Citizenfour Movie - WHOA!

[Rob]

Watched it today and to say it freaked me out is an understatement. I highly recommend it. If you think people are being paranoid, watch how Snowden acts and HE KNOWS what's going on. Some bad shit brewing in this world, my friends. Hopefully you're all prepared for the worse.

[j3rkules]

Is it that documentary:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nd6qN167wKo

[klinton]

NO

Originally Posted by jerkules

Is it that documentary:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nd6qN167wKo

[klinton]

good movie indeed.
even better thing to do is reading leaks and using your inteligence and imagination to connect the "dots". even more scary and inspiring.
what do you mean "how snowden acts ?" - >> you mean when he puts his head under blanket while typing his password ? or ?... its normal behaviour when you suspect of being HIGHLY ;-) targeted....
btw. I like your avatar heh

Originally Posted by Rob

Watched it today and to say it freaked me out is an understatement. I highly recommend it. If you think people are being paranoid, watch how Snowden acts and HE KNOWS what's going on. Some bad shit brewing in this world, my friends. Hopefully you're all prepared for the worse.

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by Rob

Snowden acts and HE KNOWS what's going on.

And the there is a deserved reward waiting him for telling us what he knows... if he decides to get back home:

[klinton]

and i really wonder what kind of punishment would Russian Snowden get IF he would exist.
maybe something as simple as bulgarian umbrella or polon ?
anyway, its good to have multipolar world as thanks to that the guy like Snowden can still breath and some other people can publish his leaks and other people - read it, comprehend and discuss ;-)

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

And the there is a deserved reward waiting him for telling us what he knows... if he decides to get back home:

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by klinton

and i really wonder what kind of punishment would Russian Snowden get IF he would exist.

The article 275 of Criminal Code (Статья 275. Государственная измена) says that max punishment for a high treason is up to 20 years in prison (our laws are not that severe as you may think), but I don't think it will work in a case similar to Snowden's here. As far as we know, Snowden did not sell any US military secrets and made no damage to the US defense system (he simple had no access to that sort of information). The only thing he did, he has explained how the US government is spying on their own citizens using anti-constitutional methods. So in fact he haven't done any damage to his country.

Thus I doubt he can be considered as a State traitor here. A lot of people do the similar things in Russia. They publish technical details on internal spaying systems (e.g. COPM, COPM-2, DPI etc) and describe the methods our special services and police use to intercept the information. As far as I know nobody was sued for that so far. This sort of information is not a state secret here.

[klinton]

oh come on. we both know that after few years, when almost everyone would get on with his life, some bulgarian umbrella or polon would wait for him for such kind of leak (HUGE).
and being privax admin Snowden HAD access to a lot of interesting stuff, whole NSA infrastructure basically. the guys @ NSA are probably really angry at him, someone got really mad over there heh and still dont know what to do
anyway, I agree that he is not a traitor, rather someone like true patriot and international hero for human rights...but some of the documents that being leaked (like spying on other governments) in my opinion shouldnt be published if he really wanted to be 100 % clear.
but honestly maybe the recent wikileaks on spying on France and japan are not even from snowden's archive....
btw. calling Putin and asking him on live show if Russia is doing the same thing, was a ballsy thing to do. many people interpretet it by many ways(like he sold himself to Putin), but from what snowden was saying later - 'he just wanted to catch him (Putin) lying". heheh. guy with balls basically

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

The article 275 of Criminal Code (Статья 275. Государственная измена) says that max punishment for a high treason is up to 20 years in prison (our laws are not that severe as you may think), but I don't think it will work in a case similar to Snowden's here. As far as we know, Snowden did not sell any US military secrets and made no damage to the US defense system (he simple had no access to that sort of information). The only thing he did, he has explained how the US government is spying on their own citizens using anti-constitutional methods. So in fact he haven't done any damage to his country.

Thus I doubt he can be considered as a State traitor here. A lot of people do the similar things in Russia. They publish technical details on internal spaying systems (e.g. COPM, COPM-2, DPI etc) and describe the methods our special services and police use to intercept the information. As far as I know nobody was sued for that so far. This sort of information is not a state secret here.

[bronco67]

I have to admit, I had a better understanding of what he was trying to do after watching this movie. I'm still torn about the situation because as former military myself, I don't like traitors and think a lot of secrets need to be kept by the government...but damn this shit was kind of fucked up.

[klinton]

kind of sad that you needed movie to imagine/ understand all of that...but good that you finally got it ;]

Originally Posted by bronco67

I have to admit, I had a better understanding of what he was trying to do after watching this movie. I'm still torn about the situation because as former military myself, I don't like traitors and think a lot of secrets need to be kept by the government...but damn this shit was kind of fucked up.

[CaptainHowdy]

Originally Posted by Rob

[dyna mo]

if snowden is so honorable, he should return to the USA and honorably face his crimes in a court of law, not go seek asylum in an enemy country.

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by klinton

oh come on. we both know that after few years, when almost everyone would get on with his life, some bulgarian umbrella or polon would wait for him for such kind of leak (HUGE).

