Mr Pheer

50 kids in cages

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Mr Pheer

Oh this is classic

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...36237881847808

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Phoenix

Not going to say i agree with you but yes. High level officials set an example for kids.

Clinton was not impeached because of the blowjob...he was impeached because he lied about it

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MFCT

Did I just read that right? Trump is going to keep the families together after all???

That is the single most hateful, racist executive order I've ever heard in my entire life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Do you need any more proof that Trump is a racist?

If Hillary had been allowed to rightfully win the presidential race (THANKS RUSSIA COLLUSION), we would not ever have to endure the evil of those families, against their will, kicking and screaming, being forced by executive order to stay together. Hillary, please get in the white house and keep those families apart!!!

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xClips Jim

Regardless of how someone might feel about this plan, it IS a plan and has worked perfectly so far. Just think about what has factually happened, regardless of your stance on either side:

1.) Even though they didn't create the laws on this issue, President Trump and Jeff Sessions announced the enforcement of them. What is the legal issue?: Family separation.

2.) If that is the issue and if it's a big one, what does it tell you? Entire families are crossing the border illegally. Who does this matter to?

3.) What did Trump turn the entire Democratic party into with this issue? Extremely vocal supporters of illegal immigration. What was his primary campaign issue?

4.) Did the Left look rational while defending illegal immigration? Did they seem concerned for AMERICANS? Or did they look a lot like Peter Fonda?



5.) Trump Derangement Syndrome attacks the part of the brain that doesn't allow you to see how he's roping you in to VERY problematic voting issues for Democrats.

Blue wave on this? Keep dreaming.

Rochard

So here we are twenty-four hours later....

Trump, who said he couldn't fix this, signed an executive order that... Only made things worse. The kids currently separated from their parents, well, fuck them, they remain separated. Moving forward, children will be detained with their parents... in Jail. Of course, because the Justice Department is run by Jeff Sessions, it never occurred to anyone in the White House that this comes into conflict with the 1996 law President Clinton signed, and the resulting "Flores Settlement" Supreme Court Judgement which states "place each detained minor in the least restrictive setting appropriate" - meaning not jail. I believe it's also a legal requirement that children not be held more than twenty days, and in most cases we are way past that.

Dunno.

The problem with the White House and the Trump administration is that they are doing all of this without any planning at all. They want to prosecute EVERYONE who comes to the United States illegally. That's a great idea, but they didn't think it through. Every month the United States arrests and deports from 40k to 70k people (or more). Normally we deport them as quickly as possible because it's expensive to detain, house, and feed tens of thousands of people. So now the Trump Administration wants to prosecute all of these people, which means pushing through the court system. They might not be Americans, but this is in fact America, and people here have rights - even when they are not American and illegally in the country. So now we need attorneys to prosecute them, plus other attorneys to represent them.... Again, keep in mind we are talking about - at a minimum - tens of thousands of people. (Some months the US arrests deports over 100k people!) Now the immigration court system is instantly backed up, and we have tens of thousands of people waiting for court dates. We have to detain them, house them, feed them, give them clothes, and give them - lol - free healthcare.

Then imagine the lawsuits that will come out of all of this.

There is a reason in the past we deport them as quickly as possible - it's fucking too expensive to do anything else.

The Justice Department put out the call last night for the US military to house these people. Because, you know, we want the US military involved in detaining civilians. You already know that isn't going to work out well - lawsuits will fly, someone will die in custody, some child will be molested, someone will get hurt.... The Trump Administration isn't thinking about this at all.

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xClips Jim

Nope, not anymore. The thinking has been done.

Now they are showing the electorate WHO wants WHAT?

If the Left believes that this is a winner for them - by all means, continue.

Personally, I think you are being set up.

Rochard

No, there has been no thinking at all.

The Justice Department just told the military to be prepared to house twenty thousand children. No thinking or planning at all. None.

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xClips Jim

crockett

Yet 20 years later we have a POTUS who can't stop lying..

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Tasty1

Maybe Trump should wait a few more weeks and keep children in cages. With all the world wide media attention you would think that people won't take the risk of losing their children anymore by smugling them. Wasn't that the whole idea?

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Bladewire

Asking for asylum legally is not "smuggling" their children

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brassmonkey

should be an international crime. taking a kid to the commission of a crime. sentence served in home country.

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kane

Agreed.

It matters to pretty much every American and those trying to enter this country.

