wow conservative krauthammer just said single payer is inevitable

[Joshua G]

Single-payer, here we come: The health care revolution in waiting - NY Daily News

the writing is on the wall for capitalist healthcare. even conservatives see the public is moving to what every other 1st world country has.

& krauthammer said trump might support it.

trump better find that 90s trump on this issue or the dems will use it to take back the white house.

[Joshua G]

A broad national consensus is developing that health care is indeed a right. This is historically new. And it carries immense implications for the future. It suggests that we may be heading inexorably to a government-run, single-payer system. It?s what Barack Obama once admitted he would have preferred but didn?t think the country was ready for. It may be ready now.

As Obamacare continues to unravel, it won?t take much for Democrats to abandon that Rube Goldberg wreckage and go for the simplicity and the universality of Medicare-for-all. Republicans will have one last chance to try to convince the country to remain with a market-based system, preferably one encompassing all the provisions that, for procedural reasons, had been left out of their latest proposal.

Don?t be surprised, however, if, in the end, single-payer wins out. Indeed, I wouldn?t be terribly surprised if Donald Trump, reading the zeitgeist, pulls the greatest 180 since Disraeli dished the Whigs in 1867 (by radically expanding the franchise) and joins the single-payer side.

Talk about disruption? About kicking over the furniture? That would be an American Krakatoa.

dumb libs if trump takes this pineapple away from you, you got nothing to run on, except race whining.

[Bladewire]

Single payer is common sense as is lowering the Medicare eligeability age to 50. Hopefully they'll do the right thing sooner than later

[mikesouth]

This is absolutely right and it is the ONLY way it will work.

IF healthcare is NOT a right the we have to let people who cant pay or get charities to pay, die, its that simple

IF healthcare is a right then it has to be paid for plain and simple. I would say a VAT with a premium on unhealthy foods would be the best start. I HATE the idea of government controlling healthcare but it IS inevitable.....as a side note name ONE thing that the government does well that they also have a monopoly on....Is THAT what we want for our healthcare?

[mikesouth]

PersonallyI think this could have been avoided...not now of course.

Drug companies used America and US employers and US insurance companies to pay for the rest of the world and to subsidize R and D. In my case consider my first trip to Thailand My doctor said I need HEP A and B vaccines...he asked if I was going into rural Thailand...I said YES. He then said I needed Typhoid and Malaria vaccines...they were pills he wrote the scrip.

The insurance company paid for the Hep A and B when i took the scrip to the pharmacy (CVS) I was told my insurance company would not pay for the Typhoid and Malaria vaccines. I said fine I will pay myself...the total for both vaccines 700 dollars.

I talked to DWB who told me get those in Thailand.

I walked into a pharmacy paid 20 dollars US...no scrip needed and I got the EXACT same vaccines from the exact same companies in the exact same dosage.

Now dont get me wrong the insurance companies are complicit in this as well they price gouge, they jacked prices when they saw that in the 80s and 90s mostly companies were paying for peoples health insurance so people werent soprice sensitive, they didnt see the money increasing. I had insurance in 2007 in 2008 it DOUBLED AND it excluded the return of my spinal tumor and it raised my deductable...in other words they fucked me every way they could...not unlike MindGeek but I digress.

Now we add congress and the war on drugs into the mix....now if you have osteo arthritis or cancer or anything that requires long term pain management you HAVE to drug test every 3 months and a doctor has to see you prior to every office visit..no more refills....so what does that do? it gives the insurance companies a reason to jack rates even more....and that 30 dollar drug test they use they bill you 350 dollars for it.... and this isnt even scratching the surface of the abuses by the drug companies, the insurance companies and to a lesser extent doctors and lawyers.

I suspect that this was the master plan by our government all along....Universal health care means bigger government..WAY bigger..more government employees and WAY WAY more people dependent on government...remember the first rule of government is that bigger government equals better government ;;; any way you look at it that is EXACTLY how government operates no matter which party is in charge I believe that this government plan to take over healthcare goes back to Clinton and has been engineered to get us exactly where we are

[crockett]

Originally Posted by mikesouth

This is absolutely right and it is the ONLY way it will work.

IF healthcare is NOT a right the we have to let people who cant pay or get charities to pay, die, its that simple

IF healthcare is a right then it has to be paid for plain and simple. I would say a VAT with a premium on unhealthy foods would be the best start. I HATE the idea of government controlling healthcare but it IS inevitable.....as a side note name ONE thing that the government does well that they also have a monopoly on....Is THAT what we want for our healthcare?

Do you realize we already have 2 working forms of govt controlled healthcare? One is run by the VA and the other is Medicaid. It's not like we need to re-invent the wheel, we just need to expand Medicaid for everyone. It's already there we just need a way to phase it in and to pay for it..

