An Industry w/ No Copyright Protection: Lessons From Fashion's Free Culture

[D Ghost]

I've said it time and time again: "Morph or die."

There are a plethora of valuable and applicable points that can absorbed from this presentation, I encourage you to watch...



I especially like when she talks about a particular shoe designer who was complaining about people copying his shoe designs, then he realized that this forced him to up his game and become more creative, ultimately leading to more success.

[Doctor Dre]

The problem is : Even thought you've got no copyrights, they are still selling a product.

The people in this industry are getting their product stolen and given away at no cost. Big fucking difference.

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by Doctor Dre

The problem is : Even thought you've got no copyrights, they are still selling a product.

The people in this industry are getting their product stolen and given away at no cost. Big fucking difference.

If a product was stolen, we wouldn't have it anymore. Our content is being duplicated... it continues to make money even after it's stolen.

Much like cloths are duplicated... and the org continues to make money yet the new duplicate has a chance now as well.

Different yes, but the two Industries appear to be rather closely connected in many odd ways when it comes to piracy/copyright & duplication issue.

[D Ghost]

Originally Posted by Doctor Dre

The problem is : Even thought you've got no copyrights, they are still selling a product.

The people in this industry are getting their product stolen and given away at no cost. Big fucking difference.

I am not advocating piracy in any manner. It is unacceptable.

What I am advocating is the fostering of new ideas, methods and systems to propel business to the next levels and beyond.

This is more about, for example, an "Ex-GF" type site and then a copy "Ex-GF" type similar site.

What can the old original do to move forward and create a stonger, better, more valuable product and service.

[BV]

i'd hit it

[flip.green]

I think this argument is hard to visualize considering virtual goods compared to physical goods are 1000000000000% easier to steal and conceal. It's arguably more profitable being pirate scum than innovating in porn.

But I do see your point. Honestly im just glad this thread isn't about politics or disaster so +2

[brentbacardi]

Well it doesn't help that the only innovations people in this industry make DO NOT HELP lol.... instead of making a DRM standard, we said shit lets let our customers download unprotected content to their hard drives during their first month and let them keep watching it after they cancel. Instead of an industry push for requiring credit cards to gain access to porn, we said lets make tubesites to get more traffic.

Yall shooting each other in the foot, someone in the jizz bizz comes up with a new idea that works for themselves and fucks everyone else over.... no wonder people feel entitled to free porn.

[D Ghost]

Originally Posted by brentbacardi

Well it doesn't help that the only innovations people in this industry make DO NOT HELP lol.... instead of making a DRM standard, we said shit lets let our customers download unprotected content to their hard drives during their first month and let them keep watching it after they cancel. Instead of an industry push for requiring credit cards to gain access to porn, we said lets make tubesites to get more traffic.

Yall shooting each other in the foot, someone in the jizz bizz comes up with a new idea that works for themselves and fucks everyone else over.... no wonder people feel entitled to free porn.

Well the tubes are here. And what's done is done. So I say, instead of rambling and moaning about "tubes" - do something about it (not directed at you brentbacardi).

When times get rough, this should be a breeding ground for innovation.

[D Ghost]

Originally Posted by flip.green

I think this argument is hard to visualize considering virtual goods compared to physical goods are 1000000000000% easier to steal and conceal. It's arguably more profitable being pirate scum than innovating in porn.

I disagree, companies like Steve Madden or Target, who are already setup to push out new products on the fly, can easily replicate a shoe or clothing item off Gucci, Chanel or Prada. Just as a webmaster who already has a server, etc can do the same digitally.

Originally Posted by flip.green

But I do see your point. Honestly im just glad this thread isn't about politics or disaster so +2

Thanks

[brentbacardi]

Originally Posted by DJ The Kid

(not directed at you brentbacardi).

No I hear ya... just pointing out some major industry trends that have not helped in the long run. Next thing you know someones going to come up with some new innovation that makes even more money by giving away even more for free, idk lol

[brentbacardi]

Originally Posted by DJ The Kid

I disagree, someone like Steve Madden or Target can easily replicate a shoe or clothing item off Gucci, Chanel or Prada.

