Trained fighters, inside please......

[DWB]

What is the best method of training for defensive fighting?

Then what about offensive?

Or is there something that covers both well?

Thanks in advance.

[marketsmart]

Muay Thai... I'm surprised you dont train over there...

jiu jitsu is great for 1 on 1, but the worst place to be in a multiple opponent fight is on the ground...

[tony286]

9mm and an extra clip

[DWB]

Originally Posted by marketsmart

Muay Thai... I'm surprised you dont train over there...

Fuck all that. I'm not trying to Muay Thai someone. I see those guys train and I'd rather not bash my shins to pieces. Besides, I've seen plenty of Muay Thai guys over here get their asses handed to them in street fights.

[WarChild]

Deffensive fighting. I'd say Judo. If you can stay on your feet and throw attackers, you'll have a better chance with multiple opponents. Multiple trained opponents will still take you down, but for instance in the middle of a bar fight the ability to decisively remove opponents and remain on your feet is key.

Offensively, yeah Muay Thai.

One on one though, Jiu Jitsu is king.

[DWB]

Originally Posted by tony404

9mm and an extra clip

LOL

[EscortBiz]

Originally Posted by tony404

9mm and an extra clip

exactly

see when you fight hand to hand its all fun and games if you know for certain the guy your fighting dont have a knife or gun or someone in the area who will come to his rescue does

so your best bet on this planet is as follows

a) if you can just get the heck out of the situation all together

b) if its life or death then aim to kill, stab to kill, "he who fires first fires last"

remember the saying "id rather have 12 people judge me than 6 people carry me"

[DWB]

Originally Posted by WarChild

Deffensive fighting. I'd say Judo. If you can stay on your feet and throw attackers, you'll have a better chance with multiple opponents. Multiple trained opponents will still take you down, but for instance in the middle of a bar fight the ability to decisively remove opponents and remain on your feet is key.

Offensively, yeah Muay Thai.

One on one though, Jiu Jitsu is king.

Does Jiu Jitsu keep you standing or have you fighting on the ground?

[sperbonzo]

Originally Posted by tony404

9mm and an extra clip

Personally I'm always carrying a .45 with open nose combat ammo.... big slow slugs are the way to go.

[WarChild]

Originally Posted by EscortBiz

exactly

see when you fight hand to hand its all fun and games if you know for certain the guy your fighting dont have a knife or gun or someone in the area who will come to his rescue does

so your best bet on this planet is as follows

a) if you can just get the heck out of the situation all together

b) if its life or death then aim to kill, stab to kill, "he who fires first fires last"

remember the saying "id rather have 12 people judge me than 6 people carry me"

In most of the first World, you can't just carry guns around on your person. That's a USA and third world country thing.

[Jim_Gunn]

If you are talking about how to defend yourself when necessary in practical street fighting and bar fighting, as opposed to fighting in an organized way as an athletic competition you might look into one of the styles police and military train like Krav Maga rather than Muay Thai or jiu jitsu which are best for MMA.

[mikeyddddd]

Kick 'em in the nuts

and run real fast

[WarChild]

Originally Posted by DirtyWhiteBoy

Does Jiu Jitsu keep you standing or have you fighting on the ground?

Well Jiu Jitsu is about positional domination, but yes mostly it comes to fighting on the ground. You're not going to lay on your back and pull guard in a street fight, but rather look for a dominate top position (side control, mounted) and just ground and pound from that position. It comes from Judo though, and Judo its self although more focused on the standing aspect because it's a sport, contains many of the same ground elements.

Someone who is very good at Judo is _VERY_ difficult to take to the ground while still being a fairly profecient fighter on thr ground.

[WarChild]

Originally Posted by Jim_Gunn

If you are talking about how to defend yourself when necessary in practical street fighting and bar fighting, as opposed to fighting in an organized way as an athletic competition you might look into one of the styles police and military train like Krav Maga rather than Muay Thai or jiu jitsu which are best for MMA.

Krav Maga

They teach police and special forces over here basic Jiu Jitsu, not that Krav nonsense.

[DAMNMAN]

Originally Posted by Jim_Gunn

If you are talking about how to defend yourself when necessary in practical street fighting and bar fighting, as opposed to fighting in an organized way as an athletic competition you might look into one of the styles police and military train like Krav Maga rather than Muay Thai or jiu jitsu which are best for MMA.

Well Jim beat me to the punch >;-)) Krav Maga or a simular type of training using weapons at hand or violent deadly attacks/defense is the way to keep safer. Beside most of these systems allow for the cassual trainer to learn to defend themselves.

