The very obvious thing the Orlando shooting should tell us..

[crockett]

What is that?

It's the fact that the NSA mass spying is absolutely useless and will never stop a terrorist attack.

This guy raised every red flag possible, yet still all that invasion of our privacy and the mass spying failed to do anything at all. This case if any possible proves that the spying is useless when it comes to terrorism and can only be used after the fact the same way obtaining traditional court sanctioned warrants could do.

This guy was reported to the FBI at least 2 times maybe 3 times. One time when he attempted to bu body armor and wanted to buy a large amount of ammo.

He was also kicked out of prison guard training and they even referenced the Virginia tech shooter as having striking similarities.

His dad supported the Taliban for fucks sake, yet none of this was enough to be noticed by the NSA it seems..

Yet mark my words they will tell us over and over again how valuable the spying is to stopping terrorism and need more ability to spy.. To date, not a single terrorist attack has been stopped by domestic spying..

[Rochard]

I agree.

Anyone can pick up a firearm and go nuts. And no one will see it coming. And there is nothing we can do to protect anyone; There are just too many targets.

[Bladewire]

Mass shootings reinforce support for wars overseas.

They have "allegedly" stopped many terrorist attacks. Too high right now to SOURCE WTF am I here?

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Rochard

I agree.

Anyone can pick up a firearm and go nuts. And no one will see it coming. And there is nothing we can do to protect anyone; There are just too many targets.

So the answer is to do nothing.

The answer is to do more than they are doing now. So if Americans insist on their freedom to buy as many guns as they wish. Increase tax on guns and give it to the people charged with protecting you from gun nuts.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

So the answer is to do nothing.

The answer is to do more than they are doing now. So if Americans insist on their freedom to buy as many guns as they wish. Increase tax on guns and give it to the people charged with protecting you from gun nuts.

The answer is the spying and invasion of our privacy not to mention violation of our rights stops nothing and should be ended.

[mineistaken]

One more illogical argument by crockett.

Nobody is saying that NSA spying will prevent ALL attacks.

The FACT is that there were less attacks than it would have been without spying.

Spying is supposed to DECREASE the amount of attacks, not make the amount ZERO.

[Sly]

Why do we wear shoes?

To protect our feet.

How do we know our feet need protection if we're always wearing shoes?

[Joshua G]

crockett, on this matter, you & i agree.

its basically impossible to know when someone goes from mentally ill - but peaceful, & suddenly cracks. im certain the FBI had concerns, but short of putting someone in jail just because they are mentally ill?

on that basis you would be in jail in about 5 seconds.

[Sarn]

run crockett run

[ilnjscb]

100% agree - those incompetent wastrels and their ilk exist merely to enrich themselves

[Sarn]

[crockett]

Originally Posted by mineistaken

One more illogical argument by crockett.

Nobody is saying that NSA spying will prevent ALL attacks.

The FACT is that there were less attacks than it would have been without spying.

Spying is supposed to DECREASE the amount of attacks, not make the amount ZERO.

The NSA spying has not stopped a single attack.. They have been forced to publicly admit this fact

[Sarn]

[SilentKnight]

Originally Posted by crockett

What is that?

It's the fact that the NSA mass spying is absolutely useless and will never stop a terrorist attack.

This guy raised every red flag possible, yet still all that invasion of our privacy and the mass spying failed to do anything at all. This case if any possible proves that the spying is useless when it comes to terrorism and can only be used after the fact the same way obtaining traditional court sanctioned warrants could do.

This guy was reported to the FBI at least 2 times maybe 3 times. One time when he attempted to bu body armor and wanted to buy a large amount of ammo.

He was also kicked out of prison guard training and they even referenced the Virginia tech shooter as having striking similarities.

His dad supported the Taliban for fucks sake, yet none of this was enough to be noticed by the NSA it seems..

Yet mark my words they will tell us over and over again how valuable the spying is to stopping terrorism and need more ability to spy.. To date, not a single terrorist attack has been stopped by domestic spying..

[SilentKnight]

One of the truly unnerving things is even if you know someone who fits the profile of someone who might go postal and wipe out a group of people - and you notify police about your concerns...police won't do a damn thing about it.

[dyna mo]

If he raised every red flag possible, then the spying part worked. It's the lack of sensible gun legislation that allowed the terrorist to attack like he did.

[Bladewire]

Originally Posted by crockett

The NSA spying has not stopped a single attack.. They have been forced to publicly admit this fact

Links?

8char

[mikesouth]

Yu make a good point...Now ask yourself

Given what you just wrote do you REALLY think we are properly vetting the muslims coming into this country? Dont paint me a Trump supporter but Ray Charles could see a problem here....

