Raising the Minimum Wage Is Good for Business (But the Corporate Lobby Doesn't Think So) - Page 3 - GoFuckYourself.com

GrantMercury · 02-26-2013, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

I just heard on the news today that employees at Walmart there are getting starting salaries of $17.50 an hour.

I'd like to hear more about that. Got a link?

Barefootsies · 02-26-2013, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

All I know is every guy that ever worked for me did what they had to to just get their job done. They didn't want to work weekends or late nights. Me? I work weekends, holidays, all day and all night. It's me with the pressure, risk, capital, etc..
If the business owner goes down, he's screwed. The employee just goes to another job.

GrantMercury · 02-26-2013, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Bi/weekly pay check + paid weeks off every year + health benefits + 401k/profit sharing + employer matching taxes.

When does it end?

Apple?s Retail Army, Long on Loyalty but Short on Pay

Quote:

Last year, during his best three-month stretch, Jordan Golson sold about $750,000 worth of computers and gadgets at the Apple Store in Salem, N.H. It was a performance that might have called for a bottle of Champagne ? if that were a luxury Mr. Golson could have afforded.

?I was earning $11.25 an hour,? he said. ?Part of me was thinking, ?This is great. I?m an Apple fan, the store is doing really well.? But when you look at the amount of money the company is making and then you look at your paycheck, it?s kind of tough.?

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/24/bu...pagewanted=all

What would Apple's sales be if not for people like Jordan? IT'S A COOPERATIVE EFFORT. And corporate profits are way up from the heightened productivity of workers - but the spoils are not being shared with them.

The 2011 Fortune 500: The Big Boys Rack Up Record-Setting Profits
http://www.dailyfinance.com/2012/05/...etting-profit/

Quote:

"Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will."
Frederick Douglass

We must demand an increase in the minimum wage. The workers have more than earned it.

GrantMercury · 02-26-2013, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Executives. Both you and GrantMercury have posted stats about the "overpaid" executives.
But those guys started somewhere (at the bottom). And through higher intelligence, sacrifice, work ethic, etc. SURPASSED the average worker grunt and EARNED their way up the ladder.

This is still the land of opportunity. And nobody is stopping people from working weekends, holidays, etc. for no pay just to move ahead in a company.

But only a very, very few ever do.
The rest just do their tasks and go home.

Nobody is saying a guy who moves boxes and crates around should get the same pay as the guy who started the company. That's ridiculous. But a company that can't afford to pay above poverty level wages is one that can't afford to do business.

You know, don't you, that YOUR tax dollars subsidize Walmart payroll? Because they're paid so little, Walmart employees rely heavily on food stamps and "free" health care clinics. Walmart appreciates your generosity. It's not like they can afford to shoulder those costs on their own.

GrantMercury · 02-26-2013, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Exactly. It's not the worker's credit on the line, their cash, life savings, or balls in the vice to start the company and get it to the point of becoming successful. They are the one's who took all of the risk, and captained the ship into financial wealth or profitability. Did the workers help? Sure. They were compensated with a pay check.

Additionally, most "workers" do not bother to see the TRUE COST of their employment. It is not in their McJob paycheck. But we'll play along in shadowboxing game.

Let's say a worker makes $500.00 a week. They get full health benefits. Depending on their age, that is another $100-300.00/month for them. Include their family, now we're up to $500.00+ provided by the employer as a value add benefit. Let's add in a few weeks of paid vacation and sick time. That's another grand a year based on two weeks of paid leave. How about that Xmas bonus? Oh and let's not forget matching taxes, disability, unemployment and all of the other fees that an employer has to pay or match for each person and pay to the state or federal government.

Once you get done adding all of that up, you see the TRUE COST to an employer is much higher than their messily paychecks the worker bees earn at their McJob manning the fry-o-lator.

Incredible. Any yet, despite it all, corporate profits have never been higher. It's like magic.

Robbie · 02-26-2013, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantMercury

You know, don't you, that YOUR tax dollars subsidize Walmart payroll? Because they're paid so little, Walmart employees rely heavily on food stamps and "free" health care clinics. Walmart appreciates your generosity. It's not like they can afford to shoulder those costs on their own.

Weird...I know a few people who work at Walmart. One of them is my daughter's boyfriend's mom.

None of the people I know who work there are on foodstamps.

But it makes a great story I suppose.

Let's force them to pay entry level employees a higher minimum wage! Then they will have to raise their prices and MILLIONS of people who depend on those low prices to get things they need to survive will be fucked.

Great thinking GrantMercury! No wonder you are such a big success!

tony286 · 02-26-2013, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Weird...I know a few people who work at Walmart. One of them is my daughter's boyfriend's mom.

None of the people I know who work there are on foodstamps.

But it makes a great story I suppose.

Let's force them to pay entry level employees a higher minimum wage! Then they will have to raise their prices and MILLIONS of people who depend on those low prices to get things they need to survive will be fucked.

