ruff

The value of Bitcoin is whatever value I place on it. Simple. The value of Bitcoin is whatever anyone else places on it. Just like anything. There is no need to make something more difficult than it is. If you don't think Bitcoin has any value, so what? It is only what is valuable to me that really counts. I'm surprised some of you don't understand that simple concept. Bitcoin only has value to those that want it to have value. Any other arguments don't really matter.

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BarryB

It's going to crash again when people start realizing USDT (tether) has absolutely no value and the big exchanges will start crashing down.

2MuchMark

You are essentially right, but missing the point.

The value, is what OTHER people will pay for it. For example, you might buy some btc today because other people will pay more for it tomorrow. This is why if you buy a coin today it would cost you as much as it does, and why the person who bought it last year is making so much money selling it.

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ruff

Sorry I'm not missing the point at all. As I said the value of Bitcoin is whatever anyone else places on it. That includes the buyer and that includes the seller.

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jscott

are you saying people are stupid... or are you stupid?

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ruff

Who gives a fuck about Tether?

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thommy

but exactly that is the point.
there was NOBODY interested in bitcoin til there was obviously a flood of buyers who wanted to buy it and pushed the curve.

but these buyers where the ones with the black money. they WANTED the hype.
and the volatility shows you that they bought and sold - what made the money white because it was provable made with a rising bitcoin rate.

and as they can not buy their own money back they wanted this rocket curve what makes everybody blind.
in the start there was only blackmoney invested - but the clean money came with the hype and that made it easy to sell them again and show everybody where the money is from.

this is SO OBVIOUS !
and even the countries and governments accepted it. they never had a better chance to get the black money out of the money cycle PLUS receive tax for it.

and the game is NOT over yet. the volatility is still there and this is the reason why you still can make money on the short term.
but the general trend looks like life cycle has moved into the opposite direction - back to reality.

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druid66

hype could be started by criminals Thommy but it doesn't mean it won't be revolution.
i think we are witness of new age being born ;)

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thommy

you are right - we are witnesses of a new age and crypto will be a goal - but under control and made from governments and maybe a few big banks who will give the whole thing kind of security. because money can never work like that. people can and should not renounce to buy a bicycle today because they hope to buy a private jet with the same amount tomorrow.

it will just replace the money we know - not more and not less.

bitcoins name will be present in the history books next to nicola tesla.

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druid66

i just hope you are wrong.
i love idea of decentralized currency and i hope they will never be able to control it.

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Jel

no surprise that a guy who is all for more government overeach/oversight/meddling/fucking everything up as usual, fails to 'get' crypto.

thommy

you misunderstood - I am not AGAINST crypto - I really don´t care how you burn down your money. if you want to play monopoly with your real money - do it.
I really don´t know what you are hoping from that and how should that make the world any better.

if you do not understand that money should be the equivalent for productivity and that it can not work that the productivity stays the same but the equivalent goes up and up - than you did not understand the basics about economy.

go and play your crypto game and learn the lesson.

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VRPdommy

Let's see just how that works...
We De-regulated the savings and loans in the 80's... where are they now ?
We De-regulated the Banks in 1999 with the repeal of Glass-Steagall...
Took them only 8 years to trash the economy world wide. Don't laugh, you are still paying for it. You just don't know it.
We De-regulated the airlines in 1978, many went belly-up the rest merged into major players with major job losses and services to many cities lost. No competition to many routes.
We De-regulated the Electric Co's and in 6 short years, my electric bill doubles while I use 50% less electric. Soon to be much less with the use of solar.... unless the electric co's find a way to lobby to regulate me.
We De-regulated the the media in 1996 and now nobody can tell real news from just views.
But it did include regulation on the internet that has since been stripped away.

Yea... it's working great.

