l. pink's *bp boycott* thread got me thinking.......

[dyna mo]

what would it really take to boycott oil? to truly live an petroleum free life? it would take a lot more than just selling your gas powered machines and riding a bike, in fact, you couldn't have a bike, tires, etc, all are based on that. pretty much everything manufactured these days has a petroleum cost.

you certainly could not own a computer, or television or shoes, etc etc.

it seems to me that we are completely tied to petroleum in all aspects of our lives.

[Choopa Phil]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

what would it really take to boycott oil? to truly live an petroleum free life? it would take a lot more than just selling your gas powered machines and riding a bike, in fact, you couldn't have a bike, tires, etc, all are based on that. pretty much everything manufactured these days has a petroleum cost.

you certainly could not own a computer, or television or shoes, etc etc.

it seems to me that we are completely tied to petroleum in all aspects of our lives.

you are 100% correct sir. even using the heat from oil burning hot water heaters, or homes still powered by oil. were in for a rude awakening

[selena]

I agree that you are correct. However, if we were able to use alternative non-food supply fuels to provide motive power to our cars, we might well be able to use our own natural resources for our other petroleum based needs.

[leedsfan]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

what would it really take to boycott oil? to truly live an petroleum free life? it would take a lot more than just selling your gas powered machines and riding a bike, in fact, you couldn't have a bike, tires, etc, all are based on that. pretty much everything manufactured these days has a petroleum cost.

you certainly could not own a computer, or television or shoes, etc etc.

it seems to me that we are completely tied to petroleum in all aspects of our lives.

very good question DM.

certainly its pervasive through just about every product we use in our lives in some shape or form. By products are used in plastics and so many other day to day items its pretty much impossible to know whats what in a modernized country anyway.

[Tom_PM]

Yeah, kinda like Corn! It's in every dang processed food out there it seems.

Using it in a tire is not as bad as burning it. At least a tire lasts damn near forever. You can shred rubber tires and melt and mold it into decking and all kinds of other things.

Kind of like how styrofoam is a horrible choice for a disposble cup. It'll be used for 5 minutes and thrown away and exist for a million years as a broken cup.

But using Structural Insulated Panels to lay a building foundation is a good use for styrofoam because you want it to last forever in that application.

The real answer is going to be just living simply. If you can walk to your mailbox, then dont drive. Stuff like that on a real human scale goes a long way.

[DimeCash]

My grandparents tell me how they used to walk 3 miles to and from school every day even in the snow or adverse conditions. Most people now cannot even think about walking 2 blocks to the grocery store without getting into a panic.

Its time for a shift back for some things like transportation for short runs, living closer to work, etc..

[CarlosTheGaucho]

Impossible, there's some form of "oil" practically in anything, that's artificially manufactured.

[leedsfan]

Originally Posted by PR_Tom

Yeah, kinda like Corn! It's in every dang processed food out there it seems.

Using it in a tire is not as bad as burning it. At least a tire lasts damn near forever. You can shred rubber tires and melt and mold it into decking and all kinds of other things.

Kind of like how styrofoam is a horrible choice for a disposble cup. It'll be used for 5 minutes and thrown away and exist for a million years as a broken cup.

But using Structural Insulated Panels to lay a building foundation is a good use for styrofoam because you want it to last forever in that application.

The real answer is going to be just living simply. If you can walk to your mailbox, then dont drive. Stuff like that on a real human scale goes a long way.

buying reusable bags to go grocery shopping instead of plastic. Walking instead of taking the car. Eat local sustainable than buying things from the other side of the world.

here is an example:

In Vancouver (where I live) 80% of the prawns sold in BC come from Asia.
Meanwhile 80% of the prawns caught in BC are sold in Asia.

Think of the oil and gas used to transport those prawns each way, and by simply changing our buying habits we can alter the carbon footprint we are creating when buying out of season, and out of town/state/province/country/continent.

[Klen]

Well,i use public transport only which is on electricty mostly so i dont use oil one way or another.

[leedsfan]

Originally Posted by KlenTelaris

Well,i use public transport only which is on electricty mostly so i dont use oil one way or another.

how is that electricity generated??????