I take Brazilian JiuJitsu and love it, that said If I get into a fight with someone one the street I will poke their eye out, chicken cock them in the throat, break their fingers/wrists and break their collarbone in an instant with no remorse. If they get me on the ground they I have to use some new found skills on them.

My Oppinion: find a Krav Maga, Penchak Silat or Chinese boxing academy with WingChun and take the self defense course there first then go on to the next level.

Also, never get stuck thinking your system is the best, because it isn't. Doen't matter which one it is!!!!!!

[DAMNMAN]

Originally Posted by WarChild

Deffensive fighting. I'd say Judo. If you can stay on your feet and throw attackers, you'll have a better chance with multiple opponents. Multiple trained opponents will still take you down, but for instance in the middle of a bar fight the ability to decisively remove opponents and remain on your feet is key.

Offensively, yeah Muay Thai.

One on one though, Jiu Jitsu is king.

In this regard I think Aikido is top notch as well.

Staying on your feet I mean.......

[Sands]

+1 Krav Maga.

[DAMNMAN]

Originally Posted by DirtyWhiteBoy

Does Jiu Jitsu keep you standing or have you fighting on the ground?

On the ground is where the BJJ will get you every time. There is no substitute for BJJ.

[WarChild]

In all the years I've been training, which is a substantial number, one thing has been a universal truth.

I've trained with Wrestlers, Judokas, BJJ practioners, Boxers and Kick Boxers that I couldn't beat. They were all simply better fighters than me with different diciplines.

I've never trained one time with a Krab Maga practioner I couldn't beat, and easily too.

[DAMNMAN]

Originally Posted by WarChild

In all the years I've been training, which is a substantial number, one thing has been a universal truth.

I've trained with Wrestlers, Judokas, BJJ practioners, Boxers and Kick Boxers that I couldn't beat. They were all simply better fighters than me with different diciplines.

I've never trained one time with a Krab Maga practioner I couldn't beat, and easily too.

That's because they are weekend warriors over here and not in it for their lives as in Isreal. (No mind set for killing)

It's always the person not the system, it does help if the person got lucky and picked the right system for his body type and mind set right from the begining.

I highly recommend at least checking out what the other systems have to offer if one has the time.

[Vigilante]

Hm so looks like some of you know what they are talking about. So do any one of you think its worth starting to learn some technique even if you are already older than 20?

[JustDaveXxx]

BJJ is king. When i used to make a living teaching BJJ i would guarantee that they would be able to twist there friends up after 6 months of solid training.


As far as multiples, i tested that theory a few times.


I clinch with the shit talker, pull him on top of me into a quick armlock and snap it for real and fast. his friends dont jump in because they see him on top. But then when he starts screaming and crying, nobody wants to be next.



After i kick this crying guy off of me, i sit on my butt. Nobody will come down to my level and fight and nobody is fast enough to get behind you to hit u from behind. Nobody wants to go to the hospital after they see what can really be done to them if they step up. The key is fast and for real!!

This i used to teach to students at the Machado BJJ and i have been in the situation 5 times.


Im not gonna sit here and talk about how great i am, its not me its the martial art that deservers the credit. A person with 4 years could do the same as me side by side and you could not tell who is better, assuming the other guy isn't highly trained in BJJ.


who am I??? I am a Black belt Under Rigan Machado 17 years of serious training with a back ground in teaching the who is who in MMA that would sound like a lie.lol

[WarChild]

Originally Posted by DAMNMAN

That's because they are weekend warriors over here and not in it for their lives as in Isreal. (No mind set for killing)

It's always the person not the system, it does help if the person got lucky and picked the right system for his body type and mind set right from the begining.

I highly recommend at least checking out what the other systems have to offer if one has the time.

Yeah I have a real difficult time with the "mindset for killing".

It's always the same thing from Krav guys, and Kung Fu too for that matter, "well if this was a real fight I'd have killed you with (insert weapon, special attack, etc here)."

There's a reason you don't see Kung Fu or Krag Maga in professional MMA. Because one on one it's just not very effective.

[WarChild]

Originally Posted by Vigilante

Hm so looks like some of you know what they are talking about. So do any one of you think its worth starting to learn some technique even if you are already older than 20?

It's never, ever too late.

I started training when I was 18 but didn't start BJJ until I was 30.

[The Duck]

A telescopic baton, most will back of when you whip one of those out with confidence.

I dont care about fighting fair, because I never start fights. I just want to get out of them in one piece if they do occur.

[WarChild]

Originally Posted by kandah

A telescopic baton, most will back of when you whip one of those out with confidence.