For the record, the VA was pretty damn good before VP Cheney opted to privatize much of it so his big business buddies could fuck over tax payers and give sub par service..

[blackmonsters]

Originally Posted by mikesouth

PersonallyI think this could have been avoided...not now of course.

Drug companies used America and US employers and US insurance companies to pay for the rest of the world and to subsidize R and D. In my case consider my first trip to Thailand My doctor said I need HEP A and B vaccines...he asked if I was going into rural Thailand...I said YES. He then said I needed Typhoid and Malaria vaccines...they were pills he wrote the scrip.

The insurance company paid for the Hep A and B when i took the scrip to the pharmacy (CVS) I was told my insurance company would not pay for the Typhoid and Malaria vaccines. I said fine I will pay myself...the total for both vaccines 700 dollars.

I talked to DWB who told me get those in Thailand.

I walked into a pharmacy paid 20 dollars US...no scrip needed and I got the EXACT same vaccines from the exact same companies in the exact same dosage.

Now dont get me wrong the insurance companies are complicit in this as well they price gouge, they jacked prices when they saw that in the 80s and 90s mostly companies were paying for peoples health insurance so people werent soprice sensitive, they didnt see the money increasing. I had insurance in 2007 in 2008 it DOUBLED AND it excluded the return of my spinal tumor and it raised my deductable...in other words they fucked me every way they could...not unlike MindGeek but I digress.

Now we add congress and the war on drugs into the mix....now if you have osteo arthritis or cancer or anything that requires long term pain management you HAVE to drug test every 3 months and a doctor has to see you prior to every office visit..no more refills....so what does that do? it gives the insurance companies a reason to jack rates even more....and that 30 dollar drug test they use they bill you 350 dollars for it.... and this isnt even scratching the surface of the abuses by the drug companies, the insurance companies and to a lesser extent doctors and lawyers.

I suspect that this was the master plan by our government all along....Universal health care means bigger government..WAY bigger..more government employees and WAY WAY more people dependent on government...remember the first rule of government is that bigger government equals better government ;;; any way you look at it that is EXACTLY how government operates no matter which party is in charge I believe that this government plan to take over healthcare goes back to Clinton and has been engineered to get us exactly where we are

If the government were not interested in controlling our health then...

- Why did they start the "war on drugs"?

- Why even have an FDA; just let us eat shit on a stick if the price is good?

- Why pay for studies to find out what causes cancer?

- Why care about air pollution?

... ?????


.

[thommy]

Originally Posted by mikesouth

PersonallyI think this could have been avoided...not now of course.

Drug companies used America and US employers and US insurance companies to pay for the rest of the world and to subsidize R and D. In my case consider my first trip to Thailand My doctor said I need HEP A and B vaccines...he asked if I was going into rural Thailand...I said YES. He then said I needed Typhoid and Malaria vaccines...they were pills he wrote the scrip.

The insurance company paid for the Hep A and B when i took the scrip to the pharmacy (CVS) I was told my insurance company would not pay for the Typhoid and Malaria vaccines. I said fine I will pay myself...the total for both vaccines 700 dollars.

I talked to DWB who told me get those in Thailand.

I walked into a pharmacy paid 20 dollars US...no scrip needed and I got the EXACT same vaccines from the exact same companies in the exact same dosage.

Now dont get me wrong the insurance companies are complicit in this as well they price gouge, they jacked prices when they saw that in the 80s and 90s mostly companies were paying for peoples health insurance so people werent soprice sensitive, they didnt see the money increasing. I had insurance in 2007 in 2008 it DOUBLED AND it excluded the return of my spinal tumor and it raised my deductable...in other words they fucked me every way they could...not unlike MindGeek but I digress.

Now we add congress and the war on drugs into the mix....now if you have osteo arthritis or cancer or anything that requires long term pain management you HAVE to drug test every 3 months and a doctor has to see you prior to every office visit..no more refills....so what does that do? it gives the insurance companies a reason to jack rates even more....and that 30 dollar drug test they use they bill you 350 dollars for it.... and this isnt even scratching the surface of the abuses by the drug companies, the insurance companies and to a lesser extent doctors and lawyers.

I suspect that this was the master plan by our government all along....Universal health care means bigger government..WAY bigger..more government employees and WAY WAY more people dependent on government...remember the first rule of government is that bigger government equals better government ;;; any way you look at it that is EXACTLY how government operates no matter which party is in charge I believe that this government plan to take over healthcare goes back to Clinton and has been engineered to get us exactly where we are

you are absolutely right.
the pharma indistry is robbing sick people all over the world but nowhere so badly as in US.

what I personlly do not understand is the following:

Ho comes that a pharma mogul name Martin Shkreli who went famous by increasing the price of a drug from 13,50 $ to 750 $ want Trump as president if he have to fear him?

this guy even gave free musicdownloads for young people who vote for trump and was engaged in the pro-trump campaign.

should that not be a warning signal?

how does that go together ????

