Fuck The Tubes.....

[DeanCapture]

I was chatting with a client the other day and we were discussing illegal tubes....

Seems to me that the only way to really work around the tubes and still make money is to offer your members the kinds of products that they can't get from tubes. Tubes sites are only stealing your videos right now.....so how about offering products in your site that the tubes sites have no interest in stealing?

Since I started thinking about this, I have come up with several very unique product ideas for a paysite that I think would keep members coming back month after month. Yes they may still visit the tubes but these products are not offered at tube sites and would only be available from a paysite.

To make money as long as tubes are stealing your videos....you have to get away from thinking that videos are your MAIN product. Yes videos are important and that's exactly why tubes are stealing them. But if video is only a part of what you offer, you stand a better chance of surviving the tubes.

I think the future for paysites is good as long as the folks running them keep in mind that customers want quality and they want new and innovative product. Beautiful HD video is great but should only be a small part of your overall offerings.

[AaronM]

Or, people could start protecting their content.




Oh wait...Thieves don't like that.

My bad.

[KillerK]

adapt or die!

err Skate or Die!

[Tippy]

Is there a way to protect your content that cant be undone or cracked? They seem to have programs to crack/hack just about anything. If software doesnt exist its only a matter of time before it does.

[seeandsee]

illegal tubes KillerK

[tony286]

First off I liked Talk to you later and White punks on dope. So maybe their later stuff was off the mark but there is no reason to say fuck them. lol
Dean what are you going sell your members sex toys that you cant send to so many places. The key will be tighten down your content so it cant get stolen and then if it does have a company like remove your content to deal with it. Video becomes not the thing we are selling your rate goes down dramatically. lol

[DeanCapture]

Originally Posted by Tippy

Is there a way to protect your content that cant be undone or cracked? They seem to have programs to crack/hack just about anything. If software doesnt exist its only a matter of time before it does.

True. Protecting your content is a step in the right direction but it's not a cure all. There will always be some folks who'll figure out how to crack the protection. It certainly doesn't hurt to protect your content though

[Ethersync]

Originally Posted by KillerK

adapt or die!

[DeanCapture]

Originally Posted by tony404

Dean what are you going sell your members sex toys that you cant send to so many places.

Your not thinking outside of the box Tony

The key will be tighten down your content so it cant get stolen and then if it does have a company like remove your content to deal with it.

I don't think any kind of protecting would keep people from stealing it if they really want it. It may make it inconvenient and maybe that's part of the solution but there will always be someone who'll be able to figure out how to steal it.

Video becomes not the thing we are selling your rate goes down dramatically. lol

Video should always be part of what your selling....just not the only important part. If the only good thing you have to offer your members is video...and the tubes are out there stealing your video, well....your days are numbered IMO.

[Shap]

Originally Posted by AaronM

Or, people could start protecting their content.

Oh wait...Thieves don't like that.

My bad.

Hi Aaron I've seen you post many times that people should protect their content. How do you propose doing that? DRM is not an option. So how can one protect their content?

[who]

So what will you offer, monthly 2 gb flash drives mailed out to members with fresh content?

[AaronM]

Originally Posted by Shap

Hi Aaron I've seen you post many times that people should protect their content. How do you propose doing that? DRM is not an option. So how can one protect their content?

If DRM is not an option then how come I have been using it for several years and I've NEVER seen my content where it doesn't belong?

Sure, DRM can be cracked....But that doesn't mean it should not be used to reduce theft.

[tony286]

Originally Posted by DeanCapture

Your not thinking outside of the box Tony



I don't think any kind of protecting would keep people from stealing it if they really want it. It may make it inconvenient and maybe that's part of the solution but there will always be someone who'll be able to figure out how to steal it.



Video should always be part of what your selling....just not the only important part. If the only good thing you have to offer your members is video...and the tubes are out there stealing your video, well....your days are numbered IMO.

I disagree if you are giving them what they want in a niche it works. If its vanilla stuff then its going to be hard. We are such a fucked up industry, instead of dealing with the theft. We try to go around it or with it. People watch how timid we are as a industry and they will take something else and we will bendover some more and talk about how its the future. Sorry basic business principles dont change. Remember the last time the rules werent meant for a industry, it was called the internet bust.

