Most Americans Will Now Retire Poorer Than Their Parents
 

"Trickle down" worked great...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/busine...y.html?hpid=z1

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/wp-cont.../stt070821.gif

More weekend idiocy from surfers

Eat me. Why did you view the post? Take your bitching elsewhere. :moon

Welcome to the world today and the recession. I don't see things getting any better for our children.

I wish I could emphatically disagree. But I can't. So much is wrong right now. BUT, the world is changing in many positive ways as well as negative. Never give up! :thumbsup

Oh.. you mean the same dipshits that bought homes, property, cars and all sorts of other shit they couldn't afford until they completely crashed the economy with their idiotic spending/borrowing?

Boo fucking hoo

I bet you believe that when a woman gets raped it's her fault too.


:321GFY

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I believe you couldn't make sense on your best day.

Of course it's the republicans fault. Get a new mantra this one is way old.

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There's a first time for everything.

And you are allowed to believe whatever you like, no matter how ridiculous. :thumbsup

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GrantMercury...how can that be? Pres. Obama is changing all that right? His policies stopped us from falling into a great depression and judging from the way he feels from the State Of The Union Address...everything is gonna kick ass.

Back when "trickle down" economics was the rage (Reagan years for instance), everybody was retiring richer than their parents did.

Other than the housing market crashing in 2008...which in turn crashed the banks and brought down the economy...everything was still kicking ass. (and that was all caused by CONGRESS deregulations starting in the Clinton years)

I STILL plan on having way more money than my parents did. Hell, I already do.

Are you saying that kids TODAY in 2013 are going to be poorer when they retire? Well of course they will! The govt. is going to tax the hell out anybody who becomes successful. That's what the President pretty plainly has said and won an election running on.

So just by the fact that it's going to be harder and harder to accumulate wealth...and IF you do the govt. is going to tax it hard and stop you from building it up...well, how COULD the next generation ever reach the heights of the current one?

Makes perfect sense to me, and has nothing to do with trickle down economics.

Now you're not only blaming 5 years of Obama all on Bush...but you want to go back 30 years and blame Obama's failure on Reagan too. lol

There isn't much money in ranting about the "inqualities" of life…

Oh yeah banks had nothing to do with anything. Banks didn't do anything wrong. It was all the dipshits who bought houses they couldn't afford. That makes a lot of sense.

:321GFY

A highway doesn't cause car accidents. Neither does the car manufacturer. Making a Ferrari available to more car buyers doesn't mean the driver isn't responsible for losing control and driving into oncoming traffic.

No one forced anyone to buy a house. Loans were simply made easier to get. End of story.

And by the way, the whole "its not my fault, its the big evil company" thing directly correlates to ones success in business or anything else that's competitive. Successful, intelligent people do not blame "things". They blame themselves, course correct, learn the lessons and move on.

Obviously poor people, irresponsible people and the generally retarded are going to blame banks and other "things". That's what losers do. They externalize everything and search for blame so they can get through another day of being a loser without being overwhelmed by the desire to put a gun in their mouth. Even worse, that's now the world we are creating now... a world full of underachieving narcissistic twats who feel nothing is their fault. We grade on the curve. Everyone gets a trophy just for showing up. Then when someone mentions personal accountability, everyone looks at you like you just drop kicked a baby across the room.

Home loans were made easier because people can't afford them. This is what happens when you have 5 flip this house shows on cable tv and everyone wants to own a home and rent it out for profit. A house note that is $800 dollars just turned into $1000+ for a renter. People can't afford to rent or buy.

How did Mercury possibly connect Reagan to that article?

It clearly says..the great depression and weak recovery.. 2008-2013
Blame goes where it belongs.

So are you trying to say that it was the wannabe entrepreneurs with zero real estate/business experience who thought they could make easy $$ by flipping/renting houses that caused the mess? That's what it sounds like, exactly proving TheSquealer's point...

