PaySites Have To Change Before It's Too Late. Here Are Some Ideas...

[Shap]

In another thread I said the following. ?Pay sites haven?t changed in the past 5 years and if they don?t change soon they?ll be dead in the next 5 years.?

That statement wasn?t well received by Paysite owners. So I thought I?d start this thread as a conversation of what needs to be done for Paysites to stop the slow death path I believe they are on.

Nothing in this high tech fast moving world can survive without change. Every industry is under attack from tech. If your business is ?tech? and you haven?t changed in the past 5, 10, 15 years. Guess what? You are FUCKED! Adult Subscription Sites are in the tech space and in the last 15 years have made little to no progress to the way they operate, to the offerings they have and to the overall business model. This has to change. There has to be a massive shift in mindset and an investment in the future or you'll be living in the past.

To find the solution we have to first look at the problem and the obstacles.
#1 Tube sites get the job done as well if not better than paysites. I think it's safe to say 75% of paysites are worse than PornHub and 100% of Paysites have less variety than PornHub.

#2 The primary source of making money is at risk. What is the one secret weapon that has made all of us the majority of our money? RECURRING BILLING!!! After talking with a number of paysites recently the one thing I've noticed that has massively changed is Rebills are down. It makes sense. Most adult companies made the bulk of their money on rebills that would probably not have happened if they had to be done manually. The new generation of potential buyers have grown up on free porn and are very savvy. They won't be rebilling like our first generation of online porn buyers.

I don't have the answer to what is needed. But I know continuing down the current path is going to lead everyone off a cliff. It will work and work and work until it doesn't and then it's going to be a problem.

There is one big thing going for everyone and that is there are more people than ever before consuming porn. This isn't going to go away. From what I've read younger generations are heavy users and some prefer their relationship with porn over that with a real person. That is only going to continue and they will look to push the boundaries even more.

There is a formula that is going to have to be put in place to succeed. Here are some of the parts of the formula that I think will need to be incorporated.

- Billing. You can't rely on Rebills. The mindset has to change. It may require a completely new way of billing and charging for content. One that gets surfers in the front door slowly and then hits them up harder and harder as they stay on. Create the addiction and then make money off that addiction. Making money on the first hit isn't the answer. String them along, feed the addiction and they'll be there.

- Content. You can't have an off day. Every update has to be SPECTACULAR! I mean no bullshit. You have to be delivering what your members want or they will leave. PornHub is always a click away and pornhub can satisfy whatever mood they have. So you better be damn sure when they choose you that you deliver.

- Interaction. We had comments, voting, and a board (community) on Twistys. It was huge. People like to feel like their thoughts matter, their wishes count and they like to talk about it. Most members are silent (but read) and a small group are vocal. Caring and talking to the vocal ones shows the silent members what you are all about and come renewal or rejoin that may factor in. Twistys was a general site. If you own a niche site this is even more important. Ie Tranny site. You have to have a board because there is A LOT of shit on these guys minds that they need to talk about. One of the things cam girls get paid for is to listen. The big whales aren?t necessarily asking girls to shove a bat up their ass they just want the girl to listen to them. We are a lonely society craving to be ?liked?.

- Collaboration. Youtube is the best example of how to collaborate to grow. The biggest youtubers help each other grow. The biggest and smallest adult sites try to tear each other down. We are all in this together. If paysites don't get together and work on a plan together then they won't succeed. Tubes have too much content and more importantly TOO MUCH VARIETY! Today I feel like Jenna Jameson on Twistys but tomorrow I may want to watch some bondage. I'm not going to join two sites because tubes provide both for me. Paysites have to come up with a solution to this. I think they have to collaborate more with content produced and also content displayed. Collaboration doesn?t have to start and end between pay sites. Could go beyond that to dating or cam sites as well.

That is a start. Let?s create a list of ideas here. Please add your thoughts, comments, suggestions. I am confident this could be the type of thread where every paysite owner (big or small) will get something positive from it and hopefully have a brighter future because of it.

[pimpmaster9000]

how to beat a cheating player?...you cheat yourself or you quit...no amount of strategy or hard work will pay off unless the field is level...

[Shap]

Originally Posted by crucifissio

how to beat a cheating player?...you cheat yourself or you quit...no amount of strategy or hard work will pay off unless the field is level...

