Old people in nursing homes -- Thanks Trump and Congress

[Barry-xlovecam]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/24/s...dle-class.html

ORANGE, Va. ? Alice Jacobs, 90, once owned a factory and horses. She raised four children and buried two husbands.

But years in an assisted living center drained her savings, and now she relies on Medicaid to pay for her care at Dogwood Village, a nonprofit, county-owned nursing home here.

?You think you?ve got enough money to last all your life, and here I am,? Ms. Jacobs said.

....

Under federal law, state Medicaid programs are required to cover nursing home care. But state officials decide how much to pay facilities, and states under budgetary pressure could decrease the amount they are willing to pay or restrict eligibility for coverage.

?The states are going to make it harder to qualify medically for needing nursing home care,? predicted Toby S. Edelman, a senior policy attorney at the Center for Medicare Advocacy. ?They?d have to be more disabled before they qualify for Medicaid assistance.?

States might allow nursing homes to require residents? families to pay for a portion of their care, she added. Officials could also limit the types of services and days of nursing home care they pay for, as Medicare already does.

The 150 residents of Dogwood Village include former teachers, farmers, doctors, lawyers, stay-at-home parents and health aides ? a cross section of this rural county a half-hour northeast of Charlottesville. Many entered old age solidly middle class but turned to Medicaid, which was once thought of as a government program exclusively for the poor, after exhausting their insurance and assets.

Good luck to the winners ... tick-tock, tick-tock

[crockett]

The most ironic thing about the dumb dumbs who voted for Trump, a large part are nearing nursing home age. They basically just fucked themselves out of medicaid assistance in their elder years.

By and far Trump's largest support base was old white dudes who will now end up losing all their money to health issues and won't have the security blanket of services like medicare.

They will of course then blame Obama.


Insurance companies will not pay to sit you in a nursing home for 5 or 10 years. They will burn up all their savings in a few years or less, the state will take their houses to cover the bills..

WTG dumb dumbs, this is now your future..

[NatalieK]

oh that´s not all that´s come out today...


laying off jobs at the carrier plant begin next month &...

wait for it...

ford aren´t moving to Mexico, only China like, well done Trump, you idiot

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...p-carrier-jobs


Seriously, Dirty Don needs to be removed from presidency before America realise it´s too late

[celandina]

Soon there will be more trouble because...

[Barry-xlovecam]

From Claymore County, Oklahoma -- SOLID Trump territory;

HHC monitors potential delay of Medicaid payments | News | claremoreprogress.com

[A]pproximately 12.5 percent of HHC?s inpatient net revenue and 9.3 percent of outpatient net revenue comes from Medicaid.

Given that percentage, ?It?s very important for our hospital - and the greater Claremore community to have a stable and sustained Medicaid program,? he emphasized.

HHC is expected to provide the same level of services and access to health care for Medicare and Medicaid patients, yet receive less payment for those services from state and federal agencies, he said.

?It?s a difficult position to be in when we are here to provide high-quality care to our patients - and they deserve that,? Chaussard added.

The hospital will do everything they can to minimize the effects to HHC employees and patients, he said, including those with Medicaid. ...

Got your one-way ticket on the Trump Train to hell -- enjoy your ride ...
Good luck to the winners ... tick-tock, tick-tock

[crockett]

Originally Posted by GspotProductions

oh that´s not all that´s come out today...


laying off jobs at the carrier plant begin next month &...

wait for it...

ford aren´t moving to Mexico, only China like, well done Trump, you idiot

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...p-carrier-jobs


Seriously, Dirty Don needs to be removed from presidency before America realise it´s too late

Oh it's not just that McDonalds just said they are replacing 2,500 workers with kiosks and somehow that is a victory to dumb dumb right wingers who think it's justified because workers wanted the minimum wage increased..

They aren't very smart people..

[Robbie]

I wonder if costs will go down at nursing homes if the money available to them from the govt. Is less?
Seems like anything that has access to the govt. and it's massive funding mysteriously skyrockets in its pricing (education & health care for instance)
I wonder if all these nursing homes will just be empty OR will they magically find a way to keep taking money from the govt. at a reduced rate.
I think we all know the answer to that.

First they will conduct a fear campaign to try and get sheeple to be "outraged".
And then if that doesn't work, they will simply adjust their pricing to whatever the govt. gives them.

The CEO's of the corporations who really run the nursing homes will be forced to buy one less yacht and maybe pay for one less mistress to have a fancy apartment.