Wrong. While there are a few extremist on the left who advocate for open borders, most Democrats want a sensible immigration policy. Just because a person doesn't agree with someone's (Trump's) solution to a problem doesn't mean that they want the problem to exist. It means they want a better answer.

Peter Fonda is about as far to the left as you can get. It is like listening to someone like Alex Jones and then assuming everyone on the right agrees with him. They don't. Fonda is an asshole and an idiot. Democrats are no defending illegal immigration. Just because Trump and the right says it, doesn't mean it is factual, obviously.

Trump is playing the culture war nicely. He is firing up his base. I personally think he is also firing up the Democrats. They hate him more today than they did when he took office. The more he prods them, the more they will want to turn out in November.

With midterms it is always about turnout and the elections are locally focused so they can change dramatically from district to district. While I agree some on the left have a form of Trump Derangement Syndrome, so do some on the right. They support him no matter what he says, no matter what he does, no matter what he suggests. Following Trump blinding just because he is pissing off liberals and that makes them happy is not a smart way to behave.

Personally, I think there will be a blue wave and the Democrats will take the house back. I guess we will see.

xClips Jim

You and I know that - but is that being discussed in general? Is that the immigration theme you are seeing Democrats are going to run on?

What I see in general is hysteria more than common sense but I'm open to being shown another Democrat side that has real traction like the "Trump is Hitler" side.

Yes, I know that as well. It's not really the comments from Peter Fonda that are amazing to me - it's the response.

I'm sure you are correct.

How do you suppose independents feel about this issue?

xClips Jim

Sorry, I skipped this part.

We will see in November for sure - and I am looking for any evidence of plans to take care of people like you with medical issues. I can't help believing you are not forgotten - it wouldn't and doesn't jibe with everything else he's doing.

Blue wave, hmmm? Just don't see it.

Minnesotans have voted for Democratic presidential candidates ever since 1976, more times consecutively than any other state outside of the south, and longer than any state.

This was in Minnesota last night with thousands more outside not able to get in.

kane

Personally, I don't take turnout to a Trump rally as any indication of how Democrats will do in November. I feel this way for a couple of reasons. First, the midterms are all local and state elections. Trump can and likely will have some endorsement power in places where he is very popular just like someone like Biden or Sanders will in very left leaning areas. Trump has that cult of personality thing down pat and his supporters like to come hear him talk. Obama was packing venues right before the Democrats got their asses kicked in 2010. Which brings me to reason two, 2010. Republicans had no platform. They had no position on issues and not much in the way of organization in 2010. They had just gotten their asses kicked in 2008 and the party was fractured and having trouble even finding common ground. Their only real position that they all agreed on was obstructing Obama and stopping Obamacare. Obama was hovering around a 50% approval rating and the Republicans still flipped 63 seats to take back the House.

Trump's approval rating is lower (although there are still a few months until the election), the Democrats actually gained seats in the House and Senate in 2016, they have been doing well in the special election, and the left hates Trump just as much as the right hated Obama.

To me it will come down to young voters. If they stay home again or again vote for third party candidates, it could get interesting. If they turn out and vote, I think the Dems will flip the House.

xClips Jim

You think the youngsters will matter in this one, huh? I haven't been seeing that - for sure 2020 they will be a heavy, determining factor.

Pleasure "talking" with you, as always.

kane

There were some interesting articles I read over the last handful of months that did a voter data breakdown of states that Trump won that people weren't expecting him to win. In a few of those states it was very interesting. When you looked at the numbers from the previous election in 2012 with Romney and Obama and compared them to Trump/Hillary, you see that Trump did about as well as Romney did across the board with a few more blue collar workers voting for him than Romney. The big differences, however, was with young voters. They turned out in droves for Obama but not Hillary. Interestingly enough, independent candidates in those states did a hell of a lot better than before and they did very well with young voters.

The idea is that young voters didn't like either candidate so many of them either didn't vote or voted for 3rd party candidates out of spite. I find myself wondering if that will happen again in November or if those young voters, most of whom hate Trump, will decide to turn out and vote. My guess is that they have now seen Trump in action so it is no longer speculation and they don't like what they see so they will turn out and vote.

xClips Jim

I used to think that - now I don't.

Damn, I wish we could fast forward the clock.

Rochard

The Democrats don't see to have a front runner. I honestly cannot name a single Democrat I would vote for if they ran for President.

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crockett

Trump creates problem and is hero in minds of red hats. People fight back Trump starts taking tons of heat over it. Trump then "kinda" fixes the problem he created and blamed Democrats and red hats believe he is a hero..