Great thinking GrantMercury! No wonder you are such a big success!

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...ees-medicaid-/
"In Ohio, the state Department of Job and Family Services report found Wal-Mart to be the state?s top employer for workers and family members who receive Medicaid (16,098), food stamps (14,799) and cash assistance (803), according to January 2012 numbers. A state spokesman cautioned the report does not tell the difference between full- and part-time employees, or employees who do not yet qualify for benefits, or why employees sought Medicaid."

Now why isnt walmart called users? Good night for real now lol

PornoMonster · 02-26-2013, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantMercury

Nobody is saying a guy who moves boxes and crates around should get the same pay as the guy who started the company. That's ridiculous. But a company that can't afford to pay above poverty level wages is one that can't afford to do business.

You know, don't you, that YOUR tax dollars subsidize Walmart payroll? Because they're paid so little, Walmart employees rely heavily on food stamps and "free" health care clinics. Walmart appreciates your generosity. It's not like they can afford to shoulder those costs on their own.

This may be for some, but not all.
Most walmsrts start a little higher than min wage, and move you up quick.
There is also healthcare
401K
Profit sharing
and you get 5 or 10% discount on cheap shit already...

Robbie · 02-27-2013, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony286

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...ees-medicaid-/
"In Ohio, the state Department of Job and Family Services report found Wal-Mart to be the state’s top employer for workers and family members who receive Medicaid (16,098), food stamps (14,799) and cash assistance (803), according to January 2012 numbers. A state spokesman cautioned the report does not tell the difference between full- and part-time employees, or employees who do not yet qualify for benefits, or why employees sought Medicaid."

Now why isnt walmart called users? Good night for real now lol

Maybe Walmart aren't the "users".

For instance, in 1980 I was playing in Florida in my rock band. I was 18 years old (the drinking age wasn't 21 yet). I started dating an escort. And it was FUN! She had money and hot escort friends to have group sex with...it was awesome.

She averaged around $1,000 a day in CASH.

She was a divorced woman with a kid. And guess what? She got foodstamps every week!

She was making 6 figures a year in CASH (which in 1980 made you rich). But of course she didn't file income tax on any of that money. So to the govt. she was an unemployed single mother.

And she used those foodstamps to buy groceries every week. And so did a lot of her friends. (she even had her kid getting free school lunches)

I was shocked by that. I grew up being taught that getting foodstamps was shameful.

But I learned a lesson that the majority of people will ALWAYS game the system.

Back to the Walmart employees...If they are doing a good job and work there a few months they WILL get a raise. And secondly, Walmart has a grocery store in it. And they get employee discounts don't they?
If they are taking foodstamps, then I have to say they are gaming the system.

THEY are the "users", not the people who employ them to do a simple job that requires no skills or education.

PornoMonster · 02-27-2013, 10:16 AM

The number of people working jobs that paid the federal minimum wage dropped last year, according to new labor statistics published Wednesday.
An estimated 3.6 million people were paid hourly rates at or below the federal minimum in 2012, down from 3.8 million a year earlier.

Workers toiling at the $7.25 federal minimum wage or less tend to be young, female, single and lacking a high school diploma.
lacking a high school diploma.
lacking a high school diploma.
lacking a high school diploma.

http://money.cnn.com/2013/02/27/news...html?iid=HP_LN

sperbonzo · 02-27-2013, 10:57 AM

"Almost all full-time workers (99.4%) are earning more than the minimum wage, and almost all full-time hourly workers (98.3%) are earning more than the minimum wage. Most importantly, the fact that more than three out of four teenagers (77.2%), who are the least skilled and least educated group of workers, earned more than the minimum wage in 2011 would suggest the minimum wage is mostly an entry-level wage for beginning workers with no skills. The reality of the labor market is that even a large majority of previously unskilled teenage workers are earning more than the minimum wage as soon as they acquire minimal job skills and work habits, and can demonstrate their value to employers." -- Mark Perry

In a nutshell.

.

arock10 · 02-27-2013, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Maybe Walmart aren't the "users".

For instance, in 1980 I was playing in Florida in my rock band. I was 18 years old (the drinking age wasn't 21 yet). I started dating an escort. And it was FUN! She had money and hot escort friends to have group sex with...it was awesome.

She averaged around $1,000 a day in CASH.

She was a divorced woman with a kid. And guess what? She got foodstamps every week!

She was making 6 figures a year in CASH (which in 1980 made you rich). But of course she didn't file income tax on any of that money. So to the govt. she was an unemployed single mother.

And she used those foodstamps to buy groceries every week. And so did a lot of her friends. (she even had her kid getting free school lunches)

I was shocked by that. I grew up being taught that getting foodstamps was shameful.

But I learned a lesson that the majority of people will ALWAYS game the system.