[woj]

where do you think the $$ for it would come from? hell will freeze over before republicans get behind a plan that will require +15% increase in taxes...

[thommy]

Originally Posted by woj

where do you think the $$ for it would come from? hell will freeze over before republicans get behind a plan that will require +15% increase in taxes...

from where do you think it comes now ?

[woj]

Originally Posted by thommy

from where do you think it comes now ?

tax payers... so you think there is any chance that republicans will get behind a plan that will involve +15% tax increase? I don't... small government/low taxes/pro business/fiscal conservatism/etc are the main selling points of the republican party, if they fuck their supporters with a +15% tax increase, it will destroy any chances of any of them getting re-elected...

[Joshua G]

Originally Posted by woj

tax payers... so you think there is any chance that republicans will get behind a plan that will involve +15% tax increase? I don't... small government/low taxes/pro business/fiscal conservatism/etc are the main selling points of the republican party, if they fuck their supporters with a +15% tax increase, it will destroy any chances of any of them getting re-elected...

medicare-for-all, IMO is much more likely than outright single payer. sort of a hybrid that everyone old & sick is on medicare, & young healthy are on affordable plans competing over state lines.

GOPs from blue/purple states would align with democrats. wouldnt take that many GOP to make it happen, & you can already see the moderates that opposed trumpcare because of the people who wouldve lost coverage.

as far as paying for things, well, GOP never has any good answers. someday the GOP will have to face that successful capitalist globalist free markets, AKA their ideal world, creates giant wealth disparities that have made themselves wider this decade & led to a populist uprising.

& the GOP is gojng to have to tax the shit out of the rich if they are going to support an economy that can only make mcjobs & jobs for robots. there will no longer be any middle class & they will need the government more than ever.

my own solution is...drill baby drill...that would pay for everything. & piss off mark prince as a booby prize.

[Barry-xlovecam]

I would save $5K to $6K a year at today's rates for a high deductible insurance policy (I pay the first $6,900). So, if I paid an 8% VAT to cover health care it really would not make much difference. Were did you get that 15% figure? The Obamacare threshold for an exemption is 8% currently ...

VAT is a consumption tax on B2C retail goods. I don't think we need to go to a 20% or 25% VAT like in the EU -- the USA is not laying out a social state dogma -- just trying to socialize healthcare as a human right.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by woj

where do you think the $$ for it would come from? hell will freeze over before republicans get behind a plan that will require +15% increase in taxes...

Healthcare for all is the fiscally conservative thing to do because it lowers prices and saves money in the long run. It will cost us up front but in the long run we will save big.

There have been tons of studies showing this and we have other countries that actually prove the point...

However no republican is fiscally conservative in this day in time.. They all spend worse than Democrats and put everything on credit.. They are only worried about how much money they can get for their next campaign by getting things their doners want vs looking at long term stability of our country..

[xKingx]

The US needs universal healthcare. I have been saying this for over 20 years. As far as taxes going up to cover. They should cut that bloated military budget in half. I don't see that happening until we kick every democrat and republican out of office, and start from scratch.

[thommy]

Originally Posted by xKingx

The US needs universal healthcare. I have been saying this for over 20 years. As far as taxes going up to cover. They should cut that bloated military budget in half. I don't see that happening until we kick every democrat and republican out of office, and start from scratch.

that was the obama plan but it was not to do with the reps.

elected reps are usually the rich people - they want to lower the tax and not increase them.

but this kind of universal healthcare is only to do with a higher tax and not with a lower.

so imagine who pays that at the end.

it will end up in higher VAT (only paid by consumers), higher gasoline prices (again paid by consumers) and a tonn of hidden consumer taxes.
and the rich ones will become richer !

on top of all that he starts a trade war with the whole world because he think that products what are not imported have to be produced in USA. if that will happen this products will be THAT expensive that nobody can afford to buy them because of the other high taxes.

the trump idea is so far away from reality that it can only make the majority of americans poor and force them to work in 4 jobs instead of 2 or 3.

[Joshua G]

Originally Posted by thommy

on top of all that he starts a trade war with the whole world because he think that products what are not imported have to be produced in USA. if that will happen this products will be THAT expensive that nobody can afford to buy them because of the other high taxes.

the trump idea is so far away from reality that it can only make the majority of americans poor and force them to work in 4 jobs instead of 2 or 3.

hey smartfest...if he imports less & produces more here, you are right, price will be higher. you skipped one key fact thanks to your political blinders....MAKING MORE HERE WILL MAKE MORE JOBS.