Yeah but its like if you could pay 5 bucks a month to go to X's sologirl site thats illegal hack or you could pay 20 bucks a month and get all the content plus the webcam shows and access to her monthly panty giveaways idk lol.... it wont steal too much from her site. BUT if there was a copy site with only 50% of her content is FREE then that would steal much more from her memberships. its the fact that its all free in porn and not just cheaper knockoff.

[kane]

There are always clones in every industry. someone comes up with something that works and other people copy it.

The big difference is that with a shoe, the person who steals the design still has to pay to manufacture, sell and ship the shoes. With digital media like porn you can duplicate it for free with two clicks of a mouse.

If ever copy of a porn movie you made cost you money, there would be a whole lot less pirating going on.

[D Ghost]

Originally Posted by brentbacardi

No I hear ya... just pointing out some major industry trends that have not helped in the long run. Next thing you know someones going to come up with some new innovation that makes even more money by giving away even more for free, idk lol

Well that's not the direction this "innovation" should go. I'm not just talking about Free vs. Not-Free porn. There are other factors to consider in this.


Some good examples of one way it should go:

In the mobile realm, you can barely watch any videos on PornHub's Mobile site without buying a membership.

On xshare.com, you cannot find any videos (as far as I can see) that are more than about 4 minutes long. Same with Xshare.com's mobile site.

[BlackCrayon]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

If a product was stolen, we wouldn't have it anymore. Our content is being duplicated... it continues to make money even after it's stolen.

Much like cloths are duplicated... and the org continues to make money yet the new duplicate has a chance now as well.

Different yes, but the two Industries appear to be rather closely connected in many odd ways when it comes to piracy/copyright & duplication issue.

ripping off a style and selling it yourself is one thing. its being given away for free...

[D Ghost]

Originally Posted by kane

There are always clones in every industry. someone comes up with something that works and other people copy it.

The big difference is that with a shoe, the person who steals the design still has to pay to manufacture, sell and ship the shoes. With digital media like porn you can duplicate it for free with two clicks of a mouse.

If ever copy of a porn movie you made cost you money, there would be a whole lot less pirating going on.

Again, I disagree, it is one in the same, with different variables.

Copying porn is not free, it costs time and money (server costs, etc).

[brentbacardi]

Originally Posted by DJ The Kid

Well that's not the direction this "innovation" should go. I'm not just talking about Free vs. Not-Free porn. There are other factors to consider in this.


Some good examples of one way it should go:

In the mobile realm, you can barely watch any videos on PornHub's Mobile site without buying a membership.

On xshare.com, you cannot find any videos (as far as I can see) that are more than about 4 minutes long. Same with Xshare.com's mobile site.

Too true, so far mobile seems to be ok... so far!

[LickMyBalls]

I'm morphing Breast Expansion Archives. The 's' is missing on your creation so I will register and "morph" your trademark

[BlackCrayon]

Originally Posted by DJ The Kid

I disagree, companies like Steve Madden or Target, who are already setup to push out new products on the fly, can easily replicate a shoe or clothing item off Gucci, Chanel or Prada. Just as a webmaster who already has a server, etc can do the same digitally.





Thanks

Sure, but they aren't giving it away for free. Even if its sold at a discount of the original, its still not being distributed with no charge whatsoever to the consumer....

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by kane

There are always clones in every industry. someone comes up with something that works and other people copy it.

The big difference is that with a shoe, the person who steals the design still has to pay to manufacture, sell and ship the shoes. With digital media like porn you can duplicate it for free with two clicks of a mouse.

If ever copy of a porn movie you made cost you money, there would be a whole lot less pirating going on.

True dat.

Sadly, as each new program, or technology comes out. Something comes out to beat it. Just like fuzz busters. If you think there will ever be anything that keeps the genie in the bottle, it's a pipe dream.

At most, realistically, you can hope for a few fingers in the dyke.

[kane]

Originally Posted by DJ The Kid

Again, I disagree, it is one in the same, with different variables.

Copying porn is not free, it costs time and money (server costs, etc).

You really think that?

