Rebels seize ground as West claims Russia army is in Ukraine
 

where's deeter??

Starobesheve (Ukraine) (AFP) - Rebels in east Ukraine on Wednesday appeared to have seized swathes of territory from retreating government forces, while Western intelligence said Russian army units were operating inside the country.

After weeks of government offensives that have seen troops push deep into the last rebel bastions, the tide appears to be turning once again in the four-month conflict, prompting a nervous government in Kiev to call on NATO for help.

AFP journalists saw no signs of government troops south of the rebel-held city of Donetsk, with road blocks on the entire 100-kilometre (60-mile) stretch to the Azov Sea manned by pro-Russian rebels.

A volunteer commander posted on Facebook that government forces were surrounded in the key transport hub of Ilovaysk and reinforcements were desperately needed.

Evidence of the deteriorating situation emerged just hours after the first meeting in three months between Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko and his Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin, which failed to achieve any concrete breakthrough.

There is increasing concern in Kiev and the West that Russia is intervening directly in the conflict -- a charge that Moscow has repeatedly denied.

The Ukraine government claimed on Wednesday that a battalion of Russian soldiers had set up a military headquarters near the village of Pobeda, around 50 kilometres southeast of Donetsk.

full article...

Why is there "increasing concern" about Russia's involvement. We've seen convoys of tanks, and they just caught ten Russian soldiers a few days ago.

He's gone to war

more like running all that shit he said :Oh crap putin wants a personal sit down :helpme:helpme

guess this explains NATOs 'quick response forces'.. here we go

I don't think that NATO will deal with this. At least directly, but Ukraine may get some supply. Proxy war for NATO, but not so proxy for Ukraine.

Ukraine can deal with forces like those with good cooperation with ground troops and indirect fire. As the rebels doesn't have airforce, etc. and Russia has not yet entered for open warfare. Also I don't think that rebels have that good counter battery capabilities.

hmm i guess that these trucks were a diversion.

look at the cheese on my finger

http://telstarlogistics.typepad.com/.../man_mouse.gif

Maybe, but Ukraine says that Russians loaded weapon parts in Ukraine and shipped those to Russia. As Russia is somewhat dependant about weapon parts manufactured in Ukraine. So, now that they have the parts, maybe they send those back (no, I don't mean with trucks)?

This would a way to influence Russia, so i doubt that the truth...

There is no doubt about that. Russia tries to get rid of the dependancy, but so far it needs Ukraine made parts for it's weapon systems. I don't remember exactly to what all systems, but if I remember correctly, the list includes airplanes, missiles, etc.

If you mean influencing like with the sanctions, I would point out that Russia is already on the verge of taking Eastern-Ukraine (or trying to take), where the weapon factories are anyways.

"Deep into a conflict that has sundered decades-old ties between Ukraine and Russia, Ukraine is still selling military gear over the border to its neighbor, Ukrainian defense industry officials say.

"Ukraine’s new leaders have vowed to stop the flow of these defense products, which include key parts for ship engines, advanced targeting technology for tanks and upkeep for Russia’s heaviest nuclear missiles. "

"But Kiev’s pleas for an end to trade ties have run into strong resistance from workers at companies like Motor Sich, here in Ukraine’s industrial heartland, where 27,000 employees build engines tailor-made for Russian military helicopters and planes. Most senior executives here grew up as part of the same Soviet military-industrial club as their Russian peers."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...f9d_story.html

Ukraine should start destroying the weapons factories. They have nothing to lose at this point. Destroy everything that would be valuable to Russia.

On the other hand, if it's the truth there is no need to wonder about russia's reaction...

motor sich is here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaporizhia

reference:
http://mediarnbo.org/wp-content/uplo.../21-08_eng.jpg

"they took our jobs" :winkwink:

Ukraine need weapons factories without them they are doomed. Of course they can get help from USA but its going to cost them big $$$ which they don't have at this point.

What does it matter if Russia is wherever?

The United States is actively working in about 8 different conflicts right now outside of the United States. Yet Russia can't be involved in a conflict on it's borders? I don't get it.

Pls enlighten me, have USA and EU "expressed their deep concern" yet? Or they are still "carefully study the situation"?

Yes, some pro-Russians have many times asked here that what would Russia want from Ukraine (besides the land, power, etc. normal stuff)? At least this is something that it surely would want: weapon factories to those it relies on.