That mindset has to change. How are they cheating? Here they are 10 years later still going strong. Nobody has brought them down. To still whine and moan about them cheating is like banging your head on the wall as the solution. It doesn't work.

Is YouTube cheating as well?

The playing field will never be what you consider to be level.

[pornguy]

Originally Posted by crucifissio

how to beat a cheating player?...you cheat yourself or you quit...no amount of strategy or hard work will pay off unless the field is level...

Level the field.

[Shap]

Originally Posted by pornguy

Level the field.

Awesome post

[Bladewire]

"PornHub is always a click away and pornhub can satisfy whatever mood they have." ...for free with content stolen from paysites. (Not just pornhub, all illegal tubes obviously. Pornhub has gotten better)

That is why so many sites have died, stolen content on tubes. You were part of that and made millions while site owners like me paid DMCA companies hundreds a month to play wackamole with tubes. I've also paid tens of thousands in attornies fees.

Pay channel apps are making a killing (HBO, Showtime, etc). People are happy to pay for what they want. People pay pornhub to become premium members. People pay for porn.

If you want a serious discussion make action bullet points. So far I read:

1) Work with other content owners to diversify content variety

2) Commenting system for subscribers

3) Change billing but you don't know how.

4) Change something to evolve but you don't know what.

Maybe those of us not destroyed by tubes & still in business since '99 have a lot we do that we don't share. Wanna know why? Because tube owners will implement our strategies. Fuck that

[Major Tom Thanks Duke]

Originally Posted by Bladewire

"PornHub is always a click away and pornhub can satisfy whatever mood they have." ...for free with content stolen from paysites. (Not just pornhub, all illegal tubes obviously. Pornhub has gotten better)

That is why so many sites have died, stolen content on tubes. You were part of that and made millions while site owners like me paid DMCA companies hundreds a month to play wackamole with tubes. I've also paid tens of thousands in attornies fees.

Pay channel apps are making a killing (HBO, Showtime, etc). People are happy to pay for what they want. People pay pornhub to become premium members. People pay for porn.

If you want a serious discussion make action bullet points. So far I read:

1) Work with other content owners to diversify content variety

2) Commenting system for subscribers

3) Change billing but you don't know how.

4) Change something to evolve but you don't know what.

Maybe those of us not destroyed by tubes & still in business since '99 have a lot we do that we don't share. Wanna know why? Because tube owners will implement our strategies. Fuck that

This pretty much sums it up

[Barry-xlovecam]

So why isn't there a successful porn pay channel like Netflix?
I have said this many times -- I have -0- interest in pre-recorded porn (other that legal issues that may effect me).
I have never made a dime off of the ''rebill model.'' However, I have made a lot of money off satisfied sex cam customers' repeat sales.

Content is king and alway will be -- if you cannot sell what people want profitably you are out of business in short time. Content is being commoditized for many reasons and in many areas. Corn and flour are commoditized but they are still sold at a profit.

Adapt or die.

[j3rkules]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

Content is king and alway will be -- if you cannot sell what people want profitably you are out of business in short time. Content is being commoditized for many reasons and in many areas. Corn and flour are commoditized but they are still sold at a profit.

Adapt or die.

Well said.

[ruff]

Originally Posted by Bladewire

"PornHub is always a click away and pornhub can satisfy whatever mood they have." ...for free with content stolen from paysites. (Not just pornhub, all illegal tubes obviously. Pornhub has gotten better)

That is why so many sites have died, stolen content on tubes. You were part of that and made millions while site owners like me paid DMCA companies hundreds a month to play wackamole with tubes. I've also paid tens of thousands in attornies fees.

Pay channel apps are making a killing (HBO, Showtime, etc). People are happy to pay for what they want. People pay pornhub to become premium members. People pay for porn.

If you want a serious discussion make action bullet points. So far I read:

1) Work with other content owners to diversify content variety

2) Commenting system for subscribers

3) Change billing but you don't know how.

4) Change something to evolve but you don't know what.

Maybe those of us not destroyed by tubes & still in business since '99 have a lot we do that we don't share. Wanna know why? Because tube owners will implement our strategies. Fuck that

That's right on. Shap I appreciate your threads, but why don't you show us a "from scratch" project with pictures and arrows and a description. I don't mean to offend, but talk is cheap. You made bank before tubes, odds are, you could not duplicate your success again.