Moral of the story.. Red Hats are fucking idiots..

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xClips Jim

kane

President is a very different story. The Democrats don't need a legit front runner until 2019 or even early 2020.

baddog

WTF did you think was going to happen? The borders would be opened and everyone could just flow in?

Jeez.

crockett

There is a bit of a problem in your Red Hat logic..

For the 50/50 argument to be valid, you have to have both sides being honest, but having slightly different perspectives on the argument.

The flaw in this logic is your side is outright lying on key parts of your argument. Example Trump blames this whole thing on Democrats just like he blame every problem. That is not true because we didn't have children being taken from their families prior to Trump starting that policy. This was 100% a Trump created issue as there wasn't this issue before Trump set the policy to be criminally charge everyone even if it was their 1st time or if they had kids with them.

You are basing your argument on absolute lies claiming Obama started it, which he did not. When Boarder Patrol under Obama was putting kids in cages, these kids were not with their parents, they crossed on their own. They were not separated from their parents. The families who came together were kept together.

Added to this, the kids or even adults were only kept in the detention pins for a few hours while they were being processed kinda like a holding cell at a jail. Trump is keeping them in these holding pins much longer.

So if we examine the actual facts of both positions we can show that your side is being dishonest at best but really just outright lying. Meaning the 50/50 argument is null and voided because your argument is based on lying.

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xClips Jim

No, there isn't.

You simply made up a bunch of things in your post and pretended I said them. Quote ME and I'll respond to your argument.

Also, that graphic is not an argument for 50-50 anything - you misunderstood it, which is hardly surprising.

Silver_Shamrock

Jesus Christ, dude, really?? This was all an idea to motivate the sycophantic base, hatched by Kelly and Miller, carried out by Sessions, with Trump's "well okay then" in April. Trump's administration leaked all the horrible info because they themselves saw how fucking terrible it was going. He created the mess, blamed it on Democrats claiming only Congress could fix it, then after millions of angry people voiced their displeasure and the media exposed it all - he begrudgingly stopped it. Which could've been done all along - Just like Lindsay Graham went on camera and said: https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-ne...e9af3144b292cc

And Trump's supposed to be a goddamn hero now?? No. Fuck that. That isn't how the real world works. If you worked at a store as a manager and fucked up the experience of hundreds of your company's consumers, you'd be fired. Yet you're acting like Trump should get a parade for fucking up far worse.

Also, here's a lovely breakdown of the FACTS surrounding this issue.

Myth: This is not a new policy and was practiced under Obama and Clinton - FALSE. The policy to separate parents and children is new and was instituted on 4/6/2018. It was the brainchild of John Kelly and Stephen Miller to serve as a deterrent for undocumented immigration, approved by Trump, and adopted by Sessions. Prior administrations detained migrant families, but didn’t have a practice of forcibly separating parents from their children unless the adults were deemed unfit. https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-re...ce=govdelivery

Myth: This is the only way to deter undocumented immigration - FALSE. Annual trends show that arrests for undocumented entry are at a 46 year low, and undocumented crossings dropped in 2007, with a net loss (more people leaving than arriving). Deportations have increased steadily though (spiking in 1996 and more recently), because several laws that were passed since 1996 have made it legally more difficult to gain legal status for people already here, and thus increased their deportations (I address this later under the myth that it's the Democrats' fault). What we mostly have now are people crossing the border illegally because they've already been hired by a US company, or because they are seeking political asylum. Economic migrants come to this country because our country has kept the demand going. But again, many of these people impacted by Trump's "zero tolerance" policy appear to be political asylum-seekers. https://www.npr.org/2017/12/05/56854...it-46-year-low

Myth: Most of the people coming across the border are just trying to take advantage of our country by taking our jobs - FALSE. Most of the parents who have been impacted by Trump's "zero tolerance" policy have presented themselves as political asylum-seekers at a U.S. port-of-entry, from El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras. Rather than processing their claims, they have been taken into custody on the spot and had their children ripped from their arms. The ACLU alleges that this practice violates the Asylum Act, and the UN asserts that it violates the UN Treaty on the State of Refugees, one of the few treaties the US has ratified. This is an illegal act on the part of the United States government, not to mention morally and ethically reprehensible. https://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/21/u...ant-labor.html