Although, Ukraine wouldn't have even considered stopping selling the weapon parts to Russia without this Russia supported crisis. So, either Russia was ignorant, their plan went into shit, or the plan to take Eastern-Ukraine is still developing (as planned).

As i already wrote, you can't fuck Russia this time, they will take war, nato will do nothing here...

exactly:2 cents:

If you would live in a country and belong to the other side, whether the opponent is USA or Russia, maybe then you would get it.

Like if Russia would involve attacking in USA. You wouldn't get it even then? Russia and USA are even somewhat bordering countries (Alaska).

http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska#..._Alaska_NA.png

It doesn't matter, if they want to get involved they should get involved, declare war on Ukraine and get it over with... not use some weasel tactics like smuggling weapons at night and then next day at a news conference standing there with a straight face saying that they are not involved at all...

lol..........

I am glad that you weren't in charge during cold war. "If Russia wants to attack USA, it should attack USA, and same for USA". It would have been quite warm war.

Well, Osama did that. No weaseling, plain attack, he did what he wanted to do. I guess that applies to every jihadist, if they want to attack USA, they should attack USA. Just logical.. or something.

I don't mean that they "should" attack, obviously best to resolve issues through diplomacy...but if you are going to attack or help someone else attack, at least don't be a little weasel and pretend you are not involved at all...

You are like a small boy. Seriously get real, man. Do you remember Yugoslavia or Libya? Has NATO declared a war to Libyan people? Nope. It just pretended "securing" the airspace while bombing the regular army and supplying the Libyan radical Islamist rebels with weapon. At least Russian army has not yet started "securing" the Ukrainian sky. Personally I won't be surprised if it will happen however...

they didn't hide the fact, whole world knew what was going on... Russian representatives on the other hand to this day keeps saying "we are not involved" with a straight face...

Okay, but you wrote "should".

Same face the USA used while denying they were arming afghan terrorists against those same russians :2 cents:

Or the iran-contra affair , or .... and could go on ... these two super powers have been at hit for decennies .

Precisely, Russians are just doing the same. Again,they are late for decades.

So what? Both countries do what they do simple because they can. One decided to do the aggression with straight face, another one to hide it. Neither is better than another. War is dirty thing and it's not the case that 'what US do is teh great good and other countries should follow it's code of conduct'. Nobody gives a fuck. Both wars are/were undeclared, and in both cases direct declaration would make the weak side suffer much more.

Yes the whole world knew, but they did hide it. The war was not declared (in a way you suggested above).

But everybody knows that Russia is involved (not directly before the last time) but course it was. Don't you see that Putin is just mimics the NATO operations during the post-Cold War era? Abkhazia and South Ossetia for Kosovo, Ukraine for Libya (not on such a serious lever yet) etc. So, he is a real crazy mofo (no doubts), but the NATO countries are the last ones on this planet that can critique him for what he's doing. Hes level of aggression is 1000x times lower (once again: at least by now).

E-X-A-C-T-L-Y :2 cents:

Politics don't do that. They are like a poker players, but bids are much much higher.

we didn't hide the fact we had special forces on the ground giving out money to every mercenary organization we could get our hands on?

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-0...on-claims.html
shit just got real

On ‪#‎Ukraine‬ there was a translation error by the agency Reuters: According to the correction Poroshenko did not talk of an invasion.?

And then there?s the sensationalist New York Times piece today.
MoA: ?Notice that one author of the NYT piece above is Michael Gordon, who, together with Judith Miller, wrote sensational reports about proof of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. The current head of NATO who is promoting war against Russia, Fogh-of-war Rassmussen, said 11 years ago: "Iraq has WMDs. It is not something we think, it is something we know".

I can't afford poo :helpme

This is Russian invasion. What else do you want to know?

I liked that. Although I didn't get the message if there was one.

Well he posted:

i answered: "what time is love ?" (the title of the song)

This is just a hysterics of some old alcoholic who betrayed his motherland. Go to sleep already, loser.

Okay, if I got this right, the penetration is already happening. I don't know about the love, I guess it will be bastard anyways.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BwDh5TICcAAaIiz.jpg

Geography can be tough. Here?s a guide for Russian soldiers who keep getting lost & ?accidentally? entering Ukraine.

WE really need to shut the fuck up about Russia. Pot calling the kettle .. :disgust

NATO published satellite images about Russian troops in Ukraine. Go and see.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/c...round-ukraine/

http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/news_112103.htm