[MaDalton]

i disagree on the recurring billing - i still pay for Netflix even though they raised the price for me and at the same time implemented VPN detection so that i am now stuck with their inferior offer for CZ (compared to US)

but their unique content like OITNB etc. is still good enough for me to keep paying - also because $9.99 per month doesn't kill me. At $29.99 per month or so i would reconsider (unless they give me access to all content again - fucking geo licensing has to die someday but thats a different topic)

[Paul Markham]

"Content. You can't have an off day. Every update has to be SPECTACULAR!"

When you find that SPECTACULAR porn scene. Be sure to let everyone know. Because it's almost impossible unless the producer has money to burn.

Recorded porn is the same as it was in 1980 and the introduction of the VCR. Private had some awesome content, flew people to Bali to shoot movies. How many sites today can afford to shoot SPECTACULAR porn?

Still no matter how SPECTACULAR it is, it will be on Pornhub or Pirate Bay the day after it's released.

https://gfy.com/21014152-post82.html

This is the only option there is and will be a tough job to get it right. All other options are closed. Those who want to shoot me down, do it with a new option. The rest just keep working hard and making money.

[DVTimes]

A few thoughts from me:

1. Stop relying on affiliates

Affiliates are leaving porn sites. Mainly as they know sales are reducing. Thus sites that rely 100% on affiliate sales will struggle.

2. Billing

Many join, download everything in an hour, then leave. Some will even try to get a refund.

3. Content.

These days many do content for free. XHamster is full of people posting home made sex pics and films. Some do a better job than the pay sites. So quality is a must.

Location too.

4. Interaction.

Solo girl sites have an advantage. The girls can chat on webcam, post to twitter and make youtube vids (and so on).

While if done by a website owner, it can often be dull and just look like spam/promotion for his site. And as such interest is far less.

5. Collaboration.

One thing sits should do is get the models they shoot to promote the site they shot for. Many models can have 1000'sk of followers on twitter and so on. A post or two from the model could get enough sales that it covers the cost of her shoot. Thus making it worthwhile to keep shooting her.

However, the bottom line is the question:

Why would I join your site?

In truth I have not seen many I would want to look at the members area for free, nor pay to join.

Often I can find the model or site content on tube sites (that the site owner themselves uploaded) which is enough to cure any interest I may have in that site.
In truth many see no value in website membership.

One thought too is how modern computers make money. Many give the game away for free (such as phone apps), but make money by having people buy stuff in the game.
Many free webcam sites offer such a system. The webcam is free, but members are encouraged, first to join for free (so they can say hi), then to buy tips.

If I was to set up a site today

If I was to set up a pay site today, I would first want a HUGE budget of cash.

With this I would hire professional camera people. Basically I would have a setup that would be no different to a Hollywood film company.

Then I would shoot stunning content.

But I would probably shoot a full Hollywood type film. With a story and so on. Or failing that a TV show. The non nude version put on youtube for free and thus make people want to join the site for the sexy version.

The problem I see today is NOT just tubes, but the fact TV firms now are doing basically porn. BUT on a much larger scale, bigger budgets, well knows actresses and so on.

In other words you have the option to join such as Netflix for all this plus more, or for the same price join some low budget site with films that are low budget and rather forgettable. I think I would rather pay to watch Netflix to be honest.

[ironwebmaster]

To be honest, people are already doing things about this..

Check out Follow your favorite pornstars | STIFFIA. Most of you here probably already know it but may have forgotten about it. Manicamoney runs it. On stiffia , you'll find content from a nice variety of paysites, and each one is considered a channel. Users can signup to every paysite on stiffia which means the problem with variety is fixed.

It truly is a great concept, and even for a webmaster as myself, who knows the industry quite a bit, it was damn tempting to join, especially considering they take paypal, which frankly, is awesome :D

Anyway, this is an example of how one company, brings together lots of paysites so users can find everything in one place. Let me know what you think, I really like the idea.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

Content is king and alway will be -- if you cannot sell what people want profitably you are out of business in short time. Content is being commoditized for many reasons and in many areas. Corn and flour are commoditized but they are still sold at a profit.

