. Brought to you by the same guys who blamed the Newtown tragedy on violent video games, then a month later released a shooting app for kids.

I think the NRA leadership knows how slimy they are and they don't care.

They're blatantly going against the will of their membership (which is in favor of common sense gun regulations), and they don't care.

As long as those big checks from the gun manufacturers keep rolling in....it's all good.

[Due]

Originally Posted by DirtyDanza

ok so your daughter is raped by 6 doods in her apt.. she seeks counceling for grief and is put on anti depresants ... she gets over it as time passes now she can't buy a weapon to protect herself from the same thing happening again....

thats fair to you?

What if she doesn't get over it and end up shooting you after you picked her up at a club because of a flash back memory ?
Does that sound fair to you ?
Ohh wait, you'd be carrying too so you could shoot her first...

Would you feel good about shooting a rape victim that was in panic ?
Have you ever had a gun pulled at your head so you know what you would do ?

[tony286]

Originally Posted by DTK

Classic false equivalence arguments. Brought to you by the same guys who blamed the Newtown tragedy on violent video games, then a month later released a shooting app for kids.

I think the NRA leadership knows how slimy they are and they don't care.

They're blatantly going against the will of their membership (which is in favor of common sense gun regulations), and they don't care.

As long as those big checks from the gun manufacturers keep rolling in....it's all good.

Yep slimy , two of their board members Grover Norquist and Larry (the foot tapper ) Craig.

[tony286]

Originally Posted by DirtyDanza

the medical records release is a direct violation of patient privacy
just another way for him to act like hitler

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...obama-tyranny/
Reagan?s solicitor general scoffs at right?s fantasy about Obama ?tyranny?

[DWB]

Originally Posted by tony286

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...obama-tyranny/
Reagan?s solicitor general scoffs at right?s fantasy about Obama ?tyranny?

I also don't understand the whole tyranny thing, or comparing him to Hitler. Don't see anything in his new executive actions that will stop honest, sane, law abiding citizens from getting whatever firearms they want. I don't believe it's going to stop bad people from getting them, but it certainly shouldn't stop good people.

Seems like a lot of hype over nothing.

[Mr Pheer]

The only thing I have an issue with, is the assault weapon ban and the high capacity magazine ban.

I have no issues whatsoever with background checks on every gun purchase, private or not, and no issues with the mental health reporting as long as it has its checks & balances.

I wouldnt have an issue with background checks for high capacity magazines either. But outright banning them just seems stupid to me.

And it seems like the majority of people seem to think that the assault weapon ban of the 90's actually banned assault weapons. Actually, it did no such thing. It only stopped a weapon from having too many features... such as a bayonet lug. So guess what happened? You didnt buy a weapon with a bayonet lug. You could still buy an assault weapon that had every other feature that you wanted. Or at least the ones that I wanted.

The assault weapon ban just seems like a waste of time and money, as it didnt solve anything before and it wont solve anything now. I doubt that congress will pass it. Even if they do, there will still be just as many (if not more) assault weapons being produced and sold... without a bayonet lug. Big deal.

[tony286]

Originally Posted by DWB

I also don't understand the whole tyranny thing, or comparing him to Hitler. Don't see anything in his new executive actions that will stop honest, sane, law abiding citizens from getting whatever firearms they want. I don't believe it's going to stop bad people from getting them, but it certainly shouldn't stop good people.

Seems like a lot of hype over nothing.

I think they should ban none of it, but tighten up on regulations,on gun dealers and mandatory training. 80 percent of illegal guns came thru gun dealers.

[Minte]

Originally Posted by epitome

If Obama were a super hero that stopped every senseless death before it happened the same characters would be here bitching about over population.

Why is it you are so madly in love with this guy?

[epitome]

Originally Posted by Minte

Why is it you are so madly in love with this guy?

I'm not. I voted for him but only because Romney was a joke. If Hillary had went against him she would have had my vote. It's ridiculous that some people refuse to give him any credit though. Many people think he hasn't done a single good thing and they don't base that on actual facts but instead their misinformed opinions.

How many times now has something been posted here that is nowhere near the truth but 50% of posters think it is?

He was even called Hitler in this thread and the person posting it wasn't joking.

[DWB]

Originally Posted by tony286

80 percent of illegal guns came thru gun dealers.

As in gun shops or does that include gun shows?