And then in a few years when a Democrat gets back in power they can get back to the corruption and "business as usual" again.

[thommy]

Originally Posted by Robbie

I wonder if costs will go down at nursing homes if the money available to them from the govt. Is less?
Seems like anything that has access to the govt. and it's massive funding mysteriously skyrockets in its pricing (education & health care for instance)
I wonder if all these nursing homes will just be empty OR will they magically find a way to keep taking money from the govt. at a reduced rate.
I think we all know the answer to that.

First they will conduct a fear campaign to try and get sheeple to be "outraged".
And then if that doesn't work, they will simply adjust their pricing to whatever the govt. gives them.

The CEO's of the corporations who really run the nursing homes will be forced to buy one less yacht and maybe pay for one less mistress to have a fancy apartment.

And then in a few years when a Democrat gets back in power they can get back to the corruption and "business as usual" again.

did you ever realize that the group of elder people is getting bigger every year?
no the nursing homes will not be empty because a part of this elder people have the money to pay for it or they have a house or some funds (what they wanted to give their children after death) - this 50% will still fill up the nursing homes.

and the other 50% ???
well you don´t care them anyway.....

[Tasty1]

"The 150 residents of Dogwood Village include former teachers, farmers, doctors, lawyers, stay-at-home parents and health aides — a cross section of this rural county a half-hour northeast of Charlottesville. Many entered old age solidly middle class but turned to Medicaid, which was once thought of as a government program exclusively for the poor, after exhausting their insurance and assets."

So they lost their savings during the Obama period and now want the republicans to take care of them.

[Barry-xlovecam]

Your turns will come ...
Good luck to the winners ... tick-tock, tick-tock

[kane]

Originally Posted by Robbie

I wonder if costs will go down at nursing homes if the money available to them from the govt. Is less?
Seems like anything that has access to the govt. and it's massive funding mysteriously skyrockets in its pricing (education & health care for instance)
I wonder if all these nursing homes will just be empty OR will they magically find a way to keep taking money from the govt. at a reduced rate.
I think we all know the answer to that.

First they will conduct a fear campaign to try and get sheeple to be "outraged".
And then if that doesn't work, they will simply adjust their pricing to whatever the govt. gives them.

The CEO's of the corporations who really run the nursing homes will be forced to buy one less yacht and maybe pay for one less mistress to have a fancy apartment.

And then in a few years when a Democrat gets back in power they can get back to the corruption and "business as usual" again.

I have a feeling the homes won't be lowering prices or having trouble finding people to live in them. My mom is 77 and has bad arthritis in her knees and hips so she uses a wheelchair and needs help doing some things. She now lives in an assisted living community. The law requires them to give a certain number of apartments to Medicaid only residents. They set aside exactly the minimum they have to in order to meet the law and they have a long waiting list of people wanting to get into those apartments. There are some facilities where most of the people are on Medicaid, but many of them are run down, and aren't very good.

What Is see happening is them raising their prices for those who either pay out of pocket or have some kind of different insurance that helps them pay for the place to help the company offset the loss from Medicaid. They will also likely try to cut corners to save money. I think lowering costs will be their last resort as that would cut into their profit.

[RedFred]

Conservatives see a suffering person and they feel better about themselves.
Liberals see a suffering person and feel horrible that humanity would allow this to happen.

[mineistaken]

Thanks, Donald.

[onwebcam]

If you want to get rich quick open a nursing home in the US. If you want to go bankrupt quick go live in one.

[kane]

It'll be interesting to see what happens at the start of the week when the CBO releases their score on the Senate healthcare bill. It is not going to be good. I have a feeling there will be more Republicans bailing on it then. That said, it won't shock me if they find a way to ram this through. t would still have a ways to go to be law, but what I can't understand is how Trump can publically support this bill when it goes back on a few of the major campaign promises he made.

If that happens, I wonder if some of his core support will start to dwindle.

[TampaToker]

Originally Posted by onwebcam

If you want to get rich quick open a nursing home in the US. If you want to go bankrupt quick go live in one.

Fucked up as that sounds its true.....

[Robbie]

Who is the "his" in your "his core support" statement?
Trump?

Hell no. I voted for Trump and I'm as disgusted with the Republican Party as I have ever been. I don't hold Trump responsible for what Congress is doing.
Trump is publicly supporting it because that's his job.

Just like Obama supported ObamaCare...even though he knew the math didn't add up.