Adapt or die.

You're singing my song.

The problem is Tubes have all the pre-recorded porn people need. There isn't a paysite that beats Tubes. The recorded porn boom times are done.

Live porn in whatever way it's performed is all that's left and for that to be successful it has to be top notch.

[DVTimes]

One thing to consider is Sex Factor: Porn Reality Show Episodes, TV Series of Explicit Contest

They are doing it for free.

How they make money I am not sure.

[pimpmaster9000]

youtube search "full movies" = 67,5 million results

fucks given by youtube= 0

[Colmike9]

From Grandma's Boy:
"You can't whack it to Internet porn like everyone else?"
"You know I don't have a credit card."

Why can't more people be like that? And if there are people like that, how do I target them?..

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by Shap

#1 Tube sites get the job done as well if not better than paysites. I think it's safe to say 75% of paysites are worse than PornHub and 100% of Paysites have less variety than PornHub.

This is completely unfair - Tube sites do not have to produce the content. Tube sites have more variety because they either take everyone's content or paysites give them their content. The most difficult part about creating a paysite / affiliate program is producing content, and that's not even an issue for Tube sites.

Originally Posted by Shap

#2 The primary source of making money is at risk. What is the one secret weapon that has made all of us the majority of our money? RECURRING BILLING!!! After talking with a number of paysites recently the one thing I've noticed that has massively changed is Rebills are down. It makes sense. Most adult companies made the bulk of their money on rebills that would probably not have happened if they had to be done manually. The new generation of potential buyers have grown up on free porn and are very savvy. They won't be rebilling like our first generation of online porn buyers.

The answer you might be looking for is what I call "information". Our industry used to be based on traffic - You send a paysite traffic and you get sign ups. Now it's about information - you want the customer's verified email address so you can sell them your site and then sell them everything else under the sun.

I run YNOT Mail and also work in the dating industry. One of the things some of my dating affilaites have started doing is collecting the information themselves. Why send a surfer to a dating site and walk away from them when you can collect their information, send them to a dating site... And then two weeks later send them to a different dating site, and then a different dating site, and so on...

It shouldn't be any different with pay sites. If you have a big boob site, once you have their email address, you know what their average retention is.... When they hit that point send them to another site - maybe in your own program, or in another program. And then every two - three weeks mail them another site. This should be AUTOMATIC - When someone signs up for your site or even just your email list, you send to them every week or every other week.

All of the program owners should get together and do this too - When a customer signs up for program "A" they should get an email two weeks later sending them to program "B". Program "B" does the same. Add in ten programs and you are all making money. If someone doesn't convert with one program, they will eventually convert with another program.

[wehateporn]

Enjoyed reading, nice work Shap!!

[The Porn Nerd]

Originally Posted by Rochard

This is completely unfair - Tube sites do not have to produce the content. Tube sites have more variety because they either take everyone's content or paysites give them their content. The most difficult part about creating a paysite / affiliate program is producing content, and that's not even an issue for Tube sites.



The answer you might be looking for is what I call "information". Our industry used to be based on traffic - You send a paysite traffic and you get sign ups. Now it's about information - you want the customer's verified email address so you can sell them your site and then sell them everything else under the sun.

I run YNOT Mail and also work in the dating industry. One of the things some of my dating affilaites have started doing is collecting the information themselves. Why send a surfer to a dating site and walk away from them when you can collect their information, send them to a dating site... And then two weeks later send them to a different dating site, and then a different dating site, and so on...

It shouldn't be any different with pay sites. If you have a big boob site, once you have their email address, you know what their average retention is.... When they hit that point send them to another site - maybe in your own program, or in another program. And then every two - three weeks mail them another site. This should be AUTOMATIC - When someone signs up for your site or even just your email list, you send to them every week or every other week.

All of the program owners should get together and do this too - When a customer signs up for program "A" they should get an email two weeks later sending them to program "B". Program "B" does the same. Add in ten programs and you are all making money. If someone doesn't convert with one program, they will eventually convert with another program.

I need some help formatting my emails with YNOT. Maybe we can chat next week and I can get some help on spam filters and formatting?

[The Porn Nerd]

There are some great ideas in this thread but still I come to the conclusion that everything has been tried, or is being done now. Barring any new technology the job now, I feel, is marketing. HOW are you going to sell Memberships?