So what, most young here won't even have pension and who knows how will end up in retirement. My brother started working since he was 16 and now he is 31 and have only 3 years paid in pension fond. People work on illegal in many of big companies and work just for survival. Can you imagine to live with 200 euro monthly? Many people live in houses which our grandads built and drive cars approximately 15 years old.

I had access to outrageous loans on outrageous houses that I couldn't afford, just like everyone else. I didn't take one. I'm okay.

What happened there? Was I… *gasp*... responsible?

I understand as I get older why my grandparents hated kids. It's got to be bewildering to grow up in a time when everyone was about honor, good deeds, doing the right thing, being polite, being courteous, being responsible, keeping your word and being a good citizen and end up in a place where 1/2 retarded, narcissistic, illiterate, saggy pants wearing buffoons show up to the game when its half over, don't play in it.. but demand a trophy and tell everyone how they're a super star because they've got the awards to prove it... then can't understand why the world isn't treating them accordingly. Must be the banks fault. Must be Republicans. Must be Bush. I mean, what else can it be? It must be something that someone or something is doing to them. How else can they explain their failures?

Obviously you work for a bank. How else could one explain their inability to snatch you out of your house, drag you to their office, qualify you for a loan and then force you to accept the loan and lend you the money?

Scumbag. Probably have a shrine to Bush, Fox News and Rush Limbaugh above your bed.

:2 cents::2 cents:

Good analogy.:eyecrazy

People who buy house = good faith (the supposed dream)
People who sell loans = bad faith ($$$$$ aka greed)

Don't really know what else to say other than read "Third World America" by Arianna Huffington or watch the HBO documentary "Too Big To Fail". That would also require an open mind.

Poster on my wall...

http://media.salon.com/2004/05/busti...rs-293x307.jpg

I don't need an open mind to understand that people need to accept responsibility for their actions. I fully understand how far out of control lenders got.

Why is it that the liberal mind always puts people as being hapless buffoons, incapable of thinking for or helping themselves or being responsible for their own behavior, decisions and life choices?

which category do the wannabe real estate "investors" belong in? "dream", "greed" or both?

so back to his analogy, if a person buys a ferrari [in "good faith" to have some fun] and loses control and kills some people, it becomes manufacturer's fault because they sold the car in "bad faith", right?

What an idiotic thing to say. Banks did not force loans upon buyers.

Just because a bank approved you for an $X loan doesn't mean you had to take the full amount. It's on YOU to figure out how much you can really afford.

To borrow your analogy, it's like a woman having sex with a guy and regretting it the next day so she cries rape. That's what borrowers are doing.

Should have worked harder

and that terrible jazz music is going to make the kids rot in hell, blah blah. why did your grandparents grandparents hate kids? because you can get all the way back to the cave it was like this. one generation not understanding the next. not only that but people got away with so much more horrible shit back in the day because, well there were no cameras, new real news, and the word of a child meant shit all.

the idea that everyone was upstanding great citizens who all helped each other out is 50 years ago is just pure bullshit. everyone looks back as the past as being some great time for some reason because thats what they want to think.

regardless fact is the baby boomer generation sold out the next generation. you can't really blame all of them as most were just pawns in the game but there are a handful of key players who ensured they got theirs before the pyramid began to crumble. my parents got to raise a family in a time of prosperity. i get to raise a family in uncertain times where we are constantly told its going to get worse.

yeah but unfortunately everyone ends up paying when irresponsible people take these loans that never should of qualified for. its so different here in canada, banks won't give you a loan unless your income meets certain metrics. i don't see why that would be viewed as a bad thing.

Two of the best observations I've seen in awhile. :thumbsup:thumbsup

Hey, if you are an investor just say so, don't make analogies that can be twisted this way or that.

As an investor of course you want to make money. Then blaming the home buyer for failure how is that any different than the home buyer blaming the investor?