You can download a ton of porn and start up a porn site for very little money. You could use a download manager and download gigs and gigs of porn in a day. Spend a few hundred dollars on a script and hosting then another few days uploading and you have yourself a nice big tube site filled with a ton of high quality movies on it. It costs you very little and not a whole lot of time.

It will cost you tens of thousands of dollars to manufacture, sell and ship clothes or shoes. Porn is something you can do yourself. Clothes require an entire network of people to get the product into the customer's hands.

It is like saying that the guy who delivers the newspaper spends the same amount of time, effort and money doing his job as the people who write, edit, put together and print the newspaper.

They are very different.

There is a reason most clothing lines fail. They are expensive to start and operate. When you steal a known, popular design you eliminate some of the risk, but there is still an enormous amount of cost in duplicating and distributing those clothes.

[L-Pink]

Until the stolen clothes/shoes are duplicated then given away for FREE to move a different product the comparison is not valid.

And just how long would the designers continue to design then?


.

[slavdogg]

i've said it many times, fuck copyrights, and patents

[D Ghost]

Originally Posted by kane

You really think that?

You can download a ton of porn and start up a porn site for very little money. You could use a download manager and download gigs and gigs of porn in a day. Spend a few hundred dollars on a script and hosting then another few days uploading and you have yourself a nice big tube site filled with a ton of high quality movies on it. It costs you very little and not a whole lot of time.

It will cost you tens of thousands of dollars to manufacture, sell and ship clothes or shoes. Porn is something you can do yourself. Clothes require an entire network of people to get the product into the customer's hands.

It is like saying that the guy who delivers the newspaper spends the same amount of time, effort and money doing his job as the people who write, edit, put together and print the newspaper.

They are very different.

There is a reason most clothing lines fail. They are expensive to start and operate. When you steal a known, popular design you eliminate some of the risk, but there is still an enormous amount of cost in duplicating and distributing those clothes.

Well yeah, you just proved my point, it's not free...

It's just on a smaller scale cost-wise than ripping off a pair of shoes.


And of course the comparison is not exact. I never claimed it was. But there are some similarities. This can be applied across many industries.

People think the online adult industry is special. Well, it is, in certain ways. But when it comes to basics, it's not!

[kane]

Originally Posted by DJ The Kid

Well yeah, you just proved my point, it's not free...

It's just on a smaller scale cost-wise than ripping off a pair of shoes.


And of course the comparison is not exact. I never claimed it was. But there are some similarities. This can be applied across many industries.

People think the online adult industry is special. Well, it is, in certain ways. But when it comes to basics, it's not!

To me the only thing they really have in common is that both are examples of stealing someone else's work for your own profit. Beyond that I think there is very little that they share.

One is something that is very easy to duplicate and distribute while the other would take a lot of time, effort and money to duplicate and distribute. One is a digital good and another is something that is a hard good. To me a more similar comparison would be TV or music or other digital media. Not to mention the current trend in porn is to just give it away in hopes of selling some dating or cam memberships. I don't think the guys stealing shoe designs are giving away their shoes in order to hopefully sell a pair of socks.

[bronco67]

Originally Posted by kane

There are always clones in every industry. someone comes up with something that works and other people copy it.

The big difference is that with a shoe, the person who steals the design still has to pay to manufacture, sell and ship the shoes. With digital media like porn you can duplicate it for free with two clicks of a mouse.

If ever copy of a porn movie you made cost you money, there would be a whole lot less pirating going on.

This is why that video can't be used as an argument for no-copyright laws.

[Argos88]

what do you mean exactly with "morph or die"... "adapt or die" ???

can you be more specific ?

.

[D Ghost]

Originally Posted by Argos88

what do you mean exactly with "morph or die"... "adapt or die" ???

can you be more specific ?

.

It means exactly what it says... morph, or if you prefer adapt, innovate, or fall by the wayside.

Repeating the same thing over and over again, expecting a different outcome is the definition of insanity.

[marcop]

Originally Posted by DJ The Kid

I've said it time and time again: "Morph or die."

There are a plethora of valuable and applicable points that can absorbed from this presentation, I encourage you to watch...



I especially like when she talks about a particular shoe designer who was complaining about people copying his shoe designs, then he realized that this forced him to up his game and become more creative, ultimately leading to more success.