I dont care about fighting fair, because I never start fights. I just want to get out of them in one piece if they do occur.

I'd bet any amount I could easily take a telescopic baton away from you and end up beating you with it.

[mynameisjim]

I don't know anything about these disciplines but from what I've seen and been involved in. Most street fights are just wild boxing matches for about 20 seconds or so.

I bet if you got some boxing training/sparring experience you could beat 95% of the average Joe's in a street fight.

Of course, those other disciplines are very useful. But I think the quickest and most profound results would just come from learning how to punch/dodge/block etc., like in boxing if you just want to be able to handle yourself in a street fight.

But that's just a guess. I don't train to fight or anything like that.

[germ]

Originally Posted by kandah

A telescopic baton, most will back of when you whip one of those out with confidence.

i love those things.

[WarChild]

Originally Posted by mynameisjim

I don't know anything about these disciplines but from what I've seen and been involved in. Most street fights are just wild boxing matches for about 20 seconds or so.

I bet if you got some boxing training/sparring experience you could beat 95% of the average Joe's in a street fight.

Of course, those other disciplines are very useful. But I think the quickest and most profound results would just come from learning how to punch/dodge/block etc., like in boxing if you just want to be able to handle yourself in a street fight.

But that's just a guess. I don't train to fight or anything like that.

That's actually pretty true.

Pretty much any disicipline that you've taken any time to train seriously in will give you the skills to put down an average untrained joe. Boxing is excellent because it's simple, it's trained live, and it trains you to take a punch as well as give one.

It's not until you end up in a problem with another trained fighter that the discipline its self becomes important.

In reality though, most of us who train don't get in to a lot of street fights. Most of that kind of energy gets left on the mats. Not to mention, I have more in common with guys that actually train than I do pretty much anyone else, so chances are I'm going to get along with another fighter, not fight him on the streets.

[DAMNMAN]

Originally Posted by Vigilante

Hm so looks like some of you know what they are talking about. So do any one of you think its worth starting to learn some technique even if you are already older than 20?

Check out my other thread..... I started Brazilian JiuJitsu at age 45 and just got my blue belt. So yes do it as soon as you can but just do it.

No offense to the taekwondo guys here but, please stay away from that one, if you try pulling taekwondo in a street fight you'll get you ass handed to you in a big way........(The masters of Taekwondo are fantastic, but they ain't gonna teach that stuff to you. They'll teach you some serious BULL SHIT for years 'till they think you're worthy or something.)

I ain't no bomb threat or anything, That said I had a black belt in Shaolin Gung fu when I was 17 and trained in Niesei GUJU Ryu for a short time (too strict fro me) and Sanuces Ryu JuJtisu under Grand master Moses Powell for a time as well. I took a style for 2 years that no-one round here's ever heard of HO CHI MO. My instructor was Cuban and he trained Fidel Castro's Elite body guards (for real) He tought me some unfucking nice things to do to someone..... Oh I forgot a year of Aikido and wrestling in high school. >;-))

Nuff Said!

[DAMNMAN]

Originally Posted by JustDaveXxx

BJJ is king. When i used to make a living teaching BJJ i would guarantee that they would be able to twist there friends up after 6 months of solid training.


As far as multiples, i tested that theory a few times.


I clinch with the shit talker, pull him on top of me into a quick armlock and snap it for real and fast. his friends dont jump in because they see him on top. But then when he starts screaming and crying, nobody wants to be next.



After i kick this crying guy off of me, i sit on my butt. Nobody will come down to my level and fight and nobody is fast enough to get behind you to hit u from behind. Nobody wants to go to the hospital after they see what can really be done to them if they step up. The key is fast and for real!!

This i used to teach to students at the Machado BJJ and i have been in the situation 5 times.


Im not gonna sit here and talk about how great i am, its not me its the martial art that deservers the credit. A person with 4 years could do the same as me side by side and you could not tell who is better, assuming the other guy isn't highly trained in BJJ.


who am I??? I am a Black belt Under Rigan Machado 17 years of serious training with a back ground in teaching the who is who in MMA that would sound like a lie.lol

A very sound strategy for BJJ >;-)) Good to meet you cuz........ People also don't realise that there are many self defense tactics in BJJ which they will never see unless the happen to be there when you take care of business. (strikes etc........)

Peace

[DAMNMAN]

Originally Posted by WarChild

I'd bet any amount I could easily take a telescopic baton away from you and end up beating you with it.

Just the fact that you pulled it out tells me that you proably need it and that if I needed to I could be smackin' your knee caps with it shortly.

BTW, I got the whole not starting it thing and am with you on that and the stick is a last resort defense, so I'm not raggin' you personally OK?

