recession and porn sales?

[rayzor]

I have a serious question for you guys... I know I've heard all this this talk about porn being recession proof. Is that really true or is it a myth? As an affiliate, my sales has been seriously down across the board the last couple of months.. From PPS to revshare, new sales is drastically down. In a few months, I'll see if my rebills are lower too. Traffic is still there. My sponsors say conversions are "better than ever" Really hard to believe. It's at a point where I've been forced to suspend all paid search traffic and recently all submit passes. I'm going to go for more free natural search traffic. If things don't pick up, I might jump out of adult totally and do more mainstream stuff. I have a full time job in mainstream so it wouldn't be hard.

Just wondering what all you guys doing this full time are encountering.

[Antonio]

sales are fucked for everybody, even cams and dating, but "normal" paysite sponsors are hit the hardest, not that any of them will admit it

[pigface]

ups and downs here, but the ivested time still pays and let me earn more than a full time job...

but seriosly .. sales are in the shitter

[The Duck]

My sales where shit for a while there but getting better.

[ffmihai]

were are all the signups?

[whitealex]

My sales are lower then usual, think this is my worst month this year
strange thing is that traffic is better then ever :S

[tony286]

porn is no longer recession proof, it was when there was no free porn.

[Scott McD]

Originally Posted by ffmihai

were are all the signups?

With all those tube sites ?? Why sign up...

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by tony404

porn is no longer recession proof, it was when there was no free porn.

[Darkland]

Originally Posted by tony404

porn is no longer recession proof, it was when there was no free porn.

What he said...

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by tony404

porn is no longer recession proof, it was when there was no free porn.

How do you know online porn was ever recession proof? We haven't had a recession to test that theory with, globally or within north America.

But what we have and do know is, as eco's build up from down turns and/or recessions, Internet use and buying goes up.

Problem is, the Internet isn't recession proof and it's one of the first "toys" to go, for sure when people have the service for free, at work. At that, the reduction in Internet service to dialup is growing, $10 a month accounts type shit. The public stats about dial up users shows that they check email and a couple social sites, surfing the net isn't something they do and neither is watching youtube or any videos online.


Online porn isn't recession proof because something else costs the user before they are able to get to the online porn.

[- Jesus Christ -]

Would you still love me if I was poor.

[pornguy]

Most people WONT admit it, but yeah sales are getting tough..

I said long ago and was laughed at, that economy hurts online porn juyst like everything else.

Thing is it only took a little longer.

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by pornguy

Most people WONT admit it, but yeah sales are getting tough..

I said long ago and was laughed at, that economy hurts online porn juyst like everything else.

Thing is it only took a little longer.

Personal Entertainment things, is one of last things to go. From what I have read, home phones went first.. My only concern is will people keep High Speed Internet vs. Cable TV.

We also have a job loss market that is very very high right now, with almost no new jobs coming in while stuck right in the middle of a credit crisis. And over the last 4 years the natural disasters have displaced 10's of millions of people, not all at once, but from Cali fires, super floods, major hurricane's, it has been a rough 4 years.

[Agent 488]

read a studying saying that for consumers internet and cell phone would be the last disposable income purchase they will hold on to.

entertainment purchases would be the first to go. i assume porn memberships would be in that category.

also maxed out credit cards and the huge increase in credit card defaults will affect sales too.

[brand0n]

between tubes and $ drying up my sales are down across the board in every direction.

[rayzor]

It's as I thought.. Time to slice more advertising buy.

[Sosa]

down across the board here as well.

[mynameisjim]

On several boards I'm actually seeing people being honest about the economic reality and sales. That scares me as everyone in adult usually lies their ass off about sales.

In adult, when people say sales are "down" that must mean they are dead.

But porn could be recession resistant if there wasn't so much free porn on illegal tube sites. Video game sales are actually holding up pretty well if you look at those retail numbers so people still have a few bucks to spend on entertainment they want.

[rayzor]

we need a bailout too!!!

[Persius]

Think again,

[Agent 488]

today was the best day of the best month of the best year for sales for me. and i have a photochopped screenshot to prove it.

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by mynameisjim

On several boards I'm actually seeing people being honest about the economic reality and sales. That scares me as everyone in adult usually lies their ass off about sales.

In adult, when people say sales are "down" that must mean they are dead.

But porn could be recession resistant if there wasn't so much free porn on illegal tube sites. Video game sales are actually holding up pretty well if you look at those retail numbers so people still have a few bucks to spend on entertainment they want.

Lots of programs are seeing a slow down in traffic, mostly from Webmasters. Which creates a slow down in overall sales. However, that doesn't mean Programs don't have one or several sites, doing better today than they ever have.

