Raising the Minimum Wage Is Good for Business (But the Corporate Lobby Doesn't Think So) - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

GrantMercury · 02-23-2013, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bossku69

Totally fucking stupid. This now costs most employers not just more money to pay someone, but also more in payroll taxes.

Now prices everywhere will go up to cover these costs then more consumers will bitch about increased costs from food to shitty products at Walmart.

Fact is half the population believes they deserve more than what they are worth and refuse to take a job below $50k a year while they can sit and collect unemployment or welfare. What is the extra $1 to $1.75/hr really going to do for the average employee? Just enough to get them off welfare?

Repiggies hate welfare. Repuggies hate raising the minimum wage. Repiggies are never happy.

GrantMercury · 02-23-2013, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

But what about the price of everything going up more to compensate for the higher wages being paid?

In other words...let's say Minimum Wage Guy (most likely a guy who is brand new at his job and hasn't worked long enough or done a good enough job to get a raise yet) made $100 (just using an easy number)...and his living expenses were $99.

Now the miminum wage goes up and he makes $105. But businesses raise the price of goods to reflect the new higher price of labor costs. So now his living expenses are $104.

Seems to me that all the minimum wage does is just keep driving prices up over the years.

Also, doesn't the minimum wage only apply to full time employees? Sounds to me like a lot of folks are about to become "part time".

Yes...it would be great in a world of unicorns and rainbows if we could just raise the minimum wage and everybody would now have more spending power.

But here in the real world...the price of things will just go up and the new "spending power" will be nullified.

I'd much rather have the minimum wage at $1 an hour and have the cost of things back to where that would actually buy you stuff.

Labor costs are a HUGE part of any business. Wages, matching taxes, retirement funds, health care...it's just ridiculous.

I know that I'm not here on this Earth to take care of other people like they are babies. So why would any other business want to?

I don't see how anybody could think that raising the minimum wage would ever actually help anybody.
And I especially can not understand the thinking behind doing it when unemployment is already so high.

We should be coming up with ways to employ MORE people. Not creating new ways to make labor cost more expensive.

Raising the minimum wage stimulates the economy. That creates jobs.

brandonstills · 02-23-2013, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherry7

The worker has to find money to live and eat, the capitalist has the wealth and power.

Everyone must find means to live and eat?that's reality and there is no avoiding it. As far as the people with capital, they worked hard and lived frugally to acquire it. The poor person has the ability to do this as well. The capitalist just started the process earlier or more strictly followed it. I'm with you on those who stole the money like the bankers and crony capitalists though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherry7

Only Trade Union and socialist political parties can help redress the balance. Then we see whose side the government is really on, when it uses the full force of the state to cripple the unions, slander and destroy any real political opposition to the dictatorship of the rich.

You are focusing on "balance" and re-distribution instead of creating wealth. Socialist agenda is about making the poor person richer, by making a rich person poorer. Leave the rich person alone and focus on how you can help the poor person can create THEIR OWN wealth. The world won't grow in prosperity by fighting over it. It needs to cooperate and build new wealth. Wealth is created from the application of labor, capital, and technology. I would encourage you to find ways to create wealth instead of take from others who you feel have "no right" to what they earned.

You can't bring the poor out of prosperity by punishing the rich. Slicing the pie into more pieces doesn't result in more wealth. Potential wealth is infinite.

There are universal laws of cause and effect. The most effective way to bring people out of poverty is to discover those principles and follow them.

"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime". Plus you aren't robbing someone else of fish that they worked hard for and justly deserve to keep.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherry7

Those proposing not having a minimum are barking mad, you need a minimum amount to keep alive and to breed new workers.

What is your supporting argument for this proposition? Society has been able to breed for countless ages without minimum wage. Surely, minimum wage is not a requirement for breeding.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherry7

Remember if you have a slave you have to feed him and house him, not paying a minimum means you want to have a situation worse than slavery.

This doesn't follow. We are talking about minimum wage, not slavery. A slave is someone who is forced to work for another's benefit without their consent. Any person who has a job is there by their own volition.

Slaves were beaten, starved, raped, and didn't have any freedom. I don't see how offering someone a job for less than minimum wage is worst than that. They can always refused and even if they accept, they still aren't beaten, starved, etc, and they still have freedom to leave and find something better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherry7

A civilized society would have a living wage and a MAXIMUM wage. A maximum wage 3 times the minimum wage.