Myth: We're a country that respects the Rule of Law, and if people break the law, this is what they get - FALSE. We are a country that has an above-ground system of immigration and an underground system. Our government (under both parties) has always been aware that US companies recruit workers in the poorest parts of Mexico for cheap labor, and ICE (and its predecessor INS) has looked the other way because this underground economy benefits our country to the tune of billions of dollars annually. Thus, even though the majority of people crossing the border now are asylum-seekers, those who are economic migrants (migrant workers) likely have been recruited here to do jobs Americans will not do. https://www.upi.com/Top_News/Opinion...2621477498203/

Myth: The children have to be separated from their parents because there parents must be arrested and it would be cruel to put children in jail with their parents - FALSE. First, in the case of economic migrants crossing the border illegally, criminal prosecution has not been the legal norm, and families have been kept together at all cost. Also, crossing the border without documentation is a typically a misdemeanor not requiring arrest, but rather a civil proceeding. Additionally, parents who have been detained have historically been detained with their children in ICE "family residential centers," again, for civil processing. The Trump administration's shift in policy is for political purposes only, not legal ones. See p. 18: https://www.aclu.org/legal-document/...dismiss-doc-56

Myth: We have rampant fraud in our asylum process the proof of which is the significant increase we have in the number of people applying for asylum. FALSE. The increase in asylum seekers is a direct result of the increase in civil conflict and violence across the globe. While some people may believe that we shouldn't allow any refugees into our country because "it's not our problem," neither our current asylum law, nor our ideological foundation as a country support such an isolationist approach. There is very little evidence to support Sessions' claim that abuse of our asylum-seeking policies is rampant. Also, what Sessions failed to mention is that the majority of asylum seekers are from China, not South of the border. Here is a very fair and balanced assessment of his statements: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...em-fraudulent/

Myth: The Democrats caused this, "it's their law." FALSE. Neither the Republicans nor the Democrats caused this, the Trump administration did (although the Republicans could fix this today, and have refused). I believe what this myth refers to is the passage of the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act, which were both passed under Clinton in 1996. These laws essentially made unauthorized entry into the US a crime (typically a misdemeanor for first-time offenders), but under both Republicans and Democrats, these cases were handled through civil deportation proceedings, not a criminal proceeding, which did not require separation. And again, even in cases where detainment was required, families were always kept together in family residential centers, unless the parents were deemed unfit (as mentioned above). Thus, Trump's assertion that he hates this policy but has no choice but to separate the parents from their children, because the Democrats "gave us this law" is false and nothing more than propaganda designed to compel negotiation on bad policy. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a8401521.html

Myth: The parents and children will be reunited shortly, once the parents' court cases are finalized. FALSE. Criminal court is a vastly different beast than civil court proceedings. Also, the children are being processed as unaccompanied minors ("unaccompanied alien children"), which typically means they are sent into the custody of the Office of Refugee Resettlement (ORR), which is part of the Department of Health and Human Services (DHS). Under normal circumstances when a child enters the country without his or her parent, ORR attempts to locate a family member within a few weeks, and the child is then released to a family member, or if a family member cannot be located, the child is placed in a residential center (anywhere in the country), or in some cases, foster care. Prior to Trump's new policy, ORR was operating at 95% capacity, and they simply cannot effectively manage the influx of 2000+ children, some as young as 4 months. Also, keep in mind, these are not unaccompanied minor children, they have parents. There is great legal ambiguity on how and even whether the parents will get their children back because we are in uncharted territory right now. According to the ACLU lawsuit (see below), there is currently no easy vehicle for reuniting parents with their children. Additionally, according to a May 2018 report, numerous cases of verbal, physical and sexual abuse were found to have occurred in these residential centers. https://www.aclu.org/news/aclu-obtai...nts-us-custody

Myth: This policy is legal. LIKELY FALSE. The ACLU filed a lawsuit against the Trump administration on 5/6/18, and a recent court ruling denied the government's motion to dismiss the suit. The judge deciding the case stated that the Trump Administration policy is "brutal, offensive, and fails to comport with traditional notions of fair play and decency." The case is moving forward because it was deemed to have legal merit. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-proceed-judge

Look Chang

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tony286

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/wa...s-passed-1997/

Sorry it's usual trump bullshit it wasn't a law, it's another lie

crockett

get real.. you've been in these topics saying Obama did it for days now. It's like you believe you have no previous post history except your last post..

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crockett

Honestly, this is why all Trump supporters should be treated with disdain and treated as if they were Nazis. They are ok with racism, bigotry and taking kids from their parents with no regard of if or when they will be reunited.

