Grapesoda

he stated that killing 150 people for a drone shot down is a bad idea... I agree... go trump!!!!

Rochard

We don't know what Trump. He lies about everything. We don't even know if a strike was ordered.

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Grapesoda

so it is okay to kill 150 folks over a toy plane then? do you think the cock socks who put the nasty shit in the park by your place deserve death as well?

RedFred

Body count is always presented when different options are shown to the President. How can you be this stupid to think otherwise?

Phoenix

lol

everything is a conspiracy with you loons

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2MuchMark

... and this freaks me out. Every Trump supporter lets him get away with endless lies. What will happen when the next conflict comes up and war breaks out somewhere? How can anyone, including allies, trust that anything Trump says will be true? And if he lies and people get killed, what happens then? Will Trump hold himself responsible? (of course not). Will Trump supporters maybe, possibly, think for a split second that maybe they were wrong? Probably not.

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Grapesoda

stop reading DNC propaganda, you'll be much happier

Rochard

You completely missed the point.

We have no idea what actually happened.

Trump lies about everything. Every fucking thing. So suddenly we are supposed to trust him about this? Was there an attack? If there was, did Trump call it off at "the last moment"? Was Trump not aware that people would be killed? Was Trump not aware that his actions over the course of the past three years might have started a war that will lead to the thousands or tens of thousands of Americans dying in yet another Middle East war?

Trump made Iran an issue as campaign promise. It's identical to NAFTA and our border - he is going to fix a problem that doesn't exist, and the truth is he just makes it worse. NAFTA makes things worse - it has automatic built in tariffs that will increase prices for Americans - and most likely wont' be signed by all three countries if any. The border is another example - not a problem under Obama, not suddenly we are running concentration camps. Don't tell me we aren't; We are locking kids up and not giving them toothpaste. Same exact thing with Iran. Iran was handled, and now they are attacking oil ships in the gulf and shooting down our drones. Trump wants to bring them back to the negotiating table to come up with a new deal that is going to be worse than the old one.

But tell us again how Trump is making America great again.

By the way, shooting at an American plane - even a drone - is an act of war. Assuming everything Trump is telling us true, the United States was attacked and Trump did.... nothing.

#winning

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bronco67

That entire stream of consciousness word salad he gave Chuck Todd was something that never happened. You want to know how I know it was something he made up? Firstly, that doesn't even sound like a plausible situation that he wasn't originally briefed on possible casualties.

But the biggest reason we all should know that story never took place is that almost everything Trump says is a lie.

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Scott McD

So what you're saying then is Trump is damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't. Basically...

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DraX

Libs wants to deploy nukes for a shot down drone, just admit it.

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Rochard

This is exactly what Trump always does - He makes big promises but makes a mess out of things.

Took a look at what he did with NAFTA. For all of the faults with NAFTA, it was working. Trump vowed to "fix" NAFTA (which was working) and the end result is we spent a lot of time and effort making a handful of minor changes that will have little positive effect, while doing a lot of damage. One of the biggest changes of NAFTA is that people working in the automobile industry will need to be pay wages similar to what American employees make. If not, automatic tariffs go into effect. The automobile makers aren't going to pay their employees more so the tariffs will be automatic; We will be paying more for our cars because of this.

Same thing with healthcare. He promised to fix healthcare and just fucked it up without giving us a solution. Obamacare, which was working great, is on life support. We had more people on healthcare than ever before and Trump fucked it up.

Look at what is happening on the border. We didn't have a problem under Obama. Less people were coming, more people were getting deported. Trump came in, talked loudly about a wall, which caused people to come in droves thinking a wall was actually going to be built, and because of the changes made with our immigration process we actually locking people up in what looks like concentration camps and not allowing the something as basic as toothpaste.

It's the exact same this with Iran. We didn't have a problem with Iran under Obama. Trump quickly scratched the deal we made - which put the United States in violation of the deal btw - and now Iran is restarting it's nuclear program, attacking ships in the gulf, and now they are attacking our drones and shooting them down. Iran isn't stupid; They know we can't get into yet another war in the Middle East.

What is Trump going to do now? A small strike that will most likely escalate the situation in the gulf? Risk going to war because Trump himself fucked up a deal that was working? Or allow Iran to anything it wants?

Trump is unqualified to be in office.

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PR_Glen

The attack was put in place by him, then he decided against it.

I can understand you praising him for not attacking in that situation, just about everyone is content with that decision. But I can't understand how you are able to use this as fuel to 'own libs'.

What does the democratic party have to do with this at all?

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Busty2

Chump fucked himself with his incessant lies. Only his cult followers ignore this or are just to stupid to realize what a dishonest president they elected to power. He has absolutely zero idea of what he is doing or how to run a country. So yes 100% he is fucked whatever he does as most intelligent Americans do not believe a word he spews from his anal shaped mouth!

pimpmaster9000

there is never going to be peace in the middle east because israel can not afford a stable arab world where arabs integrate in to israel and outvote them...this is what happens when the west meddles in shit...iran will not be allowed to grow strong so war is inevitable...the military industrial lobby is too strong and americans are going to pay for this war as well...so is europe...even if europe takes no part, our side of the world will be flooded with 20-30million refugees because iran has 80million people...

iran will never yield to the USA because nobody asked americans shit and they are insane to think that anybody will ever listen to them...crazy americans LOL...war is coming because peace costs the military industrial complex too much...

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Rochard

So... A foreign power shoots a US Plane out of the sky (a multi million dollar drone) which is an act of war and... We do nothing?

Oh wait, Trump just put more sanctions on Iran. Again.

That will show them.

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bronco67

Actually...it will show them. Their economy is already on the verge of collapse.

More sanctions is the best move possible...as it's preferable to even a single American military person losing their life.

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VRPdommy

First... the drone invaded Iranian airspace, and they had every right to shoot it down.
While the waterway under it was international, the airspace was not. Name a country we allow fly in our airspace with military aircraft freely at will.

So, the blunder needed cover. It's a good excuse for not escalating it but the Senate told him he was not making any military attacks on this. And is why he reverted to economic sanctions.

Hey, I always think provoking and/or creating a war is a bad idea unless you can show me where our interest is and what the end game is intended to achieve.
Tit for Tat escalations is what lead to the Vietnam war... and Korea too.
Only one is over and we have not succeeded in either.

If he thinks he can achieve regime change in the remainder of his term, he is mistaken and we can almost guess the next admin (left or right) will not see this the same way. Not going to happen.

Just remember, all of this is brought to you by Israel and Saudi Arabia. Neither of which has our interest at heart. Not having the predominate military or economic potential, you adopt a big brother to do your fighting.

Obtaining a deal from the moderates in Iran is now going to be almost impossible for some time. Thanks donald.

So, I suppose he did the right thing not invading NK too ? ...LOL...

Rochard

It's economy has been tanking since Trump took office. Yet they just shot down a US drone.

I don't have a position on this yet; I can't - I don't know what happened. Trump lies about everything so I can trust a thing he says. In fact, the only thing I am "pretty sure" of is that whatever Trump said happened didn't happen. Why hasn't the Pentagon come out and said "This is what happened". Why hasn't the White House come out and say "This is what happened".

Here is a brilliant idea.....

Why doesn't the White House hold daily press briefings?

Trump, the Trump administration, and the Trump White House knows they cannot spin the fucking bullshit coming out of their mouths so... they just stopped.

This is disgusting at every level. It's vile.

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SilentKnight

Any world leader faced with the decision to go to war or not is damned if he does...damned if he doesn't.

crockett

Have you seen any pictures of a downed drone? Have you seen any proof a drone was even shot down? All we have is Trump claiming it happened. No proof..

With that said, I believe there is enough evidence that yes a drone was shot down because "clincher" Iran said they did it. Yet what Iran said is that the drone violated their air space as did a US military transport plane.


The kicker is, with out Iran being honest and stating that yes they shot the drone down, there would be absolutely zero proof it even happened, because Trump's admin has provided none.

So who do we believe Grape? Iran who is probably going to lie about something or Trump who lies constantly about even the most petty things?

Lying matters..

Scott McD

Also true...

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crockett

Plot twist.. a US president can not declare war on anyone. Only Congress has that power. All these wars have been started by not calling them wars..

The US has not had a officially declared war since WW2. Everything since then has been "resolutions authorizing military force"..

Second plot twist.. every single one was started by a Republican with exception of scumbag Johnson and Vietnam..

Clintion had the Bosnia thing but that was a UN action not US.

SilentKnight

My point notwithstanding...splitting hairs on terminology aside - let's call it "military action."

Rochard

I disagree with you on this.

A country's legal border at sea extends 12 nautical miles from land. This is called "territorial water". This is both in the water, and above the water - there is no difference between the two. If you can sail a ship in it, you can fly over that ship in a plane. Most countries - including the United States and Iran - are governed by the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea.

You seem to believe that we can sail ships in the Persian Gulf but not fly over it, which is not the case. We sail ships through the Persian Gulf without going into their 12 mile zone, and we can fly aircraft in the Persian Gulf without going into their 12 mile zone.

In this case, Iran seems to be saying it over their ocean and the United States is saying it was five miles away.

Here is a map that shows Iran's territorial waters where we cannot fly over, and where the US says the drone was.

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VRPdommy

https://aviation.stackexchange.com/q...ulf-determined

VRPdommy

Funny... no matter if it was shot down 12 or 13 miles out at sea, I bet they do not send more to that edge.
It was a intentional provocation. They knew what the reaction would be.
But they would be likely to see (or not) a SR-91 if it really mattered. They are not likely to shoot it down if they can see it at all. Intentional provocation !

The Senate has tied his hands for the moment. So we are likely to see more staged incidents.

crockett

The problem with he said she said is you have to trust one party to believe them if no truth is given from either side. Right now we can not trust Iran because they lie but we can also not trust Trump's admin because they lie..

Lying matters..

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Rochard

We can't trust a single word Trump says. It's gotten so bad that they cannot spin his bullshit any longer, so they've just stopped having press briefings.

Now after nearly three years of this bullshit, we finally have something important where actual lives matter and... We have no idea what to believe.

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VRPdommy

Come to the negotiating table and take the deal we feed you or else !

He already broke a deal. Why should he be trusted for a new one. Especially after witnessing the same in Mexico twice.
Where is 'OUR' honer ?

BTW... the only thing the Iranians are trying to do is outlast donald. 18m 2go
They are smart enough to not provoke us, but they will defend their self.
Who would expect anything less.

pimpmaster9000

the invaders have destroyed the entire region...iran is right not to trust 1 single thing the invaders say or do...

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King Mark

Like I said in another thread:

Based on the OP, it worked. Easy redhat support.

Vendzilla

Lol, listen to Rochard, he wants to go to war.
Anti aircraft missles funded by Obama

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think about that

Grapesoda

rock your team voted a man as woman of the year.. . so your thinking is pretty suspect right from the jump, plus you have openly admitted you are a BIGOT refusing to believe anything trump says... how about if I said black people NEVER tell the truth? are you able to see the analogy?

Vendzilla

Wrong, the deal we had with Iran was they wouldn't develop ICBMs, they did that. Their plan has always and will always be to promote terrorism in the region.

Grapesoda

mark you have a reality perception issue.. your team did vote a man as woman of the year and you are a total self admitted bigot, and possibly not that clever... and arrogant to even thing we care about your opinion.

as of RIGHT NOW trump has decided not to kill 150 INNOCENT iranians.. I know you do not give one hot fuck about them. but you might be able to believe this: the 150 iranians sure the fuck care and I care as well

Grapesoda

well the DNC media outreach organizations will target trump, as always. invent issues and blame trump as always and tell lies and do everything possible to degarde trumps image.

think like this PR Glen, people that view DNC press releases, have NO OTHER source of information... think of it like this: cork writes ALL the press releases and mark and bronk and rock and you? accept them as gospel. other than religious fanatics I've never seen anyone or one group so deluded and so committed to keeping a closed mind.

that is BIGOTRY

Grapesoda

I only care the 150 people were not killed.

Grapesoda

actually we do, you are like a 4 year old. you believe we all think just like you. not the way of the world bro. and actually I do not thing the you do think, at least not on any level like the rest of us. you read the DNC media press releases and 'parrot' them. that doesn't qualify asd thinking.

Grapesoda

yes it does...

Grapesoda

I read all the filthy, vulgar stuff say about anyone that dares to disagree with you... unlike you I do believe human life has value other than 'agreeing with everything you say'

it matters that 150 innocents are not killed because their leader is a tool. that matters

Vendzilla

Scary that I was off the coast of Iran almost 40 years ago in the Navy and they have not changed their direction since then.
I don't care what they say, been lying for decades.
Trump has no real reason to lie and by holding off on attacking, he is setting up Iran for compromise due to no other country is going to back them if they don't come to the table now.

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think about that

directfiesta

ICBM missile technology was not part of the multi-national agreement that USA signed and reneggued on:

All what needed to be done, as Iranian enjoyed the reliefs of sanctions, was to start the negotiation of partt II of the agreement, adressing this and giving back something ...

Trump, wanting to wipe out any existence of the kenyan president, just pulled out ( name me a deal he was not pulled out or threaten of ) and is putting the world in harms way just for his over inflated ego ....

If war does erupt, expect Iran to bring it to your continent , and cause massive dommage and hurt,

Rochard

Are you drunk? WTF does this even mean "and actually I do not thing the you do think, at least not on any level like the rest of us"?

I don't read anything the from the DNC. I am not a member of the DNC. I am not subscribed to any of their groups on FB. At this point I don't even watch the news on TV. I read the news online from multiple sources. I don't go to one news source, but instead get news from ALL sources so I have a balanced opinion.

I'm sorry... Trump lies about everything. Every fucking thing. "I didn't have sex with Stormy Daniels". Then "I had sex with her, but we didn't pay her anything". Then "I had sex with her, my attorney paid her off, but I didn't know about it". Then we hear the recording of Trump discussing the payment. Every time we turn around it's lies.

It's so bad they don't have press conferences any more.

Don't believe me? Read for yourself?
https://www.politifact.com/personali...yruling/false/

I'm sorry but all we have a statement from someone who lies constantly. No one believes him. Oddly enough, no one else has come forward to confirm anything. Even stranger still, the Pentagon hasn't had a press conference about it either.

Just mass confusion. This is the new norm from the Trump administration.

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Rochard

He has no reason to lie at all. Ever. But he does. Every day.

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pimpmaster9000

there is no reason for the to change their minds...you were shit 40 years ago and you are shit today...they do not like you with very very good reason...the reason is: you are shit

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King Mark

Turns out the drone was in Iranian airspace.

Which = trump lied, and almost killed "150" innocents over it.

Now trump wants kudos from his fan base for almost, but not, killing a lot of people over his lie.

And even tho it's clear the u.s. is instigating Iran, Iran should be thankful they didnt get deaded yet tho?

Is this the United states of the mafia?

Gotta love inbred redhat logic.

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Vendzilla

So putting mines on oil tankers is ok with you? Are you fucking kidding, you can't be that fucking stupid

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Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

Rochard

Who put mines on a tanker? Why would Iran be putting mines on a tanker when they have submarines with torpedoes? You were a submariner once - you know this. Why Iran put mines on tankers knowing very well they will be spotted and photographed when they can just launch a torpedo without being seen?

It just doesn't make sense.

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Vendzilla

Sense or not, that's what happened

https://www.apnews.com/5484dc4a51644fa9839546e1cd7bf89f