Klen

There is so much fuss about these two PHP frameworks, yet i still do not see what is so special about them.

Did anyone wrote some code with them? Actual examples are usually better then documentation.

Tube Ace

I developed VendBits https://vendbits.com on Laravel which utilizes the Model-View-Controller (MVC), an architectural pattern that separates an application into three main logical components: the model, the view, and the controller.

blackmonsters

The most practical thing to do with Laravel is to burn it in a hole and run the other way.

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Tube Ace

So what other solutions do you suggest instead?

NoWhErE

I prefer to use Visual Basic for my programming needs.

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blackmonsters

If you like it then keep using it.
I don't want anything else to do with after using it to implement AgeID for clients.

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sarettah

QBASIC for the win.

.

Klen

I trying to understand here why it is so popular, hence asking question.

blackmonsters

Because like every "Framework" it's the easiest and the bestest and biggly fucking awesome and you don't need to know anything to use it.
People buy into that hype and resell it to another fool.

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Alphagamma666

because Laravel is like apple, it just fucking works. All other languages are about trends and the latest bs framework. JS ecosystem is a fucking mess. I don't about adult, but Laravel is a big money maker for shopify developers.

If you about your money, PHP is the shit.

Tube Ace

^ Exactly. Laravel is a robust system and makes web development using PHP enjoyable. It's currently on version 9. Taylor built a great product. The feeble minded can't comprehend how to use it properly and their dismissal of it shows their incompetence.

blackmonsters

Feeble minded programmers need frameworks.
The rest of us just pull up our own code libraries.

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blackmonsters

Codeigniter used to be hyped as the best

Top 10 Alternatives to CodeIgniter
Angular.
Laravel.
CakePHP.
Symfony.
Yii.
Slim Framework.
Phalcon.
Laminas Project (formerly Zend Framework)

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Tube Ace

What libraries have you made? Show me just one of your many marvels of software engineering.


Of course you have to google and copy/paste your weak ass reply.

Laravel dominates its competition for PHP/backend frameworks.

Tube Ace

Do you not know how to use Composer to import github repos?

https://github.com/AgeID/php-encryption-lib

Rebel D

https://inertiajs.com/partial-reloads

https://laracasts.com/series/build-m...ng-inertia-js/

https://jetstream.laravel.com/

Tube Ace

I love these timeline charts

baodb

Sounds like you develop code like its 1998, do you run them on PHP3?

Tube Ace

Nothing to see here, folks. Just bm embarrassing himself... again.

Tube Ace

Laravel's creator isn't doing too badly.

k0nr4d

The thing is that there's now ALOT of shit programmers that rely ENTIRELY on frameworks and can't do squat in PHP. I have run into tons when hiring where, if asked, cannot code anything from scratch. If you put them in front of clean php they look like a deer in front of headlights.

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blackmonsters

Please, stop telling the truth, it only makes people mad.

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Tube Ace

If you're building a house, would you buy standard lumber sizes from a store or chop down trees yourself?

k0nr4d

That's a really, really bad comparison man. We're talking more design your own house vs pre-fab. Symphony is still PHP, and still at it's core just wrapping php functions.

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Tube Ace

My point is, it's about standardization and rapid development/deployment. There's no point in re-inventing the wheel.

Yes, it's nice to be able to code as close to binary/machine languages, but it's not necessary for many people to develop those skills.

VladS

Oh here we go

IMHO it really depends on the project itself - both worlds have their pros and cons.

For example, MechBunny itself is like a little framework where we build a lot of sites on top of it - not neccesarily being tubes.

I like to code my own stuff from the ground up, however as Konrad's script takes care of 99% of a project requirements, i usually just use that and buiild / modify on top of it - the same it goes with frameworks - it gets the job done and also when we talking maintenance when you have a project built on a known framework, it is easier to change developers versus having some custom written code that would need rewritten most of the times

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Kittens

Are ya'll seriously arguing over a framework? looooool.

Use it or don't. Go find something more important to spend brain cycles on than to bitch about what someone else wants to use.

That being said, made a ton of money thanks to Laravel, but I haven't written PHP in almost a decade. Full stack JavaScript now, where I make a metric fuck ton more money.

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baodb

That is true but I don’t think it has anything to do with using frameworks or not, there is just a lot of incompetent idiots out there and by chance many will be programmers.