The only good thing I see about the Republicans is: At least they have some members who actually said "No" for reasons valid to their constituents.
When the Democrats voted in ObamaCare...they didn't even get the opportunity to SEE or read the bill. They just voted in unison like some kind of monolithic simple-minded creature.

I know that the anti-Trump people are so obsessed, hysterical, and hate-filled that all they can think of is hoping that Republicans fail so Trump will fail.

But looking at this in a different way (a sane way)...I don't WANT them to pass a bill that sucks.
Our Federal Govt. simply can NOT pay for all of you to go to the doctor.
The govt. is 20 TRILLION dollars in debt.
What needs to happen is an investigation by Congress into price gouging by the health care industry, big pharma, and big insurance.

That way...all of you can act like adults and pay your own damn bills and quit expecting somebody else to take care of all of you like children.

[TampaToker]

Originally Posted by kane

It'll be interesting to see what happens at the start of the week when the CBO releases their score on the Senate healthcare bill. It is not going to be good. I have a feeling there will be more Republicans bailing on it then. That said, it won't shock me if they find a way to ram this through. t would still have a ways to go to be law, but what I can't understand is how Trump can publically support this bill when it goes back on a few of the major campaign promises he made.

If that happens, I wonder if some of his core support will start to dwindle.

Trump needs to shut the fuck up about health care and let Obama care die. Government has no business in the healthcare none at all. Once there is a entitlement it is almost impossible to roll back.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by TampaToker

Trump needs to shut the fuck up about health care and let Obama care die. Government has no business in the healthcare none at all. Once there is a entitlement it is almost impossible to roll back.

Excellent point. The only thing govt. needs to do is stop the price-gouging so the people in the U.S. don't pay 10 times the cost for the same exact prescription medications or hospital stays, etc.

Hospitals billing people $50 for a single paper dixie cup to take a single $10 tylenol is a total ripoff.

And surgical procedures??? Holy fuck.

There is a huge "medical tourism" industry so that people can fly first class to other countries, stay at a 5 star hotel, and have surgery done. And with all of that it's still a total cost that is about 1/4th of what you pay in the U.S.

I'm not saying to go to another country for an emergency heart transplant. lol

I'm talking about non-emergency surgery's. You can google up medical tourism and you'll start finding agency's that book it. And the pricing is incredible when you compare it to U.S. price-gouging.

[kane]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Excellent point. The only thing govt. needs to do is stop the price-gouging so the people in the U.S. don't pay 10 times the cost for the same exact prescription medications or hospital stays, etc.

Hospitals billing people $50 for a single paper dixie cup to take a single $10 tylenol is a total ripoff.

And surgical procedures??? Holy fuck.

There is a huge "medical tourism" industry so that people can fly first class to other countries, stay at a 5 star hotel, and have surgery done. And with all of that it's still a total cost that is about 1/4th of what you pay in the U.S.

I'm not saying to go to another country for an emergency heart transplant. lol

I'm talking about non-emergency surgery's. You can google up medical tourism and you'll start finding agency's that book it. And the pricing is incredible when you compare it to U.S. price-gouging.

I saw a story not too long ago comparing prices of surgical procedures between different countries. A person could fly to Spain, live there for six months to learn the language, get a hip replacement surgery, live there during the recovery, come home, blow out the other hip, fly back and get a second hip surgery and still spend less than the cost of a single hip replacement in the US. The amount we are price gouged is insane.

[kane]

Originally Posted by TampaToker

Trump needs to shut the fuck up about health care and let Obama care die. Government has no business in the healthcare none at all. Once there is a entitlement it is almost impossible to roll back.

I don't have a problem with this, in principle, but it could only actually work if we were able to get rid of the price gouging and things that cause our healthcare to cost so much.

[Barry-xlovecam]

Trump has said he wanted a healthcare bill that was not "mean" and with "heart". Trump campaigned on the promise of a ***superlative word here *** healthcare reform. Maybe, that meant 'wonderfully' reducing the taxes added to the top brackets and the subsidies the federal government would pay in;

1. Medicaid grants to the states,
2. free Medicaid to persons and their dependents living below the poverty line,
3. subsidies to lower income persons.

Maybe that's what Trump means -- less taxes and less healthcare access.

Is this the sort of healthcare bill he will sign or will he veto this abortion of a healthcare bill, in its final form, being produced now in the 115th Congress with Republican majority support?

• Maybe, the best thing to do would be to exempt and allow an opt-out of mandatory full coverage heathcare for persons under 35. They could buy limited coverage at a reduced price on the condition they receive no free medical care paid for by the government -- in other words: be left to die in the streets.
  