[DAMNMAN]

Originally Posted by WarChild

That's actually pretty true.

Pretty much any disicipline that you've taken any time to train seriously in will give you the skills to put down an average untrained joe. Boxing is excellent because it's simple, it's trained live, and it trains you to take a punch as well as give one.

It's not until you end up in a problem with another trained fighter that the discipline its self becomes important.

In reality though, most of us who train don't get in to a lot of street fights. Most of that kind of energy gets left on the mats. Not to mention, I have more in common with guys that actually train than I do pretty much anyone else, so chances are I'm going to get along with another fighter, not fight him on the streets.

DITTO etc.........

[dig420]

Originally Posted by DAMNMAN

Well Jim beat me to the punch >;-)) Krav Maga or a simular type of training using weapons at hand or violent deadly attacks/defense is the way to keep safer. Beside most of these systems allow for the cassual trainer to learn to defend themselves.

I take Brazilian JiuJitsu and love it, that said If I get into a fight with someone one the street I will poke their eye out, chicken cock them in the throat, break their fingers/wrists and break their collarbone in an instant with no remorse. If they get me on the ground they I have to use some new found skills on them.

My Oppinion: find a Krav Maga, Penchak Silat or Chinese boxing academy with WingChun and take the self defense course there first then go on to the next level.

Also, never get stuck thinking your system is the best, because it isn't. Doen't matter which one it is!!!!!!

I'm guessing you're a BJJ white belt. Come back in two years and see if you still think this.

Wing Chun doesn't work. At ALL. Period. Krav Maga is a made up art, a heinz 57 mix of every other art and it consists of anything and everything, including hitting someone with a baseball bat. In other words, it's a fantasy. Silat is good if you're going to stab someone I guess.

For streetfighting standing up, MT or Boxing. I disagree with Warchild, I don't think Judo is all that great, but it's better than nothing. For a 1 on 1 nothing comes close to BJJ.

[dig420]

Originally Posted by JustDaveXxx

BJJ is king. When i used to make a living teaching BJJ i would guarantee that they would be able to twist there friends up after 6 months of solid training.

As far as multiples, i tested that theory a few times.

I clinch with the shit talker, pull him on top of me into a quick armlock and snap it for real and fast. his friends dont jump in because they see him on top. But then when he starts screaming and crying, nobody wants to be next.

After i kick this crying guy off of me, i sit on my butt. Nobody will come down to my level and fight and nobody is fast enough to get behind you to hit u from behind. Nobody wants to go to the hospital after they see what can really be done to them if they step up. The key is fast and for real!!

This i used to teach to students at the Machado BJJ and i have been in the situation 5 times.

Im not gonna sit here and talk about how great i am, its not me its the martial art that deservers the credit. A person with 4 years could do the same as me side by side and you could not tell who is better, assuming the other guy isn't highly trained in BJJ.

who am I??? I am a Black belt Under Rigan Machado 17 years of serious training with a back ground in teaching the who is who in MMA that would sound like a lie.lol

If you ask a Gracie the infamous multiple attacker question, they say the exact same thing. If I take one down and break his arm, he's OUT of the fight. No getting back up and jumping in, and nobody else wants to get their arm broke after that. BJJ all the way baby!!

[Agent 488]

ten friends.

[Mr.Right - Banned For Life]

Dunken style kung foo.

[DAMNMAN]

Originally Posted by dig420

I'm guessing you're a BJJ white belt. Come back in two years and see if you still think this.

Wing Chun doesn't work. At ALL. Period. Krav Maga is a made up art, a heinz 57 mix of every other art and it consists of anything and everything, including hitting someone with a baseball bat. In other words, it's a fantasy. Silat is good if you're going to stab someone I guess.

For streetfighting standing up, MT or Boxing. I disagree with Warchild, I don't think Judo is all that great, but it's better than nothing. For a 1 on 1 nothing comes close to BJJ.

Well, I am a blue belt in BJJ and I am not too bad at it for 1 year+ training. I have trained many martial arts over the years and BJJ is tougher and more gruelling for sure.

Wing chun works if they get that first strike into you eyeball. finger jab to eyes be expectin' it. Krav is a style for people without style >;-) the basics can get the average Joe up running fast with applying themselve 5 days a week 2hr a day.

BJJ is awesome but it takes very much time on the matt. I will put this time in and I'll let you know if I change my mind later.

[dig420]

Originally Posted by DAMNMAN

Well, I am a blue belt in BJJ and I am not too bad at it for 1 year+ training. I have trained many martial arts over the years and BJJ is tougher and more gruelling for sure.