Back to the Walmart employees...If they are doing a good job and work there a few months they WILL get a raise. And secondly, Walmart has a grocery store in it. And they get employee discounts don't they?
If they are taking foodstamps, then I have to say they are gaming the system.

THEY are the "users", not the people who employ them to do a simple job that requires no skills or education.

works great until the IRS finds out... she was breaking the law to get government assistance

epitome · 02-27-2013, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Weird...I know a few people who work at Walmart. One of them is my daughter's boyfriend's mom.

None of the people I know who work there are on foodstamps.

But it makes a great story I suppose.

Let's force them to pay entry level employees a higher minimum wage! Then they will have to raise their prices and MILLIONS of people who depend on those low prices to get things they need to survive will be fucked.

Great thinking GrantMercury! No wonder you are such a big success!

There is a big world out there and just because you don't know anyone personally doesn't mean it's not happening.

Robbie · 02-27-2013, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arock10

works great until the IRS finds out... she was breaking the law to get government assistance

The IRS never found out. Obviously if they had known she was a hooker they would have arrested her for that first. lol

There are LOTS of people who earn unclaimed income and make a great living and STILL take advantage of govt. provided medical services, food stamps, even welfare checks.

Not saying that all people receiving assistance do. I'm just saying that it happens a LOT.

And no...there are no correct statistics for that kind of thing. Most people never get caught so there is no way to have stats on it.

Robbie · 02-27-2013, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by epitome

There is a big world out there and just because you don't know anyone personally doesn't mean it's not happening.

That's true, and I didn't say that didn't mean it's not happening.

But I repeat: When you work at Walmart you are being paid to do unskilled labor that requires no education.
But if you do a good job and stay loyal there, you will get a raise in a few months. PLUS...you can buy the things you need AND your groceries with your employee discount.

No reason to go on foodstamps UNLESS you are an unwed mother with several children (you made some bad, bad life choices).

If I suddenly had no money and lost my home, etc. I could easily live off wages at Walmart and live in an extended stay hotel (with utilities and even one meal a day included) buy my clothing and food at Walmart with my employee discount.
On top of that, I would outwork anybody there and I'd be managing that place within the year.

I played in bands all over this country and made far LESS than people working at Walmart. But somehow I, all the guys in the band, the road crew, and the other 100 bands working the same circuit all survived and NEVER took one penny from the govt. to do so.

Minte · 02-27-2013, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PornoMonster

The number of people working jobs that paid the federal minimum wage dropped last year, according to new labor statistics published Wednesday.
An estimated 3.6 million people were paid hourly rates at or below the federal minimum in 2012, down from 3.8 million a year earlier.

Workers toiling at the $7.25 federal minimum wage or less tend to be young, female, single and lacking a high school diploma.
lacking a high school diploma.
lacking a high school diploma.
lacking a high school diploma.

http://money.cnn.com/2013/02/27/news...html?iid=HP_LN

We see that way to often. People apply for a job with NO high school diploma. From an employers point of view this is the first red flag. Almost always our HR manager won't go any further. A highschool education is free. And when a person declines to do the bare minimum of even graduating, why would we take a chance on them?

In fact we rarely do take a chance. Companies have to spend money on training. It's not free anymore. I have told more than one young man go back and at least get a GED. Show us that you are motivated to improve your life. Most mumble under their breath... eff off...

BFT3K · 02-27-2013, 01:49 PM

https://youtube.com/watch?v=gDgFiW2xtf0

GrantMercury · 02-27-2013, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Weird...I know a few people who work at Walmart. One of them is my daughter's boyfriend's mom.

None of the people I know who work there are on foodstamps.

But it makes a great story I suppose.

I agree. Especially since it's the truth.

http://www.google.com/url?q=http://l..._O0rr0XGvVVjcg

But don't let it bother you. It's very generous of you to give handouts to Walmart.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Let's force them to pay entry level employees a higher minimum wage! Then they will have to raise their prices and MILLIONS of people who depend on those low prices to get things they need to survive will be fucked.

I don't think you even believe this shit, but you don't know what else to say anymore.

How do you figure raising the minimum wage will result in an increase in goods and services that will somehow result in an increase in the costs of goods and services so significant that somehow the worker ends up worse off? That's Limbaugh's "dittohead" level stuff. Do you think 100% of the manufacturing cost of any given product is labor??? You're a successful business man? Really?

GrantMercury · 02-27-2013, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minte

We see that way to often. People apply for a job with NO high school diploma. From an employers point of view this is the first red flag. Almost always our HR manager won't go any further. A highschool education is free. And when a person declines to do the bare minimum of even graduating, why would we take a chance on them?

In fact we rarely do take a chance. Companies have to spend money on training. It's not free anymore. I have told more than one young man go back and at least get a GED. Show us that you are motivated to improve your life. Most mumble under their breath... eff off...

