GoFuckYourself.com - Adult Webmaster Forum

GoFuckYourself.com - Adult Webmaster Forum (https://gfy.com/index.php)
-   Fucking Around & Business Discussion (https://gfy.com/forumdisplay.php?f=26)
-   -   Exposing my nuts and waiting for the stomp. (https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=1255405)

WolfDaddyStudios 04-01-2017 01:04 PM

Exposing my nuts and waiting for the stomp.
 
I know that there are many people here who have way more experience shooting content than I do. I only opened my studio a few months ago after a long slog trying to get my shit together and scrounging for the resources to give this a serious go.

I'm writing this because I'm somewhat of a Masochist and having followed this forum for awhile it's pretty clear that many of the people on GFY are not the types to blow smoke up someones ass, but tell it like it is. Whether people want to hear it or not. I respect that.

Having said that, I'm going to share a link to the first shoot produced by my studio. I'm not looking for sunshine and lollipops. I'm actually hoping for truthful, no holds barred, critique. I take what I do seriously, so hearing nothing but platitudes ain't going to help me to improve.

This is a google photo's link to a low rez watermarked version. Enjoy.

https://goo.gl/photos/Q8LUSHcbSKa6D4DXA

Grapesoda 04-01-2017 03:04 PM

don't see any issues with the content, if the niche is being filled, and the content sells... no issues

~Ray 04-01-2017 03:21 PM

Buy a domain and start building your brand.

Ray
Hardlinks.org
An affordable way to get links

WolfDaddyStudios 04-01-2017 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grapesoda (Post 21674332)
don't see any issues with the content, if the niche is being filled, and the content sells... no issues

Thank you for the feedback, it is very much appreciated.

Yesterday I had a conversation with a client whom is ordering custom content. I was told that I don't shoot the same way that most porn is. That it isn't common to use 3 cameras and do so much work in post production. She said that usually 2 cameras are more than enough and that she has even shot some single camera titles that she says sold very well.

I told her that I learned film making when I was studying broadcast journalism and that I cut videos the same way one would cut a television show.

This wasn't a disagreement, just a conversation.

Having seen my shooting style would you agree with her take? Is it more than what's needed for porn or does it add to it?

NatalieK 04-02-2017 06:58 AM

I thought it was a good fun watch, from a guys side, wankable, from a woman, kinky, yes, it worked.

Strange you bought a doctor vid up, only weeks ago I shot my first doctor role play vid, although mine was a gyno exam given to me at home after I called the doctor out for a head ache lol!

He used a speculum on me, spreading my uterus & both spitting & fingering inside the gadget whilst it was fully opened inside of me. Certainly bought me off :)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7jufJVXwAMv7PC.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CzgUkFcXcAAmuSb.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CzkPdBmWIAAtZ9S.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CzkPd_GXcAAWxm6.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Czo7C5DXAAAsAyu.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Czo7OTCXUAAEXB7.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cztno-cWEAAx9Gx.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CztnxMaWgAAYTQT.jpg

:thumbsup

NemesisEnforcer 04-02-2017 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WolfDaddyStudios (Post 21674254)
I know that there are many people here who have way more experience shooting content than I do. I only opened my studio a few months ago after a long slog trying to get my shit together and scrounging for the resources to give this a serious go.

I'm writing this because I'm somewhat of a Masochist and having followed this forum for awhile it's pretty clear that many of the people on GFY are not the types to blow smoke up someones ass, but tell it like it is. Whether people want to hear it or not. I respect that.

Having said that, I'm going to share a link to the first shoot produced by my studio. I'm not looking for sunshine and lollipops. I'm actually hoping for truthful, no holds barred, critique. I take what I do seriously, so hearing nothing but platitudes ain't going to help me to improve.

This is a google photo's link to a low rez watermarked version. Enjoy.

https://goo.gl/photos/Q8LUSHcbSKa6D4DXA

Personally, this isn't for me but from the comScore analytics, I can guess where it may fit.

NemesisEnforcer 04-02-2017 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WolfDaddyStudios (Post 21674365)
Having seen my shooting style would you agree with her take? Is it more than what's needed for porn or does it add to it?