[tony286]

Originally Posted by AaronM

If DRM is not an option then how come I have been using it for several years and I've NEVER seen my content where it doesn't belong?

Sure, DRM can be cracked....But that doesn't mean it should not be used to reduce theft.

I have to look at it. Its like I had a boss who used to say locks keep honest people honest.

[Shap]

Originally Posted by AaronM

If DRM is not an option then how come I have been using it for several years and I've NEVER seen my content where it doesn't belong?

Sure, DRM can be cracked....But that doesn't mean it should not be used to reduce theft.

DRM is not an option. Members want absolutely nothing to do with DRM. I'm in the business of building and delivering the best product for my members. Using DRM does not allow me to do that.

[XXXMovie4M]

so if you had a store that kept getting broken into would the solution be to stop offering products that thieves want to steal?

[SoloGirlsContent]

HD video is NOT the answer..if a guy wants to jack off..he's not too concerned with sharper quality of the video if his bank account is at $15..and now most guys have a low bank account. SO folks if you're shooting the same B/g stuff all the tube sites love to steal..you in big fucking trouble..Agencies are blowing my phone up to hire girls. Production and updates are slowing the fuck down.

I'm staying alive because I've branched in the obscured fetish niches..weird stuff no tube site or webmasters would even think about...but the surfers are paying up directly to me for the stuff.

In this market, I don't give two shits how good ur shit looks..how glossy, how fancy, how much Hi def u got..if the content is the same damn thing we've seen for 10 years ( new porn girl gets fucked on new wave fuzzy couch..wow)..ur ass is getting fucked deep..good luck to you!

[DeanCapture]

Originally Posted by XXXMovie4M

so if you had a store that kept getting broken into would the solution be to stop offering products that thieves want to steal?

Who said anything about "stop offering products that thieves want to steal?" I didn't!

Here's a scenario for you. On one corner there is an adult video store. All they sell is adult videos and magazines. On the opposite corner there is another adult video store. They also sell adult video and magazines but they also sell toys, clothing, and a lot of other product. Not only that, they often have porn stars visit their store for autograph sessions. They have contests all the time and the winners get prizes and free services. They have a nice big parking lot for easy parking. They have a drive thru for returning your rented videos. Every Friday night if you rent 2 videos you get a free coupon to save a few dollars at PizzaHut. And they have lots and lots of other cool offerings for their customers. Now here's the thing...

If someone steals videos from the smaller store that only sells videos, they'll feel the crunch more then the other store who doesn't rely so much on only their video sales to pay their bills. It's called diversifying. If you only offer picture and video product in your members area and people are out there stealing all your shit, then it makes perfect sense to start offering more then pictures & videos so that your not relying solely on your pic & video content to keep your members around.

And no...I'm not talking about selling toys in your members area!

[wjxxx]

The solution is simple: lawsuit

[Varius]

Those saing DRM is not an answer or members want nothing to do with it, have you taken a look at it in the past years? It's come a long way and I don't see why sites shouldn't be using it. Many large mainstream sites use it without problems, so can you. I think many of you tried it back when it was in its infancy and never gave it a second look since.

Unless you get into very heavy encrypted DRM, yes any DRM can be cracked by the determined thief. But this is like saying "Hey, I know a super thief can beat my home alarm system, so I just won't bother having any alarm". Fact is, if you do use solid DRM, tube sites won't be bothered to go hard after your stuff when there are hundreds of other sites not protected and much less work to steal from.

[gideongallery]

Originally Posted by DeanCapture

Who said anything about "stop offering products that thieves want to steal?" I didn't!

Here's a scenario for you. On one corner there is an adult video store. All they sell is adult videos and magazines. On the opposite corner there is another adult video store. They also sell adult video and magazines but they also sell toys, clothing, and a lot of other product. Not only that, they often have porn stars visit their store for autograph sessions. They have contests all the time and the winners get prizes and free services. They have a nice big parking lot for easy parking. They have a drive thru for returning your rented videos. Every Friday night if you rent 2 videos you get a free coupon to save a few dollars at PizzaHut. And they have lots and lots of other cool offerings for their customers. Now here's the thing...