Maybe it's just me... but don't the creators of, for example, photographs and videos actually have copyright protections? So what's the problem with paying those creators for their work?

[Argos88]

Originally Posted by DJ The Kid

It means exactly what it says... morph, or if you prefer adapt, innovate, or fall by the wayside.

Repeating the same thing over and over again, expecting a different outcome is the definition of insanity.

Well, you are too ambiguous...

Adapt or die?

Again, what do you mean exactly?

[KillerK]

If they copy a purse, the copy is not usually as good of quality as the original and people can tell it's a fake. Like the fake Rolex's and Coach purses. There is a different in materials, while ripping the member area is the same quality videos/photos.

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

ripping off a style and selling it yourself is one thing. its being given away for free...

I did say they're different.. however, not everyone rips a style and keeps it only to themselves, they sell the end duplicate. If you really think about it, free porn isn't really free but rather ad supported and it has costs - just a different way to sell based on the duplicated material that never runs out.

The video is a lesson and example of what is happening in our Industry and how to deal with it...

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by KillerK

If they copy a purse, the copy is not usually as good of quality as the original and people can tell it's a fake. Like the fake Rolex's and Coach purses. There is a different in materials, while ripping the member area is the same quality videos/photos.

And sometimes a better purse or copy is made... unlike in porn. Or a better style or addition can be added to improve it... unlike in porn. However producers copy porn styles too

The story equals out in a lot of very odd ways.

[D Ghost]

Originally Posted by Argos88

Well, you are too ambiguous...

Adapt or die?

Again, what do you mean exactly?

Adapt or die. Adapt to the changing business climate, or die.

Example: Complaining about tube sites. Well, do something about it, or work around or through it. Adapt and morph.

What do you think I mean? lol

Again, no one is condoning piracy at any level. And the video is not condoning it either.

[EtainmentGraeme]

I reckon one major difference that sets adult content and consumer goods theft apart is the fact the consumers of adult content tend to do so privately whereas consumers of products such as shoes/handbags do so often as a very public statement. A consumer of adult content is not going to be standing around the watercooler proudly talking about the original non-pirated porn they watched the night before, however a consumer of Gucci handbags is likely to be driven partly by the kudos of owning the original rather than a copy. Those who buy the pirated bags or the close copies will often find themselves being sneered at etc by the fashionistas. The social and personal pressure is stronger for consumer goods such as Gucci, and consequently the losses to piracy are likely to be proportionally greater in an industry such as adult as this social pressure is absent.

[LoveSandra]

Originally Posted by kane

There are always clones in every industry. someone comes up with something that works and other people copy it.

The big difference is that with a shoe, the person who steals the design still has to pay to manufacture, sell and ship the shoes. With digital media like porn you can duplicate it for free with two clicks of a mouse.

If ever copy of a porn movie you made cost you money, there would be a whole lot less pirating going on.

good words

[D Ghost]

Again, this thread is not a "can you spot the differences between the fashion and adult industry" - It is about taking out the similarities in the points given in the video. Also, it is not saying that "piracy is ok."

Don't over think it.

[D Ghost]

Always brings you back to the question: "Do you know your customer?" Everybody seems to be trying to attract that customer that wants free porn, or assumes all surfers will not pay... why?

I know guys my age (26) who still buy porn from certain sites. And they are WELL AWARE of free sites and tube sites, and I've seen them visit RedTube.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by DJ The Kid

Well the tubes are here. And what's done is done. So I say, instead of rambling and moaning about "tubes" - do something about it (not directed at you brentbacardi).

When times get rough, this should be a breeding ground for innovation.

Like what?

It's all very well to sit there and say "do something about it" but what do you suggest. The Industries reaction to Tubes was to make 1,000s of Tube sites, give away long previews and often host them. That's not going to stop the pirates, it only teaches surfers Tubes are their answer.

Yes the industry needs to change, how is the big question. It needs to be change the buyers like and will get them back.

Originally Posted by kane

There are always clones in every industry. someone comes up with something that works and other people copy it.

The big difference is that with a shoe, the person who steals the design still has to pay to manufacture, sell and ship the shoes. With digital media like porn you can duplicate it for free with two clicks of a mouse.

