Unemployment rate at around 10% and whats next?
 

After the holidays, I sense a huge slowdown coming...:2 cents:

Change!!!

depends if the incoming congress can make changes that will make the businessmen of the US more confident about expanding and investing than they have been in the last 4 years

Great time to raise taxes. Merry Christmas.

actually the economy is improving. The only reason why the rate went up is that more people decided to actively look for work which you only do if you have a sense there are companies hiring.

You continue to prove your stupidity and ignorance. There is nothing improving in our economy. It is still going downhill.

real unemployment 20ish and use same stats as great the depression the same.

Many parallels to the early 1930s ... more to the point, most people are familiar with the Oct-1929 stock market crash, but what most don't realize is that the nadir (lowest point) for the U.S. stock market, and the economy as a whole, came nearly 3 years later in July-1932...

For those touting "recovery", note that it took well into the 1950s for many caught up in the Great Depression. Not many people are prepared to wait out a 25 year economic slump.

The true, as in reality, unemployment rate is more around 20%.

And of those working, many are earning less than in the past while prices on consumables (food, gas, healthcare, etc) and taxes continue to increase.

Bottom line, barring some major global changes (ie. drought, pandemic, WWIII, etc), there's going to be little, or even negative, economic growth going forward for the foreseeable future. Read up on the Great Depression, and that gives one clues as to what businesses / strategies to pursue.

Ron

Unless of course you actually look at the facts and you see that since Jan of 2009 the GDP has grown significantly, consumer spending it up, disposable income is up and exports are up.

While this doesn't mean that things are great, it means that things are improving. There are many economist who now say there is almost no chance of a double dip recession happening and that unemployment will slowly come down over the next couple of years.

So a more accurate statement is that the economy has leveled off to some degree and is slowly improving.

I'm sure for the Union coffers that donated to Obama's run for president, it's going great

But where iw the HOPE?

Where is the CHANGE!

I don't know about you but I'M HOPING FOR CHANGE!

Please show me consumer spending data from January 2009 to today. Then please explain how GDP growing is based on artificial growth/stimulus and nothing else. And finally, exports are barely up because we continue to debase the dollar. Prices have risen steadily, commodities are up, foreclosures keep increasing, etc. This is a depression.

These are the same moronic mainstream economists who suggest throwing money at the problem will actually fix the problem.
That's not what the numbers say.

Very educated response, props.

You do realize that we already spread the wealth around in this country and have done so for many many years before Obama right?

Here is how it works: The top 5% of wage earners in this country pay about 75-80% of the total taxes that are paid in this country. This means for every tax dollar spent 75-80cents of it comes from the rich. This money is then used to pave roads, provide schools, pay for police, fire and rescue, cover things like welfare, food stamps etc and pays for the military among many other things that many of us uses all the time.

So if you have a kid that goes to public school 75-80% of their education is funded by the rich. That is spreading the wealth. The rich are paying for things that most people would not be able to afford on their own.

full economic collapse is just around the corner. :2 cents:

I know that and my point was intended to be implied. Barack H.Obama and His Gang of Thugs intend to strip the "rich"; that is, those with a gross income of over $250K per year of much of that figure, thereby moving them downward into a sort of financial Twilight Zone; taxed as "rich" but ending up with less than those who effectively earn less.

Barack H.Obama couldn't run a lemonade stand, he has never run a business and outside of being paid as a "professor" and "community activist" has never held a real job and therefore has NO respect for those like us WHO WORK FOR A LIVING!

Go here for some info on consumer spending. The basics is that in Nov of 2010 the average consumer spending was $95 per day. That is up from $83 per day in the same month one year ago and better than the $90 per day in 2008.

For the GDP, aren't you one of the people who claim the stimulus didn't work? If so how can it then also be the only reason that the GDP has risen. I'm not an economist so I won't begin to say that I know every reason why the GDP has increased. Here is what I know. The GDP has grown. I'm sure the stimulus had something to do with it, but I'm also pretty sure there are other reasons.

You are right, foreclosures are still up. We had about a 5-7 year period where banks sold sub-primes like wildfire. We will continue to have foreclosures until most of those toxic loans have worked their way out of the system. [/QUOTE]


And it also includes economic researchers who do nothing but make predictions and study the economy, but make no policy. This includes ECRI who do nothing but study recessions and depressions and according to them they say there is next to no chance of a double dip recession.

well, actually it is what the numbers say. I never said everything is great, but things are leveling off as opposed to crashing. It doesn't mean we will never have trouble again nor does it mean that we are out of the water, but things are improving slowly.

So you also then must realize that if Obama gets the tax increase he wants all it will do is put the tax rate on the wealthiest back to where it was in the Clinton era right and the increase will be about 3-5%? The wealthy grew their wealth by leaps and bounds when Clinton was in the white house. I'm not advocating for huge increases in taxes on anyone, but if you think that the president is going to strip the rich of their wealthy you need to turn off whatever it is that you are listening to that is telling you that.