• People 36 -64 should be able to elect to buy no coverage on the condition they receive no free medical care paid for by the government -- in other words: be left to die in the streets.
  
• People 36 -64 should be able to high deductible ($10K to $100K) insurance policies as excess coverage if they want.
  
• All ages of taxpayers should be able to use HSA tax deferred accounts with the maximum amount allowed deferred increased to $10K a year.
  
• If they can pay cash --well-- fine. If not, you can take your chances and live in fear.
  
• Medicaid for long term nursing home care for asset qualified persons has to be an explicit guaranteed benefit and human right. Their care has to be medically ethical and *kind* We cannot just leave our most helpless to die in the woods or worse.

So, here are my suggestions for the *Trump Stooges* They will have to put working out the tax and monetary stability and sustainability issues as a second priority. Priorities are; if you are sick and cannot work you will not earn new money -- just use up what money you have -- that's the only static reality at this issue's core -- and that is the same for 90%+ of the citizenry.

As it stands today, odds are very good that the Senate version of the House passed 'American Health Care Act' will not pass. So this whole conversation may be moot by the end of the month -- we will have to wait and see.

Good luck to the winners ... tick-tock, tick-tock

[Relentless]

It's another step toward universal healthcare. Obamacare and Trumpcare are both destined to be failures in history... replaced eventually by the only sensible system. it is inevitable that we end up with a single payer system. The battle is over who can steal how much and who dies on the path from what we have now to what we will have eventually.

[kane]

Originally Posted by Relentless

It's another step toward universal healthcare. Obamacare and Trumpcare are both destined to be failures in history... replaced eventually by the only sensible system. it is inevitable that we end up with a single payer system. The battle is over who can steal how much and who dies on the path from what we have now to what we will have eventually.

I've believed this for a while. Eventually, we will get to the point where we have a universal healthcare system like every other industrialized nation in the world. Like many things, however, we are going to take our time getting there and exhaust all other options first.

[Bladewire]

Originally Posted by Relentless

It's another step toward universal healthcare. Obamacare and Trumpcare are both destined to be failures in history... replaced eventually by the only sensible system. it is inevitable that we end up with a single payer system. The battle is over who can steal how much and who dies on the path from what we have now to what we will have eventually.

100% correct

When you travel the world you quickly realize we're so ass backwards in America with so many things, healthcare & prescription drugs being a prime example.

Americans are the world's cashcows. Get into the American market and you're set, unfortunately we can't afford to be cashcows for greedy multinational health insurance & drug corps they need to go, our survival as a nation depends on it, any foreigner that says anything different wants America to fail.

[Barry-xlovecam]

Yes. I think we could maintain a universal healthcare with an additional tax collected -- like a federal VAT or a GST.

The cost would be less than what the costs are of the way we are trying to rig the system and give one player (stakeholder) more or less.

[Bladewire]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

Yes. I think we could maintain a universal healthcare with an additional tax collected -- like a federal VAT or a GST.

The cost would be less than what the costs are of the way we are trying to rig the system and give one player (stakeholder) more or less.

It's not rocket science, easily doable when you live in a country where every politician isn't bought by a pharma or insurance company. We'll get there eventually... bullshit we're even in this fucked up position but, if it weren't for insurance companies taking everyone's money then denying coverage when something happens we'd never be in this position.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

Yes. I think we could maintain a universal healthcare with an additional tax collected -- like a federal VAT or a GST.

The cost would be less than what the costs are of the way we are trying to rig the system and give one player (stakeholder) more or less.

How do you figure the "cost would be less"?

I don't think you are being logical about that.
We were told by Pres. Obama in the 2008 campaign that healthcare costs THEN were too high and were bankrupting people.
I'd LOVE to have those 2008 prices back again.
ObamaCare was sold on that same bullshit story that once govt. got involved the prices would go down. And we can all see how that worked out.

Prices aren't going to go down unless you give the people price gouging you a REASON to bring them down.
It's called the market.
It works.
Prices didn't start flying up on going to the doctor or the hospital until after the govt. got involved in the 1980's and started HMO's.

At that point you didn't NEED insurance. You just went to the doctor. Prices were reasonable.

Now? Nobody can afford to pay out of their pocket to have any minor surgery at all. An appendix being taken out can cost $20,000. It's fucking ridiculous.