[Tom_PM]

Yeah leedsfan, stuff like the food import/export example you said drive me nuts lol!

I've been walking to the grocery store for 4 months now. I have 4 re-usable canvas grocery bags and set off on my half mile walk. Carrying it home can be rough since I'm not in the best shape and some things are simply heavy. Sometimes it's snowing or raining too.

[leedsfan]

So we can reduce pollution considerably:

1) Buy local. It means two way trip for food producers to your store's supplier. Hopefully a hundred miles or less X two ways.

Because:
2) Buying out of season means transporting products hundreds or thousands of miles to your store's supplier X two ways.

We all have to eat. If we think local and buy local it means reducing carbon emissions from trucks and ships and vans used to bring the food to you. Next time you walk to the grocery store, think how far the product you are buying has to come to you.

[CaptainHowdy]

We can be as naive as we want to!

[PR_Glen]

what a bunch of crap... Oil companies don't get rich off bike tires and shoe rubber manufacturing or you buying t-shirts...

The oil companies make billions off of GASOLINE! and north americas comfort in driving 45 minutes to get to work every day creates an unnecessary need in guzzling far more gas than is actually required. If we were smart we would start designing cities back as they used to be, tight quarters where everyplace (work, food, shopping) can be reached quickly by foot, bike or subway. Toronto is set up well this way, so is New York... Detroit, in contrast, is spread out a lot where everyone has to drive 15-20 minutes to get to anywhere! Almost nobody lives in the downtown core and everyone who works there drives at least a half an hour coming in from the michigan suburbs every day. You get rid of cities set up like that? The oil people will feel it...

[dallasnovelty]

Until some other major countries like India and China cut down oil use some of our conservation methods dont even make a dent in reducing carbon footprint. Its kind of crazy when the local governments switched some of their vehicles to alternative fuels but the biggest offending equipment and vehicles are still burning diesel. and trucks use diesel to deliver the alternative fuels that they are using in a supervisors car that gets driven 2-3 times a week LOL but they can say they are green and get more grants.
As long as were a nation of consumers and must have now people our oil demand will be forever high especially the way most of the latest generations1980-2000 of kids have been raised.

[leedsfan]

Originally Posted by PR_Glen

what a bunch of crap... Oil companies don't get rich off bike tires and shoe rubber manufacturing or you buying t-shirts...

The oil companies make billions off of GASOLINE! and north americas comfort in driving 45 minutes to get to work every day creates an unnecessary need in guzzling far more gas than is actually required. If we were smart we would start designing cities back as they used to be, tight quarters where everyplace (work, food, shopping) can be reached quickly by foot, bike or subway. Toronto is set up well this way, so is New York... Detroit, in contrast, is spread out a lot where everyone has to drive 15-20 minutes to get to anywhere! Almost nobody lives in the downtown core and everyone who works there drives at least a half an hour coming in from the michigan suburbs every day. You get rid of cities set up like that? The oil people will feel it...

no-one said they didn't Glen. And as I said above more importantly than driving back and forward to work every day,which is bad enough as you say, thousands more miles are clocked delivering the food you eat every day. Way more than commuting. Here is a link to research done on food miles.

[CarlosTheGaucho]

If you get fucked so much in the ass on gas prices, energy prices etc. such as here - you always end up saving.

Put the gas price down to the US levels and first thing you'll see will be idiots driving in a tank to a grocery store.

[Tom_PM]

No doubt, Glen. New Yorkers (and big city people in general) are said to be among the healthiest in large part due to simply walking. They fuel up with breakfast and actually burn the fuel. What a concept.
Driving forever to sit at a desk is a real problem, but wiping feet on a rubber doormat is not a big deal really. Let them make all the durable goods they can.

[Elli]

It would be pretty much impossible to live a "modern" life without petroleum products. I think the key is to make sure the products we demand are neccessary and as efficient as they can be. No more single use plastic bags, wrapping bananas in cellophane, and the like.

It's up to the consumer to be very aware of what she/he is buying and what message that is sending to the retailer and manufacturer. They *will* sell us what we demand, so we have to be thoughtful.