If someone comes to me and says he is better developing the application with whatever business logic it needs and all the basics like database connectors, variable sanitation, routing etc themselves I know for a fact that at best they will take 10x the time to get it done which is wasteful or at worst they will deliver unusable shit because they do not know what they do.

That is the big issue with developers, they all think they are smart and want to reinvent the wheel. I am a developer, I don’t know if I am overly smart or not but I know I do not have the time in my life to write every simple basic shit myself when there is frameworks doing it for me so I can focus on writing code that actually matters…

Colmike9

Laravel usually loads a bit faster than Symphony

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k0nr4d

I will not argue that there are ALOT of incompetant psuedo-developers, the salaries of which have been driven up like crazy by outsourcing companies to the point where someone with zero experience, zero knowledge of programming labels themselves a "programmer" and gets hired by them.

I will however point out that those that worked only in frameworks in my experience didn't even understand the basic fundamentals of web development. They didn't understand how to prevent against SQL injection, XSS, etc. They had at most a vague understanding that these things exist but not how to exploit them or prevent them. They are lacking a lot of knowledge that they should have but don't.

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baodb

I don't see this as a problem and rather the intention of frameworks. From a project management POV I do not want every developer to know about these topics in great detail. The security aspect of an application is within the scope of a dedicated security engineer, if you do not have one (which many projects/business do not have) that is the very point of using a framework which will safeguard against the biggest issues WITHOUT your developers having to understand and mitigate those risks themselves.

k0nr4d

Then we differ here because for me a developer should know as much as possible about what they are doing, otherwise they are just building shit out of lego blocks.

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baodb

Well there is not only one typ of developer right, I'd much rather work with one brilliant backend and have a great security engineer than have one guy who "knows as much as possible" but does nothing really well and takes ages to get any production code out of the door

Colmike9

For adult affiliate marketing, though, it doesn't matter that much. I try to make my sites look nice, but I try to get surfers off of my site and clicking on an ad/link asap. Let the sponsor finish the sale.
Regular PHP is fine for this, don't have to waste time being fancy for maybe a couple more conversions.

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plsureking

every open source package has exploits and is continuously being penetration assaulted.



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k0nr4d

If a corporate setting, sure. In Adult, most of the people involved here are singular webmasters. Even us, who produce code for a living for the adult industry, can't justify having a single separate guy handling JUST security stuff and it makes more sense for our staff to know about sql injection etc.

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machinegunkelly

Our team just built a robust multi-site CMS using the TALL stack, and it was incredibly powerful stack to use.

Laravel is fantastic, coupled with livewire we really pulled off something special, I'll be using this stack where ever I can from now on.

Hope you're doing Good Rebel D!

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blackmonsters

Tube Ace,

Webmasters will love your video embed script if you do it in Laravel, so do it.
They also need a multi cam feed site like Konrad's.

You should be able to crank those 2 scripts out in a week using Laravel.

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CurrentlySober

i lik lego

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Kittens

I have nothing but respect for you, but there's some glaring issues I'm noticing here.

You're wanting someone who can do the job of MANY people. Understandable, this is an interesting thing I learned after leaving adult. Nowhere else is this type of thing expected. People focus on a subset of the overall problem and make sure they do that thing great. In adult "I want someone who knows the database, deployment target, security, design marketing and anything else, and I want them to be flawless in all of it!!"

But you know what is the biggest problem? Nobody in this fucking industry wants to pay the cost of having someone like that. So what happens? They hire someone who talks out of their ass, get's screwed over because that person charged a low rate that satisfied this person and got left screwed over.

Not to toot my own horn but I spent a long fucking time learning and gaining those skills, thankfully they're in heavy demand outside of adult... But they pay for it.

If I got an email from an adult person wanting me to do all of that shit, I wouldn't even respond to the email without a non-refundable deposit of $50k.

You gonna pay 50k for that? Doubtful.

That being said, I'm a former heavy contributor to Laravel and the ecosystem and have built my own frameworks to get the understanding of everything, and can do almost anything at scale in PHP. But will I write 100% vanilla PHP?

That 50k price tag just went up to $200k.

Basically what I'm saying is, you get what you pay for, and frankly this industry is bottom of the barrel pricing, everyone thinks they know everything and the people "paying" think that their $1k for 400 hours of work is "generous". Real engineers would laugh in your face coming sideways at them like that shit.