Why? What's your definition of civilized?

My definition of civilized is a society in which people are free to do what they want as long as they don't harm anyone else. Offering someone a job, no matter what the salary is, doesn't count as harm in my book.

brandonstills · 02-23-2013, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantMercury

Raising the minimum wage stimulates the economy. That creates jobs.

Right........ And your evidence for this is.....?

PornoMonster · 02-23-2013, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantMercury

Raising the minimum wage stimulates the economy. That creates jobs.

Serious? Wow, let's raise that shit every week then, until we are out of this mess, and no national debt left.......

brandonstills · 02-23-2013, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PornoMonster

Serious? Wow, let's raise that shit every week then, until we are out of this mess, and no national debt left.......

Nah, let's just make it $1,000 an hour. That way there will be no such thing as a poor person.

PornoMonster · 02-23-2013, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brandonstills

Nah, let's just make it $1,000 an hour. That way there will be no such thing as a poor person.

Sir Your Happy Meal is $426.83, Please pull around.

GrantMercury · 02-23-2013, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brandonstills

Right........ And your evidence for this is.....?

Demand creates jobs. It's the only thing that does. Putting more money in the pockets of the masses stimulates demand. It's pretty simple.

Corporate profits are at historic highs. Productivity is way up. But the workers are have been getting fucked. They don't have money to buy shit, so there is no demand. So there's no hiring.

Wages haven?t kept pace with recovery, study finds
http://www.boston.com/business/artic...y_study_finds/

The minimum wage needs to rise.

GrantMercury · 02-23-2013, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brandonstills

Nah, let's just make it $1,000 an hour. That way there will be no such thing as a poor person.

Grow the fuck up.

GrantMercury · 02-23-2013, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherry7

A civilized society would have a living wage and a MAXIMUM wage. A maximum wage 3 times the minimum wage.

http://www.nobillionaires.com/

GrantMercury · 02-23-2013, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PornoMonster

Here in the mid west, I see lots of help wanted signs, and the job section of the newspaper is once again several pages long. Problem is, welfare and other benefits pay more than $9 an hour, so why work...

Sounds like a reason to raise the minimum wage to me.

GrantMercury · 02-23-2013, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

But what about the price of everything going up more to compensate for the higher wages being paid?

In other words...let's say Minimum Wage Guy (most likely a guy who is brand new at his job and hasn't worked long enough or done a good enough job to get a raise yet) made $100 (just using an easy number)...and his living expenses were $99.

Now the miminum wage goes up and he makes $105. But businesses raise the price of goods to reflect the new higher price of labor costs. So now his living expenses are $104.

Seems to me that all the minimum wage does is just keep driving prices up over the years.

Also, doesn't the minimum wage only apply to full time employees? Sounds to me like a lot of folks are about to become "part time".

Yes...it would be great in a world of unicorns and rainbows if we could just raise the minimum wage and everybody would now have more spending power.

But here in the real world...the price of things will just go up and the new "spending power" will be nullified.

I'd much rather have the minimum wage at $1 an hour and have the cost of things back to where that would actually buy you stuff.

Labor costs are a HUGE part of any business. Wages, matching taxes, retirement funds, health care...it's just ridiculous.

I know that I'm not here on this Earth to take care of other people like they are babies. So why would any other business want to?

I don't see how anybody could think that raising the minimum wage would ever actually help anybody.
And I especially can not understand the thinking behind doing it when unemployment is already so high.

We should be coming up with ways to employ MORE people. Not creating new ways to make labor cost more expensive.

You're killing me with this shit. By that logic we should slash wages. Then the cost of goods will plummet and the poor will have a higher standard of living because everything will be dirt cheap. Does that make sense to you?

GrantMercury · 02-23-2013, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uniquemkt

A rise in minimum wage always brings a rise in inflation to compensate. The only reason minimum wage has ever risen is to meet the current (or projected) inflation-adjusted cost of living. You aren't magically making more wealth, you're just making more paper dollars to compensate for that dollar's value being reduced. Raising the minimum wage ahead of inflation will increase the rate of that inflation, raising it behind has at least some potential to reduce the rate.

I am often surprised at how otherwise intelligent and informed people just can't put those pieces together. Historically, minimum wage has never been enough to support a single worker family of 4.

So we should slash wages? That will help the working class and the economy?