No, I disagree with you 100%.
Single pay by a bankrupt govt. that will just continue printing money and make it more worthless?
That's a recipe for Big Corporations owning hospitals and Big Pharma to continue raising prices.
They will have ZERO incentive not to do so.

They will own the Congress and Senate with their lobbyists and the Federal Govt. will pay even MORE for procedures and prescriptions than we do now.

There's no incentive for health care to go down in that scenario. Just an unlimited supply of "free" money coming in from the Feds.
Except you keep skipping over the FACT that we have a 20 TRILLION dollar debt and an unfunded liability of a couple of hundred TRILLION.

Dude...we need to STOP spending money. Not sit around and figure out more ways for me to pay for your healthcare.
The price gouging has got to stop and then you can pay your own damn way and stay out of other people's pockets. ("you" is being used in general...I don't mean YOU personally.)

[CoolMikey]

If government is so great at controlling costs and single payer is the "only sensible system" why is the price of pretty much every government contract overblown? why did for example ObamaCare website cost 100s of millions? what makes any of you think that they will handle healthcare costs any better?

[Bladewire]

Originally Posted by Robbie

How do you figure the "cost would be less"?

I don't think you are being logical about that.
We were told by Pres. Obama in the 2008 campaign that healthcare costs THEN were too high and were bankrupting people.
I'd LOVE to have those 2008 prices back again.
ObamaCare was sold on that same bullshit story that once govt. got involved the prices would go down. And we can all see how that worked out.

Prices aren't going to go down unless you give the people price gouging you a REASON to bring them down.
It's called the market.
It works.
Prices didn't start flying up on going to the doctor or the hospital until after the govt. got involved in the 1980's and started HMO's.

At that point you didn't NEED insurance. You just went to the doctor. Prices were reasonable.

Now? Nobody can afford to pay out of their pocket to have any minor surgery at all. An appendix being taken out can cost $20,000. It's fucking ridiculous.

No, I disagree with you 100%.
Single pay by a bankrupt govt. that will just continue printing money and make it more worthless?
That's a recipe for Big Corporations owning hospitals and Big Pharma to continue raising prices.
They will have ZERO incentive not to do so.

They will own the Congress and Senate with their lobbyists and the Federal Govt. will pay even MORE for procedures and prescriptions than we do now.

There's no incentive for health care to go down in that scenario. Just an unlimited supply of "free" money coming in from the Feds.
Except you keep skipping over the FACT that we have a 20 TRILLION dollar debt and an unfunded liability of a couple of hundred TRILLION.

Dude...we need to STOP spending money. Not sit around and figure out more ways for me to pay for your healthcare.
The price gouging has got to stop and then you can pay your own damn way and stay out of other people's pockets. ("you" is being used in general...I don't mean YOU personally.)

You're not very smart, no offense.

You need to live outside the U.S. to know what's possible and how easily it's accomplished in EVERY other Western nation except for America. Think about that.

[NatalieK]

Originally Posted by crockett

Oh it's not just that McDonalds just said they are replacing 2,500 workers with kiosks and somehow that is a victory to dumb dumb right wingers who think it's justified because workers wanted the minimum wage increased..

They aren't very smart people..

they really do listen to the BS that spews from DirtyDon´s mouth & they believe it...

they don´t realise they´re being robbed by a rich wanker every day! Gullible twats

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by Robbie

I wonder if costs will go down at nursing homes if the money available to them from the govt. Is less?
Seems like anything that has access to the govt. and it's massive funding mysteriously skyrockets in its pricing (education & health care for instance)
I wonder if all these nursing homes will just be empty OR will they magically find a way to keep taking money from the govt. at a reduced rate.
I think we all know the answer to that.

First they will conduct a fear campaign to try and get sheeple to be "outraged".
And then if that doesn't work, they will simply adjust their pricing to whatever the govt. gives them.

The CEO's of the corporations who really run the nursing homes will be forced to buy one less yacht and maybe pay for one less mistress to have a fancy apartment.

And then in a few years when a Democrat gets back in power they can get back to the corruption and "business as usual" again.

Thankfully our president is "pro business" right Robbie?

[kane]

Originally Posted by CoolMikey

If government is so great at controlling costs and single payer is the "only sensible system" why is the price of pretty much every government contract overblown? why did for example ObamaCare website cost 100s of millions? what makes any of you think that they will handle healthcare costs any better?