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k0nr4d

I disagree man. Maybe in the corporate world, or in much larger mainstream projects it's the norm, but we don't go much further then segregating front end and backend developers. I simply have an expectation that a backend developer will at least know the basics of security. A good web dev should know at least a good bit about everything involved along the line. They should know how an httpd works, how browser headers work, etc. Otherwise they are just a mindless drone.

I'm not saying every programmer has to be a professional penetration tester, but to put it into a comparison - I would expect a car mechanic to know how a transmission works but wouldn't necessarily expect a normal mechanic to be able to rebuild one.

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plsureking

yea adult sites are small projects. even one with a network of sites, member/transaction management, streaming video, a cdn, and a backend to manage it is a small project.

budgets are small too.

there's a few big projects with big teams, but that's pretty rare.

this reality is well understood by those who spent their career (20+ years) developing for the adult industry. we're usually the sole team member on most projects.

developers who spent their whole career in adult usually know the entire stack top to bottom and sideways. we know many different packages and built our own. there's at least a couple dozen of us here at gfy.

#

"real engineers"

yea we're just smut peddlers

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k0nr4d

Very well put. We aren't working for Google. We don't have the luxury of a $45mil budget to make a paysite so we can hire a separate senior developer to handle the pressing of each individual letter on a group keyboard. We have to know everything about everything, top to fucking bottom, from how the webserver is configured to how the db is configured to how the postbacks from specific billers work because the budgets don't usually allow or require dozens of people working on a single site.

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Kittens

I didn't say you had to hire 3000 engineers to build a porn site. I said you want someone who does the work of 10 people but want to pay them chump change for it.

No wonder ya'll get fucking scammed so much.

But hey, if you can't afford it, you can't afford it.

I am not google, but I still budget about $20k/mo just for engineering on my products.

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plsureking

i don't make any budgets. the clients make the budgets. am i going to tell them i can't work for them because someone on gfy spends more?

i have clients who think $49 a month for a hosted cms is a lot. i also have clients who spend a lot more (and make a lot more).

if you want to be a service provider in adult, you can't have your nose up in the air.

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baodb

But then once again you're just wasting your time with that mindset. I don't need to know every bit top to fucking bottom when I can just pay AWS 5 dollars a month to do my webserver and database? I mean its just ridiculous to want to handle all parts of engineering, security and devops in one person. If you think you do all of that and you do a good job at it you're, no offence, delusional.

Kittens

Actually yes you can. And I do it all the time. I just left a $200k/yr job because I didn't like the tone VPoE had in a slack DM.

I mean sure if you are in financial need then that's different, but we're not talking about someone taking a $120 coding job because it's better than nothing and they have rent to pay soon.

But anyway, this mentality of "I shouldn't pay for a service based on market rates because I'm cheap" is pretty unique to this industry only.

So I guess, enjoy working for $15/hr programming my guy. I'll enjoy sitting on the beach in the Bahama's for a week with a fruity drink in my hand knowing that I don't have to worry or be hunched over my desk for 23.5hr a day coding to make ends meet.

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VladS

We're years behind tech wise compared to mainstream and that's a fact. There are exceptions, but those are rare.

The problem is that ok, we get to the "jack of all trades, master of none" idea, but you do really need to have a global understanding of how everything works in order to be a good dev and i do agree that the ideal is to have a dedicated team and delegate tasks, however that really does not happen in adult and 99% of the time it's design (HTML, CSS) part and the backend (coding) part and that's that.

Also the saying "porn pays more for coding" is false, the coding costs are a joke compared to mainstream - we charge 2-3K for a paysite (design, coding, setup, custom features, billers, etc...) - basically everything A to Z from the ground up - and that's considered expensive.

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Kittens

I paid $2k for a template in stock Tailwind CSS that I ended up not using... 2-3K budget for all that in a mainstream environment would get you laughed at by everyone but the $5/hr coder on Upwork bidding on your project at bottom of the barrel prices.

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blackmonsters

The guy has been doing exactly that for 20 years and thousands of websites/paysites use his software.
I have never seen a post on here that his software was hacked, slow, or bad.

You are delusional to call him delusion of about the last 20 years of his life.

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