So today I think, in 2016, paysites need to play up these points on their Tours and point of purchase:

* Convenience. Why go anywhere else? Inside you will see more porn than you can watch in a lifetime. (Have limited content or niche content? Add feeds with vast libraries of all kinds of porn.)

* Safety. No viruses, no worms, no nasty bits of code that will fuck up your computer or phone.

* Privacy. Do you really want to be surfing around on public PORN sites in this age of identity theft, credit card hacks and social media blackmail? Stay here, we protect your privacy.

* Respect. Didn't your mama teach you it's not right to take something for free? Support your local pornographer or he will go out of business. (Sounds hokey but it works.)

* Technology. As you and your devices change so will we. We will always deliver to you what you want, how you want it and in a way that's easiest for you to enjoy. (Make sure your shit looks good on all devices.)

* Health. Ease your mind, relieve yourself of the stress of always searching, searching to satisfy your needs. Come here and feel happy again!

Shit like that. See what I mean? Selling ice to eskimos (marketing).

Lastly, instead of trying to squeeze 10% more out of the cow just get yourself some more cows.

[Barry-xlovecam]

Maybe, The Internet of Things will save you -- The Internet reactive Bluetooth Pocket Pussy -- will your videos interact?

Sell the sizzle and not the steak

[ravenazrael]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

You're singing my song.

The problem is Tubes have all the pre-recorded porn people need. There isn't a paysite that beats Tubes. The recorded porn boom times are done.

Live porn in whatever way it's performed is all that's left and for that to be successful it has to be top notch.

Doesn`t Blacked.com beat them?

[ravenazrael]

Originally Posted by DVTimes

One thing to consider is Sex Factor: Porn Reality Show Episodes, TV Series of Explicit Contest

They are doing it for free.

How they make money I am not sure.

Ads on those videos. Probably they have a deal where they get a % of the pop ups etc

[Roald]

Originally Posted by ravenazrael

Ads on those videos. Probably they have a deal where they get a % of the pop ups etc

I'd say it's a marketing thingy where they eat the cost and try to make people stick to their site etc.

We did it with FreeOnes at the consumer shows back in the days, big booths which would cost a small fortune but was completely focused on the branding and making people aware of us.

[C H R I S]

Originally Posted by ravenazrael

Ads on those videos. Probably they have a deal where they get a % of the pop ups etc

Sex Factor is owned by a tube... they can produce it at a loss. It's all pr value.

[Jigster715]

Originally Posted by Bladewire

"PornHub is always a click away and pornhub can satisfy whatever mood they have." ...for free with content stolen from paysites. (Not just pornhub, all illegal tubes obviously. Pornhub has gotten better)

That is why so many sites have died, stolen content on tubes. You were part of that and made millions while site owners like me paid DMCA companies hundreds a month to play wackamole with tubes. I've also paid tens of thousands in attornies fees.

Pay channel apps are making a killing (HBO, Showtime, etc). People are happy to pay for what they want. People pay pornhub to become premium members. People pay for porn.

If you want a serious discussion make action bullet points. So far I read:

1) Work with other content owners to diversify content variety

2) Commenting system for subscribers

3) Change billing but you don't know how.

4) Change something to evolve but you don't know what.

Maybe those of us not destroyed by tubes & still in business since '99 have a lot we do that we don't share. Wanna know why? Because tube owners will implement our strategies. Fuck that

21 Thumbs Up. - I almost always get the feeling that Shaps threads are just about that. A fishing trip for MG and buddies.

[Jigster715]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

So why isn't there a successful porn pay channel like Netflix?
I have said this many times -- I have -0- interest in pre-recorded porn (other that legal issues that may effect me).
I have never made a dime off of the ''rebill model.'' However, I have made a lot of money off satisfied sex cam customers' repeat sales.

Content is king and alway will be -- if you cannot sell what people want profitably you are out of business in short time. Content is being commoditized for many reasons and in many areas. Corn and flour are commoditized but they are still sold at a profit.

Adapt or die.

As usual, excellent post.

[Konda]

Anyone can download or stream any hollywood movie for free, yet hollywood movies still make millions of dollars.