& no smartfest, the public will not need a 4th job because their toothpaste at walmart when from 2.99 to 3.49. that shit been happening with current crooked trade, & only the rich made the gains from outsourcing.

somewhere in your twisted math you are going to have to reduce the fat profits of the capitalists. they will have to sacrifice a 3rd yacht to keep that tube of toothpaste down in price. amazon & walmart are in a price war, or did your euro-libtard propaganda not inform you of that?

its like you think you know what you are talking about. but you dont. thommy thinks he is smarter than the stock market, which had the biggest presidential bounce in history...

[woj]

Originally Posted by crockett

Healthcare for all is the fiscally conservative thing to do because it lowers prices and saves money in the long run. It will cost us up front but in the long run we will save big.

There have been tons of studies showing this and we have other countries that actually prove the point...

However no republican is fiscally conservative in this day in time.. They all spend worse than Democrats and put everything on credit.. They are only worried about how much money they can get for their next campaign by getting things their doners want vs looking at long term stability of our country..

politician's main objective is not to do what is best in the long term, but to do what will get them re-elected... so you think republicans will throw their biggest supporter (healthcare insurance industry) and their voters under the bus?

I don't see any logical reason why republicans would be in favor of expanding government's involvement in healthcare, because:
a. that would fuck their biggest campaign donors
b. it would lead to higher taxes = fucking their voters

most realistic scenario is that later in the year numerous insurers will back out of the Obamacare, rates for 2018 will be announced, they will be 30+% higher... and at that point it will become obvious that Obamacare is not working, so there will be no other choice but to go along with something similar to the plan that was just pitched, as that will be a better choice than doing nothing at all... and then even democrats will probably get on board, cause if they don't, next election cycle ads like "Democratic Senator xyz voted against fixing our healthcare system" will be running 24/7...

any other scenario, especially "single payer", is a pipe dream with the current congress...

[thommy]

Originally Posted by Joshua G

hey smartfest...if he imports less & produces more here, you are right, price will be higher. you skipped one key fact thanks to your political blinders....MAKING MORE HERE WILL MAKE MORE JOBS.

i really don´t know if that makes sense to explain you the economic basic rules - because you do not evenunderstand the simple fact, that the market is limited to the money available.

let´s say:

1 person where buying 100 products before what cost 1000 dollars because they are imported.

now they are produced in the country - MUCH more expenive and will cost 2000 instead.

the same person will only buy 50 products for the same price.

the other 50 he can´t afford anymore. but as they are also produced in the country but not sold anymore (because they are too expensive) it will COST jobs instead of making them.

is that so hard too understand?

& no smartfest, the public will not need a 4th job because their toothpaste at walmart when from 2.99 to 3.49. that shit been happening with current crooked trade, & only the rich made the gains from outsourcing.

outsourcing is not only making more money - it gives every person in a country PROSPERITY because he can buy more for the same money.
if he have to buy less for it it will cost prosperity AND jobs.

somewhere in your twisted math you are going to have to reduce the fat profits of the capitalists. they will have to sacrifice a 3rd yacht to keep that tube of toothpaste down in price. amazon & walmart are in a price war, or did your euro-libtard propaganda not inform you of that?

its like you think you know what you are talking about. but you dont. thommy thinks he is smarter than the stock market, which had the biggest presidential bounce in history...

look idiot, I HAVE STUDIED that in university and i have a master degree in business economy and trade economy- what are your skills ???

i lived all my live from this knowledge and same as nobody will buy a product what is too expensive I would not be able to sell my knowledge if it is not worth the price.

you are complaining that the rich people are buying big yachts and vote the same time for someone who want to decrease the tax fro them.

you should switch your brain on before you start to write because everybody who have just 1% clue of economy basics will laugh about your statements.

and about the stockmarket i will tell you also something:

the stock market raise was already under obama. what happens now is just the reaction on trumps acting by letting them do what they want again.

and now write down this:

BEFORE the end of the year the dow will fall UNDER 10.000
this is a promise !!!!

and after that is happening all the rich americans will be RICHER and all you brainwashed nobodies will be a lot poorer.

the only thing what possibly can stop it is to get this idiot out of the white house.

but i doubt that this will happen - so happy suffering !

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by Joshua G

dumb libs if trump takes this pineapple away from you, you got nothing to run on, except race whining.

the drs offices I go to tell me my Obamacare is Medicare, your dream has come trues, Obama has put over 1/2 the country on Medicare

[RedFred]

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

the drs offices I go to tell me my Obamacare is Medicare, your dream has come trues, Obama has put over 1/2 the country on Medicare

you should ask your dr how he was able to get through medical school being so stupid.