Taxing the Rich is the Answer...
 

It appears from a lot of the political discussions you see on GFY that you have a decent segment of the population who want to tax the rich at 50-90% (like the good ole days of the "New Deal") and then the others who think a flat tax is a solid long term solution.

At what point does raising tariffs, cutting defense, and the government hand outs factor in to the discussion?

:helpme

I dont understand why people would want to tax the rich, just look at what's going on in France. A lot of the rich guys are moving to other countries just because of the high tax. And why wouldn't they, I would do the same. They got so much money so moving shouldn't be a big problem for them.

defense can't really be cut that much except for the damn stealing and padding involved. handouts do need to be looked at carefully... one of my thoughts is that if the USA is going to 'police' civil wars etc... those fucking countries need to pay for that :2 cents:

and some point people that 'do not produce' need to realize that people that do 'produce' should be rewarded. as an example: a person nets $132K and pays $60K in taxes BUT had to work 90 hours a week to do that... is that reasonable?

yes there are' rich people' that fuck off most of the time HOWEVER ALL THE GUYS I KNOW THAT MAKE MONEY WORK LIKE FUCKING DOGS AND LONG HOURS... :2 cents:

200K for a bathroom in the white house would be a good cut to start with.

If the Rich are willing to pay a bit more then good for them and let them add in what they like.

But the waste is the biggest thing that needs to be looked at. Its amazing how much waste goes into each bill that gets passed.

Oh hell if you're saying someone is going to do defense cuts then taxing at fair levels doesn't even need to be discussed. Lets start with cutting the defense budget only by the amounts greater than they've requested. Once that's done we'll go from there.

Defense needs to be the first thing cut. Our military costs more than our GDP. Bring our boys(and girls) home and put them to work rebuilding our roads, bridges, electrical and water supply. When was the last time America was invaded? Foreign policy is no excuse to be the watchdog of the world.

You have to be more specific about the bathroom. Thousands of people work in the White House, so this bathroom could be huge.

We have waste all around. The amount of waste we have must be staggering. Look at that one agency - What was it, the GSA, throwing a convention in Vegas? I remember early one during the election Congress was flying out to Hawaii for meetings on healthcare... And what's up with Welfare? That's a short term thing, not a way to raise generations of families...

As liberal minded as I have been lately -- I still think the best way to get out of the hole is to make government more efficient and less wasteful. We could definitely stop rich people from paying less taxes by way of loopholes and other tricks, but I don't think they should be punished for being rich. Why take more money from the top earners if the government is going to waste it anyway?

taxes have been going down for years

the only thing that has really been cut so far has been 'government hand outs'..

just make sure the middle class has more to spend, that will drive the economy

It was built for 1 man under Bush. Not sure who it was. Secretary of something. It had a Nice sub zero fridge/freezer in it just in case the fucker got thirsty while shitting.

Was in the news not long ago.

I'm taxed at 50% up here in Canada, that's just income tax... I'm thinking about earning less money this year, I'm tired of paying for welfare mothers to stay how and have babies. We also pay for the health care of half of India. Socialized Health care is a joke! They take 50% of my money for it, or I could get good health care in the US for $500 bucks a month.

i could not have said that any better. agree all 3 points.
that being said i think the ones making over 400K should not get a tax break.
and close some of the loopholes in the tax code.

That's the debate..your idea of what's fair and my idea of what's fair is vastly different.

The defense budget is a place to start. The real problem is entitlements.

You can't discriminate on the basis of skin color or gender, but wealth, well, that's another story - you are rich, so you should pay more. Of course, you might have gotten rich by working your ass off 16 hours a day for the past 30 years, by taking a loan against your house, and by risking your whole family's future, but we don't care....

Maybe you were being sarcastic, but if not you are way off.

US GDP: $15.09 Trillion

US militray expenditure: $711.0 Billion (4.7% of GDP)

I don't understand it either. What France should do is bring back guillotine executions like the good old days. Set up a guillotine right in front of the Arc de Triomphe, and when a rich Frenchman announces that he wants to renounce his citizenship, you drag him out there and chop his frog eating French fucking head off, chop his cock off, shove it in the mouth of his severed head, and give all his money away to the homeless... and you let the bums piss and shit all over his dead, headless corpse. And rape his asshole with stale baguettes if they want. Kill two birds with one stone: you don't have to worry about collecting taxes from 'em, and you don't have to worry about 'em leaving the country. And you broadcast it live on TV, too.

very true, but I don't think that they "don't care", they just don't understand, they think that successful people got lucky, that they somehow won the lottery of life, they don't realize that 9 out of 10 times successful people achieved success through hard work, sacrifice, risk, etc...

Taxes don't go to anywhere but to pay off the interest owed to the Federal Reserve. Taxing ANYONE more won't "solve" anything.

get better tax advice if you are paying 50%...corporate tax rate is like 26% which is much lower than the US..