I was referring to comments by BigChad earlier: "This is what happens when you have 5 flip this house shows on cable tv and everyone wants to own a home and rent it out for profit."

I was referring to that type of "investor"... what role do you think house flippers like that had in the whole mess? Didn't they have a significant role in causing the real estate bubble and were driven by greed just as much as the bankers??

I think this article misses a few things. Most people near retirement age just lost everything, and will in fact retire poorer than their parents. Those of us in our thirties and forties will be fine.

One friend of mine - my friend's mother really - retired just before the recession hit. She was a widow, invested carefully, retired.... Ended up loosing everything. Very sad.

Yeah, I kind of agree.

I've often mentioned my friends here - they bought a house they couldn't really afford, and then when prices of houses shot up they took money out and bought all kinds of toys. I mean, between the two of them they barely cleared $100k (she was a cashier at a big box store), yet they had a boat, a jeep, jet skis, ATVs, a HUGE expensive pick up truck, and always had the most recent iPhones.

When the recession hit he lost his job, more than half of their income, and they lost their house and everything else. They ended up renting a house, he got job again, and they started spending again. A new motorcycle, new Corvette (used really) new ATVs.... Really?

Guess what. Seems they can no longer afford their lifestyle. They are selling everything again, and this time most of their furniture including their huge pool table.

Whatever.

The banks didn't rip off the homeowner. They ripped off the investor. Rewatch "too big to fail". Then Bush/Obama turned it back on the American people.

At what point does some level of personal responsibility kick in exactly?

Buy a house with zero down and no docs on a 5 year ARM, or interest only loan, and think it's going to be alright. Never put any money away for a rainy day, or invest for the future. Assume you will never be downsized or lose your job. Max out all of your credit cards and bury yourself in debt so you can take the family on a Disney vacation.

When is enough going to be enough.......? Sure, bad shit happened. But that does not negate all of the poor financial choices.

:disgust

Did I say it's was the Republican's fault?

I didn't blame Regan specifically.

The point is, if you HAD taken one of those loans and then didn't pay it back, the bank wouldn't give a fuck. Does that sound right to you?

Yeah, that was my feeling too. I don't really know what citizens were like 50 years ago, other than the fact that bigotry was commonplace.

I don't think anyone is arguing that.

Anyone who believes this was the cause of the crisis only knows about 10% of the story.

Also wanted to say there are many bankers, investors, flippers, builders who are good legit business people. Not talking about you!

Of course, only deluded lunatics know 100% of any major event.

That obvious and unchanging truth has been repeatedly established in practically every discussion on this forum since 9/11.

I had an aunt and uncle who did much the same. In the late 70s they were on the ground floor of the ceramic hobby fad - they started a small business from their rural home that quickly swelled into one of the largest ceramic dealerships in Canada. Along with it, they began their spending spree - they bought a yacht, a posh luxury condo in Toronto, luxury car...exotic vacations, all the toys. They lived high-on-the-hog - never realizing the ceramic hobby craze was just a fad that died out after a decade or so.

And then the creditors came knockin'.

Meanwhile, they were stuck with payments on things they could no longer afford - and had to liquidate at fire sale prices. They stiffed a few suppliers and eventually disappeared out of the country for a while - meanwhile court bailiffs were serving papers on their remaining holdings and trying to track them down.

They never thought to set aside a nest egg - but just rode the wave crest until it was too late.

We have 32 years of data on 'Trickle Down' now, and there have been a number of studies that show it simply doesn't work. Good luck finding one that proves it does. Trickle down doesn't lead to greater employment, higher GDP, nothing.


Personally, I think it was a hustle from the get go...

People who buy houses/things they can't afford = people who follow their dreams.
If you can't afford living your dream then reality will catch up sooner or later.
People who lost everything blame people who have what they want

I have great news for you. NO ONE is ever going to corner you in a dark alley, tackle you and throw you to the ground and stomp you to death for being a genius.

Should have quoted so no confusion