I think that's understandable. There are reasons people don't finish high school, and most of them are sad, but I can't blame an employer for being wary. Anyone who wants to get a GED can get one virtually free, and if they need tutoring that's probably available, too.

Robbie · 02-27-2013, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantMercury

How do you figure raising the minimum wage will result in an increase in goods and services that will somehow result in an increase in the costs of goods and services so significant that somehow the worker ends up worse off? That's Limbaugh's "dittohead" level stuff. Do you think 100% of the manufacturing cost of any given product is labor??? You're a successful business man? Really?

Because that's how economics and running a business work. Something that you are deliberately leaving out of your theories.

And yes...I'm a VERY successful businessman. Come to Vegas sometime (if you can afford to), I'll give you a tour of my home (that comes from the money I've made in this business from my hard work over the years) and take you out to a nice dinner and show you what you could possibly attain for yourself if you could just focus on working instead of waiting for govt. handouts.

GrantMercury · 02-27-2013, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sperbonzo

"Almost all full-time workers (99.4%) are earning more than the minimum wage, and almost all full-time hourly workers (98.3%) are earning more than the minimum wage. Most importantly, the fact that more than three out of four teenagers (77.2%), who are the least skilled and least educated group of workers, earned more than the minimum wage in 2011 would suggest the minimum wage is mostly an entry-level wage for beginning workers with no skills. The reality of the labor market is that even a large majority of previously unskilled teenage workers are earning more than the minimum wage as soon as they acquire minimal job skills and work habits, and can demonstrate their value to employers." -- Mark Perry

.

Where did neocon Mark Perry get his figures?

http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2011.htm

Robbie · 02-27-2013, 03:28 PM

GrantMercury...you truly are a character. lol

GrantMercury · 02-27-2013, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Because that's how economics and running a business work.

So you're going on record that labor is 100% of the cost of manufacturing?

Robbie · 02-27-2013, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantMercury

So you're going on record that labor is 100% of the cost of manufacturing?

No, but google will show you the stats. And labor costs (including benefits and matching govt. funds) are anywhere from 40% to 60% (the U.S. post office is on the high end of that) for a business.

But you wouldn't know that. lol

Here's something else you don't know...Restaurant and bar workers don't make the federal minimum wage either.
According to you, they would be "living in poverty" because that's how the govt.'s stats would show them.

REALITY: A good bartender can pull down $500 a night in tips, so can a hot girl who is a waitress. Those numbers don't get reflected on govt. stats. They only show what the bartenders and waiters and waitresses make on their paycheck.

Then throw in a few hundred thousand girls dancing in strip clubs around the country who get NO pay at all. It's 100% tips in cash.

I think that with millions of people who are servers (waitresses and bartenders) added with a few hundred thousand strippers...the govt.'s numbers are not correct.

Have you thought about that at all before you make all these big pronouncements? You don't seem to have much real life experience.

GrantMercury · 02-27-2013, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PornoMonster

This may be for some, but not all.
Most walmsrts start a little higher than min wage, and move you up quick.
There is also healthcare
401K
Profit sharing
and you get 5 or 10% discount on cheap shit already...

"Move you up quick" to where? How many middle management jobs do you think exist at any one time? Only a few can "move up quick" because of the limited number of positions.

And Walmart healthcare is a joke. So many of their employees get paid too little to be able to afford the sucky plans they're offered. That's ok. There's always taxpayer funded free clinics.

How many Walmart employees can spare a percentage to put into a 401k?

And they'll try to fuck the workers if they can get away with it. And I'm sure they typically do.

Walmart sued over temp workers hours
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505125_1...workers-hours/

And this is the richest corporation in the entire world. They can't do any better than that? The fucking greed is horrible.

GrantMercury · 02-27-2013, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

No, but google will show you the stats. And labor costs (including benefits and matching govt. funds) are anywhere from 40% to 60% (the U.S. post office is on the high end of that) for a business.

So admit you've been talking out of your worldly, business savvy ass every time you've suggested that raising the minimum wage results in a dollar-for-dollar increase in the prices of consumer goods.

Robbie · 02-27-2013, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantMercury

So admit you've been talking out of your worldly, business savvy ass every time you've suggested that raising the minimum wage results in a dollar-for-dollar increase in the prices of consumer goods.

No, I"m not talking out of my ass. Every dollar that is raised in the cost of goods will most certainly result in an increase in price of EVERYTHING.

You are just trolling GrantMercury. There is no way in hell that anybody could really be this dense.

Please do a business related topic. Please!

BFT3K · 02-27-2013, 04:42 PM

What is a "minimum wage" for?

If you believe it is the minimal wage a person can earn in order to survive, then the "minimum wage" is way too low, it should be raised, and it should go up at least at the rate of inflation.

If you believe it is just a number with an abstract value, then it is totally irrelevant.