Well, one way they could keep cost down is by setting a ceiling of what they are willing to pay for services/medication. Say, for example, a drug company is currently selling a drug at $200 for a 30 day supply. In a single-payer system, the government could say something like: "We will pay $100 for that drug." Now, let's say that the drug costs the manufacturer $30 to may. They are still making a $70 profit. They will have to decide if they want to still make millions selling that drug at the lower price or just not sell it. Many countries put price caps on what pharm companies can charge. The same can be done with actual care. This would allow companies to make a nice profit, medical professionals to get paid well, and prices to come down.

That said, it is going to be hard to do this because about 95% of our elected leaders are in the pockets of these healthcare and drug companies so even if we got a single-payer system there is no guarantee they would force them to lower their prices. Add in massive money coming from health insurance companies that would be put out of business and it makes for a very challenging situation.

In short, there is no guarantee the government would reduce costs. They would have the ability and tools to do so, I just don't know that they would have the guts to actually go through with it.

[Barry-xlovecam]

I can afford $20K for an appendectomy. Sorry, you can't.
I wouldn't be happy about it. I had minor elbow nerve canal surgery -- was released the same day $7,400 was the price discounted contract with insurance.
I don't have a real problem with a high deductible -- within reason.
If you need major surgery or some longer term treatment like for cancer -- that can cost over $1 million. Insurance is paying a premium for risk transfer. The risks cost what they do.

If you can buy into Medicare early -- it costs like $425 /mo Dialysis patients, SSI disability. The same coverage on the private market would cost me $700 - $800 /mo with the same deductibles -- that how I know it would cost less.

Miraculously, the same prescription drugs I have to take daily dropped from $1,450 to $600/yr -- same type meds over 3 years -- combination of ACA and off-patent generics.

[CoolMikey]

Originally Posted by kane

Well, one way they could keep cost down is by setting a ceiling of what they are willing to pay for services/medication. Say, for example, a drug company is currently selling a drug at $200 for a 30 day supply. In a single-payer system, the government could say something like: "We will pay $100 for that drug." Now, let's say that the drug costs the manufacturer $30 to may. They are still making a $70 profit. They will have to decide if they want to still make millions selling that drug at the lower price or just not sell it. Many countries put price caps on what pharm companies can charge. The same can be done with actual care. This would allow companies to make a nice profit, medical professionals to get paid well, and prices to come down.

That said, it is going to be hard to do this because about 95% of our elected leaders are in the pockets of these healthcare and drug companies so even if we got a single-payer system there is no guarantee they would force them to lower their prices. Add in massive money coming from health insurance companies that would be put out of business and it makes for a very challenging situation.

In short, there is no guarantee the government would reduce costs. They would have the ability and tools to do so, I just don't know that they would have the guts to actually go through with it.

That's all theoretical though. Sure, it's possible that they could lower costs, but why doesn't it already happen with current contracts? Why does military pay $1000 (or whatever) for a hammer for example? Why isn't there a "ceiling" on that? Or why wasn't there a "ceiling" on the price of the ObamaCare website?

I think it's a pipe dream that "single payer" will miraculously lower costs. What most likely will happen is that simply, instead of capitalists, government bureaucrats will get their turn to fuck the populace. So same shit, just different group will be benefiting.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by kane

Well, one way they could keep cost down is by setting a ceiling of what they are willing to pay for services/medication.

That's an excellent idea.
And here in the real world it would work.

But in Washington D.C.???
Think about it.

For instance...talking about "ceilings" being set...Congress expressly passed a law creating a DEBT CEILING for the U.S. debt.
That law was designed to keep the govt. from going too far into debt. And it was a great law. Contractors with the U.S. Govt. would have had to negotiate pricing within the confines of the "ceiling".

But of course...the corrupt politicians NEXT move was to amend the debt ceiling law to allow them to RAISE the damn thing.

So now, every year...it is historically routine to raise the debt ceiling.
And if anybody DARES to argue against it??? They are condemned by the media as wanting to "shut down the govt." (which we all know doesn't really happen...it's just more "washington-speak")

My thinking is...that the lobbyists would very quickly make sure that there was a mechanism for Congress to raise the "ceiling" on healthcare spending.

And the big medical corporations would make damn sure to keep raising prices so that ceiling would continue to be raised every year and become just like the debt ceiling.

And then a couple of years later...if any politician dares to say "enough"???
Well then you'll have the usual suspects in the media and right here on GFY denouncing them and crying over all the people who will lose "their" healthcare (even though they didn't pay for it in the first place).

I agree with your thinking. But I don't believe for one second that the Federal Govt. corrupt politicians and bureaucrats are going to allow any opportunity to milk more money get past them.