I have no idea what bulgarian umbrella and polon are (maybe some sort of national Polish entertainment). You can google for people sued for high treason in Russia (article 275 of Criminal Code). Only the real spies and traitors that were related to military secrets (e.g. VA-111 Shkval technology) were sentenced for real prison time and almost all of them were pardoned and exchanged to Russian spies caught overseas (Edmond Pope, Igor Sutyagin etc). Others just got released or serve some rather short prison times. Anyways, nobody of them was sentenced for disclosure of government spying methods (if you not believe me, I would suggest you to ask Google). СОРМ and СОРМ-2 systems are not secret. Both were launched according to a public decree of the former Russian president Boris Yeltsin.

[klinton]

oh come on !
you know what bulgarian umbrella and Polon-210 are.
you may even search for it in yandex.ru (and not google) as good patriot. the results are still there

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

I have no idea what bulgarian umbrella and polon are (maybe some sort of national Polish entertainment). You can google for people sued for high treason in Russia (article 275 of Criminal Code). Only the real spies and traitors that were related to military secrets (e.g. VA-111 Shkval technology) were sentenced for real prison time and almost all of them were pardoned and exchanged to Russian spies caught overseas (Edmond Pope, Igor Sutyagin etc). Others just got released or serve some rather short prison times. Anyways, nobody of them was sentenced for disclosure of government spying methods (if you not believe me, I would suggest you to ask Google). СОРМ and СОРМ-2 systems are not secret. Both were launched according to a public decree of the former Russian president Boris Yeltsin.

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by klinton

oh come on !

Come on what?

Polon-210 is a very expensive and rare chemical element. I've googled for "bulgarian umbrella". A cool device used by the USSR spies, but how does it relate to the modern Russia? Google for Oleg Kalugin. He is a real traitor who had an access to the sop secret military information here (I won't even compare him to those harmless kids like Snowden). As far as I know, he lives in the USA now. If he return to Russia, he will get 20 years in prison and that will be pretty fair. Don't you agree on that? So what have you wanted to say in your post above?

[darksoul]

if USA was a democracy he would do that, but in the current state he won't have a fair trial.

Originally Posted by dyna mo

if snowden is so honorable, he should return to the USA and honorably face his crimes in a court of law, not go seek asylum in an enemy country.

[SilentKnight]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

if snowden is so honorable, he should return to the USA and honorably face his crimes in a court of law, not go seek asylum in an enemy country.

Many don't believe he committed a crime - but instead tried to reveal the crimes committed against the American people by the NSA. Being charged with espionage or as a traitor is simply a reactionary and vengeful move orchestrated by the NSA.

I can't conceive how he'd get a fair trial on U.S. soil if he was returned. The deck would be stacked against him. It would be a kangaroo court surrounded by a media circus.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by darksoul

if USA was a democracy he would do that, but in the current state he won't have a fair trial.

Snowden would not do that, he is a coward.

1. regardless of what your opinion is, this country has had whistleblower protection laws

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whistl..._United_States

2. in the history of the USA, we've had dozens of whistleblowers, only 2 have received sentences. both for giving out classified intel during military action.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_whistleblowers

3. the whistleblowers at NSA that preceded Snowden had charges dropped (if they were even charged)/never did time, instead have recieved numerous accolades and rewards

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willia...gence_official)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Andrews_Drake


it appears we are more than fair to whistleblowers. Snowden is a coward.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by SilentKnight

Many don't believe he committed a crime - but instead tried to reveal the crimes committed against the American people by the NSA. Being charged with espionage or as a traitor is simply a reactionary and vengeful move orchestrated by the NSA.

I can't conceive how he'd get a fair trial on U.S. soil if he was returned. The deck would be stacked against him. It would be a kangaroo court surrounded by a media circus.

historically, not the case.

[SilentKnight]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

historically, not the case.

Well, there's no denyin' the NSA has a real hard-on for the guy.

Like...detaining and searchin' the private plane (despite the diplomatic immunity) of the head of state for another country thinking that Snowden was onboard?

The NSA knows Snowden had the goods on them - and it incensed them. What they're doing now just looks like vengeance...at least to me.

[klinton]

too late ! and they better be thankful that he is still loyal to them (kind of) and his country (thats for sure)

Originally Posted by SilentKnight

The NSA knows Snowden had the goods on them - and it incensed them. What they're doing now just looks like vengeance...at least to me.

[Vendot]

Originally Posted by SilentKnight

Many don't believe he committed a crime - but instead tried to reveal the crimes committed against the American people by the NSA. Being charged with espionage or as a traitor is simply a reactionary and vengeful move orchestrated by the NSA.

I can't conceive how he'd get a fair trial on U.S. soil if he was returned. The deck would be stacked against him. It would be a kangaroo court surrounded by a media circus.

The only cowards are those too scared to fight for their freedom. However, sadly it usually comes down more to ignorance or acquiescence rather than cowardice.

[directfiesta]

Originally Posted by Vendot

The only cowards are those too scared to fight for their freedom. However, sadly it usually comes down more to ignorance or acquiescence rather than cowardice.

In fact, he is the description of the term " Hero " ...