For this scene, yes, I agree with her. For porn as whole, no. If the scene calls for 3 or 4 cameras, so be it. However, for this scene, why drive up your cost unnecessarily?

TheDynasty 04-02-2017 09:38 AM

thanks for showing us good luck

WolfDaddyStudios 04-03-2017 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GspotProductions (Post 21675271)
I thought it was a good fun watch, from a guys side, wankable, from a woman, kinky, yes, it worked.

Strange you bought a doctor vid up, only weeks ago I shot my first doctor role play vid, although mine was a gyno exam given to me at home after I called the doctor out for a head ache lol!

He used a speculum on me, spreading my uterus & both spitting & fingering inside the gadget whilst it was fully opened inside of me. Certainly bought me off :)


:thumbsup

I am so glad you enjoyed it. Your comments warmed my kinky little heart. Thank you.

That is a really strange coincidence, Medical theme is a fetish but I don't think it's one that's that common. I thought it was fun personally, I like shooting porn that has themes and acting.

How do you feel about Medical theme as a fetish? I have to admit that even though I enjoyed creating the content, it's not really one of my kinks. It's always beneficial to hear what different people think or feel about a fetish. When you were in roll, did it feel like every other shoot you've done or did it feel a little different somehow?

I might revisit this fetish in the future so the better I can understand it, the better the work will be.

CaptainHowdy 04-03-2017 06:47 AM

Looks like you're fit for marriage ...

Spunky 04-03-2017 06:48 AM

http://www.renegadetgp.com/neverpissoffwomen.jpg

WolfDaddyStudios 04-03-2017 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NemesisEnforcer (Post 21675556)
For this scene, yes, I agree with her. For porn as whole, no. If the scene calls for 3 or 4 cameras, so be it. However, for this scene, why drive up your cost unnecessarily?

I always find myself grappling with this. I'm kind of a one man show at the moment, I write the scene, I shoot, direct, and do all the post production work. It does take a lot longer in post production but at the same time, having 3 cameras also means that there is always usable footage to choose from. I'm always worried that the talent will position themselves in such a way that blocks the view. It's a stationary camera on tripod and I can't watch what it's capturing and still man the hand held. As a practical matter, having another angle and focal length shooting the action means that even if one became obstructed, than chances are the other would still be good.

When I studied film making one of the first things that were taught was that people have a very short attention span and will lose interest after 30 seconds. Next time your watching TV I bet you'll see them changing camera angles every 10 to 20 seconds.

I know porn is a very different ball of wax. Even someone with severe ADHD will still pay attention to what they're watching if it makes their dick hard or pussy wet. That said, just because it isn't essential doesn't necessarily mean it won't make it just a little better. Or at least that's how I see it now, but I readily admit that I'm still learning.

Do you mind if I ask what kind of scene would call for 3 or 4 cameras?

Grapesoda 04-03-2017 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WolfDaddyStudios (Post 21677263)
I always find myself grappling with this. I'm kind of a one man show at the moment, I write the scene, I shoot, direct, and do all the post production work. It does take a lot longer in post production but at the same time, having 3 cameras also means that there is always usable footage to choose from. I'm always worried that the talent will position themselves in such a way that blocks the view. It's a stationary camera on tripod and I can't watch what it's capturing and still man the hand held. As a practical matter, having another angle and focal length shooting the action means that even if one became obstructed, than chances are the other would still be good.

When I studied film making one of the first things that were taught was that people have a very short attention span and will lose interest after 30 seconds. Next time your watching TV I bet you'll see them changing camera angles every 10 to 20 seconds.

I know porn is a very different ball of wax. Even someone with severe ADHD will still pay attention to what they're watching if it makes their dick hard or pussy wet. That said, just because it isn't essential doesn't necessarily mean it won't make it just a little better. Or at least that's how I see it now, but I readily admit that I'm still learning.