These people should be treated like the pieces of shit they are. They are not worthy of common respect as they give none to others.

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Mr Pheer

^^ He's still mad because he was wrong about Trump becoming President

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Acepimp

^^ HAHAHAHAAHAAA What a hysterical libtard!!

2015: Mexican kids held for months as punishment for border-crossing

And who was president in 2015? Were you posting threads about it on a porn board? No? Why not??

The disastrous, forgotten 1996 law that created today's immigration problem

And who was president in 1996? Were you outraged about this then?

Meanwhile, TODAY: Trump official: About 500 migrant kids reunited with families since May

But keep posting your hysterical nonsense, Crockette! It only hurts you leftards in the mid-terms

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Rochard

Where did I say this?

The Trump administration caused this problem, and in their attempt to fix it they just made it worse. With this new policy all we are doing is holding them longer until they go to court, finding them guilty, sentencing them to time served plus $10, and then sending them on their way. What is the point in this? It's just costing us more money and resources.

Why do ANY of this at all? Illegal immigration peaked in 2007 and has been declining since. The Trump administration is trying to fix a problem that is becoming less and less of a problem every year. It's just like the economy - the economy is buzzing along (Thanks Obama) but Trump is imposing tariffs all over the place for absolutely no reason.

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TampaToker

In the last 3 months there have been a total of 225,561 apprehensions on the southern border from Jan 1 2018 till May 1 2018 and no that is not a typo. Since Jan 2013 till May 31 2018 there has been 2,481,955 apprehensions at the southern border. But yeah there is no issues carry on as normal it only averages 45,112 a month wtf.

In FY 2018, the federal government is set to spend $3.076 billion on DHS custody operations, or $8.43 million per day on immigrant detention. Just think about that for one second. Mine and your tax dollars that we worked hard for is paying for these people who are coming here illegally. If you do not see a issue with that i do not know what to say to you.

ICE estimates an average stay of 44 days. "The DHS projects there will be an average of 51,379 people held in immigration detention centers each day in fiscal 2018, a sizable jump from the last few years, which have hovered near the low 30,000s"

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xClips Jim

Quote it.

crockett

Yet none of them would come if companies wernt willing to hire illegals.. Yet no anti illegal immigrant politicians nor Trump will go after companies who repeatedly hire illegals.

In fact Trump has been busted multiple times having illegals working on his job sites.

Meanwhile you clowns rant and rave because fox news tells you too.. Meanwhile they ate laughing at how easily you are duped.

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TheSquealer

More honesty, feigned outrage and moral superiority from the leftist media that now can only rely on crocketts for ad views.

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TheSquealer

This has to be the first time in the US that a political party is failing out of government because their own base has turned into hysterical and irrational 12 year old girls.

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beerptrol

The russian loving chumpanzee cultist are still out defending and deflecting.

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xClips Jim

PR_Glen

None of that was known to the public at the time.

That is a major difference and you know it. it's shameful to compare the two. If the public were as aware then they would be just as angry about it.

you need to stop it with the regurgitation of talking points. It waters down what you are saying as they are not your own thoughts they are other peoples who have fed them to you instead. Hillary Clinton has nothing to do with this.

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PR_Glen

how is this funny to you?

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dyna mo

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Rochard

On average, we arrest anywhere from 40k to 70k people per month. Oddly enough, since Trump's new "zero tolerance" policy, illegal immigration is up in the past three months.

This "zero tolerance" policy is not preventing people from coming here illegally, and only is going to cost us A LOT more money and resources.

Yes! Now that we have to detain them A LOT longer so we can "sentence them to time served and a $10 fine".... It going to make these illegals stay in the US much longer, and it's going to cost A LOT more money and effort.

There is no reason to do what we are doing. This "zero tolerance" policy is not stopping people from coming here, it's going to cause people to be here much longer, and it's going to cost us much more to house them longer, feed them longer, clothe them long, and give them free healthcare longer.

Arrest them and send them home immediately.

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Rochard

Everything about this is shameful.

We cannot discuss Kennedy; His affairs were not known by the general public.

We can surely discuss President Clinton. The conservatives were up in arms about this - they said he was unfit to serve as President, and how horrible it was for him to cheat on his wife.

But yet somehow when it comes to Trump it's perfectly acceptable. I personally don't give a shit who he is banging - if he is banging pornstars more power to him. I just don't understand how the conservative not only accepts this, but defends it. Someone on Facebook the other day told me there is "no proof" Trump was cheating on his wife.

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