No one person in the US, making minimum wage, can pay for rent, food, utility bills, transportation, and healthcare - let alone any additional needs or bills, so who is left paying for the balance?

How much does it cost per year, to house a person in our prison system? Maybe 5 times the amount a person who makes minimum wage makes in a year?

Go figure...

Robbie · 02-27-2013, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BFT3K

No one person in the US, making minimum wage, can pay for rent, food, utility bills, transportation, and healthcare - let alone any additional needs or bills, so who is left paying for the balance?

That's not true. I pointed out earlier that I played in bands professionally from 1978 until the 1990's and made FAR LESS than minimum wage at the end of the day.
I lived like a King.

Could do it right now too. But I wouldn't stay at minimum wage for long. I'd bust my ass and move up the ladder.

Barefootsies · 02-27-2013, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

You are just trolling GrantMercury. There is no way in hell that anybody could really be this dense.

Agreed.

This thread really has you thinking about the youth of today. From threads like this, the best I can figure the world is now set up as some sort of nanny state where there is little personal accountability or responsibility. It goes something like this....

Employer:
Is supposed to provide you a minimum wage that gives you MTV cribs standard of living.
Is supposed to provide you free/low cost health care.
Is supposed to provide you a few paid weeks vacation.
Is supposed to provide you unemployment/disability coverage.
Is supposed to provide you a 401k/IRA/retirement dollar matching plan or profit share.

What your employers does not provide falls on the government to take care of.....

Is supposed to provide you living expenses if you feel you're over qualified for a McJob.
Is supposed to provide you free higher education in an effort to get a job or career.
Is supposed to provide you a retirement fund in case you do not invest in your future.
Is supposed to provide you financial bail outs for your poor decisions in life like bad mortgage.

It leaves you to ponder this queston.... what is it exactly that is YOUR responsibility as an employee now-a-days?

It seems that the employer and government is supposed to do just about everything else other than wipe your ass for you compliments of the tax payer. In exchange for your few hours of labor that you get paid for, I see that the teder totter is lopsided in favor of the worker big time.

I'd hazard a guess that even at $8.00/hour that TRUE COST of that minimum wage employee is more like $12.00-15.00/hour expense to the employer once you are done adding in all of the employer matching, insurance, taxes, medicare, SS, and any benefits and premiums given as a value add.

PornoMonster · 02-27-2013, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantMercury

"Move you up quick" to where? How many middle management jobs do you think exist at any one time? Only a few can "move up quick" because of the limited number of positions.

And Walmart healthcare is a joke. So many of their employees get paid too little to be able to afford the sucky plans they're offered. That's ok. There's always taxpayer funded free clinics.

How many Walmart employees can spare a percentage to put into a 401k?

And they'll try to fuck the workers if they can get away with it. And I'm sure they typically do.

Walmart sued over temp workers hours
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505125_1...workers-hours/

And this is the richest corporation in the entire world. They can't do any better than that? The fucking greed is horrible.

Move you up in PAY... You don't have to have a New title to get a raise.....

PornoMonster · 02-27-2013, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantMercury

"Move you up quick" to where? How many middle management jobs do you think exist at any one time? Only a few can "move up quick" because of the limited number of positions.

And Walmart healthcare is a joke. So many of their employees get paid too little to be able to afford the sucky plans they're offered. That's ok. There's always taxpayer funded free clinics.

How many Walmart employees can spare a percentage to put into a 401k?

And they'll try to fuck the workers if they can get away with it. And I'm sure they typically do.

Walmart sued over temp workers hours
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505125_1...workers-hours/

And this is the richest corporation in the entire world. They can't do any better than that? The fucking greed is horrible.

Go to school get a Better JOB....
The insurance they offer is the same as Most places I know. Where are you from anyway? Do you know any real people or just stuff you read on the internet?
I think most insurance policies suck, but yeah most are about the same.

Then you go and say
Tax payer free funded Clinics,, HAHAH OBAMA care FTW -- cuz its only the rich paying for it right??

Hell put your Profit sharing in the 401K
I have been putting a % in my 401K since the days of min wage, and I have 3 children. It is called No Big screen TV, No Cigs, Tattoos, Alcohol, Use blankets instead of the heater, so on so on.....
But hey I was raised on a farm I know what it is to sacrifice and still feel like I am living, and not Living off someone...

Funny how the Gov puts signs up that says do not feed the animals, they will become dependent on the Food.... I live in a city now, I still converted half my backyard to a garden, had the city limit of 5 chickens, and on and on...

But hey what can I get for Free...

Companies have to make earnings for the Stock Holders..... Walmart is NOT going to raise pay unless it is good for them. Being forced to do this, they will raise prices, or cut a few employees. If you haven't noticed most of the workers stocking the shelvs are not moving to fast....

Gator · 02-27-2013, 10:31 PM

Companies and stock holders don't have to be so damn greedy, but that's what America is all about. He who dies with the most money wins. And fuck your neighbor.