People are so easily convinced the government is bad and forget just why many of those regulation were put in place in the first place. It wasn't from good behavior.

thommy

he does not hate regulation in general - he hates only the regulation on the issues he wants to make money with (btw. mafia hates that too)

this kind of guys simply do not understand where things going when they are not regulated.

in case of bitcoins and all this other kidgames it does not matter.
it is the same as poker or lottery. the winners get paid from the losers.
and if there are a few who won MUCH than there must be many who lost much - it is
quite simple.

bitcoin and co will not be able to cause an economy crisis - same as chips from sand´s casinos in las vegas can´t.
it will just make a few million 100 million people poorer and a few hundred thousand richer. because at the end of the day the money what went in and the money what went out will be REAL MONEY - and than they will love it. and sure not ALL money what was paid in will be paid out to the players because the "casino" made his part and all the fees what have been paid will be also reduced from the payout.

so the calculation is:
100% people paying 100% REAL MONEY in
this 100% will be reduced for fees
80% of the REAL MONEY will be paid out to 10% of the people

this is nothing else than a new form of gambling industry.
as long as many players are on the table the pot becomes bigger and when they leave
some players will have more some players lost all and some will have the same money as they had when they came and the pot will be empty.

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Jel

do you have any idea of the amount of people outside the banking system? Do you have any idea how much crypto is going to help those people, when now (after evolution of crypto, we are still in the extremely early stages) all they need is a cellphone? Do you have any idea of the amount of money even us first worlders shell out in fees to move our own money around? Of course you do, but for whatever reason ignore all that.

Do you even understand most in crypto are not trying to replace fiat (impossible)?

You are too busy spouting off about what a great economist you are, and so blinkered in what you THINK are other people's viewpoints, goals, temporary strategies (or even long term ones), and sitting up on your high horse of 'look at me I have an economics degree' that you miss almost every single fucking point others have.

'play your crypto game'... hahahaha, yeah, like nerds who played their bulletin board game


and morons who played games with steam instead of understanding horses were the be all and end all of transportation

Jel

Because I'm against government overreach doesn't mean I'm against government. I'm just against 90% of their shit.

I highly suggest you read 'Life after the state' and see just how great gov't interference & overreach has worked out historically, and how it continues to hinder us. Ofc, there's actually zero chance you will, so you carry on rolling over and having your tummy tickled, while some of us choose to find alternative ways of moving our money from A to B, and see how that same process can help literally billions of people globally.

My comment was more about the mindset that leads to thommy's myopic 'reasoning' that sees him post as if he has authority in every crypto thread, and with that in mind: Here's the funny thing: most on this board who are in crypto welcome regulation within it, it's inevitable, and not necessarily a bad thing. My point was, that people can be so blinded by their stance of having the gov't involved in everything, and their need for that, that they are unable to see crypto for what it is until said government(s) give them the nod.

Govt's WILL get involved heavily at some point, but to dismiss crypto based on a grandiose display of 'i know economics' in every fucking crypto thread is dumb as shit. 9 years in to a disruptive tech that hasn't even scratched the surface of what it can do, is used by something like 1% or some insanely low number, and the tech is still here, the usage is growing, and the naysayers are all screaming "it'll never catch on"... much like I did with mobile porn, much like blockbusters did about streaming video (anyone remember how utterly shit that was back in 2006 or so?), and much like everyone did about every bit of disruptive tech ever.

90% of it amounted to fuck all and faded away (betamax anyone), so literally the only thing going for the naysayers is the law of averages, and that's more akin to 'bitcoin will die' than 'crypto will die'.

There's a long list of arguments on both sides, but to 100% state as fact that cryto will fail (or succeed) because of an economics degree is so egotistical that I can't think of the words to convey what a jackass thommy is (in this context... I know he is the shit in other areas). The possibilities and opportunities with crypto are so far and wide reaching that only the closed minded and/or fearful would be jumping in every crypto thread to shout about the impending failure it will be, instead of seeing it for the opportunity it is, both on a personal financial level, and a hippy-type-make-the-world-a-better-place one by those with greater vision than anyone on this hate-filled negative shithole of a cesspool (sorry owners, I promise I did use to like this place) will ever have.

Uncertainty I get, ego-based horseshit spouted as gospel (hi again thommy) annoys the fuck out of me.

thommy

i have a master degree in economy science - what are your skills ?

unfortunately, you contradict yourself here - because if crypto would replace fiat against WHAT do you want to change it ?

crypto WILL replace fiat FOR SURE - but under other circumstances

I just want to give you a very simple example why crypto can never be a lead currency or replace an existing currency.

as you know the whole trading market is based on sales in the future. so if you agree today a price for a product in a currency it have to have this price when it is produced.

this was the reason why europe came with the Euro because even the small differences in values between currencies produced an incalculable risk for buyer and seller.

if you replace fiat with crypto - the price have to be stable and that means: say good bye to make profit with it.

on what school did you make this degree if you do not even understand the SIMPLEST facts ? you are talking about this issue as a 5 year old boy. i do not believe that you EVER have seen a university from inside and if so you possibly was sick on the important lessons.


i did not tell you to stop it - i even think you SHOULD play the game because that will be the one and only way to make you understand that you can´t act against logic rules.

and i say that you are right - crypto will come but it will not be bitcoin and it will not be any other of this dreamer products what are ignoring the reality and the facts.

if you ever paid for the school you was in - tell them to give you your money back - they failed !