Do you mind if I ask what kind of scene would call for 3 or 4 cameras?

a few things, 1 the camera lens angle if definitely 'amateur' so using 3 cameras is just fucking weird, and cropping of the top of the guys head? you would be better off to mount a camera up in the corner and run the gag like hidden camera. BTW members complain about edits, they want to see 'everything that happened' edits imply they missed something.

more camera angles are used when shooting hard core and soft core at the same time. and 1 camera long and one camera close then edited to tell the story.

WolfDaddyStudios 04-03-2017 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainHowdy (Post 21677167)
Looks like you're fit for marriage ...

:winkwink: Marriage is an institution and I am far too sane for an institution. lol.

WolfDaddyStudios 04-03-2017 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grapesoda (Post 21677299)
a few things, 1 the camera lens angle if definitely 'amateur' so using 3 cameras is just fucking weird, and cropping of the top of the guys head? you would be better off to mount a camera up in the corner and run the gag like hidden camera. BTW members complain about edits, they want to see 'everything that happened' edits imply they missed something.

more camera angles are used when shooting hard core and soft core at the same time. and 1 camera long and one camera close then edited to tell the story.

Thank you. I appreciate you taking the time to elaborate and offer critique. I completely agree about the camera angle being off and cropping his head looking amateur. I don't believe in making excuses, truth is I overlooked something critical and didn't catch it until post production. The camera's sticks got bumped just enough to fuck up the shot. It was my first porn shoot and truth be told I was nervous and a little overwhelmed. Lesson learned though.

Mounting the camera in a corner and up high is a great idea which solves the issue of camera obstruction. I've learned something and I'm very grateful for that.

Thank You so much.

WolfDaddyStudios 04-03-2017 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spunky (Post 21677173)

LOL. I just shot a femdom custom order that had ball busting CBT two days ago. If I knew how to insert an image with it having a url I would share. It's what inspired my title.

Bladewire 04-03-2017 04:35 PM

Nice video I like your style :thumbsup

Grapesoda 04-03-2017 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WolfDaddyStudios (Post 21677944)
Thank you. I appreciate you taking the time to elaborate and offer critique. I completely agree about the camera angle being off and cropping his head looking amateur. I don't believe in making excuses, truth is I overlooked something critical and didn't catch it until post production. The camera's sticks got bumped just enough to fuck up the shot. It was my first porn shoot and truth be told I was nervous and a little overwhelmed. Lesson learned though.

Mounting the camera in a corner and up high is a great idea which solves the issue of camera obstruction. I've learned something and I'm very grateful for that.

Thank You so much.

the other thing is the angle of the examine chair was off. that's is an entirely 'amateur' lens angle. pros tend to shoot eye level unless motivated by story concerns. amateurs tend to just stand there and shoot down, depending on their height. see pros tend do set their shots up for movement. I'll shoot this then I'll shoot this and edit the story along with the photography so there is a flow that flows character movements and story lines.

there is no real story or character development in porn. trying to create story with camera angles is a non starter. now were you to add 'tension' in the dialog before the sex stuff then you would need to work the lens to really turn up the tension....

example: my husband doesn't have sex with me anymore... 'the listener will pay attention' so you tease the 'admission with an insert close, up skirt shot with the guy in the back ground trying to see while he considers the ramifications of 'my husband doesn't have sex with me anymore' but it would even better to come up with tantalizing dialog that is a bit hostile and strange, to grab the interest of the listener.

my husband told me my pussy is ugly and he won't fuck me unless -----. then the dialog can really twist and story tell with the selected shots to push the agenda.. see?

otherwise just sick the camera up in the corner 'fly on the wall' style and let the viewers watch with out distracting camera work that adds nothing to the situation, other than close ups etc..

WolfDaddyStudios 04-03-2017 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bladewire (Post 21678898)
Nice video I like your style :thumbsup

Thank you my friend. I appreciate the encouragement. I'm glad you liked it.

EddyTheDog 04-03-2017 10:22 PM

I enjoyed that - Not my niche but very cool - I like a bit of comedy with my porn...