Think about that for a second.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by CoolMikey

I think it's a pipe dream that "single payer" will miraculously lower costs. What most likely will happen is that simply, instead of capitalists, government bureaucrats will get their turn to fuck the populace. So same shit, just different group will be benefiting.

Exactly. You are 100% correct.
We were sold that same pipe dream with ObamaCare just a few years ago.

So the govt. fucks everything up really bad. What's the answer? Double down on it of course!

WTF?
Do people never learn their lessons?

[kane]

Originally Posted by Robbie

That's an excellent idea.
And here in the real world it would work.

But in Washington D.C.???
Think about it.

For instance...talking about "ceilings" being set...Congress expressly passed a law creating a DEBT CEILING for the U.S. debt.
That law was designed to keep the govt. from going too far into debt. And it was a great law. Contractors with the U.S. Govt. would have had to negotiate pricing within the confines of the "ceiling".

But of course...the corrupt politicians NEXT move was to amend the debt ceiling law to allow them to RAISE the damn thing.

So now, every year...it is historically routine to raise the debt ceiling.
And if anybody DARES to argue against it??? They are condemned by the media as wanting to "shut down the govt." (which we all know doesn't really happen...it's just more "washington-speak")

My thinking is...that the lobbyists would very quickly make sure that there was a mechanism for Congress to raise the "ceiling" on healthcare spending.

And the big medical corporations would make damn sure to keep raising prices so that ceiling would continue to be raised every year and become just like the debt ceiling.

And then a couple of years later...if any politician dares to say "enough"???
Well then you'll have the usual suspects in the media and right here on GFY denouncing them and crying over all the people who will lose "their" healthcare (even though they didn't pay for it in the first place).

I agree with your thinking. But I don't believe for one second that the Federal Govt. corrupt politicians and bureaucrats are going to allow any opportunity to milk more money get past them.

Think about that for a second.

The things you list here among others including how we are going to get the money to pay for all of this are just some of the reasons getting a single payer system going is going to be a long and difficult project.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by GspotProductions

oh that´s not all that´s come out today...


laying off jobs at the carrier plant begin next month &...

wait for it...

ford aren´t moving to Mexico, only China like, well done Trump, you idiot

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...p-carrier-jobs


Seriously, Dirty Don needs to be removed from presidency before America realise it´s too late

So the jobs still moved out of the US. Which is something Trump said he would stop and Clinton said nothing. Because she's been in government for 30 years while those jobs were leaving.

And somehow you only blame Trump for this and think his removal will stop it.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

From Claymore County, Oklahoma -- SOLID Trump territory;

HHC monitors potential delay of Medicaid payments | News | claremoreprogress.com



Got your one-way ticket on the Trump Train to hell -- enjoy your ride ...
Good luck to the winners ... tick-tock, tick-tock

There's only one solution. Pay more taxes.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Robbie

I wonder if costs will go down at nursing homes if the money available to them from the govt. Is less?
Seems like anything that has access to the govt. and it's massive funding mysteriously skyrockets in its pricing (education & health care for instance)
I wonder if all these nursing homes will just be empty OR will they magically find a way to keep taking money from the govt. at a reduced rate.
I think we all know the answer to that.

First they will conduct a fear campaign to try and get sheeple to be "outraged".
And then if that doesn't work, they will simply adjust their pricing to whatever the govt. gives them.

The CEO's of the corporations who really run the nursing homes will be forced to buy one less yacht and maybe pay for one less mistress to have a fancy apartment.

And then in a few years when a Democrat gets back in power they can get back to the corruption and "business as usual" again.

So why isn't US public healthcare and education cheaper than going private?

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by TampaToker

Trump needs to shut the fuck up about health care and let Obama care die. Government has no business in the healthcare none at all. Once there is a entitlement it is almost impossible to roll back.

The government has every right to be in healthcare. Unless you want to pay even more or die before your time.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Just like Obama supported ObamaCare...even though he knew the math didn't add up.

The problem with Obamacare is it failed to address the core problem. Healthcare in the hands of the private sector.



The blue ones are all in the public sector.

Replies like this prove that many in the US have been brainwashed into thinking that the private sector can be better trusted to supply services like healthcare, education, etc. When the proof shows the opposite. Even with staff earning more there is no reason why it costs more in the US than it is in the private sector.

As for CEOs having one less yacht or one less mistress. The people who run public sector healthcare have neither.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Robbie

How do you figure the "cost would be less"?