- He willingly jeopardized his confortable situation for no personnal gain, but for the whole community.
- He did not do it for personal fame , as seen in this documentary
- There was a real yjhreat to his freedom and life
- and like Trump said: he did not get caught ....

A traitor does it for money ( selling secrets ) with a foe country ( like selling to Israel ) .

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by SilentKnight

Well, there's no denyin' the NSA has a real hard-on for the guy.

Like...detaining and searchin' the private plane (despite the diplomatic immunity) of the head of state for another country thinking that Snowden was onboard?

The NSA knows Snowden had the goods on them - and it incensed them. What they're doing now just looks like vengeance...at least to me.

of course, hell Obama has a boner for the guy. nevertheless, he's been accused of serious crimes, it doesn't matter if the info he stole and released reveals government bullshit, he took the data and jumped ship to China and Russia, both are strategic enemies of this state, that's why entities are super pissed.

it's not like the end validates the means, it was still illegal. he's a coward.

[dyna mo]

bradley manning wasn't a traitor for money.

[directfiesta]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

bradley manning wasn't a traitor for money.

true ... in fact he is NOT a traitor , just a pain in the ass and an embaressement to the liars masquerading as the leaders of the " free " world

.. just like Assange .

[dyna mo]

manning was found guilty of violating the espionage act. that's modern day legal vernacular for traitor. point being he did not do it for money, just like many others did not. they did it for idealistic reasons.

[DAMNMAN]

Originally Posted by bronco67

I have to admit, I had a better understanding of what he was trying to do after watching this movie. I'm still torn about the situation because as former military myself, I don't like traitors and think a lot of secrets need to be kept by the government...but damn this shit was kind of fucked up.

Secrecy is a democracy killer!!!!!!!

[DAMNMAN]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

if snowden is so honorable, he should return to the USA and honorably face his crimes in a court of law, not go seek asylum in an enemy country.

There's a war on whistle blowers in this country. They wish to form a cone of silence over all of their misdeeds.

The evidence against him will not even be allowed in court and he will still hang. No fair shake to be had.

I really do not like the road the USA is on, I cherish what little freedom I've had and I see even that vanishing rapidly.

[dyna mo]

i live in America, there's no war on whistleblowers here.

[Slappin Fish]

Was this movie also shown at the $1 theater near your home?

[anexsia]

Originally Posted by Vendot

The only cowards are those too scared to fight for their freedom. However, sadly it usually comes down more to ignorance or acquiescence rather than cowardice.

Snowden is not fighting for anyone's freedom

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by anexsia

Snowden is not fighting for anyone's freedom

O'rly? So what exactly he is fighting for?

[Tom-LifeSelector]

Looks interesting, thanks for sharing

[Vendot]

Originally Posted by Tom-LifeSelector

Looks interesting, thanks for sharing

Very stylish, very minimalist and yet that Scottish accent at the end really makes this trailer special....... (for some odd reason).

[sigurman]

Originally Posted by anexsia

Snowden is not fighting for anyone's freedom

yes it is.

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by sigurman

yes it is.

He is fighting for a freedom of the US citizens and he is a real patriot of his Motherland. The government and secret services is not the same as people of your country. Idiots always confuse/associate the government with the country.

[mineistaken]

Originally Posted by SilentKnight

Many don't believe he committed a crime - but instead tried to reveal the crimes committed against the American people by the NSA.

American hero

[Nicholas FirstMobileCash]

Very much looking forward to this.

[Mutt]

I've always had the feeling that something is 'off' about him and his motivation, my needle hovers somewhere in the middle between do good whistle blower and traitor, a bit more towards traitor.

Just as the government has gone too far so did he, he's done more than just let the American people know about the massive domestic surveillance going on which he says was his real and only goal, he's also compromised the effectiveness of the spying on groups and countries we need to keep an eye on - as they do to us, the Chinese especially.

I don't buy that his life is in danger, the worst thing that could happen from an American point of view is Snowdon coming up dead. Nobody would believe that it wasn't orchestrated by the US government. Surprised Putin the old KGB spook hasn't thought about that, good way of making America look evil.

[freecartoonporn]

where can i get it ? no links in this thread ?

[lezinterracial]

Former US intelligence contractor Edward Snowden on Saturday criticised Russia -- the country that has granted him asylum -- calling its crackdown on human rights and online freedom "fundamentally wrong"

https://www.yahoo.com/tech/s/snowden...152433635.html

Lets see how this goes. Here is the full video. I'm gonna see what he really says.


at 18:34, He did go there.

[dyna mo]

that confirms why he snooped on the snoopers who paid him to snoop.



he's like islamic fundamentalist refugees in UK exclaiming sharia law on the infidels.

mutt stated it best.

[clickity click]

A real interesting watch for any person remotely interested in security and privacy.
Not like my wife who would give her entire browsing history, passwords and email conversations to Facebook if they asked for it.

[klinton]

not for the first time, he is doing that constantly since he got there...
just watch interviews with him :P

Originally Posted by lezinterracial

https://www.yahoo.com/tech/s/snowden...152433635.html

Lets see how this goes. Here is the full video. I'm gonna see what he really says.


at 18:34, He did go there.

[EngineCash]

This looks interesting... Definitely worth of watching...