[Deej]

Originally Posted by mikesouth

Yu make a good point...Now ask yourself

Given what you just wrote do you REALLY think we are properly vetting the muslims coming into this country? Dont paint me a Trump supporter but Ray Charles could see a problem here....

I read that he was born and raised in the us... Are you referring to his family before him?

[Hannes]

true, security nowadays means absolutely nothing anymore.

[mikesouth]

Originally Posted by Deej

I read that he was born and raised in the us... Are you referring to his family before him?

Pay attention would ya? It has nothing to do with the orlando shooter and everything to do with the governments inability to see these things coming

[crockett]

Originally Posted by mikesouth

Yu make a good point...Now ask yourself

Given what you just wrote do you REALLY think we are properly vetting the muslims coming into this country? Dont paint me a Trump supporter but Ray Charles could see a problem here....

Obviously there is a issue with a select group of Muslims just the same as there is a issue with a select group of home grown Christians..

However, how do you do anything about either and not violate our constitutional rights? It's a bad idea to start a trend of saying hey we don't like this group because of X reason so let's treat them different.

Doing that opens up the window to even greater discrimination which could easily spread.

Now on the other hand, I would have zero complaints of deporting people who show they have bad intentions.. Like his dad for instance who openly supports the Taliban.. His ass should be deported yesterday.

[Barry-xlovecam]

terrorists 1
freedom 0

[noshit]

Originally Posted by crockett

What is that?

It's the fact that the NSA mass spying is absolutely useless and will never stop a terrorist attack.

This guy raised every red flag possible, yet still all that invasion of our privacy and the mass spying failed to do anything at all. This case if any possible proves that the spying is useless when it comes to terrorism and can only be used after the fact the same way obtaining traditional court sanctioned warrants could do.

This guy was reported to the FBI at least 2 times maybe 3 times. One time when he attempted to bu body armor and wanted to buy a large amount of ammo.

He was also kicked out of prison guard training and they even referenced the Virginia tech shooter as having striking similarities.

His dad supported the Taliban for fucks sake, yet none of this was enough to be noticed by the NSA it seems..

Yet mark my words they will tell us over and over again how valuable the spying is to stopping terrorism and need more ability to spy.. To date, not a single terrorist attack has been stopped by domestic spying..

I can't believe it... somebody waking up

.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by noshit

I can't believe it... somebody waking up

.

I've always condemned the NSA spying.. you were just too busy calling me a liberal to notice.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by crockett

The answer is the spying and invasion of our privacy not to mention violation of our rights stops nothing and should be ended.

So if a policeman fails to catch a bank robber, should the police be disbanded?

The logical answer to this problem is to stop anyone ever suspected of being involved in crime. From buying guns. As I said it was the logical answer, so has no place in thegun debate.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

If he raised every red flag possible, then the spying part worked. It's the lack of sensible gun legislation that allowed the terrorist to attack like he did.

Stop being logical over the gun debate. It upsets those who insist on being illogical.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by mikesouth

Pay attention would ya? It has nothing to do with the orlando shooter and everything to do with the governments inability to see these things coming

This is the truth. Muslims hate Jews, Jews hate Muslims. It's a racial thing.

The US supports Israel while Israel steals land from Muslims. The US Government bombs Muslims.

As you say inability to see what's coming.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by crockett

Obviously there is a issue with a select group of Muslims just the same as there is a issue with a select group of home grown Christians..

However, how do you do anything about either and not violate our constitutional rights? It's a bad idea to start a trend of saying hey we don't like this group because of X reason so let's treat them different.

Doing that opens up the window to even greater discrimination which could easily spread.

Now on the other hand, I would have zero complaints of deporting people who show they have bad intentions.. Like his dad for instance who openly supports the Taliban.. His ass should be deported yesterday.

There's the problem. Without surveillance how do people charged with protecting you from crazies have any chance of winning?

Research how Americans supported McCarthy and his kangaroo courts. Or the oppression of people based on their colour.

The problem here is clear. This guy should never have been allowed to own a gun.

[sandman!]

I have 0 problems with the taliban should I be deported ? Lol

Fuck the bullshit media anti taliban bullshit your an idiot if you give a shit about the taliban

Originally Posted by crockett

Obviously there is a issue with a select group of Muslims just the same as there is a issue with a select group of home grown Christians..

However, how do you do anything about either and not violate our constitutional rights? It's a bad idea to start a trend of saying hey we don't like this group because of X reason so let's treat them different.

Doing that opens up the window to even greater discrimination which could easily spread.

Now on the other hand, I would have zero complaints of deporting people who show they have bad intentions.. Like his dad for instance who openly supports the Taliban.. His ass should be deported yesterday.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by sandman!