So people posting ratios are good, sales are growing.. Isn't a lie, it's the truth. Just because you can't sling shit at the wall anymore and it stick, doesn't mean people aren't doing well.

[TheDoc]

With every surfer going to Tubes, lots to illegal tubes. And "nobody" is buying once they can get it all for free..

It's almost shocking to me that they can still be in business. Some for almost 2 years. Come on, we all know for a fact from this post and most others - that nobody on illegal tube sites buys anything.

It's a pure 100% leach of porn, never buy again, period! Our Industry is doooomed!

Clearly all Tube owners are stupid people running at a loss, just for the sake of spending money. It's the new business model...

OMFG shoot me...

[tony286]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

With every surfer going to Tubes, lots to illegal tubes. And "nobody" is buying once they can get it all for free..

It's almost shocking to me that they can still be in business. Some for almost 2 years. Come on, we all know for a fact from this post and most others - that nobody on illegal tube sites buys anything.

It's a pure 100% leach of porn, never buy again, period! Our Industry is doooomed!

Clearly all Tube owners are stupid people running at a loss, just for the sake of spending money. It's the new business model...

OMFG shoot me...

you know as well as anyone else their money is made off of prepaid ads.because people think they have lots of traffic so it has to be good.

[tony286]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Lots of programs are seeing a slow down in traffic, mostly from Webmasters. Which creates a slow down in overall sales. However, that doesn't mean Programs don't have one or several sites, doing better today than they ever have.

So people posting ratios are good, sales are growing.. Isn't a lie, it's the truth. Just because you can't sling shit at the wall anymore and it stick, doesn't mean people aren't doing well.

i seriously doubt anyone is doing better than they ever have unless they just started this year.

[Bossman]

October has been fewer sales, but no surprise, since surfers wood is getting killed by both election and bank crisis - lucky one of them will be over by 5th of November, which should return some of the surfers back to their regular wanking sessions. The bank crisis have not hit the "the real economy" that hard, but the media is keeping pounding that drum like it was the end of the world - playing their part in the spreading the crisis from the banks into the consumers (fucking ignorant media asshats)... maybe a new president will make people also calm down with the economy crisis hype, but it will be a few months before the new president will be at his new desk, so who knows...

Anyway general numbers we are seeing shows 20% more cancels (meaning if we had 5 cancels in september, then we had 6 cancels in october), and fewer signups (meaning if we 6 signups in september, then we had 5 signups in october). Now some niches have been hit harder than others, which I suspect is due to the different income groups (mature, bdsm/bondage, gay etc. are usual frequented by higher income groups which is not hit as hard, as most of cookiecutter vanilla porn).

[tony286]

another thing rebills not going thru,seeing more and more. cc companies are cutting back on open credit

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by tony404

i seriously doubt anyone is doing better than they ever have unless they just started this year.

I said sites doing better, and I know several that are having the best year yet, and they aren't new sites.

Almost every program that has had a drop in sales, has seen a drop in Webmaster traffic. And that's a pure all out fact.

They blame Tubes, Piracy, even the Eco - when they have taken a 20-50% drop in Webmaster traffic and have no real Internal traffic, which is the "real" problem with almost every program taking a drop.

Originally Posted by tony404

you know as well as anyone else their money is made off of prepaid ads.because people think they have lots of traffic so it has to be good.

Not all tubes sell ad spaces..

If someone buys prepaid ads, and they don't produce, they don't buy them anymore. If the tubes are producing sales, they buy again, meaning every argument about tubes is wrong.

And very few people, will ever advertise on illegal tubes. So the pool of Sponsors they have is very limited.. being so, they will dry up the fastest and have no place to go. But since people do buy porn that also visit illegal tubes, this clearly isn't the only way they create sales

Some people need to rethink the tube theories.

[tony286]

then they must know some type of magic that someone is going to buy membership on a site that gives away 100's of full scenes.i think even if it didnt make a advertiser money because of the sheer numbers of traffic they keep with the ad buys.also sites having record numbers and been around for a long time unless i saw numbers with my own eyes i find that hard to believe because rebills not going thru effect numbers even if new sign ups were at record breaking numbers.

[rayzor]

I think the ecomony will really shake up the adult industry... Like what is happening to mainstream. All the smaller sponsors will either whither and die or get gobbled up by the bigger sponsors. I'm guessing by next year, there will be a lot less sponsors left.