Same with TV shows, yet paid streaming services like NetFlix have millions of paying subscribers.

It is no different in porn. You can get anything you want for free, but still people spend millions on paysites.

The thing is that all the money now goes to the big boys, so the 'affiliates' and small programs see business is dying because they stopped making money, but there are more people watching porn than ever. You just have to know how to convert them to paying users. Big companies, media buyers and traffic networks took over from affiliates. The money is still there, it just goes to different people than it did 10 years ago where an affiliate could make a gallery and make money. Times change, get with the program.

[Goethe]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

because $9.99 per month doesn't kill me. At $29.99 per month or so i would reconsider

This is the key. Most people (myself included) will have an idea of how much they want to spend each month. $9.99 is a throwaway sum and if you're getting something you want i.e. Netflix then all the better.

The missus has Netflix and has just signed up for a free trial of Stan (Aussie pay TV). In the meantime, we've dumped the cable TV company we had, which was something like $50 or $60 per month because it was just the same old shit repeated - barring Sports. The call was made and the dinosaur was binned for a monthly saving and better choice of more modern TV and movies which we can watch whenever we want.

Unless you have a strong interest in something these days, $30 is probably too much. How much is PornHub Premium? $9.99 per month I think. I'd be happier to pay that and have a far wider choice than I'd have with something that costs 2 or 3 times as much and offers a much smaller choice.

The future model for porn is probably smaller sites producing and licensing content to the likes of the PornHub Premium model.

How many competitors does Netflix realistically have? How many do you think PornHub Premium will have?

[johnnyloadproductions]

Originally Posted by Konda

The thing is that all the money now goes to the big boys, so the 'affiliates' and small programs see business is dying because they stopped making money, but there are more people watching porn than ever. You just have to know how to convert them to paying users. Big companies, media buyers and traffic networks took over from affiliates. The money is still there, it just goes to different people than it did 10 years ago where an affiliate could make a gallery and make money. Times change, get with the program.

I've always wondered who you were, a lot of your knowledge goes deep on a lot of things.

[fuzebox]

I gotta say myporn.com is pretty modern and refreshing. I don't know if it'll be the magic bullet yet, but it's definitely nice to see a new approach built from the ground up.

[celandina]

Originally Posted by DVTimes

If I was to set up a site today

If I was to set up a pay site today, I would first want a HUGE budget of cash.

With this I would hire professional camera people. Basically I would have a setup that would be no different to a Hollywood film company.

Then I would shoot stunning content.

But I would probably shoot a full Hollywood type film. With a story and so on. Or failing that a TV show. The non nude version put on youtube for free and thus make people want to join the site for the sexy version.

.

Some of us have done it years ago and doing well with it today. The only difference is, we sell ALL individually ( per movie) NOT as a membership site.

[Jigster715]

Originally Posted by Konda

Anyone can download or stream any hollywood movie for free, yet hollywood movies still make millions of dollars.

Same with TV shows, yet paid streaming services like NetFlix have millions of paying subscribers.

It is no different in porn. You can get anything you want for free, but still people spend millions on paysites.

The thing is that all the money now goes to the big boys, so the 'affiliates' and small programs see business is dying because they stopped making money, but there are more people watching porn than ever. You just have to know how to convert them to paying users. Big companies, media buyers and traffic networks took over from affiliates. The money is still there, it just goes to different people than it did 10 years ago where an affiliate could make a gallery and make money. Times change, get with the program.

Like joining a paysite, downloading some videos and uploading to your program?

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd

There are some great ideas in this thread but still I come to the conclusion that everything has been tried, or is being done now. Barring any new technology the job now, I feel, is marketing. HOW are you going to sell Memberships?

So today I think, in 2016, paysites need to play up these points on their Tours and point of purchase:

* Convenience. Why go anywhere else? Inside you will see more porn than you can watch in a lifetime. (Have limited content or niche content? Add feeds with vast libraries of all kinds of porn.)

* Safety. No viruses, no worms, no nasty bits of code that will fuck up your computer or phone.

* Privacy. Do you really want to be surfing around on public PORN sites in this age of identity theft, credit card hacks and social media blackmail? Stay here, we protect your privacy.

* Respect. Didn't your mama teach you it's not right to take something for free? Support your local pornographer or he will go out of business. (Sounds hokey but it works.)