I have 0 problems with the taliban should I be deported ? Lol

Fuck the bullshit media anti taliban bullshit your an idiot if you give a shit about the taliban

Yea, I mean it's not like the guy's son shot 100 people for the same beliefs of the Taliban or other religious crack pots like them.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by mikesouth

Pay attention would ya? It has nothing to do with the orlando shooter and everything to do with the governments inability to see these things coming

he is the one paying attention. it has everything to do with the orlando terrorist. you seem to think homegrown terrorism takes a back seat to foreign terrorism. it doesn't.

heads up: a homegrown terrorist just committed the biggest terrorist attack on US since 9/11.

[Barry-xlovecam]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

...

heads up: a homegrown terrorist just committed the biggest terrorist attack on US since 9/11.

When an American Citizen -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omar_Mateen

Mateen was born Omar Mir Seddique[1] on November 16, 1986[10] in New Hyde Park, New York, to Afghan parents. His father, Mir Seddique Mateen, is a Pashtun[13] who emigrated in the 1980s and is an alleged supporter of the Taliban.

The Carter and Reagan administrations were allied with the Taliban Mujahideen as a component of the Cold War with the Soviets. So, we fucked ourselves -- didn't we?

We should just leave the ME -- so should the other governments of the world. We should ban weapons sales, period. Their way is fight until we all die -- it has been that way since day 1. Fuck the Messiah, Second Coming the Return of the Prophet -- it's all bullshit that leads to death You cannot ban religious belief for reason humans seem genetically predisposed to it. This is the reasonable alternative for sane and secular man.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

When an American Citizen -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omar_Mateen


The Carter and Reagan administrations were allied with the Taliban Mujahideen as a component of the Cold War with the Soviets. So, we fucked ourselves -- didn't we?

We should just leave the ME -- so should the other governments of the world. We should ban weapons sales, period. Their way is fight until we all die -- it has been that way since day 1. Fuck the Messiah, Second Coming the Return of the Prophet -- it's all bullshit that leads to death You cannot ban religious belief for reason humans seem genetically predisposed to it. This is the reasonable alternative for sane and secular man.

are you trying to suggest that south was right, the nsa system doesn't work because the orlando terrorist's parents were allowed to come to America?

but no, we didn't f ourselves.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

When an American Citizen -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omar_Mateen


The Carter and Reagan administrations were allied with the Taliban Mujahideen as a component of the Cold War with the Soviets. So, we fucked ourselves -- didn't we?

We should just leave the ME -- so should the other governments of the world. We should ban weapons sales, period. Their way is fight until we all die -- it has been that way since day 1. Fuck the Messiah, Second Coming the Return of the Prophet -- it's all bullshit that leads to death You cannot ban religious belief for reason humans seem genetically predisposed to it. This is the reasonable alternative for sane and secular man.

We won't leave the ME until there isn't a a drop of oil left . Us being there stops another Nazi Germany from coming to power.

It's the reason no other milItaly in the world can match ours because we control the oil. You can't have a massive war machine with out oil and with out the ME oil no one else can fuel one.

[Barry-xlovecam]

You want to trade blood for oil Crockett?

We could have replaced oil a long time ago. We didn't to support the oil economy.
The USA is heading the right way from oil dependence -- away.

Europe and Asia are fucked -- but Russia could help out and benefit economically. There are always alternatives if you want them bad enough.

I have no illusions of the "beating of swords into plowshares." Did you notice how Putin got the fuck out of Syria as soon as that baby was decapitated in Russia? Maybe, he saw the futility of getting too involved in the local disputes. We are not capitalizing on this to promote our own well being.

I guess we (government policy) want to continue trading blood for oil ...

[mikesouth]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

he is the one paying attention. it has everything to do with the orlando terrorist. you seem to think homegrown terrorism takes a back seat to foreign terrorism. it doesn't.

heads up: a homegrown terrorist just committed the biggest terrorist attack on US since 9/11.

OK lemme try this again
If the NSA cant see this coming from Mateen after all the evidence they had that he had issues how do you expect them to properly vet thousands or even hundreds of muslims coming into this country

Is that more clear?

[mikesouth]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

are you trying to suggest that south was right, the nsa system doesn't work because the orlando terrorist's parents were allowed to come to America?

but no, we didn't f ourselves.

I never said a word about mateens parents my comment wasnt about Mateen HELLO m pay attention it was about the NSA inability to identify Mateen as a problem even though they had a lot of evidence pointing to him as a problem and how given that you cant expect them to be able to properly vet the immigrants coming in NOW who might be terrorists jesus guys....

[Barry-xlovecam]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

are you trying to suggest that south was right, the nsa system doesn't work because the orlando terrorist's parents were allowed to come to America?

but no, we didn't f ourselves.