[Minte]

Originally Posted by epitome

I'm not. I voted for him but only because Romney was a joke. If Hillary had went against him she would have had my vote. It's ridiculous that some people refuse to give him any credit though. Many people think he hasn't done a single good thing and they don't base that on actual facts but instead their misinformed opinions.

How many times now has something been posted here that is nowhere near the truth but 50% of posters think it is?

He was even called Hitler in this thread and the person posting it wasn't joking.

What one good thing has he done for me?

[tony286]

Originally Posted by DWB

As in gun shops or does that include gun shows?

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CREC-19...t1-PgS9102.pdf

home gun dealers seem to be a big problem.

[tony286]

Originally Posted by Minte

What one good thing has he done for me?

Nothing,there are you happy? lol

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by DirtyDanza

ok so your daughter is raped by 6 doods in her apt.. she seeks counceling for grief and is put on anti depresants ... she gets over it as time passes now she can't buy a weapon to protect herself from the same thing happening again....

thats fair to you?

That's correct.

She shouldn't be able to purchase a handgun because she may have mental health issues AND is on anti depressants. Plus, she would also have a grudge against men in general, and might be too quick to react under improper circumstances - Mean, if someone her age is hitting on her asking for a date she might think she's about to be attacked and she can shoot him without a valid reason.

If she wants to protect herself, she can buy a dog and install an alarm system.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by bronco67

Anyone else see this NRA ad today?



The sad thing is they have no idea how slimy they are.

I love this.

There is a huge difference between my child and the children of the President. My child will not be targeted by terrorist groups, where as without security the President's children would be. On top of that, if any terrorist group does target his kids, tens of thousands of people will get caught in the cross fire as we go to war like we did after 9/11.

Use some fucking common sense here already.

BTW, the ad fails to mention the President of the NRA sends his kids to the same school.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by DWB

It is incredibly easy to get a firearm without a background check and one does not need to buy a AK47 to go on a killing spree. Why is everyone so hung up on assault rifles as if they are the root of all the problems? If they can't get their first choice of weapon (assuming they even want an assault rifle) they are not going to throw in the towel and go home. They are going to get whatever gun they can get and not care if it is obtained legally or not.

You guys really need to stop thinking in terms of legality and background checks. That matters as much as seeing a pharmacist to get marijuana.

There is no need for the average home owner or civilian to have an assault rifle. The AR15 is the exact weapon I trained with in the Marine Corps. Don't get me no crap about how they are different; Even in the Marines were taught to fire one shot at a time.

[brassmonkey]

Originally Posted by Rochard

There is no need for the average home owner or civilian to have an assault rifle. The AR15 is the exact weapon I trained with in the Marine Corps. Don't get me no crap about how they are different; Even in the Marines were taught to fire one shot at a time.

its none of your business what guns they have. who gives a fuck about your training?

[buzzard]

Originally Posted by crockett

http://www.scribd.com/doc/120650573/...cutive-Actions

I don't really see anything out of line with any of these. They seem to do pretty much what should be done are are with-in the intent of the current laws.

You're kidding right?

These dog and pony show 'Executive Orders' on the backs of children show nothing but contempt for the people, the congress and the Bill of Rights.
Moreover, it implicates health care professionals, makes stool pigeons and rats out of doctors and creates a 'spy on your neighbor', snitch state. All of which are a staple hallmark of tyrannical governments throughout history.

This is another piece in the puzzle of what's going to come around and slap you in the face... let's hope you wake up before you make it to the FEMA camp.

[Elli]

Originally Posted by brassmonkey

its none of your business what guns they have.

And therein lies the argument. Is it a citizen's right to know what weapons his neighbour is keeping stored at his property? I would love to know if there was a handful of weapons next door that could be stolen and used against our neighbourhood. And if I don't get to know, I would at least hope there's a registry in a government office somewhere that knows. The cops at least should know what weaponry is in what house when they come knocking.

[Mr Pheer]

Originally Posted by Rochard

There is no need for the average home owner or civilian to have an assault rifle. The AR15 is the exact weapon I trained with in the Marine Corps. Don't get me no crap about how they are different; Even in the Marines were taught to fire one shot at a time.

Very few homeowners have assault rifles. Marines do not train on the AR15 anymore than the Army does. Which is not at all.

AR15 = semi automatic rifle, which falls under the definition of assault weapon in most cases
M16 = assault rifle, capable of full-auto or burst, depending on variant

They are not the same any more than porn depicting 17year olds is the same as porn depicting 18year olds. Both are porn, both are teens, but yet they fall under very different legal definitions. Just as an AR15 and M16 fall under very different legal definitions.

[Mr Pheer]

Originally Posted by Rochard

That's correct.

She shouldn't be able to purchase a handgun because she may have mental health issues AND is on anti depressants. Plus, she would also have a grudge against men in general, and might be too quick to react under improper circumstances - Mean, if someone her age is hitting on her asking for a date she might think she's about to be attacked and she can shoot him without a valid reason.

If she wants to protect herself, she can buy a dog and install an alarm system.

Originally Posted by Rochard

Use some fucking common sense here already.

I'm beginning to think that you are just here as a troll.

[PornoMonster]

Originally Posted by crockett

He was a young adult and was mentally ill. He most likely would have never been able to get his hands on that type of gun, had his mother not owned them. You don't just walk down the street and find a AK47 or a M16, not to mention they cost a quite a bit these days. Even a pistol requires a background check.

Even private sellers usually require FFL transfers with-in their own states if they are responsible because it protects them from legal accountability.

With out the easy access via his mothers guns, he simply wouldn't of had them. They weren't his he didn't buy them.

Right, there is a Law that weapons should of been locked up. I guess they were not.
So, hey send the mom to jail... Oh wait she is dead...

Oh No one walks down the street with a M-16, very few are even owned by private people...

[PornoMonster]

Originally Posted by Elli

And therein lies the argument. Is it a citizen's right to know what weapons his neighbour is keeping stored at his property? I would love to know if there was a handful of weapons next door that could be stolen and used against our neighbourhood. And if I don't get to know, I would at least hope there's a registry in a government office somewhere that knows. The cops at least should know what weaponry is in what house when they come knocking.

NO

And your nosey ass questions will stop what?

[PornoMonster]

Originally Posted by Rochard

There is no need for the average home owner or civilian to have an assault rifle. The AR15 is the exact weapon I trained with in the Marine Corps. Don't get me no crap about how they are different; Even in the Marines were taught to fire one shot at a time.

Or handguns either
a .22-caliber Walther P22 semi-automatic handgun and a 9 mm semi-automatic Glock 19 handgun
32 people killed 17 wounded
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Tech_massacre

[epitome]

Originally Posted by Minte

What one good thing has he done for me?

He gives you something to complain about and considering how often you do it I imagine that is important to you.

Glass half full. ;)

[Minte]

Originally Posted by epitome

He gives you something to complain about and considering how often you do it I imagine that is important to you.

Glass half full. ;)

I run a business with employees. I have plenty to complain about if anyone really wanted to listen. So complaining about an elected official is not a good thing.
Do you have any others?

I still stand behind my comment. Anytime anyone says anything even remotely negative about Obama, you are right here to defend him.

Kind of like you're smitten with him.

[bronco67]

Originally Posted by Rochard

I love this.

There is a huge difference between my child and the children of the President. My child will not be targeted by terrorist groups, where as without security the President's children would be. On top of that, if any terrorist group does target his kids, tens of thousands of people will get caught in the cross fire as we go to war like we did after 9/11.

Use some fucking common sense here already.

BTW, the ad fails to mention the President of the NRA sends his kids to the same school.

Some people would call it a false equivalency.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by Mr Pheer

Very few homeowners have assault rifles. Marines do not train on the AR15 anymore than the Army does. Which is not at all.

AR15 = semi automatic rifle, which falls under the definition of assault weapon in most cases
M16 = assault rifle, capable of full-auto or burst, depending on variant

With the exception of the M16 being fully automatic, they are in fact the same exact weapon.

Which is which?





Even Wikipedia says that the AR15 is nothing more than a variant of the M16:

Colt's first two models produced after the acquisition of the rifle from ArmaLite were the 601 and 602, and these rifles were in many ways clones of the original ArmaLite rifle (in fact, these rifles were often found stamped Colt ArmaLite AR-15, Property of the U.S. Government caliber .223, with no reference to them being M16s). The 601 and 602 are easily identified by their flat lower receivers without raised surfaces around the magazine well and occasionally green or brown furniture.