GrantMercury · 02-28-2013, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

No, I"m not talking out of my ass. Every dollar that is raised in the cost of goods will most certainly result in an increase in price of EVERYTHING.

You can't do it. You can't admit you were talking shit.

Actually, I've come around to your school of thought. I think the working people need a higher quality of life, and therefore they should get a pay cut so they can live more cheaply. The relief they'll feel once they're making a few bucks less per hour. We can't do it fast enough. The working poor are desperate and need relief.

And God bless the GOP. This compassionate Republican wants to relieve the downtrodden of their burdensome overtime pay. Truly moving:

Eric Cantor Will Propose Federal Law That Ends Overtime Pay For All Hourly Workers
http://www.sodahead.com/united-state...+Overtime+Pay+

I bet these guys pay next to nothing for their fat spread. They must have a teabagger like Cantor on their side, keeping their pay fabulously low:

GrantMercury · 02-28-2013, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Agreed.

This thread really has you thinking about the youth of today. From threads like this, the best I can figure the world is now set up as some sort of nanny state where there is little personal accountability or responsibility. It goes something like this....

Employer:
Is supposed to provide you a minimum wage that gives you MTV cribs standard of living.
Is supposed to provide you free/low cost health care.
Is supposed to provide you a few paid weeks vacation.
Is supposed to provide you unemployment/disability coverage.
Is supposed to provide you a 401k/IRA/retirement dollar matching plan or profit share.

What your employers does not provide falls on the government to take care of.....

Is supposed to provide you living expenses if you feel you're over qualified for a McJob.
Is supposed to provide you free higher education in an effort to get a job or career.
Is supposed to provide you a retirement fund in case you do not invest in your future.
Is supposed to provide you financial bail outs for your poor decisions in life like bad mortgage.

It leaves you to ponder this queston.... what is it exactly that is YOUR responsibility as an employee now-a-days?

It seems that the employer and government is supposed to do just about everything else other than wipe your ass for you compliments of the tax payer. In exchange for your few hours of labor that you get paid for, I see that the teder totter is lopsided in favor of the worker big time.

I'd hazard a guess that even at $8.00/hour that TRUE COST of that minimum wage employee is more like $12.00-15.00/hour expense to the employer once you are done adding in all of the employer matching, insurance, taxes, medicare, SS, and any benefits and premiums given as a value add.

A living wage isn't the responsibility of the employer...and people shouldn't turn to the government for help. What's your answer?

PornoMonster · 02-28-2013, 03:46 PM

http://money.cnn.com/2013/02/28/smal...its/index.html

sperbonzo · 02-28-2013, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Agreed.

This thread really has you thinking about the youth of today. From threads like this, the best I can figure the world is now set up as some sort of nanny state where there is little personal accountability or responsibility. It goes something like this....

Employer:
Is supposed to provide you a minimum wage that gives you MTV cribs standard of living.
Is supposed to provide you free/low cost health care.
Is supposed to provide you a few paid weeks vacation.
Is supposed to provide you unemployment/disability coverage.
Is supposed to provide you a 401k/IRA/retirement dollar matching plan or profit share.

What your employers does not provide falls on the government to take care of.....

Is supposed to provide you living expenses if you feel you're over qualified for a McJob.
Is supposed to provide you free higher education in an effort to get a job or career.
Is supposed to provide you a retirement fund in case you do not invest in your future.
Is supposed to provide you financial bail outs for your poor decisions in life like bad mortgage.

It leaves you to ponder this queston.... what is it exactly that is YOUR responsibility as an employee now-a-days?

It seems that the employer and government is supposed to do just about everything else other than wipe your ass for you compliments of the tax payer. In exchange for your few hours of labor that you get paid for, I see that the teder totter is lopsided in favor of the worker big time.

I'd hazard a guess that even at $8.00/hour that TRUE COST of that minimum wage employee is more like $12.00-15.00/hour expense to the employer once you are done adding in all of the employer matching, insurance, taxes, medicare, SS, and any benefits and premiums given as a value add.

Minimum wage was NEVER meant to be a "living wage". It was meant to be a starting level for young people just getting into the work force. If we push it into the level of a "living wage", then people will be trapped there for their entire careers, and young people will never get any job experience since no one will hire them for the same wage that they have to pay everyone else. Right now less than 5% of people earn minimum wage, but as the union lobbies and the government push it higher, watch more and more people being stuck there, and more and more teenagers out of work.

I really feel horribly sad for the people on this thread that have been sold this idea that they are just victims, drifting along to the mercy of others that will control their fate, instead of being taught that their fate is in their own hands and that peaceful, voluntary interactions between adults is the best way to have both freedom and success....

.

Minte · 02-28-2013, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantMercury

You can't do it. You can't admit you were talking shit.