* Technology. As you and your devices change so will we. We will always deliver to you what you want, how you want it and in a way that's easiest for you to enjoy. (Make sure your shit looks good on all devices.)

* Health. Ease your mind, relieve yourself of the stress of always searching, searching to satisfy your needs. Come here and feel happy again!

Shit like that. See what I mean? Selling ice to eskimos (marketing).

Lastly, instead of trying to squeeze 10% more out of the cow just get yourself some more cows.

This deserves a Facepalm pic. Because it illustrates how out of touch the industry is with the consumer. Major Tubes beat paysites on every point listed. Which is why for most people who need a quick jerk off they go to a tube and don't even bother clicking on an advert and most certainly don't buy any other form of porn.

All the marketing in the World isn't going to re-invigorate DVDs or Paysites. All you can do is work hard at slinging traffic at yesterday's model and hope some will buy. Around 1-1,000s who see the promo.

Getting more cows, requires more grass to get more milk. So not a solution.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Konda

Anyone can download or stream any hollywood movie for free, yet hollywood movies still make millions of dollars.

Same with TV shows, yet paid streaming services like NetFlix have millions of paying subscribers.

It is no different in porn. You can get anything you want for free, but still people spend millions on paysites.

The thing is that all the money now goes to the big boys, so the 'affiliates' and small programs see business is dying because they stopped making money, but there are more people watching porn than ever. You just have to know how to convert them to paying users. Big companies, media buyers and traffic networks took over from affiliates. The money is still there, it just goes to different people than it did 10 years ago where an affiliate could make a gallery and make money. Times change, get with the program.

People watch a Hollywood movie or TV Show to be entertained. They consume porn to jerk off. They're 100% different to porn.

Yes, a few dominate the industry and they will be the last ones standing. The problem is they don't know how to convert people from free to paying if they did they would convert 1-100s, not 1-10,000s. They throw traffic and hope some will stick.

There is still some money to be made, but nowhere near the money that used to be made.

You are right times have changed and people need to get with the program. And that's not recorded porn paysites. They have run their course, just like porn mags and DVDs.

[Paul Markham]

Prediction, please bookmark it.

By 2020 there will be a few major paysite companies left and a few micro-niche ones run by devotees of that niche. The rest will be gone of hanging on by their fingernails. Most rightly predicted the demise of offline porn and I'm saying the same for online recorded porn.

Webcams will be dominated by girls who can market themselves and talk to the customer in his own language. There is an opening for companies to do that under one roof, providing cheap billing, a screening portal, and software. Plus some help in marketing. The problem for the studio system is it's easy for a girl to market herself and find customers direct, including those who will spend big bucks, than it is for affiliates to throw traffic at studio sites. A woman can sell herself to men looking for a woman, far better than men who have no clue who he is selling.

Dating will be dominated by the Big Boys. Those who can afford professional marketing teams with budgets that allow them to have proper marketing campaigns.

So plan for a future, while squeezing all that's left out of the business, that won't be kind for the little guy working on his own throwing traffic at pornsites ad hoping someone will buy.

[Konda]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

People watch a Hollywood movie or TV Show to be entertained. They consume porn to jerk off. They're 100% different to porn.

Yes, a few dominate the industry and they will be the last ones standing. The problem is they don't know how to convert people from free to paying if they did they would convert 1-100s, not 1-10,000s. They throw traffic and hope some will stick.

There is still some money to be made, but nowhere near the money that used to be made.

You are right times have changed and people need to get with the program. And that's not recorded porn paysites. They have run their course, just like porn mags and DVDs.

It doesn't matter ratios changed from 1:300 to 1:3000, there is also 10x as much traffic than there was back then, so you can still get the same sales.

Also it is still possible to get 1:300 ratios these days, even from tube traffic, it just depends on which zones, keywords, geos, etc. you buy.

[johnnyloadproductions]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

So plan for a future, while squeezing all that's left out of the business, that won't be kind for the little guy working on his own throwing traffic at pornsites ad hoping someone will buy.

No matter what happens, Paul, you have to get to 50k posts.

A red handle needs to be your sole focus now! Above all else.

