Guilty or Not Guilty? (of manslaughter)
 

Your thoughts on this please

Here's a video of the incident



The current BBC headline

Ian Tomlinson death: PC Harwood cleared of killing
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18900484

"A police officer who hit Ian Tomlinson with a baton and pushed him to the ground at the G20 protests has been found not guilty of manslaughter.

PC Simon Harwood, 45, of south London, denied the manslaughter, in April 2009, of Mr Tomlinson, 47, on the grounds that he used reasonable force.

Mr Tomlinson, was pushed as he walked away from a police line in the City of London. He later collapsed and died."

Guilty...

Disgusting. Anyone else would be in jail. Police are somehow immune. Hopefully the family will be able to bring a wrongful death suit against the officer.




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Based on what little I've just seen....

A) I don't understand why the cop tackled him or pushed him like that. I understand their purpose there was to move the protesters, but this guy wasn't an active threat and was more of "just in the way". He should have been "gently pushed" by a group of officers, not harshly shoved and knocked down by one officer.

B) At the same time, it's pretty obvious that people were protesting and a group of police officers with intimidating guard dogs were approaching. How could he not make any serious attempt to get out of the way? If it was me, I would be moving out of the area - I don't make a habit of hanging out in-between police officers with guard dogs and protesters.

Unless they can prove that him hitting the ground at that moment caused his death, the police officer is innocent of manslaughter. People collapse and die all the time for "no reason"; A few months ago here in town a high school teen on a class trip stepped off the bus and dropped dead ten seconds later. They didn't charge the bus driver with manslaughter.

That's not say the police officer wasn't guilty of something for sure. I tend to side with the police most of the time, but in this case there was no warning and no reason for him to be tackled like that. Basically, this officer assaulted him for no valid reason.

A guy with a hoodie on tried to help him therefore the cops are innocent.

Thanks.

couple years ago around here the police broke into the wrong house well swat team on a drug raid shot a woman holding her baby and shot the baby killed the mother , he was found not guilty the whole town rioted.

When you see a police line, you get the fuck out the way. Some people like to take their chances. Here's the end result.

Not guilty...

I agree 100%

Cops Judge Cops

Also, when you see cops, take your hands out of your fucking pockets. Keeping your hands in your pockets to a cop is not a sign of subservience... more like a sign I have something I am going to kill you with something I have in my pocket.

This is a no brainer...

Sorry to say but just from that footage the guy was doing more than just walking home from work.

You can clearly see the cops walking up behind him with the dogs and moving him along. You can see the black dog is being held back from biting the guy but the guy makes NO effort to move his ass away as fast as he can. As well, Most likely they were giving verbal commands but with that insane amount of noise he could not hear them. Based on his movements he was hindering their progress. Its called passive resistance.

Should he have been shoved like that. NO HE SHOULD NOT.

Stupid cop move.

The dude was drunk aswell (yes at that time of the day). So the push probably looked worse than it was, and maybe wouldn't have knocked over someone else who was in a sober state...

To those of you who agree with the verdict, did you read the entire article ?

The police officer involved has prior problems with being violent.

Drunk or stoned still not a reason to excuse murder.

Drunk or stoned, you should get the fuck out the way of a police line!

All you pig lovers should really just shut the fuck up.

This was already deemed to be an "unlawful killing" and the pig responsible has a string of thuggery behind him going back over a decade. In 2001, to avoid disciplinary charges against him, he resigned from his police force (the Met (London) Police) and simply joined a different force nearby. A couple of years later he rejoined the Met Police, who ignored the fact he was a thug who had disciplinary charges just a few years earlier. He has already been outed as violent piece of shit in the British press, but his violent history was suppressed by the judge in this court case.

It's perfectly normal for the police in the UK to get away with murder, assault and other violence though. For example:

Three police officers were cleared of killing Robin Goodenough after he was stopped in 2003 in Oxford. Mr Goodenough, who was disqualified from driving, was punched in the face and left with a broken jaw. He swallowed so much blood that he could not breathe.

Five officers were charged with manslaughter after former paratrooper, Christopher Alder, died face down in police custody in 1998. A coroner recorded a verdict of unlawful killing. The 2002 trial was stopped when the judge ruled there was conflicting medical evidence.

Richard O'Brien died in 1994 after he was pinned to the ground by three officers and suffocated during an arrest for drunken disorder. An inquest jury found he had been "unlawfully killed". Three officers were put on trial for his manslaughter in 1999 but acquitted.

Joy Gardner died at her flat in north London in 1995 after police wound sticking tape round her head to stop her biting them as she resisted a deportation order. No verdict was reached at the inquest. Three officers were cleared of manslaughter.

"The police officer who was cleared on Thursday of killing Ian Tomlinson at the G20 protests has been repeatedly accused of using excessive force against members of the public, it can be reported following the end of his trial."

"Nearly 800 police officers facing misconduct allegations were allowed to resign or retire with clean records, a Mirror investigation has found.

All the officers were entitled to their full pension, even those later convicted of a criminal offence."

Still not an excuse for murder. Police must be held accountable to be effective in the eyes of the public.

He didn't pull a gun on him, he gave him a push. I've seen people push others out the way at shopping mall...

Lesson from the story is: Don't resist arrest by biting cops... :2 cents:

Still has to be held accountable. If you or I did that we would be up for a lengthy jail sentence. No matter if it were an accident or not everyday Joe shmo would end up in jail, then consider that an officer is a supposed professional and well there is no excuse

We all know that a policeman can't be guilty of a crime!

I have to agree, Looking at his pace.. it looked like he was impeding the line of officers that were approaching from the rear being passive aggressive. Besides, having your hands in your pockets around those officers is never a good idea.

I'm not saying what the cops did was right, but rather at the moment that it happened, Tomlinson made a series of bad choices that may, or may not have led to his death.

Oh and this happened the same year, within a few months I think, of the famous (and probably faked) video of the Iranian woman who was shot by persons unknown. Hillary Clinton had a lot to say about Iran's treatment of protesters at the time, but she was curiously silent about this example of Britain murdering an innocent bystander at a protest.

Looked more like he was drunk and stumbling home rather than *impeding* a police *line*.

There were what 10 police with one dog? Walking towards a group of protesters - this guy was by himself not even looking at the protesters.

The police got excited in their mob frenzy and attacked an innocent man ahh wait sorry I was just writing the headline as it would have been if it were 10 citizens walking along with a dog and pushed over a man who later died..........

That could easily explain his lack of care but at least in the US its no excuse when it comes to legal matters.

fuck the police! - Tom Morello