GrantMercury · 02-23-2013, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony286

Why does it always to go to the extreme and silly? Fact we are a consumer based economy ,if people cant afford to consume it doesnt work.

Exactly. There is TONS of money sitting in the coffers of corporate America. They don't give it to the workers who actually did the work and amassed the corporate fortunes. The workers they pay as little as they can legally get away with.

And even THAT is too much sometimes:

Quote:

Wal-Mart and its staffing agencies failed to follow federal minimum wage and overtime laws when they required temporary workers to appear early for work, stay late to complete work and work through lunches and breaks, according to a federal class-action lawsuit filed Monday.

http://www.suntimes.com/business/159...ver-wages.html

tony286 · 02-23-2013, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

But what about the price of everything going up more to compensate for the higher wages being paid?

In other words...let's say Minimum Wage Guy (most likely a guy who is brand new at his job and hasn't worked long enough or done a good enough job to get a raise yet) made $100 (just using an easy number)...and his living expenses were $99.

Now the miminum wage goes up and he makes $105. But businesses raise the price of goods to reflect the new higher price of labor costs. So now his living expenses are $104.

Seems to me that all the minimum wage does is just keep driving prices up over the years.

Also, doesn't the minimum wage only apply to full time employees? Sounds to me like a lot of folks are about to become "part time".

Yes...it would be great in a world of unicorns and rainbows if we could just raise the minimum wage and everybody would now have more spending power.

But here in the real world...the price of things will just go up and the new "spending power" will be nullified.

I'd much rather have the minimum wage at $1 an hour and have the cost of things back to where that would actually buy you stuff.

Labor costs are a HUGE part of any business. Wages, matching taxes, retirement funds, health care...it's just ridiculous.

I know that I'm not here on this Earth to take care of other people like they are babies. So why would any other business want to?

I don't see how anybody could think that raising the minimum wage would ever actually help anybody.
And I especially can not understand the thinking behind doing it when unemployment is already so high.

We should be coming up with ways to employ MORE people. Not creating new ways to make labor cost more expensive.

Newsflash, you drive the cost of wages down. People cant afford porn memberships. We are in a business that sells products.If the bottom is a dollar, then all wages go lower not higher because thats the new floor. The cost people can be charged for goods can only go as high as consumers will pay.So the $400 happy meal isnt going to happen. Also you pay for people getting paid nothing do you understand that? Someone who got laid off is 50 and cant find a job so now they are making 3 dollars an hour. you pay for it. I dont understand those people are users but companies that make large profits but pay shit so their employees have to use gov programs arent?

Robbie · 02-23-2013, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony286

Newsflash, you drive the cost of wages down. People cant afford porn memberships.

Here's another newsflash...If the cost of living wasn't so high we would drop the prices to be in line with reality.

Here's another newsflash...we already are seeing the dollar devalued and buying less and less. Now we devalue it again with another minimum wage hike, BUT we can't really raise our prices on our porn memberships (thank you piracy).

So now I will make the same amount of money (as will all the people who already have jobs and make more than minimum wage), but it will buy even LESS than before.

Is there a giant "Reset" button where we could start the U.S. economy over? lol

brandonstills · 02-24-2013, 02:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantMercury

Demand creates jobs. It's the only thing that does.

This is blatantly false. People can demand all they want, it isn't going to make the economy better. They need to have the means to purchase it as well. But nobody is going to sell to anyone unless they are compensated fairly.

brandonstills · 02-24-2013, 02:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantMercury

Exactly. There is TONS of money sitting in the coffers of corporate America. They don't give it to the workers who actually did the work and amassed the corporate fortunes. The workers they pay as little as they can legally get away with.

And even THAT is too much sometimes:

http://www.suntimes.com/business/159...ver-wages.html

What business is it of yours what someone else makes? Don't like it, don't work there. If you think you can do better then start your own company and run it how you like. They aren't forcing anyone to work there.

brandonstills · 02-24-2013, 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantMercury

Grow the fuck up.

What? Don't like it when I make fun of your logic? What's wrong with $1000 an hour? When you find the answer to that, you will know why it is wrong at $100 an hour, $10 an hour, and even $1 an hour. The principle is the same, it's only a matter of how severe you are going to make the problem.

Cherry7 · 02-24-2013, 02:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brandonstills

Everyone must find means to live and eat?that's reality and there is no avoiding it. As far as the people with capital, they worked hard and lived frugally to acquire it. The poor person has the ability to do this as well. The capitalist just started the process earlier or more strictly followed it. I'm with you on those who stole the money like the bankers and crony capitalists though.

You are focusing on "balance" and re-distribution instead of creating wealth. Socialist agenda is about making the poor person richer, by making a rich person poorer. Leave the rich person alone and focus on how you can help the poor person can create THEIR OWN wealth. The world won't grow in prosperity by fighting over it. It needs to cooperate and build new wealth. Wealth is created from the application of labor, capital, and technology. I would encourage you to find ways to create wealth instead of take from others who you feel have "no right" to what they earned.

You can't bring the poor out of prosperity by punishing the rich. Slicing the pie into more pieces doesn't result in more wealth. Potential wealth is infinite.

There are universal laws of cause and effect. The most effective way to bring people out of poverty is to discover those principles and follow them.

"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime". Plus you aren't robbing someone else of fish that they worked hard for and justly deserve to keep.

What is your supporting argument for this proposition? Society has been able to breed for countless ages without minimum wage. Surely, minimum wage is not a requirement for breeding.

This doesn't follow. We are talking about minimum wage, not slavery. A slave is someone who is forced to work for another's benefit without their consent. Any person who has a job is there by their own volition.

Slaves were beaten, starved, raped, and didn't have any freedom. I don't see how offering someone a job for less than minimum wage is worst than that. They can always refused and even if they accept, they still aren't beaten, starved, etc, and they still have freedom to leave and find something better.

Why? What's your definition of civilized?

My definition of civilized is a society in which people are free to do what they want as long as they don't harm anyone else. Offering someone a job, no matter what the salary is, doesn't count as harm in my book.

The capitalist sometimes made his own business, but mostly inherits his wealth, has access to money (hedge fund managers etc) or is lucky...makes ebay, facebook.

The system makes the rewards totally out of proportion to the contribution to society. eg facebook makes more money then new medical procedure.

All wealth is produced by work. Wealth is produced by groups of people working in society. No person can make a million on his own, (try it on an island ).

Socialist want to distribute wealth fairly to all those who create it.

In your society people are free to starve, that is freedom capitalism gives you.

GrantMercury · 02-24-2013, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brandonstills

This is blatantly false. People can demand all they want, it isn't going to make the economy better. They need to have the means to purchase it as well. But nobody is going to sell to anyone unless they are compensated fairly.

Dude, I'm not talk talking about a verbal demand.

Demand assumes the consumer HAS the means. When people have no money, there is no demand.

GrantMercury · 02-24-2013, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brandonstills

What business is it of yours what someone else makes? Don't like it, don't work there. If you think you can do better then start your own company and run it how you like. They aren't forcing anyone to work there.

Do you listen to Limbaugh? I wouldn't be shocked.

#1. Some people ARE "forced to work there" because there isn't anything else available to them. There are millions in that situation.

#2. The economy relies on people being able to afford to buy shit! The economy is sluggish. People buying shit will help the recovery. When people get a raise, they have more $$$ to spend - and when poor people get a raise, nearly all that money goes back into the economy, because they need things, (and of course they don't have offshore tax shelters to jam the money into like the rich do). The corporations are hoarding cash. Cash that should be circulating.

The $5 Trillion Stash: U.S. Corporations' Money Hoard Is Bigger Than the GDP of Germany
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/...ermany/260006/

We need to raise the minimum wage.

GrantMercury · 02-24-2013, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherry7

The capitalist sometimes made his own business, but mostly inherits his wealth, has access to money (hedge fund managers etc) or is lucky...makes ebay, facebook.

The system makes the rewards totally out of proportion to the contribution to society. eg facebook makes more money then new medical procedure.

All wealth is produced by work. Wealth is produced by groups of people working in society. No person can make a million on his own, (try it on an island ).

Oh oh! The righties are gonna call you lots of names!!!

GrantMercury · 02-24-2013, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brandonstills

What? Don't like it when I make fun of your logic? What's wrong with $1000 an hour? When you find the answer to that, you will know why it is wrong at $100 an hour, $10 an hour, and even $1 an hour. The principle is the same, it's only a matter of how severe you are going to make the problem.

Just say you're for abolishing the minimum wage altogether. Now that is has already benefited you, and you've got yours, "fuck it". Right?

GrantMercury · 02-24-2013, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PornoMonster

Serious? Wow, let's raise that shit every week then, until we are out of this mess, and no national debt left.......

You won't see me put up a fight.

PornoMonster · 02-24-2013, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantMercury

You won't see me put up a fight.

LOL you are a TOOL, if you think that was serious...

uniquemkt · 02-24-2013, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantMercury

So we should slash wages? That will help the working class and the economy?

I can speak for myself, I don't need you trying to put words in my mouth. If you took my statement as a suggestion that wages should be slashed, you're just demonstrating that your position has skewed your perception. Thanks for being so obvious though!

GrantMercury · 02-24-2013, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PornoMonster

LOL you are a TOOL, if you think that was serious...

I think the idea has some merit. You make more sense when you're not being serious.

GrantMercury · 02-24-2013, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uniquemkt

I can speak for myself, I don't need you trying to put words in my mouth. If you took my statement as a suggestion that wages should be slashed, you're just demonstrating that your position has skewed your perception. Thanks for being so obvious though!

Uh...just asked a question.

GrantMercury · 02-24-2013, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brandonstills

You're right, we need to change the physical laws of the universe in order to make them more fair.

The physical laws of the universe? WTF?

Go back to sleep.

GrantMercury · 02-24-2013, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

Cost of doing business with raised fees for things like Obama Care and increased minimum wages are good for Business?
California is proof that liberals are not about business
Texas is proof that a conservative approach works

http://economy.money.cnn.com/2012/10...ichard-fisher/ funny read

1 in 5 live in poverty in Texas. Conservative approach is working just as designed.

Quote:

Texas Governor Rick Perry likes to brag that his state is an economic powerhouse.
But don't tell that to the nearly one in five Texans who are living below the poverty line.

http://money.cnn.com/2011/09/18/news...exas/index.htm

GrantMercury · 02-24-2013, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bossku69

Fact is half the population believes they deserve more than what they are worth and refuse to take a job below $50k a year while they can sit and collect unemployment or welfare. What is the extra $1 to $1.75/hr really going to do for the average employee? Just enough to get them off welfare?

Ah yes. Welfare. How much do you really know about it? Seems there are tons of people who think you can simply quit you job and go on welfare. It's bullshit, but I guess it makes some people feel heroic as they go about their workday.

GrantMercury · 02-24-2013, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brandonstills

Everyone must find means to live and eat?that's reality and there is no avoiding it. As far as the people with capital, they worked hard and lived frugally to acquire it.

Well known scrimper & saver...

Matt 26z · 02-25-2013, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantMercury

The Republican answer is that the black populations in their southern states are bankrupting them.

They want blacks removed from welfare. When confronted with the question of where they will find work, Republicans want the minimum wage abolished so that multiple blacks can be hired to fill one current salary spot.

That, in their minds, will finally rise the south to power.

CommonSense4u · 02-25-2013, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantMercury

Well, I don't really know who makes more, but I too was surprised he suggested $9/hr. It should have been higher - at least as an opening bid.

Remember that a rising tide lifts all boats - if the minimum is set at 9, many jobs will pay more than that. Minimum wage doesn't effect only those making the minimum.

WE get it... you like that fucking analogy... I'm sorry but its a sappy little mean nothing line. You fail to look at where the rising tide is coming from, how many others had to work a large amount of the hours they work just to cover other peoples bills. Its redistribution of wealth.. and it wouldn't be as bad if it was done with a shred of guilt for the waste that is committed in its out of hand spending. It's not even done behind closed doors anymore. Right out in the open and your made to feel like if we question it there is something wrong with you...

sperbonzo · 02-25-2013, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherry7

The idea that it is a fair contract between a rich employer and a worker is laughable.

The worker has to find money to live and eat, the capitalist has the wealth and power.

Only Trade Union and socialist political parties can help redress the balance. Then we see whose side the government is really on, when it uses the full force of the state to cripple the unions, slander and destroy any real political opposition to the dictatorship of the rich.

Those proposing not having a minimum are barking mad, you need a minimum amount to keep alive and to breed new workers. Remember if you have a slave you have to feed him and house him, not paying a minimum means you want to have a situation worse than slavery.

A civilized society would have a living wage and a MAXIMUM wage. A maximum wage 3 times the minimum wage.
.

BFT3K · 02-26-2013, 09:28 AM

Karma's a bitch...

GrantMercury · 02-26-2013, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CommonSense4u

WE get it... you like that fucking analogy... I'm sorry but its a sappy little mean nothing line. You fail to look at where the rising tide is coming from...

Jesus Christ. Ya know where it comes from? From the enormous corporate profits THE WORKERS created!

Wages haven?t kept pace with recovery, study finds
The stock market is improving. Corporate profits are up dramatically. But workers? wages don?t seem to be rising, a study finds.
http://www.boston.com/business/artic...y_study_finds/

Real Wages Fail to Match a Rise in Productivity
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/28/bu...anted=all&_r=0

Corporate profits hit record as wages get squeezed
http://money.cnn.com/2012/12/03/news...its/index.html

Robbie · 02-26-2013, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantMercury

Jesus Christ. Ya know where it comes from? From the enormous corporate profits THE WORKERS created!

Why do these "workers" work for these EVIL companies then? Why don't they just go out and "create" "enormous profits" on their own since they are so great?

Answer: They can't of course. They don't have what it takes to do that kind of thing. All they want is a nice paycheck and tons of benefits with no risk of losing their ass.

You do realize that there is a reason that there are winners and losers in this world right?
And it isn't your stupid examples of Paris Hilton. She doesn't have anything to do with your theories.

Nope...it's guys in the "evil" corporate chain. Guys who started off as regular guys in a company and were such bad asses that they outworked everyone around them and rose up the corporate chain.

Years later they make the big bucks. While the less ambitious majority who are working for the weekend so they can drink beer...they get left behind.

No GrantMercury...for every person "born" into wealth, there are a hundred thousand corporate execs who worked their way through the ranks.

Not everything at the top IS cream. But the cream always does rise to the top.
And people with the mindset that you seem to have...always are at the bottom.

You seem to advocate the theory that everybody owes you something.

As Jackson Browne once sang: "Nobody owes you NOTHING."

Robbie · 02-26-2013, 04:12 PM

Maybe if Sweet Baby Jesus Obama would wise the fuck up everybody could be making good salaries from energy jobs.

http://money.cnn.com/2011/09/28/pf/n...jobs/index.htm

That was from late 2011. I just heard on the news today that employees at Walmart there are getting starting salaries of $17.50 an hour.

Fuck your "rising tide". North Dakota is proof of Trickle Down in full effect.

Loser.

Cherry7 · 02-26-2013, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Why do these "workers" work for these EVIL companies then? Why don't they just go out and "create" "enormous profits" on their own since they are so great?

Answer: They can't of course. They don't have what it takes to do that kind of thing. All they want is a nice paycheck and tons of benefits with no risk of losing their ass.

You do realize that there is a reason that there are winners and losers in this world right?
And it isn't your stupid examples of Paris Hilton. She doesn't have anything to do with your theories.

Nope...it's guys in the "evil" corporate chain. Guys who started off as regular guys in a company and were such bad asses that they outworked everyone around them and rose up the corporate chain.

Years later they make the big bucks. While the less ambitious majority who are working for the weekend so they can drink beer...they get left behind.

No GrantMercury...for every person "born" into wealth, there are a hundred thousand corporate execs who worked their way through the ranks.

Not everything at the top IS cream. But the cream always does rise to the top.
And people with the mindset that you seem to have...always are at the bottom.

You seem to advocate the theory that everybody owes you something.

As Jackson Browne once sang: "Nobody owes you NOTHING."

We don't workers go and do it for themselves?

They do not have access to land, machinery or start up capital, they also are real people in a real situation, so they are peasants thrown of the land and forced in to cities, where forced by hunger to take work in factories...

When workers have had access to land, as in America and Australia that have done exactly what you suggest - started to work for themselves as farmers. In face capitalists did have problems getting workers to work in their factories in the beginning.

Sadly Paris Hilton is the norm and the myth is what you seem to believe. Wealth stays in the same hands generation by generation. There is very little social mobility. The rich buy places for their offspring and keep the poor out of the best universities and jobs.

But please google it and find out for yourself.

Barefootsies · 02-26-2013, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Why do these "workers" work for these EVIL companies then? Why don't they just go out and "create" "enormous profits" on their own since they are so great?

Answer: They can't of course. They don't have what it takes to do that kind of thing. All they want is a nice paycheck and tons of benefits with no risk of losing their ass.

Exactly. It's not the worker's credit on the line, their cash, life savings, or balls in the vice to start the company and get it to the point of becoming successful. They are the one's who took all of the risk, and captained the ship into financial wealth or profitability. Did the workers help? Sure. They were compensated with a pay check.

Additionally, most "workers" do not bother to see the TRUE COST of their employment. It is not in their McJob paycheck. But we'll play along in shadowboxing game.

Let's say a worker makes $500.00 a week. They get full health benefits. Depending on their age, that is another $100-300.00/month for them. Include their family, now we're up to $500.00+ provided by the employer as a value add benefit. Let's add in a few weeks of paid vacation and sick time. That's another grand a year based on two weeks of paid leave. How about that Xmas bonus? Oh and let's not forget matching taxes, disability, unemployment and all of the other fees that an employer has to pay or match for each person and pay to the state or federal government.

Once you get done adding all of that up, you see the TRUE COST to an employer is much higher than their messily paychecks the worker bees earn at their McJob manning the fry-o-lator.

Robbie · 02-26-2013, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Oh and let's not forget matching taxes, disability, unemployment and all of the other fees that an employer has to pay or match for each person and pay to the state or federal government.

Yep the good old government double dipping.

Robbie · 02-26-2013, 05:03 PM

No need to raise the minimum wage artificially when the economy is roaring like it is in North Dakota. Economic forces do the job and raise the "minimum wage" naturally.
http://money.cnn.com/2011/09/28/pf/n...jobs/index.htm

But Sweet Baby Jesus is obsessed with "green energy" sources that don't really work (yet) to fulfill our energy needs as a country.

So he is doing everything he can to force fossil fuel prices UP so green energy looks more viable.

The result is a crushing and painful blow to people already struggling in his shitty economy.

Open the goddamn Keystone Pipeline and then Federal lands for drilling and watch the entire nation replicate what's going on in North Dakota.

There is no reason for us to be buying oil from those crazy Muslim countries that want to kill us all. With new technology it turns out the the United States is perhaps the most oil rich country in the world. And the same for Natural Gas.

Instead we keep paying top dollar to make people who hate us filthy rich while the answer to our energy problem AND the economy is literally right underneath us.

tony286 · 02-26-2013, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Why do these "workers" work for these EVIL companies then? Why don't they just go out and "create" "enormous profits" on their own since they are so great?

Answer: They can't of course. They don't have what it takes to do that kind of thing. All they want is a nice paycheck and tons of benefits with no risk of losing their ass.

You do realize that there is a reason that there are winners and losers in this world right?
And it isn't your stupid examples of Paris Hilton. She doesn't have anything to do with your theories.

Nope...it's guys in the "evil" corporate chain. Guys who started off as regular guys in a company and were such bad asses that they outworked everyone around them and rose up the corporate chain.

Years later they make the big bucks. While the less ambitious majority who are working for the weekend so they can drink beer...they get left behind.

No GrantMercury...for every person "born" into wealth, there are a hundred thousand corporate execs who worked their way through the ranks.

Not everything at the top IS cream. But the cream always does rise to the top.
And people with the mindset that you seem to have...always are at the bottom.

You seem to advocate the theory that everybody owes you something.

As Jackson Browne once sang: "Nobody owes you NOTHING."

What's Apple without employees? What's Ford without employees? What's Homedepot without employees? Really think about it , you can have the greatest idea, be the hardest worker on the planet if there aint a bunch of little workers under to grow and sell your product. Its just a good idea. Its like peanut and jelly. You need both.

Barefootsies · 02-26-2013, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony286

What's Apple without employees? What's Ford without employees? What's Homedepot without employees? Really think about it

Bi/weekly pay check + paid weeks off every year + health benefits + 401k/profit sharing + employer matching taxes.

When does it end?

tony286 · 02-26-2013, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Bi/weekly pay check + paid weeks off every year + health benefits + 401k/profit sharing + employer matching taxes.

When does it end?

I dont understand. so you give them nothing? How do you build a Ford then or an Apple? Whats disgust? The sales man that works for apple and sells big school contracts or some hospital now uses ipads instead of charts? Or the guy at ford who comes up with a better way to do something and save's the company money or the guys in the field who keep the dealers happy. My cousin works for a large fortune 500 company has all the perks, on a slow week he works 80 hrs a week.

Robbie · 02-26-2013, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony286

What's Apple without employees? What's Ford without employees? What's Homedepot without employees? Really think about it , you can have the greatest idea, be the hardest worker on the planet if there aint a bunch of little workers under to grow and sell your product. Its just a good idea. Its like peanut and jelly. You need both.

Those employees are there for nothing but a paycheck. They get done and go home to enjoy life.

Why would you ever think that employees following orders are the ones who really build a company? It's simply not true.

GOOD employees can definitely be an advantage to a company. So they get paid more.

All I know is every guy that ever worked for me did what they had to to just get their job done. They didn't want to work weekends or late nights.

Me? I work weekends, holidays, all day and all night. It's me with the pressure, risk, capital, etc.

If the business owner goes down, he's screwed. The employee just goes to another job.

But let's forget owners...and go back to what I said:
Executives. Both you and GrantMercury have posted stats about the "overpaid" executives.
But those guys started somewhere (at the bottom). And through higher intelligence, sacrifice, work ethic, etc. SURPASSED the average worker grunt and EARNED their way up the ladder.

This is still the land of opportunity. And nobody is stopping people from working weekends, holidays, etc. for no pay just to move ahead in a company.

But only a very, very few ever do.
The rest just do their tasks and go home.

Robbie · 02-26-2013, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony286

I Or the guy at ford who comes up with a better way to do something

Come on Tony! That "guy at Ford" would be moving right up the ladder of success and getting a fat raise if he is truly that valuable to the company. If not, he'll leave for a higher paying job at Chevy. lol

People who create success ARE successful. That's the point.

GrantMercury · 02-26-2013, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Why do these "workers" work for these EVIL companies then? Why don't they just go out and "create" "enormous profits" on their own since they are so great?

Becuause it's a COOPERATIVE EFFORT! Obviously! Did 1 man create Apple? Fuck no. Would they sell all the gadgets and gizmos that have made Apple $137,000,000,000 if they didn't have thousands of people selling them in Apple stores? Think about it. Could Steve Jobs have worked all the hours it takes to sell all the fucking things? To demonstrate how set up the email on the iPhones for the soccer moms that don't know how? What about the truckers that carry the shit to the stores? That $137,000,000,000 didn't just appear at the behest of a wunderkind computer whiz. Thousands upon thousands WORKED for it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

You seem to advocate the theory that everybody owes you something.

As Jackson Browne once sang: "Nobody owes you NOTHING."

How the fuck did you figure that? You can NOT find a single thread where I claim anyone owes me anything. Blow me.

02-26-2013, 04:12 PM	#90
Robbie Leaner, Meaner, Faster Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vegas Posts: 20,845	Maybe if Sweet Baby Jesus Obama would wise the fuck up everybody could be making good salaries from energy jobs. http://money.cnn.com/2011/09/28/pf/n...jobs/index.htm That was from late 2011. I just heard on the news today that employees at Walmart there are getting starting salaries of $17.50 an hour. Fuck your "rising tide". North Dakota is proof of Trickle Down in full effect. Loser. __________________ -Robbie ClaudiaMarie.Com

02-26-2013, 05:03 PM	#94
Robbie Leaner, Meaner, Faster Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vegas Posts: 20,845	No need to raise the minimum wage artificially when the economy is roaring like it is in North Dakota. Economic forces do the job and raise the "minimum wage" naturally. http://money.cnn.com/2011/09/28/pf/n...jobs/index.htm But Sweet Baby Jesus is obsessed with "green energy" sources that don't really work (yet) to fulfill our energy needs as a country. So he is doing everything he can to force fossil fuel prices UP so green energy looks more viable. The result is a crushing and painful blow to people already struggling in his shitty economy. Open the goddamn Keystone Pipeline and then Federal lands for drilling and watch the entire nation replicate what's going on in North Dakota. There is no reason for us to be buying oil from those crazy Muslim countries that want to kill us all. With new technology it turns out the the United States is perhaps the most oil rich country in the world. And the same for Natural Gas. Instead we keep paying top dollar to make people who hate us filthy rich while the answer to our energy problem AND the economy is literally right underneath us. __________________ -Robbie ClaudiaMarie.Com

02-26-2013, 09:28 AM	#87
BFT3K Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Narnia Posts: 10,764	Karma's a bitch...