Actually, I've come around to your school of thought. I think the working people need a higher quality of life, and therefore they should get a pay cut so they can live more cheaply. The relief they'll feel once they're making a few bucks less per hour. We can't do it fast enough. The working poor are desperate and need relief.

And God bless the GOP. This compassionate Republican wants to relieve the downtrodden of their burdensome overtime pay. Truly moving:

Eric Cantor Will Propose Federal Law That Ends Overtime Pay For All Hourly Workers
http://www.sodahead.com/united-state...+Overtime+Pay+

I bet these guys pay next to nothing for their fat spread. They must have a teabagger like Cantor on their side, keeping their pay fabulously low:

You tend to forget that we live in a global economy. We compete with companies in Ningbo. You have this great eutopian vision on how things should be. The facts are that ship has sailed. Ningbo doesn't pay overtime. Ningbo doesn't pay their employees anywhere near our minimum wage. Ningbo also doesn't offer healthcare benefits.

You want your computers cheap..made in CHina, your Iphone,your television,the clothes you wear. Many of the parts in the cars you drive. All from China.

You want to go to a Walmart and save big money. Well,you saved it.

Welcome to the newage. It's not going to improve for that group at the bottom. No matter what Obama and his team want.

GrantMercury · 03-01-2013, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minte

You tend to forget that we live in a global economy. We compete with companies in Ningbo. You have this great eutopian vision on how things should be. The facts are that ship has sailed. Ningbo doesn't pay overtime. Ningbo doesn't pay their employees anywhere near our minimum wage. Ningbo also doesn't offer healthcare benefits.

You want your computers cheap..made in CHina, your Iphone,your television,the clothes you wear. Many of the parts in the cars you drive. All from China.

You want to go to a Walmart and save big money. Well,you saved it.

Welcome to the newage. It's not going to improve for that group at the bottom. No matter what Obama and his team want.

I hear you. I DON'T want to go to WalMart and buy cheap, slave-made garbage, and I never do. I buy local whenever I can, even if it costs a little bit more. I think it would be fucking great to buy a US-made iPhone, even if it cost a little more. It would give people decent jobs right here. I'd feel good about buying the latest gadget, and the people on the assembly line would have money to spend on my phonesex.

And sure, it's a global economy, but there's lots we can do to keep the race to the bottom from ruining our middle class. We can protect our markets. China does it. Lots of countries do. America? We give companies tax breaks to move operations overseas. True, there is tons of corporate money corrupting out political system, influencing this type of legislation, but the main reason it happens because people just don't pay attention. People don't take part. Most people can't even name their lawmakers. That, IMO, is the biggest problem facing this country.

How many hard working blue collar types know about this?

Quote:

Washington, D.C. ? The U.S. Senate today took up the Bring Jobs Home Act, but despite a majority of senators voting to provide incentives to companies that bring good jobs back to the U.S., the bill failed to get the 60-vote ?super majority? needed break a Republican filibuster and move the bill to the Senate floor. The final vote was 56-42.

The legislation, introduced by Senator Debbie Stabenow (D-MI) and cosponsored by Senators Durbin (D-IL), Whitehouse (D-RI) and Blumenthal (D-CT), would provide tax credits and help for business expenses for companies that move jobs back from overseas. This bill also closes a loophole that allowed companies to be eligible for U.S. tax breaks while offshoring good jobs.

http://www.cwa-union.org/news/entry/...d#.UG3bdk3A-So

GrantMercury · 03-01-2013, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sperbonzo

Minimum wage was NEVER meant to be a "living wage". It was meant to be a starting level for young people just getting into the work force. If we push it into the level of a "living wage", then people will be trapped there for their entire careers, and young people will never get any job experience since no one will hire them for the same wage that they have to pay everyone else. Right now less than 5% of people earn minimum wage, but as the union lobbies and the government push it higher, watch more and more people being stuck there, and more and more teenagers out of work.

The minimum is the bottom floor. It influences all wages - even the wages of those who earn more than the minimum.

Workers have been busting their ass. Productivity has risen significantly over the last few decades. Corporate profits have skyrocketed. It's time to bump the minimum up, so the WORKERS can finally partake of the pie, too. Not only would it be right, it would, as is the subject of the post, be good for business and the economy. This is a consumer driven economy, and the consumers don't have money to spend. There's a logjam, and it needs to be broken.

GrantMercury · 03-01-2013, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gator

Companies and stock holders don't have to be so damn greedy, but that's what America is all about. He who dies with the most money wins. And fuck your neighbor.

I'm afraid you're right. When all is said and done, that's the problem. The "haves" can go on endlessly arguing that there's all kinds of reasons why things need to be the way they are. Some will give you racist arguments. Others are more sophisticated and will get into drawn out, esoteric economics.

But really? They've got theirs. Everybody else can GFY.

It's a hard thing for anyone to admit to themselves, so you have to cut them some slack. Also, we all have a bit of that attitude in us, so one must be careful judging.