Use less, eat less, enjoy life more.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by PR_Glen

what a bunch of crap... Oil companies don't get rich off bike tires and shoe rubber manufacturing or you buying t-shirts...

yes, they do:

[PR_Glen]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

yes, they do:

aww partial quote gets you partial credit..

whats missing from this list is the pennies they get for selling the leftover shit compared to what the $$ they get for gasoline.. nice diversion though, does not help your argument at all.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by PR_Glen

aww partial quote gets you partial credit..

whats missing from this list is the pennies they get for selling the leftover shit compared to what the $$ they get for gasoline.. nice diversion though, does not help your argument at all.

wtf is your problem? are you always this glib? it's a thread at gfy, nothing more nothing less.

but you missed the part in that pic that states 1/2 a barrel of oil goes to create over 6000 products

AND you completely miss the point of the thread and then go on the offensive towards me?

gfy.

[leedsfan]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

wtf is your problem? are you always this glib? it's a thread at gfy, nothing more nothing less.

but you missed the part in that pic that states 1/2 a barrel of oil goes to create over 6000 products

AND you completely miss the point of the thread and then go on the offensive towards me?

gfy.

Glen's time of the month. Apparently.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by leedsfan

Glen's time of the month. Apparently.

i guess eh. i just figured he owns a hummer and just tanked up for the 2nd time this week.

[Tom_PM]

I dont see it as a conflict really. There's no doubt that the cash-crop is gasoline.

And the rest of the uses is better than just dumping it, and certainly become items that modern people might find it hard to live without.

But without the gasoline use, the extra uses might not ever have come into being.

[Tom_PM]

There's a tv show that airs sometimes on Discovery channel in the US called Planet Mechanics, where a couple of guys go around trying to harness alternate energy sources for various tasks.

One episode was helping a farmer with his grain dryer, which is a real petrol hog I guess. They made a big methane collection tank, pumped cow waste into it, waited for it to produce enough of the gas. This they used to power a small 4 stroke engine which ran the rape seed oil extractor, and the rape seed oil was then used to run the grain dryer. Pretty cool. Long winded, but cool anyway.

[fatfoo]

You can't really boycott oil, much like you can't boycott your entire economy. Even if you choose not to use oil yourself, you could give someone $5 and they will spend it on oil. You really never know who you are giving money to. You could even give your money to a serial killer (but you did not know he was a serial killer).

[ShellyCrash]

Its hard to cut back on oil. I don't think anyone outside of a commune can truly live petrolium free, but I think on a grander scale if everyone was to change habits to preserve and conserve- while not a solution- it would make a dent.

When I lived in Olympia, WA it was a bit easier to get around car free but in suburban FL its a much different game, things are very spread out and public transportation is nearly non existant and extremely impractical. I've hired a few bus riders in the past, and occasionally I would wind up giving them rides home because I felt so awful they had to commute 2+hrs for a distance that buy car only took 30 mins.

Since we're talking about energy, is anyone else getting jacked by their electric company? Our energy consumption has not increased but they changed the billing down here maybe 6 months ago and it tacked on an extra $100 a month. (insert angry face)

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by PR_Tom

I dont see it as a conflict really. There's no doubt that the cash-crop is gasoline.

And the rest of the uses is better than just dumping it, and certainly become items that modern people might find it hard to live without.

But without the gasoline use, the extra uses might not ever have come into being.

i don't disagree with this in the slightest but it is tangential to the point and topic of this thread

as i said in the op-

Originally Posted by dyna mo

what would it really take to boycott oil? to truly live an petroleum free life? it would take a lot more than just selling your gas powered machines and riding a bike, in fact, you couldn't have a bike, tires, etc, all are based on that. pretty much everything manufactured these days has a petroleum cost.

you certainly could not own a computer, or television or shoes, etc etc.

it seems to me that we are completely tied to petroleum in all aspects of our lives.

the question posited was *what would it take to live a truly petroleum free life* in light of the fact that so many products (6000+) stem from petroleum.

i never once suggested, implied or thought that by not buying bicycle tires i'm going to hit big oil in the pocket book.

that's a leap your colleague made.