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by tony404

then they must know some type of magic that someone is going to buy membership on a site that gives away 100's of full scenes.i think even if it didnt make a advertiser money because of the sheer numbers of traffic they keep with the ad buys.also sites having record numbers and been around for a long time unless i saw numbers with my own eyes i find that hard to believe because rebills not going thru effect numbers even if new sign ups were at record breaking numbers.

So you probably wouldn't believe me if I told you those white label dvd/vod links on the Tubes is where they actually make the money. They can produce 100+ sales a day, from one tiny text link.

I'm telling you guys, this tube argument is beyond stupid at this point.



Traffic is traffic man, if you get your traffic, your sales WILL go up, well pending your site doesn't totally blow ass. If programs took a drop in Webmaster traffic, sales went down. But if you have your own traffic, 1 sale is worth 5 webmsater sales, money wise.

So if you dropped 50 sales a day in Webmasters, you only need 10 more in-house sales to cover the gap. And with less total exposure to you, you have a higher chance of converting the traffic that you know and understand.

If you need programs that have sites that are rocking the doors, older, growing still. Largest sales months this year, largest rebills, biggest money, ect.. even recently.

Check out http://www.dukedollars.com and http://www.brutalbucks.com

[TheDoc]

You know Tony.. Webmasters, maybe even you - and I admit, even me a little.. We push the same group of sponsors, all the time.

I just recently got back into gallery post sites, fun to sling that easy traffic again. One "MAJOR" thing I noticed, was the majority, easily 75% of all gallery posts & tubes... Use the same sponsors, the same galleries, the same titles, the same desc, the same feeds, the same everything. It's a duplicate, with a different skin, repeated 1000's of times.

I can totally see and understand why Webmaster traffic is down, and why Programs are getting less Webmaster traffic.

Webmasters complain, complain, complain.. but then you see them ask for flash videos that they can upload to a tube, so again... they can have the exact same content, titles, thumbnails.. that everyone already has.

Adapt or die - isn't about accepting piracy.

[teomaxxx]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

With every surfer going to Tubes, lots to illegal tubes. And "nobody" is buying once they can get it all for free..

It's almost shocking to me that they can still be in business. Some for almost 2 years. Come on, we all know for a fact from this post and most others - that nobody on illegal tube sites buys anything.

It's a pure 100% leach of porn, never buy again, period! Our Industry is doooomed!

Clearly all Tube owners are stupid people running at a loss, just for the sake of spending money. It's the new business model...

it was probably Fris, who wrote about some big tube site not being able to live without pre-paid adverts. Big tubes, with stolen 20 min movies, are probably low-margin business, so I would belive him.
Dont you remember that article about some guy with xtube or whatever was his name, running his site with almost no profit, while hoping to get 20 milion bucks from some vivid.com? It was posted here several times...

[Agent 488]

Originally Posted by rayzor

I think the ecomony will really shake up the adult industry... Like what is happening to mainstream. All the smaller sponsors will either whither and die or get gobbled up by the bigger sponsors. I'm guessing by next year, there will be a lot less sponsors left.

seems like lots of small programs were sold off this year - also noticing many freesites owners have sold off their shit or just given up.

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by teomaxxx

it was probably Fris, who wrote about some big tube site not being able to live without pre-paid adverts. Big tubes, with stolen 20 min movies, are probably low-margin business, so I would belive him.
Dont you remember that article about some guy with xtube or whatever was his name, running his site with almost no profit, while hoping to get 20 milion bucks from some vivid.com? It was posted here several times...

At the same time people open paysites and programs, and go belly up with plenty of traffic being sent to them. Just because a few morons can't figure it out, doesn't mean they all didn't. Hell, content plugins are like 100% profit, and they still have gone belly up.

[BradM]

It's going to be a terrible december.
Don't even TRY to tell me it will be good because "people get computers for christmas" people havent had that in 6 years for fuck sakes.

[D Ghost]

Originally Posted by Persius

Think again,

lol

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by BradM

It's going to be a terrible december.
Don't even TRY to tell me it will be good because "people get computers for christmas" people havent had that in 6 years for fuck sakes.

Oh I think this Dec-Feb is going to the a serious Industry clean out. Unless the Eco does turn around some, because Obama gets elected.. Maybe? Ahh, still going to be hellish tight for all industries of this Country.

[mynameisjim]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Lots of programs are seeing a slow down in traffic, mostly from Webmasters. Which creates a slow down in overall sales. However, that doesn't mean Programs don't have one or several sites, doing better today than they ever have.

So people posting ratios are good, sales are growing.. Isn't a lie, it's the truth. Just because you can't sling shit at the wall anymore and it stick, doesn't mean people aren't doing well.