But we shouldn't give up. We all need to at least try to work toward a fairer, more peaceful world.

PR_Glen · 03-01-2013, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

I played in bands all over this country and made far LESS than people working at Walmart. But somehow I, all the guys in the band, the road crew, and the other 100 bands working the same circuit all survived and NEVER took one penny from the govt. to do so.

why haven't you written a auto-bio yet? I'd read it.. hehe

slapass · 03-01-2013, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantMercury

So admit you've been talking out of your worldly, business savvy ass every time you've suggested that raising the minimum wage results in a dollar-for-dollar increase in the prices of consumer goods.

You do understand that based on previous posts, this is a non issue. The free market is working and people make more then the minimum. Also labor is a world issue now, so if you raise our wages too high we will lose more labor to over seas.

Robbie · 03-01-2013, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PR_Glen

why haven't you written a auto-bio yet? I'd read it.. hehe

I swear to God, I think I've lived 10 lives already. lol

Lived everywhere, married 4 times, and I just keep recreating myself like a damn chameleon

Barefootsies · 03-01-2013, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Lived everywhere, married 4 times, and I just keep recreating myself like a damn chameleon

mrdoobiesmack · 03-01-2013, 05:57 PM

How could it be?

02-27-2013, 10:16 AM	#110
PornoMonster Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 2,257	The number of people working jobs that paid the federal minimum wage dropped last year, according to new labor statistics published Wednesday. An estimated 3.6 million people were paid hourly rates at or below the federal minimum in 2012, down from 3.8 million a year earlier. Workers toiling at the $7.25 federal minimum wage or less tend to be young, female, single and lacking a high school diploma. lacking a high school diploma. lacking a high school diploma. lacking a high school diploma. http://money.cnn.com/2013/02/27/news...html?iid=HP_LN __________________ $6 a Month 4 Blade Razors, 4 Cartridges, Includes shipping! Domains 4 Sale CashForVideos.com - Pussy.biz - FootPorn.com - SoloMovie.com - CollegeGirlCams.com - AmateurCamGirls.com - PR3 4 Letter Domain

02-27-2013, 10:57 AM	#111
sperbonzo I'd rather be on my boat. Industry Role: Join Date: May 2003 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 9,739	"Almost all full-time workers (99.4%) are earning more than the minimum wage, and almost all full-time hourly workers (98.3%) are earning more than the minimum wage. Most importantly, the fact that more than three out of four teenagers (77.2%), who are the least skilled and least educated group of workers, earned more than the minimum wage in 2011 would suggest the minimum wage is mostly an entry-level wage for beginning workers with no skills. The reality of the labor market is that even a large majority of previously unskilled teenage workers are earning more than the minimum wage as soon as they acquire minimal job skills and work habits, and can demonstrate their value to employers." -- Mark Perry In a nutshell. . __________________ Michael Sperber / Acella Financial LLC/ Online Payment Processing [email protected] / http://Acellafinancial.com/ ICQ 177961090 / Tel +1 909 NET BILL / Skype msperber

02-27-2013, 03:28 PM	#122
Robbie Leaner, Meaner, Faster Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vegas Posts: 20,845	GrantMercury...you truly are a character. lol __________________ -Robbie ClaudiaMarie.Com

02-27-2013, 04:42 PM	#128
BFT3K Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Narnia Posts: 10,764	What is a "minimum wage" for? If you believe it is the minimal wage a person can earn in order to survive, then the "minimum wage" is way too low, it should be raised, and it should go up at least at the rate of inflation. If you believe it is just a number with an abstract value, then it is totally irrelevant. No one person in the US, making minimum wage, can pay for rent, food, utility bills, transportation, and healthcare - let alone any additional needs or bills, so who is left paying for the balance? How much does it cost per year, to house a person in our prison system? Maybe 5 times the amount a person who makes minimum wage makes in a year? Go figure... Last edited by BFT3K; 02-27-2013 at 04:43 PM..

02-28-2013, 03:46 PM	#136
PornoMonster Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 2,257	http://money.cnn.com/2013/02/28/smal...its/index.html __________________ $6 a Month 4 Blade Razors, 4 Cartridges, Includes shipping! Domains 4 Sale CashForVideos.com - Pussy.biz - FootPorn.com - SoloMovie.com - CollegeGirlCams.com - AmateurCamGirls.com - PR3 4 Letter Domain

02-27-2013, 01:49 PM	#117
BFT3K Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Narnia Posts: 10,764	https://youtube.com/watch?v=gDgFiW2xtf0

02-27-2013, 10:31 PM	#133
Gator Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Don't live on GFY Posts: 1,119	Companies and stock holders don't have to be so damn greedy, but that's what America is all about. He who dies with the most money wins. And fuck your neighbor.

03-01-2013, 05:57 PM	#146
mrdoobiesmack Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: NY Posts: 58	How could it be?