The rich have actually gotten more wealthy during the recession. Here is a good story. Pre-recession the richest 1% controlled 34.6% of the wealth in this country. They now control 35.6%. They will not be stripped of shit. If they lose money they just get their connected friends to pull off another bailout to replenish any lost money.

It's boring to read tribal rhetoric spouted over and over with nothing original added by the rhetors.

Let's see, what possible way could the country generate millions of decent jobs?

What are the sectors where potential growth is possible?

"GDP highlights
The small acceleration in real GDP primarily reflected a smaller decrease in net exports, an acceleration in inventory
investment, and a pick up in consumer spending for services. These contributions were partly offset by a
downturn in residential housing and a slowdown in business investment in equipment and software."

http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/nati...highlights.pdf

So, the amount of exports got smaller, as expected, but at a slower rate, the stores were buying for the holidays, and more people needed medical care or other services - is that what this is saying?

So, basically, the consumers spent a little more on comsumer goods?

Hmm, not a lot of info in the "officlal report". Ahh - and people saved a bit less...

"Personal saving
The personal saving rate?saving as a percent of disposable personal income?was 5.5 percent in the third
quarter, compared with 5.9 percent in the second quarter."

So, what do the two sides think are going to be the growth industries that create new jobs?

things may have leveled off, with the spender of last resort spending borrowed money, which leaves all of us better off than we might be.

but it's possible, this leveling off, because the economy dumped millions of unneeded workers.

leaving us with the problem of what to do with the 10-to-20 million or so unemployed and underemployed workers.

If the economy contracts again, millions more workers will have to be kicked off the bus. but, who knows, maybe it wont contract again.

but the one thing nobody is addressing is what part of the economy can be grown to employ the millions of unneeded workers this time? Clinton and Bush did it with bubbles - which we will do again - but what will the bubbles be based on this time around?

I think any real growth we have have as far as job and industry creation will be in the technology industries. We can't compete on a manufacturing front so we will have educate people and develop technology that we can sell or make for other people.

As a second part to my previous answer, I don't think it will come in any form of bubble but a slow growth. I think our new jobs will be things that will need at least 2 and more like 4 years of schooling to get so we will have to wait for that to happen.

wow..I wouldn't have thought that in a million years..since the industry is doing so fucking incredible right now
http://mysixcents.files.wordpress.co...in-obvious.jpg

"Liberal" tripe!

Conditions are far and away not the same. We didn't have General Field Marschall Commander-In-Chief Barack H.Obama running TWO useless wars back then, so the scenarios are in no way comparable.

Cash for (insert here). That's not a positive indicator. It's artificial growth.

If you look at the amount of cash that was thrown back into the economy and the amount of "positive" it did, then yes it didn't work. And artificial growth isn't a good sign for our economy. Who cares if the GDP grew if that growth comes from stimulus spending?

Wonderful, and I can find you more intelligent economists who call bullshit with actual facts and logic. There's no argument to be made for a "recovery".

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh
no offense but those are the same clowns that got us into this mess...

things will not get better dude, higher unemployment, higher taxes, higher oil prices, and higher dept for our kids. The only people who want to come to America now are poor immigrants from poor countries. The biggest problem in my opinion is we are so worried about helping other nations that we neglected our own. Nothing to do with repub or dems because both do whatever is best for their agenda at the time. Nobody really gives a fuck about you except your family.

The Bill is in the mail.
Wait till all the states rais unemployment taxes.
All the other taxes talked about being raised or put in place.
The programs that will be cut to reduce spending, but not the ones that need it.
Change is coming, I do not believe for the good.
Republicans only control one third of the equation. When the dems had all three, something big should of been done.
No side is going to do the RIGHT thing.
Yeah I have a bright outlook, HA

it's fucked and if you think this is some right left issue you are not helping because you are a moron.

not really an answer dude, more of a tautology.

"well, the economy will grow, so we will need more workers, so the workers will be employed by the new jobs need by the growing economy cuz the economy will grow. but it will take a while cuz the new jobs will have to be skilled jobs, so all the workers will need to be retrained IN ADDITION to the already existing training systems like college that already train new workers for the new jobs created by the growing economy which will grow."

you mention tech - what tech specifically? most tech is made outside the country now. maybe everybody become smartphone app creators?

if it's to be tech, since we are not allowed to be a managed economy like our competitors, what possible force could cause the corporations to hire american workers to produce the tech?

Please do.

The Warmonger, Barack H.Obama is sending valiant American warriors to fight, be wounded and in many cases die, FOR JUST FUCKING WHAT?

WHERE IT THE HOPE?

WHERE IS THE CHANGE?

WHERE IS THE HOPE FOR CHANGE?

It's Viet Nam all over again but TWICE OVER!:

He is trying to finish wars that conservatives started, but this isn't a liberal or conservative thing. The reality is that the rich find a way to survive and grow regardless of the economy or the tax rate. Obama passing a 3-4% tax increase on them is not going to kill them off.

gimmie a break obama isn't starting any new years he is dealing with the disaster handed to him.

people on the right who are suddenly anti-war because of obama are fucking stupid.