If someone steals videos from the smaller store that only sells videos, they'll feel the crunch more then the other store who doesn't rely so much on only their video sales to pay their bills. It's called diversifying. If you only offer picture and video product in your members area and people are out there stealing all your shit, then it makes perfect sense to start offering more then pictures & videos so that your not relying solely on your pic & video content to keep your members around.

And no...I'm not talking about selling toys in your members area!

process monitization

all though this is a very very small part of that concept.

Good to see someone is getting a little bit of this big picture.

[BVF]

Originally Posted by DeanCapture

I was chatting with a client the other day and we were discussing illegal tubes....

Seems to me that the only way to really work around the tubes and still make money is to offer your members the kinds of products that they can't get from tubes. Tubes sites are only stealing your videos right now.....so how about offering products in your site that the tubes sites have no interest in stealing?

Since I started thinking about this, I have come up with several very unique product ideas for a paysite that I think would keep members coming back month after month. Yes they may still visit the tubes but these products are not offered at tube sites and would only be available from a paysite.

To make money as long as tubes are stealing your videos....you have to get away from thinking that videos are your MAIN product. Yes videos are important and that's exactly why tubes are stealing them. But if video is only a part of what you offer, you stand a better chance of surviving the tubes.

I think the future for paysites is good as long as the folks running them keep in mind that customers want quality and they want new and innovative product. Beautiful HD video is great but should only be a small part of your overall offerings.

Come back and give your opinion after you have ACTUALLY run a paysite.

[BAKO]

Originally Posted by who

So what will you offer, monthly 2 gb flash drives mailed out to members with fresh content?

[Jim_Gunn]

The old school DRM sucks but some people here on the forum have been having success with the encrypted streaming with flash and those are very difficult to capture. It is well worth checking into along with the Remove Your Content service to keep a handle on your content.

[BAKO]

Here is a good one, Lease my feeds

www.worldwidefeeds.com

[DeanCapture]

Originally Posted by BVF

Come back and give your opinion after you have ACTUALLY run a paysite.

Why are you such a prick all the time? Do me a favor, keep your fucking black mouth shut if you don't have anything nice to say to me.

[Shap]

Ok I'm not trying to be a dick to anyone here. But here is an important question.

Name one TOP TIER site that uses DRM.

[Shap]

Not only did Apple drop DRM recently they also are recommending all record labels do the same. I'm sure they are doing that because DRM rocks and the end user really loves it.

[Shap]

Btw I'm just debating the side of those who do not use DRM. I hope none of you take it as a personal attack. I'm just debating the To DRM or Not to DRM argument.

[DeanCapture]

Originally Posted by Shap

Btw I'm just debating the side of those who do not use DRM. I hope none of you take it as a personal attack. I'm just debating the To DRM or Not to DRM argument.

Interesting. I'd love to see some BIG sites that use DRM as well, adult and/or mainstream.

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

What about Flash Streaming? Embed it?

You can still get great resolution if not awesome resolution if you encode and stream it.
Guess people could run a full screen capture sure but it would still be a pain in the ass and look 2nd hand.

[Shap]

Originally Posted by DeanCapture

Interesting. I'd love to see some BIG sites that use DRM as well, adult and/or mainstream.

Yeah. I may be wrong but I'm 95% sure not a single large paysite is using DRM.

[Shap]

Originally Posted by AlienQ

What about Flash Streaming? Embed it?

You can still get great resolution if not awesome resolution if you encode and stream it.
Guess people could run a full screen capture sure but it would still be a pain in the ass and look 2nd hand.

I love Flash Streaming. We've discussed it with our members and Flash is still 3rd on their preferred format list. I think a large part of that is a lot of Members like to take the content and watch it on their big TVs

[duff]

Originally Posted by DeanCapture

Interesting. I'd love to see some BIG sites that use DRM as well, adult and/or mainstream.

I can't say with absolute certainty (because I'm in Canada and they block us). But, doesn't NBC protect the shows that they stream over the web? I'm always seeing ads to "Watch it again at NBC.com". Surely they have some kind of protection?