Wing chun works if they get that first strike into you eyeball. finger jab to eyes be expectin' it. Krav is a style for people without style >;-) the basics can get the average Joe up running fast with applying themselve 5 days a week 2hr a day.

BJJ is awesome but it takes very much time on the matt. I will put this time in and I'll let you know if I change my mind later.

Yeah I saw your other thread and I apologize for the disrespect, it's just the first time I've ever seen anyone who stuck with it long enough to get their blue still giving respect to Kung Fu lol ;) Once you've been doing it a couple more years I can pretty much guarantee you'll come around to my way of thinking.

[aico]

Kung Fu .

[Ryan St. Germain]

Originally Posted by DAMNMAN

In this regard I think Aikido is top notch as well.

Staying on your feet I mean.......

Aikido is great

[DAMNMAN]

Originally Posted by dig420

Yeah I saw your other thread and I apologize for the disrespect, it's just the first time I've ever seen anyone who stuck with it long enough to get their blue still giving respect to Kung Fu lol ;) Once you've been doing it a couple more years I can pretty much guarantee you'll come around to my way of thinking.

No disrespect taken, I am traing in BJJ an that's proof that I am a believer.

I have been around enough to know that there are no absolutes in martial arts or anywhere else, for that matter. It's tough to get an arm bar on a guy who is finger fucking your eye. (Is all I'm sayin')

[Vigilante]

When talking about Street Fights i am trhinking about that Kimbo Guy.. i donßt thing that he ever trained any technique and there are tons of vids out there of him beating fighters from every techniqe..

[dig420]

It's not as easy as it seems to finger fuck someone's eye or grab their throat, or give them a five finger death touch. In fact, it's damn near impossible when the adrenaline is flowing. Otherwise, Royce Gracie and every other MMA fighter would be blind by now

[dig420]

Originally Posted by Vigilante

When talking about Street Fights i am trhinking about that Kimbo Guy.. i donßt thing that he ever trained any technique and there are tons of vids out there of him beating fighters from every techniqe..

What happened to him when he went up against trained guys? Not to mention they wouldn't even ALLOW those guys to use BJJ against him?

[Ryan St. Germain]

It really depends on you, what sort of person you are, what your personal strengths and weaknesses are.

I don't really buy into the whole argument of which style is superior. I think it's more a matter of the person practicing the martial art that determines how effective it is. I've seen people from a million different styles, all with different outcomes.

If you study and aggressive style, but it's not in your nature to fight aggressively, you won't be as effective with it as someone who is naturally aggressive. If you us a defensive style, but you don't have the natural patience to wait for the right moment to act, you won't be effective.

I also think that as much as some styles would like to market themselves as being for everyone, it's only true in the beginning stages.

The style that I studied the longest required that I learn the philosophy and basics needed to earn the first tested rank of two other different styles, before I could teach. That was one of the most valuable lessons of my training, because different situations call for different reactions.

[Anthony]

Aikido sucks in a street fight. You don't train live, but with a training partner who falls for you.

It's very hard to take a Judo guy down who is intent on putting you down. Add in clothes in the real world, and you are getting your ass thrown. Judo is an awesome ALIVE martial art.

Boxing has 5 punches, and trains ALIVE. Most people can't even throw a jab right, it's all wild haymakers. A trained boxer will do well against your average joe.

Muay Thai is another great art, 8 weapons, and trains ALIVE.

BJJ is the premiere one on one martial art.

Kung Fu sucks balls. With the exception of San Shou.

TKD sucks balls more.

Krav Maga sucks more balls than TKD, since it only takes a 3 days certification for most Tae Kwon Do teachers to teach it.

Penjak Silat and all those other weird name martial arts suck ass too. All theory, no practical application.

If you aren't sparring hard 100 percent in class, it's not gonna work in the streets. Simple.

[Anthony]

I want those of you who think you can poke eyes out in a fight, or do some deadly pressure point bullshit.

Read up on Adrenal Dump.

forget all the fancy shit they're telling you

check this out
wellard paul: the secrets of street self defence

[DAMNMAN]

Originally Posted by Vigilante

When talking about Street Fights i am trhinking about that Kimbo Guy.. i donßt thing that he ever trained any technique and there are tons of vids out there of him beating fighters from every techniqe..

He got some serious mean goin' on for him at the genetic level dude. If you ain't got that you need to have someone teach you good fighting skills. Eventually skill overcomes all other things, except chance/luck etc.......
Slippy on a greasy floor etc... (You can of course minimise this by watching your surrondings like a hawn, but then you become boring.)