Because it does and the proof is everywhere.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

I can afford $20K for an appendectomy. Sorry, you can't.
I wouldn't be happy about it. I had minor elbow nerve canal surgery -- was released the same day $7,400 was the price discounted contract with insurance.
I don't have a real problem with a high deductible -- within reason.
If you need major surgery or some longer term treatment like for cancer -- that can cost over $1 million. Insurance is paying a premium for risk transfer. The risks cost what they do.

If you can buy into Medicare early -- it costs like $425 /mo Dialysis patients, SSI disability. The same coverage on the private market would cost me $700 - $800 /mo with the same deductibles -- that how I know it would cost less.

Miraculously, the same prescription drugs I have to take daily dropped from $1,450 to $600/yr -- same type meds over 3 years -- combination of ACA and off-patent generics.

Since 2008 I've had cancer treatment and continual monitoring. Now I have 40% kidney function and will need dialysis in the future, then a bypass and maybe a kidney transplant. The cost to me. I paid for healthcare all my life to the government so it's now free at the point of delivery.

Up until 2008, I paid a percentage of my income every week so that when the shit hit the fan I was not charged horrendous prices.

The same has to be done for nursing care. Pay a small percentage of your income so when you get old you can be cared for and not have to break into your savings. Or get the young to pay.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Exactly. You are 100% correct.
We were sold that same pipe dream with ObamaCare just a few years ago.

So the govt. fucks everything up really bad. What's the answer? Double down on it of course!

WTF?
Do people never learn their lessons?

What's the answer?

There are three. As more people become poorer and unable to afford US healthcare, they die earlier. As more people become poorer and unable to afford US healthcare, the US adopts the proven system of National Healthcare. As more people become poorer and unable to afford US healthcare, you pay more and more.

Because the facts are clear that under successive governments most people are getting poorer.

How much have you put away for your old age?

[pimpmaster9000]

health insurance as a concept should be outlawed....you should not have to pay health/water/air insurance at all...in my country it starts at $4/month but even at $4/month it should be illegal...the very concept of having to insure yourself against being fucked in the ass is ridiculous...

american: "you dont understand our healthcare is the best in the world blah blah"
me: SMACK! SMACK! SMACK!
american: "we are speacial blah blah"
me: SMACK! SMACK! SMACK!
american: "yes I feel better now"

[Barry-xlovecam]

Paying more taxes does not lower heathcare costs.

Costs can only be lowered by finding where the waste is -- and doing something about it.

The number #1 waste of money is in how healthcare is delivered in the USA: In an adversarial way with monetary interests being the prime driver. The uninsured get healthcare too late and influence the delivery costs and outcomes disproportionately negatively. There are too many medical errors made -- competence is lacking in well paid healthcare (no answer here ).

Universal healthcare with easy access to doctor visits and early treatment will cut a lot of excessive costs out. Not using the hospital ER room for non traumatic treatment situations will lower costs. Hospital ER rooms are the most expensive 'immediate care' situations. There should be walk in 24 hr immediate care in dense urban areas. Even if it is a skeleton staff after midnight a child with a fever or a minor laceration can be tended to.

New taxes to support a failing system will only make things worse.

Paul -- go someplace reputable for charts How does U.S. life expectancy compare to other countries? - Peterson-Kaiser Health System Tracker















Forced insurance for all taxpayers and providing the working poor with insurance IS WORKING toward healthcare accessibility but it is only increasing accessibility into a dysfunctional health delivery system. The core problems are not being addressed -- we just apply band-aids and throw more money at the problem hoping it will go away. New spending or cutting spending will not fix the deficiencies in the system.

This is why Obamacare is a fail and Trumpcare will be a fail if ever enacted. We refuse to disrupt and reorient the whole healthcare delivery system so it works best for EVERYONE.

[CoolMikey]

How is it that since the beginning of time humans prospered without health insurance and without any government involvement in healthcare, but past couple of decades it somehow became "obvious" and "the only" solution?

[CoolMikey]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

Universal healthcare with easy access to doctor visits and early treatment will cut a lot of excessive costs out. Not using the hospital ER room for non traumatic treatment situations will lower costs. Hospital ER rooms are the most expensive 'immediate care' situations. There should be walk in 24 hr immediate care in dense urban areas. Even if it is a skeleton staff after midnight a child with a fever or a minor laceration can be tended to.

You keep saying "will", but do you have ANY evidence that that has happened since ObamaCare? Clearly more people are insured now, so there should be some evidence of lowered costs?