I never said nobody is doing good. You can always grow faster than an industry is declining. Look at Southwest airlines, they ran a profitable business for a decade while the rest of the airline industry was in decline. Although it did finally catch up to them last quarter. The point is, I'm very much aware you can succeed in declining market. My sales are up over what they were last year but I don't come on here calling people idiots, I can see the industry has serious pressure on it. I'm succeeding but It will catch up to me if things don't change.

But the point remains that porn is not nearly as recession resistant as it once was and it is due to the free content on illegal tube sites. Are tube sites doing well? I don't know. I'm starting to see some of them get involved in some very shady billing practices, things they were not doing several months ago. Are they just getting greedy or they are feeling some pressure? Only time will tell.

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by mynameisjim

I never said nobody is doing good. You can always grow faster than an industry is declining. Look at Southwest airlines, they ran a profitable business for a decade while the rest of the airline industry was in decline. Although it did finally catch up to them last quarter. The point is, I'm very much aware you can succeed in declining market. My sales are up over what they were last year but I don't come on here calling people idiots, I can see the industry has serious pressure on it. I'm succeeding but It will catch up to me if things don't change.

But the point remains that porn is not nearly as recession resistant as it once was and it is due to the free content on illegal tube sites. Are tube sites doing well? I don't know. I'm starting to see some of them get involved in some very shady billing practices, things they were not doing several months ago. Are they just getting greedy or they are feeling some pressure? Only time will tell.

See, your sales are growing.. Bad eco, bad money, bad gov, all that.. and Tubes - and your sales are up. Traffic baby... it makes all the bad numbers better!

Southwest isn't really in a decline. They made a bad investment choice and purchased Gas thinking it wouldn't drop, which is costing them in the stock game. However, they are still actually kicking the teeth in of every airline.


Tubes are going to feel the pressure, probably feel it first, even though they can get volume which is god. And volume produces sales, period. If the Eco really bottoms out, they will probably bust.

But if it gets to that point, we are all pretty screwed.

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by mynameisjim

My sales are up over what they were last year

Nice looking site you have btw... http://www.brokeamateurs.com/tour.html

[BVF]

Originally Posted by BradM

It's going to be a terrible december.
Don't even TRY to tell me it will be good because "people get computers for christmas" people havent had that in 6 years for fuck sakes.

If on December 26, sales don't explode like they ALWAYS have, then I'll believe that...

[czarina]

sales on my paysites have been very, very low lately. So yes, things are messed up in the adult industry, because mostly my mature sites used to convert greatly.

[HerPimp]

No more finger pointing.

[greg80]

This has nothing to do with recession. My main stream sales are booming, adsense ads payout is record high. Sales are down due to free porn and they will not get back up untill tubes are killed.

[AmeliaG]

Porn is recession-proof. Which means this is a depression and not a recession.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by greg80

This has nothing to do with recession. My main stream sales are booming, adsense ads payout is record high. Sales are down due to free porn and they will not get back up untill tubes are killed.

Bingo. I went to the movies and saw that new Twilight movie with my daughter. Every seat was packed at $7.50 a seat and everybody had a $5 coke and $5 bag of popcorn.

Recessions and even the great depression were always good times for the entertainment business. People look for an escape. We should be making bank right now. Unfortunately, it's all being given away for free.

Nobody can compete with FREE if you're selling "generic" porn shot out of Porn Valley.

EDIT: I'd also like to point out that on July 3rd I was at the Lesnar/Carwin fight. I paid $1,000 per ticket for Claudia-Marie and I.
There were over 1,000 of those $1,000 ticket seats. And the mid arena seats were $750. The shit seats were very expensive as well.
It was a total sell out.

Porn is being killed because it's all being given away for free. Period.

[AmeliaG]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Bingo. I went to the movies and saw that new Twilight movie with my daughter. Every seat was packed at $7.50 a seat and everybody had a $5 coke and $5 bag of popcorn.

Recessions and even the great depression were always good times for the entertainment business. People look for an escape. We should be making bank right now. Unfortunately, it's all being given away for free.

Nobody can compete with FREE if you're selling "generic" porn shot out of Porn Valley.

EDIT: I'd also like to point out that on July 3rd I was at the Lesnar/Carwin fight. I paid $1,000 per ticket for Claudia-Marie and I.
There were over 1,000 of those $1,000 ticket seats. And the mid arena seats were $750. The shit seats were very expensive as well.
It was a total sell out.

Porn is being killed because it's all being given away for free. Period.

Twilight and that fight are exceptions. Movie marketing budgets are actually kind of important to the non-adult side of my business and the mainstream movie biz is hurting.