WolfDaddyStudios 04-04-2017 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grapesoda (Post 21679297)
the other thing is the angle of the examine chair was off. that's is an entirely 'amateur' lens angle. pros tend to shoot eye level unless motivated by story concerns. amateurs tend to just stand there and shoot down, depending on their height. see pros tend do set their shots up for movement. I'll shoot this then I'll shoot this and edit the story along with the photography so there is a flow that flows character movements and story lines.

there is no real story or character development in porn. trying to create story with camera angles is a non starter. now were you to add 'tension' in the dialog before the sex stuff then you would need to work the lens to really turn up the tension....

example: my husband doesn't have sex with me anymore... 'the listener will pay attention' so you tease the 'admission with an insert close, up skirt shot with the guy in the back ground trying to see while he considers the ramifications of 'my husband doesn't have sex with me anymore' but it would even better to come up with tantalizing dialog that is a bit hostile and strange, to grab the interest of the listener.

my husband told me my pussy is ugly and he won't fuck me unless -----. then the dialog can really twist and story tell with the selected shots to push the agenda.. see?

otherwise just sick the camera up in the corner 'fly on the wall' style and let the viewers watch with out distracting camera work that adds nothing to the situation, other than close ups etc..

I am humbled and grateful that you took the time to offer some very insightful critique. I very much appreciate it, thank you.

Now that it has been brought to my attention, I can see your point about the camera angle not being inline with eye level. You are also correct in your assessment that I just stood, pointed the camera and began shooting. I was concerned that if I stooped over to be in line with the models eyes that I wouldn't be able to hold the camera steady by the time the scene ended. I was worried that I would end up with too much shaky footage.

If the stabilization on your camera isn't very good, would using a single stick solve the problem do you think?

I really like the idea of using dialog that's tantalizing, strange and just a little hostile to rope the viewer in. Most fetish content does need the models to carry the scene through dialog and their acting performance.

When I wrote the script I was going for humor, I personally enjoy porn that has a little levity in it. My personal preference is for content that is either so intense that it's almost palpable, or that it's a little quirky and so unique that it makes one want to laugh.

That's kind of what I was going for with this one. I wanted it to be humorous yet still contain elements that cross over into the bdsm realm. Like a violet wand electro shock insertion scene and therapeutic nipple clamps.

WolfDaddyStudios 04-04-2017 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EddyTheDog (Post 21679561)
I enjoyed that - Not my niche but very cool - I like a bit of comedy with my porn...

I'm very happy you liked it. It's very fetish and far from mainstream. I chose to go with unique and entertaining partly because it fit my current budget. Shooting talented and kinky amateurs costs much less than shooting A list porn stars.

Kind of like the old saying goes. "When life gives you lemons, shoot a strange insertion video."

ianmoone332000 04-04-2017 08:22 AM

Least you have the balls to give it a proper try. Iv wanted to take the plunge and start shooting and learning for around 2 years now. Im in the UK and dont know where to start

Grapesoda 04-04-2017 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WolfDaddyStudios (Post 21679762)
I am humbled and grateful that you took the time to offer some very insightful critique.

Quote:


you knock that shit off please
I very much appreciate it, thank you.

Now that it has been brought to my attention, I can see your point about the camera angle not being inline with eye level. You are also correct in your assessment that I just stood, pointed the camera and began shooting. I was concerned that if I stooped over to be in line with the models eyes that I wouldn't be able to hold the camera steady by the time the scene ended. I was worried that I would end up with too much shaky footage.

If the stabilization on your camera isn't very good, would using a single stick solve the problem do you think?


Quote:


think carefully about your intended market and emulate or innovate camera technique as needed. camera should be transparent to your product unless cameras play a role in the 'story'. content will always be more important that 'capture'... think Blair Witch Project verses any big budget production with a similar audience niches. look at the stuff on clips for sale. really atrocious productions in many cases at the top stores.


I really like the idea of using dialog that's tantalizing, strange and just a little hostile to rope the viewer in. Most fetish content does need the models to carry the scene through dialog and their acting performance.

Quote:


more like no one will take the time to eavesdrop on a happy conversation. that's basic screen play writing 101. people enjoy the secrets of shame and infidelity and dishonesty.