[CarlosTheGaucho]

Originally Posted by ShellyCrash

Its hard to cut back on oil. I don't think anyone outside of a commune can truly live petrolium free, but I think on a grander scale if everyone was to change habits to preserve and conserve- while not a solution- it would make a dent.

When I lived in Olympia, WA it was a bit easier to get around car free but in suburban FL its a much different game, things are very spread out and public transportation is nearly non existant and extremely impractical. I've hired a few bus riders in the past, and occasionally I would wind up giving them rides home because I felt so awful they had to commute 2+hrs for a distance that buy car only took 30 mins.

Since we're talking about energy, is anyone else getting jacked by their electric company? Our energy consumption has not increased but they changed the billing down here maybe 6 months ago and it tacked on an extra $100 a month. (insert angry face)

Well that's exactly what's happening here - the more you save the more they fuck you over.

The price per kW goes up 12 - 15 pct. every year and then you watch adverts on how to "save" on energy they sponsor on TV.

The problem is, if you're really saving, then you get fucked the most,

because they have such a "sophisticated" system of calculation that you just can't go below a certain amount, even if you plugged everything off and left for a month to live in wild lands.

While if you would be wasting energy you obviously get the best price / kW ratio.

They're basically securing the same revenues with higher profit margins and less consumption.

[Coup]

sell every god damn thing you own and turn to subsistent farming

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subsistence_agriculture

anything less is pure fucking bullshit.

[TrainWreckContent]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

yes, they do:

thats crazy to see how many things are on that list

[LoveSandra]

I agree ..........

[iseeyou]

The title of this thread is "BP boycott" but everyone is talking about living without petroleum products.

Boycotting BP is impossible because living oil free is impossible. Deceptive reasoning there.

Boycotting BP is possible. Merchants or neighbors or customers or boss or family or friends may not do it but you can try to do it.

On the other hand, if you like BP and want them to appear more innocent about their oil rig debacle, then confuse people on message boards by implying that its not possible to live without oil from BP.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by DimeCash

My grandparents tell me how they used to walk 3 miles to and from school every day even in the snow or adverse conditions. Most people now cannot even think about walking 2 blocks to the grocery store without getting into a panic.

Its time for a shift back for some things like transportation for short runs, living closer to work, etc..

I walk my daughter to and from school every day, and have for the past few years. It's great really. We take the dog. After I drop her off in the morning I go running.

My car sits in the garage and rarely gets driven.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by iseeyou

The title of this thread is "BP boycott" but everyone is talking about living without petroleum products.

Boycotting BP is impossible because living oil free is impossible. Deceptive reasoning there.

Boycotting BP is possible. Merchants or neighbors or customers or boss or family or friends may not do it but you can try to do it.

On the other hand, if you like BP and want them to appear more innocent about their oil rig debacle, then confuse people on message boards by implying that its not possible to live without oil from BP.

well, wrong. the title is l. pink's *boycott bp* thread got me thinking.....

i went on to say exactly what you think you are pointing your finger at me for being deceptive(?) about and confusing to people when in fact it's your own lack of reading comprehension that is the issue.


too funny. ironic, but funny. i mean it can't be that hard. you made it onto the internet, eh. so you do have some capacity to form coherent thoughts and actions.


good luck to you.

[seeandsee]

i need grass fuel

[tranza]

Originally Posted by PR_Glen

whats missing from this list is the pennies they get for selling the leftover shit compared to what the $$ they get for gasoline.. nice diversion though, does not help your argument at all.

Actually you couldn't be more wrong.....

[Wizzo]

Originally Posted by KlenTelaris

Well,i use public transport only which is on electricty mostly so i dont use oil one way or another.

Really? So all your clothes custom made locally, all the fruits and vegetables you eat are grown locally, you produce your own power by sun or wind, your electronics are made how?

[Elli]

Originally Posted by Wizzo

Really? So all your clothes custom made locally, all the fruits and vegetables you eat are grown locally, you produce your own power by sun or wind, your electronics are made how?

It'd be interesting to find out how much oil is involved in producing your average personal computer.