I'm not certain I believe that story.

My brother (a Republican, mind you) has been working on a project in the White House and the one thing he cannot believe is how run down the building actually is.

Hell, in the private residence there are bathrooms going back to the 50's and 60's.

William H. Taft got his fat ass stuck in a White House bathtub; they had to grease him up with lard to pop him out.

the root cause of the issue is that government is for sale to the highest bidders. Tax policy, & also spending policy, is made on the basis of helping out special interests.

Obviously the wealthiest people & corporations benefit the most from this situation. Hence you have lower taxes on capital gains as compared to work, tax loopholes to avoid estate taxes, all kinds of corporate welfares like farm subsidies, needless defense spending, deals to prevent medicare from using its market power to negotiate lower prices from big pharma.

The Fed is perpetuating this crap by keeping interests rates super low so that the government can add trillions to the national debt at zero interest rates.

nothing will change until politicians are forced by a recession to make choices to benefit the people instead of special interests. That moment is years into the future, when national debt interests begins crowding out the cost of boomers hitting the roles.

:2 cents:

how about a: manually operated hand held impact generator? something like $650 apiece to the military

I can't believe France actually taxes the rich at 90% but then government officials are exempt of course

Actually in a flat tax system THEY WOULD PAY MORE. Paying 15% of a million dollars ($150,000.00) is a whole lot more dollars than paying 15% on $40,000.00 annual ($6000.00). The rich are already "paying more" based on that alone.

So what you really mean is, they should pay more than their "fair share" because they're successful?

He should have been in there prior to Truman. It's well documented how poor condition the White House has been over the years, and the attempts to try and fix it up or modernize it over time.

:Oh crap

No, it's not. Entitlements are a symptom, not the problem. The real problem is we have more people willing and able to work than we need to get work done - and they are competing with a combination of mechanized / foreign labor that costs less than any living wage would cost in most of the United States. When you do not have enough quality jobs to support the entire population, cutting the standard of living of the workforce *used to* be the answer. When those cuts are only leading toward a period of less labor required they become a false solution.

You could cut wages, cut entitlements, not supply any kind of health care etc... and the result would still be less workers needed in the future than are needed now. At no point will a worker be cheaper or better than a robot for any form of mundane physical work. At no point will a worker be cheaper or better than a computer for any kind of methodological planning and execution. The only 'jobs' left will be the ones that go to people who are creative enough to design or develop new businesses and products. The so called 'job creators' will be creating jobs for themselves, some bots and a tiny skeleton force of human workers on a global scale.

We have only three possible solutions available:

1 - Cull the population severely. Pandemic plague, war of attrition, massive starvation or something of that sort on a global scale. However, most people would vote to have their own taxes raised instead of erecting death camps to incinerate the poor.

2 - Create new labor intensive tasks that can only be performed by humans. However, that's very unlikely and as the pace of technology always accelerates upon itself even if we did create some new need for human labor we would also quickly find a way to automate it.

3 - Learn to deal with the fact that as many as half the people living on our planet are going to get a 'free ride' on the backs of the half that are able to produce. Their quality of life doesn't need to be anywhere close to what producers enjoy in terms of luxuries, but providing basic necessities and a life above the level of abject poverty is going to be the easiest, cheapest and best solution unless people want to start implementing solution #1 above on a massive scale.

We can produce much more than we need. The notion that everyone has to contribute their maximum output to avoid shortages is simply mistaken. Paying someone to stay home and actually raise their kids, or limiting who can have kids and supplying people with basic distractions from their sorrows for free while producers enjoy luxuries on an unprecedented scale is where we are headed. :2 cents:

Population control is at the heart of this problem. Open up a history book, and look at the world's history up until roughly 1890-1900's and the insane spike in population coupled with people living longer. You will see that is when most of the 'world's problems' of today had began. Population, food shortage, jobs, handouts, etc., etc..

With the dawn of the industrial revolution (i.e. less manual labor needed) and petroleum, you have an enormous spike in population that continues for some 120+ years now, and the rape of the planet began. At the rate the population is growing, they say in another 50 years that the western world will have to start eating bugs as there is not going to be enough land left to support the cattle and the traditional diet of today.

Only 1% of the entire planet's water is "fresh water", and you have large areas of the planet losing their traditional water sources. The next world war is going to be over food and water. Not just energy.

:2 cents:

Overpopulation is a myth. You can take every person on Earth and give them 1/3 acre of land and it would cover an area about the size of Australia.

The industrial revolution is bupkis compared to what is going on now with genetics, the internet, quantum computing and innovations on the visible horizon. Technology accelerates itself. The Stone Age to the Iron Age was nearly 2,000 years apart in human history. We make jumps from Industrialization to the Digital Age in hundreds of years and from Digital to Genome in decades. The pace of acceleration is staggering and it is only getting faster.