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Originally Posted by Shap

I love Flash Streaming. We've discussed it with our members and Flash is still 3rd on their preferred format list. I think a large part of that is a lot of Members like to take the content and watch it on their big TVs

Sell them CDs to LOL but then they can get ripped and yer back at square one. Just offer older content on DIsc or move older content to download and the freshest newest stuff in flash streaming WHo knows just throwing it out there

[Shap]

Originally Posted by duff

I can't say with absolute certainty (because I'm in Canada and they block us). But, doesn't NBC protect the shows that they stream over the web? I'm always seeing ads to "Watch it again at NBC.com". Surely they have some kind of protection?

The problem with comparing to mainstream is, from what I've read, most of them are not having any success online. The music industry, for example, is screwed. I've yet to hear of anyone reporting huge success broadcasting content online. So DRM or not the $$$ and profit are not rolling in. In fact if you research deeper you'll see many people seem to agree that if the Music industry would have listened to their users demands and requests they'd be less screwed today.

There is a constant push towards things becoming free. It happens in most industries. It's happening in ours. When the push accelerates towards free the answer isn't to limit what you offer but instead to increase what you offer and live with the new profit margins that emerge. That is exactly the situation our industry is in right now.

[Shap]

If you are serious about this business and about your future in it read this article.
http://www.wired.com/techbiz/it/magazine/16-03/ff_free

You can deny things all you want however if you sit down and read this article and then think about our industry you'll see where things are headed. The key is what you do with that information and how you plan and build your future.

[mynameisjim]

Originally Posted by Shap

Not only did Apple drop DRM recently they also are recommending all record labels do the same. I'm sure they are doing that because DRM rocks and the end user really loves it.

They are dropping DRM on on items that cost .99 cents. Actually less because they are dropping the price to .89 or less. I don't see them doing that with their TV shows or movies which would be a more apt analogy to the adult business.

A combo of DRM and encrytped streaming could work very well. Look, all the networks are using encrypted streaming and seem to think it's safe. Hulu is using it as well and the studios are playing ball with them.

Encrypted streaming seems to be the way to go at this stage of the game. Sure, it can be cracked but it seems only by screen capture programs. Who is going to sit and capture 100's of hours of video that has to be playing on screen just to give it away on the torrents for free. I'm sure it's a much smaller number than those who just just use a site ripper that downloads in the background.

[BFT3K]

I think the idea of offering "unique" and "niche" content is just another redundant tube-related statement that everyone keeps repeating, like "adapt or die".

I can find almost ANYTHING in virtually ANY niche within 2 minutes, FOR FREE on a tube site. Do you think tubes are going to restrict the content they offer for free?

ALL TUBE SITES THAT OFFER CLIPS THAT EXCEED 30 SECONDS SUCK SHIT!

[duff]

Originally Posted by Shap

The problem with comparing to mainstream is, from what I've read, most of them are not having any success online. The music industry, for example, is screwed. I've yet to hear of anyone reporting huge success broadcasting content online. So DRM or not the $$$ and profit are not rolling in. In fact if you research deeper you'll see many people seem to agree that if the Music industry would have listened to their users demands and requests they'd be less screwed today.

There is a constant push towards things becoming free. It happens in most industries. It's happening in ours. When the push accelerates towards free the answer isn't to limit what you offer but instead to increase what you offer and live with the new profit margins that emerge. That is exactly the situation our industry is in right now.

I agree with you 100%... plus it's hard to compare a mainstream TV business to ours, being that they can sell advertising on their shows and we can't. I was saying that they obviously have a DRM solution that works, whether they are profiting from it or not is another story.

But I think you hit it dead on in your second paragraph. Plus combined with what Dean is talking about, there are lots of ways to keep members interested in your site.

[Shap]

Originally Posted by mynameisjim

They are dropping DRM on on items that cost .99 cents. Actually less because they are dropping the price to .89 or less. I don't see them doing that with their TV shows or movies which would be a more apt analogy to the adult business.

A combo of DRM and encrytped streaming could work very well. Look, all the networks are using encrypted streaming and seem to think it's safe. Hulu is using it as well and the studios are playing ball with them.

Encrypted streaming seems to be the way to go at this stage of the game. Sure, it can be cracked but it seems only by screen capture programs. Who is going to sit and capture 100's of hours of video that has to be playing on screen just to give it away on the torrents for free. I'm sure it's a much smaller number than those who just just use a site ripper that downloads in the background.

The interesting thing people keep mentioning is that it can be cracked. For guys like me that is the least of my concerns. Reality is 99% of things can be cracked. My only concern is what the members think of DRM. At the end of the day they hate it.

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by who

So what will you offer, monthly 2 gb flash drives mailed out to members with fresh content?

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by simonsyinister

HD video is NOT the answer..if a guy wants to jack off..he's not too concerned with sharper quality of the video if his bank account is at $15..and now most guys have a low bank account. SO folks if you're shooting the same B/g stuff all the tube sites love to steal..you in big fucking trouble..Agencies are blowing my phone up to hire girls. Production and updates are slowing the fuck down.

I'm staying alive because I've branched in the obscured fetish niches..weird stuff no tube site or webmasters would even think about...but the surfers are paying up directly to me for the stuff.

In this market, I don't give two shits how good ur shit looks..how glossy, how fancy, how much Hi def u got..if the content is the same damn thing we've seen for 10 years ( new porn girl gets fucked on new wave fuzzy couch..wow)..ur ass is getting fucked deep..good luck to you!

Fucking Amen, thank you.

I wish more people would understand this concept.

[Si]

all tube sites should be banned. youtube itself is fucking shit! full of crap, sad cunts visit the site all the time to watch videos of people talking shit on webcam, news they missed that they just have to see because they are sad idiots, watching girls doing stupid dances while they rub they're tiny penis eating buckets of KFC. the list goes on.

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by BVF

Come back and give your opinion after you have ACTUALLY run a paysite.

Any and ALL tube site discussions should have his requirement. It would eliminate the tube threads by 90%.

[Shap]

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Fucking Amen, thank you.

I wish more people would understand this concept.

I understand the concept. Not all concept apply to all business

[Shap]

Originally Posted by mobilefun1987

all tube sites should be banned. youtube itself is fucking shit! full of crap, sad cunts visit the site all the time to watch videos of people talking shit on webcam, news they missed that they just have to see because they are sad idiots, watching girls doing stupid dances while they rub they're tiny penis eating buckets of KFC. the list goes on.

Whether they should be banned or not isn't the issue. The issue is they are here and here to stay so you have to adapt to them.

[GonZo]

Originally Posted by shap

ok i'm not trying to be a dick to anyone here. But here is an important question.

Name one top tier site that uses drm.

aebn.net

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Well if this is going to spin out to the music industry maybe the content of what the big music industry is pushing is the problem.

The music industry at large is not meeting the demand and is ignoring what the audience wants. I think Itunes is merely a fad and a bandwagon for "popular" music. The music is not popular it is force fed.

If you bought a Metallica Album lately and think thats metal thats fine but there are a shit ton of way better metal bands these days and many of them are using independent means to reach thier audiences.

The music industry for years now has attempted to stem and bottle neck independent music and each year independent artists gain ground on the internet.

DRM wasnt the problem, Digital distribution wasnt the problem. Sure the Larger music labels cried about losing money on the internet to piracy and yeah they did lose to piracy but they also failed to meet the audiences appetite for the different genre's of music.

Just from my own music tastes I listen to things hardly anyone has ever heard of infact its a style of music called Down Tempo, artists like Spore, Giocomo Bondi, Air, Kaskade and many others most probably never heard of. It's a great form of music and relaxing yet totally ignored and buried by the music industry at large.

Anyways just saying when a service or evenb a band offers the audience what they are looking for and the style they want... The audiences will indeed pay the price.

Piracy can be slowed but never will it be halted but more than those two things most business in adult and music for that matter just miss thier audiences by a very wide margin by not providing what thier audiences expect and want.

[Shap]

Originally Posted by GonZo

aebn.net

I was referring to paysites.