If ever copy of a porn movie you made cost you money, there would be a whole lot less pirating going on.

Anyone who compares designers copying top designers with the pirating on porn sites has not got all the facts. I worked in both porn and dressmaking and trust me the difference is like comparing a chicken with a cow because they both live on a farm.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by DJ The Kid

Always brings you back to the question: "Do you know your customer?" Everybody seems to be trying to attract that customer that wants free porn, or assumes all surfers will not pay... why?

Looking at the attraction of Tubes over paysites it's easy to see why customers prefer them.

No "monthly" memberships, the user can log in as and when it pleases him. It takes most men 30 minutes to find and get off to a movie. Then he can come back in a day, week, month or when it pleases him.

1,000s of videos to choose from. He can take a look at one and if it does not please him he can choose another.

No chance of his card being scammed.

So how do we satisfy the needs of the customer? It's easy to tell why he prefers Tubes.

[LickMyBalls]

My trademark 'Breast Expansion Archives' is pending

[D Ghost]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Looking at the attraction of Tubes over paysites it's easy to see why customers prefer them.

No "monthly" memberships, the user can log in as and when it pleases him. It takes most men 30 minutes to find and get off to a movie. Then he can come back in a day, week, month or when it pleases him.

1,000s of videos to choose from. He can take a look at one and if it does not please him he can choose another.

No chance of his card being scammed.

So how do we satisfy the needs of the customer? It's easy to tell why he prefers Tubes.

I am not the all knowing one, I do not have all the answers.

"How do we satisfy the needs of the customer?" is in the eye of the beholder and their business model...

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Like what?

It's all very well to sit there and say "do something about it" but what do you suggest. The Industries reaction to Tubes was to make 1,000s of Tube sites, give away long previews and often host them. That's not going to stop the pirates, it only teaches surfers Tubes are their answer.

Yes the industry needs to change, how is the big question. It needs to be change the buyers like and will get them back.

Our Industry changes based on technologies and micro-technologies within the main technology. As technology fades away so does porn being created for that medium.

Website Internet Porn isn't dead but it's fading away as new technology and micro-technologies take over the focus. You can sell porn magazines, just not like you once could. Same with porn websites, and it isn't because of free porn.

It's because of technology, it's always been technology... Mobile porn is sky rocketing, sells better and can easily outsell the main paysites, and it's only 5% of "Porn" Internet traffic. Another market is application/widgets and it's exploding. Then being social on social networks, creating communities, groups, and sharing/helping people 'actually' does work and that's a micro-technology within the Internet that is larger than all of porn. This goes on and on and on with Porn and Technology. Even illegal and legal tubes are a micro-technology.

Porn always been more than just 'the Internet' or just one technology... that isn't something we decide, it's something the people decide for us.

15 years ago people in 'mainstream' porn had no idea wtf to do about the Internet or build sites... However some of us had the drive to figure it out and we made millions. The new technology today is just like the Internet 15 years ago, it's a huge WTF is going on with this crap - but once you figure it out, it's millions.

The Industry can "never" change the habits of the surfers, buyers, or free loaders.. however it can ride technology jumps allowing it to find new markets larger than porn and many of those markets 'force the buy' as the only way to get good or any porn on that technology.


That's what adapt or die is... you work in an Industry that changes every few years, it has "problems like" the fashion industry that you can never change - you must adapt - if you sit and do the same thing for too many years, you will be left in the dust and forgotten about.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by DJ The Kid

I am not the all knowing one, I do not have all the answers.

Like I said it's easy to say "Adapt or die"

Doc, mobile porn is selling. But nothing like enough to replace the mainstream porn industries, otherwise mobile companies would be buying in huge numbers.

[D Ghost]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Like I said it's easy to say "Adapt or die"

Doc, mobile porn is selling. But nothing like enough to replace the mainstream porn industries, otherwise mobile companies would be buying in huge numbers.

I didn't say it was easy to innovate.

Mobile porn hasn't even scratched the surface of what revenue it is truly capable of generating... http://www.google.com/insights/searc...%20porn&cmpt=q

Just sayin... stop complaining, start innovating.