When I wrote the script I was going for humor, I personally enjoy porn that has a little levity in it. My personal preference is for content that is either so intense that it's almost palpable, or that it's a little quirky and so unique that it makes one want to laugh.



That's kind of what I was going for with this one. I wanted it to be humorous yet still contain elements that cross over into the bdsm realm. Like a violet wand electro shock insertion scene and therapeutic nipple clamps.

a good actor will supply plenty of humor with a bit of encouragement. take some time a research your markets and shoot as simply as possible, making sure your production standards are flawless. for instance, if the audio is out a bit you might see a clip with bad audio, the audience will see a bad clip.

develop 'solid, clean production technique' to present a product that is transparent to the viewers, with no distractions from the 'story' to begin, then as your production technique improves, see where you can make simple lens adjustments etc. to clarity and bring the story into better focus, without your technique causing a distraction... the simpler the better.

BTW use solid camera mounts, tripods, wall mounts etc... in the old days, the 50's, some directors ran the story by the camera instead of the camera chasing the story. 40's and 50's film noir is great for studying production and camera shots because they had no money or time to shoot, and the dialog "you're no good and I'm no good, we deserve each other" wow!!

WolfDaddyStudios 04-04-2017 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ianmoone332000 (Post 21680380)
Least you have the balls to give it a proper try. Iv wanted to take the plunge and start shooting and learning for around 2 years now. Im in the UK and dont know where to start

My best advice is to simply start shooting. I very intentionally made the decision set up barriers. For example "I can't start shooting until I get "such and such" once I get that, then I'll start. If I did that, I know myself and I would then say...now I really need (whatever) then when I get that, I'll begin. Problem is that there will always be something new and you keep using it as an excuse not to start.

It doesn't matter if your first title sells. It's great if it does, if it doesn't than at least you will have learned something so that your next one will be that much better.

If you don't have a budget to hire actors, then shoot kinky friends who would so it for nothing more than being able to use the video for self promotion.

It's really hard to judge the quality of your work, people have a tendency to think everything they do is gold. I suggest you separate yourself from your work. When people critique your title they are not talking about you as a person.

Shoot it, drop it into a forum like this, and listen to the feedback you get. Personally I find more value when people take the time to tell me what I did wrong and offer advice on how to improve it.

dillfly2000 04-04-2017 05:17 PM

I'm interested, patiently waiting for the affiliate program.

WolfDaddyStudios 04-04-2017 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dillfly2000 (Post 21681829)
I'm interested, patiently waiting for the affiliate program.

I really wish I could tell you that my pay site is coming soon, but right now that's not the case. My background is in communications and film making. Web design and tech is not one of my strengths. I tried to give it a go with a CMS a few months ago but in the end all I really accomplished was wasting a lot of time and money. I never made a cent and it consumed so much of my time simply trying to learn how to do everything that I ended up not having time for anything else.

I've been discussing the possibility of teaming up with someone who has the skill set that I am sorely lacking in and so far I've met a few people that might fit the bill but as of today I can't say that there is anything solid.

WolfDaddyStudios 04-05-2017 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grapesoda (Post 21681616)
a good actor will supply plenty of humor with a bit of encouragement. take some time a research your markets and shoot as simply as possible, making sure your production standards are flawless. for instance, if the audio is out a bit you might see a clip with bad audio, the audience will see a bad clip.

develop 'solid, clean production technique' to present a product that is transparent to the viewers, with no distractions from the 'story' to begin, then as your production technique improves, see where you can make simple lens adjustments etc. to clarity and bring the story into better focus, without your technique causing a distraction... the simpler the better.

BTW use solid camera mounts, tripods, wall mounts etc... in the old days, the 50's, some directors ran the story by the camera instead of the camera chasing the story. 40's and 50's film noir is great for studying production and camera shots because they had no money or time to shoot, and the dialog "you're no good and I'm no good, we deserve each other" wow!!

Again, thank you very much. It is clear that you are a deep reservoir and have a wealth of knowledge. I've been paying very close attention to all the advice you have chosen to share with me because I know that if I follow your advice my work will greatly improve.