We have fucked ourselves over and over in the ME just like the Roman and British Empires did. Only the locals Nebuchadnezzar, Darius and the Mohammedan Ottomans had any successes.

This is the same as Vietnam -- the French and Americans were driven out. Vietnam worked out OK but there is new conflict with the Chinese and the Vietnamese. Let them work it out -- we can move our factories to India or Africa if it gets messy.

Let the UN bicker over the world's problems. We don't have to be total isolationists but we need to look out after our own best interests. We can attempt true diplomatic relations with the world but not try to manipulate less powerful nations internal affairs. We do not have to really -- we can totally immolate them if need be There is no need to coerce. Mutual respect is a much better foreign policy. Not banning immigration after being the cause of migration.

Maybe, if America didn't try to fuck with the world so much the world would not fuck back

Maybe, I have moved my position away from bully tactics -- we see they don't work and pay with our blood. It's not like we can't turn the whole ME into a glass parking lot -- we should be smart enough not to put ourselves into the position to want to.

We (the US) is cutting off its own nose to spite its own face -- utterly stupid.

[mikesouth]

After reading this thread I am begining to see the real problem and that is people twisting the truth and even flat out lying in order to make it fit their agenda. I never said a damn thing to imply that mateens parents shouldnt have been allowed to come here, NOTHING. Seems with all the various agendas the facts just get ignored, forgotten or twisted until they are no longer facts

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

We have fucked ourselves over and over in the ME just like the Roman and British Empires did. Only the locals Nebuchadnezzar, Darius and the Mohammedan Ottomans had any successes.

This is the same as Vietnam -- the French and Americans were driven out. Vietnam worked out OK but there is new conflict with the Chinese and the Vietnamese. Let them work it out -- we can move our factories to India or Africa if it gets messy.

Let the UN bicker over the world's problems. We don't have to be total isolationists but we need to look out after our own best interests. We can attempt true diplomatic relations with the world but not try to manipulate less powerful nations internal affairs. We do not have to really -- we can totally immolate them if need be There is no need to coerce. Mutual respect is a much better foreign policy. Not banning immigration after being the cause of migration.

Maybe, if America didn't try to fuck with the world so much the world would not fuck back

Maybe, I have moved my position away from bully tactics -- we see they don't work and pay with our blood. It's not like we can't turn the whole ME into a glass parking lot -- we should be smart enough not to put ourselves into the position to want to.

We (the US) is cutting off it's own nose to spite it's face -- utterly stupid.

we didn't make the rules and we didn't start the shit. shit's been going on there long before we were USA and was perpetuated by others after we became the USA. isolationism is a pipe dream, thanks internet.

[Barry-xlovecam]

You are looking at the trees and not seeing the forest Mike.

The NSA would not have to defend this threat if it wasn't there. We (US Foreign Policy) are our own worst enemies.

[dyna mo]

the entire western civilization is in the isis crosshairs, i.e. ALL foreign policy is flawed, according to me terrorists.

USA didn't invent the game, in fact, we were late to the party, this shit's been going on long before usa failed foreign policy.

[Barry-xlovecam]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

we didn't make the rules and we didn't start the shit. shit's been going on there long before we were USA and was perpetuated by others after we became the USA. isolationism is a pipe dream, thanks internet.

The ME is saying Fuck the USA -- you want to go to war -- pick up a gun and fight.

I say leave them to their own way. If the comparants find a compromise fine if they kill each other to the last man standing -- OK they died I didn't.

That is not isolationism. That is non-intervention.

[Barry-xlovecam]

I don't need to paint a target on my back and cry about the result -- thank you

Walk tall and carry a big stick -- we can always use tactical nuclear weapons if attacked -- we always have that option available. we should just take out Raqqa as an example and walk away maybe -- check your move.

If The Islamic Terrorist State backs off the USA we can leave it to the locals. If they don't we nuke them again -- that's playing hardball.

[dyna mo]

the me is saying fuck the USA while selling US their oil. we're not forcing them to do that. your logic would be better applied to the me, since you seem to think the problem is that they have a problem with US, then they can simply stop selling US their oil. They can simply stop buying military jets from USA. they can simply stop watching our television shows. they can simply stop wearing levis. they can simply stop buying 1000 boeing jets. etc et al. on and on.

[Barry-xlovecam]

Cash makes no enemies; they can buy any item with no military use.
We can buy their oil; they just can not buy items with a military use with the proceeds.

If the ME peoples/nations want to scrap and salvage their own assets to make bullets and weapons to kill each other -- let them -- no loss to US or Western nations' lives.

Their choice.

[Brian8377]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

So the answer is to do nothing.

.

Rochard gets burned by Paul HAHA. Step up your game Rochard. Even Paul can put you down without trying now.