[Major Tom Thanks Duke]

Originally Posted by ruff

That's right on. Shap I appreciate your threads, but why don't you show us a "from scratch" project with pictures and arrows and a description. I don't mean to offend, but talk is cheap. You made bank before tubes, odds are, you could not duplicate your success again.

I agree. It's also obvious that these posts are more about him fishing for ideas in a round about way disguised under the auspices of helping others.

[JasonCollins]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

Adapt or die.

Couldn't agree more!

[astronaut x]

Originally Posted by Shap

Is YouTube cheating as well?

Um... yea?

[astronaut x]

Originally Posted by Bladewire

"PornHub is always a click away and pornhub can satisfy whatever mood they have." ...for free with content stolen from paysites. (Not just pornhub, all illegal tubes obviously. Pornhub has gotten better)

That is why so many sites have died, stolen content on tubes. You were part of that and made millions while site owners like me paid DMCA companies hundreds a month to play wackamole with tubes. I've also paid tens of thousands in attornies fees.

Pay channel apps are making a killing (HBO, Showtime, etc). People are happy to pay for what they want. People pay pornhub to become premium members. People pay for porn.

If you want a serious discussion make action bullet points. So far I read:

1) Work with other content owners to diversify content variety

2) Commenting system for subscribers

3) Change billing but you don't know how.

4) Change something to evolve but you don't know what.

Maybe those of us not destroyed by tubes & still in business since '99 have a lot we do that we don't share. Wanna know why? Because tube owners will implement our strategies. Fuck that

What you said.

[The Porn Nerd]

Again I ask: if paysites are dead why do people and companies keep launching them every single week? Hmmm? No one wants to address that basic question. LOL

I started in 2009 (when everyone said i was crazy to even try, the adult business was a "race to zero") with 3 paysites, now I have 87. My first six months in this business I made a total of $800. Today I make a nice six figure income. How did I DO that? Magic join links? No, hard work.

HOW we market paysites need to change. Paysites need to partner up (and not just on cross-sells), creating 'virtual networks' so small sites can compete with giants like Pornhub. Join MY paysite and get access to 100 others. This is what I am doing and many should be following this model. Either create the sites yourself (as I do) or partner with other sites and share Members. The upsell model, while valuable, should also evolve.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Konda

It doesn't matter ratios changed from 1:300 to 1:3000, there is also 10x as much traffic than there was back then, so you can still get the same sales.

Also it is still possible to get 1:300 ratios these days, even from tube traffic, it just depends on which zones, keywords, geos, etc. you buy.

If that were true, everyone would be doing great. I count views not clicks, they're all surfers and today 1-35 surfers can be clicking on an advert. That makes your 1-300, 1-10,800.

If it's 1-50 it gets worse. and that's why the industry is shrinking.

Study where the new traffic is coming from and relate it to your sales.

[Relentless]

The industry does a terrible job identifying customers. Look at casinos and mobile game companies, some like double down have a foot in each of those arenas. Their entire business is built on understanding 90% of the visitors are worth less than the top ten percent of consumers.

Webcams make money because a small part of the visitors can pay an uncapped amount for their content. When you have fixed pricing at $30 per month you are asking too much from people who might pay a few bucks, but even more importantly you are only getting $30 from someone who is willing to pay a whole lot more.

Recurring billing is no longer the answer, getting the maximum revenue per visitor is much harder now, and much more important.

[The Porn Nerd]

Originally Posted by Relentless

The industry does a terrible job identifying customers. Look at casinos and mobile game companies, some like double down have a foot in each of those arenas. Their entire business is built on understanding 90% of the visitors are worth less than the top ten percent of consumers.

Webcams make money because a small part of the visitors can pay an uncapped amount for their content. When you have fixed pricing at $30 per month you are asking too much from people who might pay a few bucks, but even more importantly you are only getting $30 from someone who is willing to pay a whole lot more.

Recurring billing is no longer the answer, getting the maximum revenue per visitor is much harder now, and much more important.

Which is why my (or anyone's) $99.95 for a full year's access is kicking ass.

[blackmonsters]

The fact that I pay $100 a month just to get on the internet seems like a plan waiting to fail.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by johnnyloadproductions

No matter what happens, Paul, you have to get to 50k posts.

A red handle needs to be your sole focus now! Above all else.

I still have a very long way to go. Have the time though.