Horseshit!

Barack H.Obama has NO intention of "finishing" wars; only prolonging them! Soros told me so and you have just confirmed that Barack H.Obama is merely a contuation of previous administrations.

In this case you "finish" wars by ENDING THEM!

There is NOTHING in Iraq or AFghanistan worth ONE SINGLE AMERICAN LIFE!

BRING THE TROOPS HOME NOW!

you are right about the type of jobs, if you don't have a skill or a job in the public sector your fucked. I have friends who don't have any skills and when they go for a job for a warehouse position they are hundreds of applicants for like 5 positions.

I'm even thinking about working for state corrections, but when they told me I scored an 85 and in the writing part of the exam I scored 99% higher then all applicants...put up a red flag that I would be working with dummies.

Currently I have the same job for 20 years and my wife is an RN and adult is a fun side business. but our expenses are high so we need to figure out other incomes for the future.

More specific. . . We could create new technologies that could create clean renewable power. We could create tecnologies in computing, aviation, transportation you name it. It wasn't that long ago that we were the world's innovator in new technology. That is something we can work to regain.

Here is one problem we have. We bring in large amounts of engineers from other countries. India, for one, is not happy about this because in India if you have the grades you can go to college and learn to be an engineer for free and the government pays for it. US companies recruit from there en mass. India isn't too happy about picking up the bill to educate these people then have them move to the US to work. We can work to improve our engineering so we recruit our citizens for these jobs not people from other countries.

I don't have all the answers but this is something I know for sure. We aren't going to be growing manufacturing. We can't compete with workers who will do the exact same job for $1 a day that we pay workers $15 per hour for. So unless we pass some major protectionist laws those jobs will continue to be outsourced. That leaves us with developing new technologies as a way to rebuild our economy and work force.

Please do what? I just told you. You want me to expand? Or do you want economists? Peter Schiff and Ron Paul, two economists that make Keynesians look stupid on a daily basis.

People on the left who keep blaming Obama's troubles on Bush and the Republicans are fucking stupid.

you said : "Wonderful, and I can find you more intelligent economists who call bullshit with actual facts and logic. There's no argument to be made for a "recovery". "

I simply am saying please do show me these economists and their numbers. Don't just give me a name or an economic theory, back it up with some kind of numbers like you said you will.

yes, nextgen energy technology is one of the few things that could realistically expand and save the country. (It's actually quite hard to come up with many other specific areas of potential growth, unless you assume a collapse, and then there will be growth in farming and recycling and the like, but that would involve a massive reduction in wages.)

this almost guarantees that we won't try it, as a nation, lol.

one problem with what you are proposing is that there is very little in the way of forces that would keep any new technology we developed from being instantly sent by the multinationals to other countries. As you point out, they profit the most by making it there, why stay in the US.

so, ultimately you are proposing a further stratification into a caste society for this country, you are just hoping that the upper castes who still have decent jobs will include tech subcastes as well as the current managerial financial gubenatorial and high-end service subcastes we now have in the privilidged caste group.

now, it takes a long time for the former manufacturing castes to realize they have been cut out of the pie, but they will eventually as the economy transforms. dealing with their political anger and vulnerability is going to be a problem for some decades, until poverty quiets them down.

https://youtube.com/user/SchiffRe.../2/c_HQjDr72FU

https://youtube.com/user/SchiffRe.../1/kbXPu8RnsqQ
https://youtube.com/user/SchiffRe.../0/f18JIVk8hBw

Listen to all 3.

that's an example - pulled out of your circle of expertise, you signal the weakness of your overall model by retreating to adhominem.

if you don't have an answer to the rhetorical point that the wars were not started by the uncle tom, better to be silent or emphasize some other issue.

I said I would point it out, I have, my obligation is fulfilled.

I think you need to get off of your high horse and actually know what you're saying. I have a feeling you don't understand what an ad hominem is because I wasn't attacking the poster in any way. Furthermore, an ad hominem is present only when there is an argument by multiple parties. Again, re-think your stance and get off your high horse.

I'll use your logic just this time. If you don't have an answer to the rhetorical point that certain factions don't blame Obama but instead continue blaming the right, better to be silent or emphasize some other issue. Stop attempting to be a pseudointellectual.

schiff is a crank.

"a stopped clock is right twice a day."

Total crank. Who for the past 6-8 years has been predicting everything that has happened, who's miles and miles ahead of our FED chairman in the common sense department, etc... The guy's a genius.. So is Ron P.

Whats next? Keep blaming Bush. Keep blaming Republicans. Keep printing money. Keep exploring ways to raise taxes and fuck with health care.

Great description of the left.

And you are the opposite side of the same coin. A lunatic that plays like a broken record with the same old mindless partisan banter and rhetoric.

I would ask for proof of this stupidity but I sense you'll either ignore the question or continue going off on a tangent.:1orglaugh