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Jel

This insane 'contradicted yourself' statement. That's like saying because people believed email would be a better form of communication in a lot of areas, and would benefit billions of people, that those same people are stating snail mail would be replaced entirely.

Show me where I said crypto will replace fiat, anywhere, and I'll concede I was wrong. Though I've never thought that, much less said it. And that's your main problem... you seem unable to grasp this simple fact about most in crypto, and probably 99.99% of people actually on this board in crypto (possibly even 100% of them).

why do you think I said 'impossible' when referring to any notion of crypto replacing fiat?

Bizarrely, you then contradict *your* self when you say with total conviction "crypto WILL replace fiat FOR SURE". Man, you are without doubt a very intelligent guy, but maybe instead of confusing everyone on here, spend that hour a day brushing up on your English - that's not a dig at your ability to speak the language, shit, I only speak one, but fuck me, your level of English is about as good as my level of economics. I think that's why there is such a huge level of headscratching with the majority of your posts, probably from your side as well.

btw, congrats on your economics degree, I had no idea.

My hour of posting on gfy per month is almost up, so enjoy your day

DBS.US

It's not a coin, it's a string of numbers. You string of numbers crazy people buy for $10,000

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jscott

some would call you a walking bag of skin and organs... others may call you a brother, or son, or cousin

what are you?

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nikki99

is back I have almost same money as before the crash

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VRPdommy

Well, if company's would behave, the overreach would not need to take place, would it.
They don't do it for the fun of it or to destroy biz.
Sorry if all I ask for in life is clean air, safe food and the fair ability to compete in the marketplace without being held over the coals and extorted just because they can.
While I do admit over regulation occurs, the fix for it is not removing it all.
Fix what is broken.

Cyber money has become a tool for many to evade taxes. I am quite certain this will be stopped. I want it to stop. For each that avoids taxes, my share of paying for services that everyone, including the evaders, enjoys goes up.

Yes, greed is good. It makes capitalism work. But unregulated greed is very bad for the majority.
It all sounds good till you are on the receiving end of the screw.

Jel

I agree, and said as much.

worst 'argument' ever. Cash is a tool for many to evade taxes. The internet is a tool many use to steal from people. xyz is a tool for many to do abc, which I don't like, so the sooner my caring gov't bans all that shit the better. lol. <--- Sorry to patronise, but we have now moved from thommy's economic genius enabling him being able to foretell current and future tech, to just hoping the govt will ban something you don't like, because some baddies do a thing with it.

Fuck what it can & will do for humanity, because some people will evade tax, and even though when more regs come in (welcomed by most, though certainly not all, in crypto) and it gets harder to evade tax because it's actually less anonymous than cash, there's a fear that those in power won't have enough to invade countries, waste billions on bureaucracy to the detriment of health services (Hi nhs), and too much other wasteful shit I can't be bothered to go and grab examples of.

Sounds totally reasonable.

ps you think you'll actually pay noticeably less tax if zero people evaded it? That's some funny shit.

NakedWomenTime

It is the increasing number of people prepared to accept Bitcoin as a form of payment in exchange for goods or services.

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The Porn Nerd

Human beings are SO funny! Whenever human beings - those that run businesses, industries and governments - get into the "we can police ourselves, we don't need regulations" what they are REALLY saying is: "Get out of my way I want to do whatever the fuck I want in order to make profits, consequences (and other humans and planet Earth) be damned!"

Why is the choice ALWAYS too much regulation vs. NO regulations at all? Why can't we have a sensible, logical and practical balance? Oh right, cause the powerful are greedy, sociopathetic fucks where nothing is ever enough. Got it.

Human beings are really amazing, aren't we?

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