One of my biggest challenges at the moment is trying to produce professional quality content without having access to professional quality gear. When you discussed the advantages of having a wall mount and shooting from a "fly on the wall" perspective it became clear that a set up like that solve many issues I struggling with as well as improve the overall aesthetics of my production. I knew that I didn't have the funds to purchase one, so instead began digging through my garage looking for brackets, joints, pipes and anything else that I thought I could fabricate together so I could Jerry rig something that hopefully will function like a wall mount.

It is kind of a catch 22. I am keenly aware that I need to be able to produce content that is professional quality in order to earn adequate revenue. However as of yet I simply haven't made the kind of moneys needed to invest in kind of gear most studios see as essential.

Necessity has forced me to think outside of the box. But my ingenuity doesn't always result in a viable alternative. After exhausting every failed "work around", the only option remaining is for me to rewrite the scene so it compensates and makes my lack of equipment less apparent. Yes, it does compromise my work the result is a scene can never be as good as the one I had originally envisioned. However I'm simply not in the position to sacrifice the possible for the perfect.

JFK 04-05-2017 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spunky (Post 21677173)

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:thumbsup

WolfDaddyStudios 04-05-2017 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JFK (Post 21683578)
:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:thumbsup

How do you post images on here? Do you need to upload them to a site like imagur then post the url?

Grapesoda 04-05-2017 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WolfDaddyStudios (Post 21683209)
Again, thank you very much. It is clear that you are a deep reservoir and have a wealth of knowledge. I've been paying very close attention to all the advice you have chosen to share with me because I know that if I follow your advice my work will greatly improve.

One of my biggest challenges at the moment is trying to produce professional quality content without having access to professional quality gear. When you discussed the advantages of having a wall mount and shooting from a "fly on the wall" perspective it became clear that a set up like that solve many issues I struggling with as well as improve the overall aesthetics of my production. I knew that I didn't have the funds to purchase one, so instead began digging through my garage looking for brackets, joints, pipes and anything else that I thought I could fabricate together so I could Jerry rig something that hopefully will function like a wall mount.

It is kind of a catch 22. I am keenly aware that I need to be able to produce content that is professional quality in order to earn adequate revenue. However as of yet I simply haven't made the kind of moneys needed to invest in kind of gear most studios see as essential.

Necessity has forced me to think outside of the box. But my ingenuity doesn't always result in a viable alternative. After exhausting every failed "work around", the only option remaining is for me to rewrite the scene so it compensates and makes my lack of equipment less apparent. Yes, it does compromise my work the result is a scene can never be as good as the one I had originally envisioned. However I'm simply not in the position to sacrifice the possible for the perfect.

nothing is ever perfect but can be entirely serviceable ;) writing to your level of available technical application is fucking brilliant :) well done... that my friend is the action of a great producer.... think carefully before you spend money. the very best way to get production money is OPM (other peoples money) this is how 'movies' are made.

so generate ideas you can successfully create and consider the story advantages before you invest in any more gear. the stories you are dealing with now might be perfectly serviced with the way you choose to proceed using your current technical levels and skills sets.

shooting content is seldom interesting after a bit. mostly just hard work and polished skills. just because the content is not interesting to create, does not mean the content is boring to watch. use the feedback from your market to 'polish your act', i.e. work on the fantasy and story. a great story for a niche shot on a phone is better than a 200K production that misses the mark :winkwink:

as long as your process remains transparent to the content and anonymous to the viewers all is well. btw a go-pro will do the trick however the reason you see so much go-pro footage shot outside is because the go-pro is a light hog... unless they have changed dramatically in the last 2 years a go-pro can't see much inside. one more idea: put a ladder in the corner and strap the camera to the ladder with bungi cords... that's what a grip on a film crew would do if need be. nothing is off limits that is safe to the actors.

TheDynasty 04-05-2017 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WolfDaddyStudios (Post 21683710)
How do you post images on here? Do you need to upload them to a site like imagur then post the url?

upload image on postimage.org then click image button up above this box


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:01 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
©2000-, AI Media Network Inc123