The idea that we need everyone working to make things is ridiculous. We need the best of us working and the rest of us to quietly stay out of the way, placated by a very easy subsistence and plenty of distractions.

Good point! I'll take my 1/3 of an acre on the north shore of Long Island. You can have a third of an acre in the rocky cliffs of Afghanistan or the irradiated area around Chernobyl. Not all 1/3 acres are the same :winkwink:

you handle money :) you have to get the spending under control first :2 cents: without a budget you stick to your lost :2 cents:

With a livable wage or means of income, water, and food? Great!!! Problem solved by YOU! Now go run for Congress.

:thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup

Oh I see.

So where does 12clicks sign up to sit on his ass at a beach somewhere while you slave away and support him?

:thumbsup

Sitting at the beach for free is very easy to do. We have public parks and public beaches for exactly that reason. Getting *basic* public housing, nutritious food, preventative healthcare, security and distractions is also already possible. We provide food, housing, healthcare, security and some distractions for more than 6 million Americans right now.... every single one of them are in prison. That's 760 out of every 100,000 citizens in our country. What if we provided slightly better conditions for people who don't commit crimes instead? It doesn't cost a whole lot to put people in a safe, clean apartment building with a nutritious food pantry and an NFL game on television. In fact it would cost a tremendous amount LESS than it costs to put those same people in prison.

We are too caught up in who earned their keep, and should instead be trying to maximize efficiency as we provide basic subsistence living for all citizens regardless of their contributions to society (as long as they aren't causing problems for others). Being poor doesn't need to be punitive anymore, and being wealthy wouldn't be hampered nearly as much by the poor if society took a paternal view of people who are less fortunate and made caring for them cheaper rather harsher.

Get government and big business out of the food industry and the food problem would be solved easily. Instead you have new constitutions being written like the one in Iraq requiring monsanto gmo seeds only by law. The gestapo kicking in the doors of organic farmers here in the US and many other horror stories. Quit using corn for fuels. Release the MANY patents hidden away by large corporations for free energy. Quit filling our water supplies with waste. All easily solvable problems without government and their special interest backers.

Do you want to direct for me? :1orglaugh I will allow you to do it in english !!! :1orglaugh

That is some serious imagination you have there. I laughed so hard that my false teeth feel out.

I was going with the first choice on your list. A good start would be the democrats :winkwink:

The biggest logistical problem with #1 is the 2nd Amendment (one of the reasons I favor it). It's hard to round up the poor and incinerate them when most of them have a shotgun in their closet. That, and for many of us a moral problem exists as well.

Also as a side note, You would want to start with people in the Tea Party, not the Democrats. Per Capita the Tea Party backers bleed 'the system' much more than any group of Democrats. So when you turn your factory into a makeshift death camp... be sure to launch your campaign with a Kid Rock concert to lure in the proper target audience on an economic basis. :winkwink:

a one world commune is the only answer to the future's problems. the elite are resource hogs sucking up clean water, land and energy. we need to do away with them for the greater good of the collective whole. everyone has a job to do and everyone benefits equally as all these jobs fit into one giant puzzle that is human life on planet earth. chasing paper and foolish material possessions is just a distraction to keep you busy while your resources are raped and your body destroyed with toxic over-processed foods. get off the hamster wheel, rise up and lets all take what is rightfully everyone's.

I agree :thumbsup

Saddam had the solution.. without any scorched earth stuff going on.

Seriously, in theory your position about over population has merit. At the rate the population is growing in time I can see Player Piano occuring,assuming nothing changes.

But after so many years of traveling, I have been to lot of places where technology is generations away from having any impact.There are so many regions where entire countries still live in huts.

It's probable that population controls could easily reverse the trend in North America and Europe like it has in Japan.

About That Overpopulation Problem

"Research suggests we may actually face a declining world population in the coming years."

Good article, thanks for posting it.

The War of 1812

Our defense budget needs to be cut to the bone.

It was only during the bullshit "Cold War" that we had defense spending so high in peace time.

Absolutely no reason to spend this much money on a military. We don't even use it for "defense" anyway. We use it to bully and invade other countries.

Fortunately I don't live in those countries. I'd like them to have basic subsistence level necessities as well, and if they did they would be far less likely to start wars and pursue military strength. Former Secretary of State George Shultz was fond of saying 'fat people don't fight' and he was right about that. Keeping the less fortunate clothed and fed placates them, and placating peaceful people is much cheaper than dealing with violent ones. That goes for people in our own country, and any other people we deal with internationally.

It is easy to forget that 1 million people armed only with sticks and rocks can cause an obscene amount of damage and destruction. Living in an age where almost any asshat can make an IED or anyone with basic education can create their own DIY drone - the costs of fomenting rebellion are simply too high to toy with when we can so inexpensively give everyone shoes, an apartment, the NFL on television and a lifetime supply of MRE. :2 cents: