Warning old NatNet customers who are now on TSS.
 

If you are an old NatNet customer who signed a contract with NatNet that specified you were on a one year or two year commitment TSS is going to lock you into that commitment. We literally missed our time to cancel said commitment by days. They are now telling us a contract my partner signed in 2006 is still in play and they will take us to debt collection if we don't honor it and stay for two more years of notoriously slow customer service.

Check your contracts and find out when they automatically renew or you will be screwed as well.

Would you mind sharing the entire agreement with me?

alex AT nalem DOT com

Depends on it being a contract or a subscription. Subscription can autorenew, contracts cant - it have to be renegotiated.

That sounds messed up - Depending on the amounts involved you need to get legal advise for sure...

Something I learned a few years ago - Here in NZ and in the UK if someone is threatening you with debtors court or similar it's best to get in first - I had a similar situation and it turns out you can take THEM to a small claims court and get them to sort it out even though the assholes are asking you for the money.....

If you can do the same in the US it's worth it - My lawyer told me that 8/10 times the assholes instantly drop the case and if they don't you have the upper hand in the small claims court - You gain a major advantage by getting in first...

As I said - Get some legal advice - Things like that piss me off so much.....

That sure is rotten . . .

Wow #wtf

Sounds like complete bullshit. Cancel it and tell them to fuck off and tell them you'll report them to the AG if they attempt any such bullshit.

True, no such thing can pass in EU, by law it had to be renewed manually. However, TSS and OP are US based.

Should be able to dispute that easily if it gets to that point.

I was in this situation. Being outside the US, and the initial Natnet contract being with a UK company that was wound up 6 or more years ago, I just walked away and moved to a better host.

That was over a year ago. Had some random emails from an guy named Omar, but didn't waste the time in reading them.

Good luck to anyone state-side.

Omar is our shakedown guy as well.

Contract says it auto renews for another two years. So, by the looks of it, we are screwed until 2022. But he says we are screwed until 2024 because he claims you owe two years after your cancellation which must be done within a certain period in 2022. Huh?

Bullshit! Omar, you are a real piece of work dude. Your company is a shitty company. I guess your company is so hard up for cash you have to resort to the dumb ass shit?

Going to the mainstream boards with this as well. Everybody needs to know your company and tactics are total horse shit!

So here are my 2 cents on this:

I had a small account at Naked Hosting which was NatNet and therefore also ended up at TTS

I had 2 issues since the take over which were not that life threatening (since i also don't have anything really important on that account) but which would have been completely avoidable with better planning and proactive communication.

But I cannot complain about the speed of service, the issues were resolved quickly (once I figured out what they were).

And I know Omar for at least 10+ years, worked with him, and only know him as nice and helpful. So personally I'd give him the benefit of doubt and hope he's only told to enforce company policy.

That being said: my main hosting I have at Techiemedia and Mojo Host - in the case of Techiemedia for 13 years now or so. Without any contract. Both hosts I could leave anytime if I wanted to - if they gave me a reason. But they don't.

And I do believe Tony had the same policy as long as he was still the owner of NatNet.

And Omar, when you read this: I strongly suggest rethinking the strategy of retaining customers.

Good service helps - locking people into contracts does not.

I know of a couple US based guys who called them on their bluff and left anyways. Nothing happened other than a few strongly worded e-mails.

Everyone should always be happy with their web hosting. Anyone stuck in an over-priced, auto-renewing contract with old equipment and sub-standard support should reach out to MojoHost and discover what their options are. Depending on time left in an auto-renewed contract, we are often just giving free hosting until it's exhausted.

I know we retain our clients with good value, service and the latest technology. We don't need contracts to keep clients here and invest in their business. Add me on Skype or email [email protected] for a fresh perspective. Best of luck -

Brad

:thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup

For any new server setup, I'd always just ask Brad

I don't think that's true in the US, I had that issue with a connectivity agreement back when we ran our own data enter. Not sure how that would work if you're based in the EU, and sign an agreement that's not legal where you live. :2 cents:

Brad / Mojo to the rescue! :thumbsup:thumbsup

I'm not under any contracts but was moved over from National Net, Tss has been same same for me no reason to move on.

Question? Did TSS make you sign this contract? Did I/we amend said contract? So because We didn't make you sign this contract, we didn't amend this contract, and you are fully aware of YOUR auto renew date...(which I have stated to ALL of NN customers over and over again) Your best course of action was to come to the boards "this isn't fair" when all we did was buy said contract?

I'm just trying to understand the situation... Again this isn't my company I work for this company and try to go above and beyond for every customer that comes to me with a legitimate complaint. My Skype can be found anywhere but just in case you don't have it omar.rodriguez75 which I would gladly go over your contact that you signed with another company that we bought.

Mind you being in this industry as long as I have, I understand the likes and wants of having no contracts, that's with anything in life, but let me also ask you. If you have a contracted service with let's say a telephone company i.e. Sprint (who was just bought out by Tmobile) does that mean you no longer have to pay your cell phone bill? Nope... Your still contracted... I get it, normally with new names come big headaches, but mostly every customer that I've approached and proceeded to help can tell you that not only do I go above and beyond I stay on top of it until either 1) it's complete or 2) it's above my head and my superiors have it (there I can't do anything about that)

Really? Did you read the clause where it says you have 30 days prior to your contract auto renewing to NOT let the contract auto renew? It's there and I'm sure I pointed it out to you..... and again we didn't make you sign this....

Again not my company and just doing my Job as would anyone that worked anywhere..
but that part makes to much sense to post....

Thank you MaDalton! I appreciate your kind words, and thank you for taking the time to bring some reasoning to the table. Yes I agree there are something's that could have been handled better, but I will say it again. I work for this company I don't own it. That being said I have to go by what my superiors want done....

As would anyone at any job...

I personally hate having these conversations as it's never a good one to have.... on top of that. It wasn't TSS that made these customers sign a NN contract. We bought it, so yes we have to enforce. Wouldn't anyone that bought anything? That being said. I rather have conversations of moving forward getting customers into brand new technology instead bare metal servers that old and antiquated. I rather be talking about our cloud our hybrid cloud and how we stack up against AWS pricing and give them a run for their money on it.... On EVERY quote, but you don't hear us pounding our chest to that.... Oh did I mention while being agnostic?

For anyone that has an serious issue with how contracts are handled by TSS, you can write the CEO directly: [email protected] :2 cents::2 cents:

The moment TSS purchased the contracts (legally binding or not), TSS was granted the opportunity to make positive changes so long as it clearly benefits the effected parties.

Absolutely nothing good ever comes out of being forced to maintain the business relationship.



'With age comes wisdom, but sometimes age comes alone.' - Oscar Wilde

Absolutely right! with in the time frame!

The problem here is with time left on the contract, smaller customers have wanted to change that, and as I've stated numerous time to numerous customers. Mark that date down on your Calendar. Make a reminder, because at that point I/we can do what ever we need to, but personally my hands are tied before then.

Amendments can be made to any agreement, at any time, so long as all parties to the contract accept those changes.

From the brief statements you have made here as a representative of TSS, the company appears to not be focused on client retention through loyalty and general satisfaction. That is unfortunate.

To the first part of your post.

Again 100% correct!! what about if solutions were given, to update machines and environments still holding the bought contracted price but one of the parties didn't agree? Then you have to enforce what you paid for no?

Which leads me to the second part of your post.

We all of us here at TSS (over 100 employees) go above an beyond to make sure that from a technical point. Standards are met and exceeded, if anyone has any issues with ANYTHING please my email and Skype is in my sig.

I will make sure it gets to the top of every departments 1st thing to do. To say that we don't care about client retention is just being uninformed. So it's easy to take certain things out of context and bend them to what you want to believe. I've always been of the mindset that if even 1$ in revenue is lost that's not a good day, but that 1$ has to make sense. To sit here and boast that contracts aren't needed or how you hold customers. REAL business is done via contracts. It's the only thing protecting both parties.

I have had servers at M3 for close to 20 years straight. Never had a formal contract.

I have billed my clients for the past 20 years, every month, with absolutely no formal contracts.

So to make the statement that the only REAL business being done is being done with contracts is bullshit, plain and simple.

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Never entered a contract that wasn't month to month when it comes to services in adult.

I have had hosting companies that have tried it, but it was always a deal breaker.

This. If you have to trap customers in with sneaky contracts you probably suck.

First off congrats on being in business 20 yrs. That speaks volumes with in itself! So kudos to you!

If you're happy where you're at. No one is telling you to leave them. But let's just play devils advocate here...

If said company tomorrow announced that they sold, What do you think that the acquiring company would do first? They would look at was the first document you signed with the company you mentioned above? Or any of the industry competitors that would be acquired in this space?

See here's the part that everyone is missing or is just choosing to forget. We asked a company how much? They replied, and we said how much of that is contracted revenue? at that moment. That's where the valuation of said contracts came into play.

Now if a representative when the sale was made said. "Look.... they are strong at enforcing the contracts and yours renews on this date, so mark it down make yourself a reminder, and hit me then. I can work with you then, but I can't do anything prior to that date except give you a new environment but the contract number can't be less" You as the customer have 2 options.

A) Make a reminder on your calendar to hit me up and redo everything to fit your needs.
B) Do nothing and get grumpy when YOU missed your date.

Any customers here in other competing companies. I'm sure your happy where you're at and has anyone from TSS approached you trying to "Steal you away" or have we talked bad about any competitors? Nope we don't do that. What we do though is help you where they can't, with a global foot print to satisfy any request, dam near anywhere.

You addressed a bunch of stuff there.

The only thing I made a comment on was your statement that the only REAL business that gets done is with contracts.

Of course, you addressed almost everything but that.

Your company chooses to use a contract model, that what you do, no problem, that is your model.

But your statement regarding business and contracts was arrogant and incorrect.


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So again the point of a contract is to hold both parties to a standard... i.e sla's and response time / uptime / etc............Not to lock them in, but just as customer is protected by those clauses a company ensures the revenue for said time. it works both ways.

As to your comment about "Real business" (and I don't know your exact situation) if you went down, if hardware failed, and you don't have a contract. How would you be compensated? I understand you're maybe in a unique situation, but for the rest of those claiming no contracts? What would they do? They'd go to the CEO of said company... put in a request and hope it gets resolved? Now who's being arrogant?

I do not have a server at MOJO but I deal with them for my clients so I am including them in my answer.

M3 would have me up and running on a new server pretty quicly, as would MOJO. There would not be an issue. If there were some other problems Travis (M3) or Brad (MOJO) would offer up a fair deal and get me through it.

Business is often based on a handshake and mutual trust.

There are implied contracts and they stand up in court. I purchased a service, I have the credit card billing to prove it. I have the emails stating exactly what I purchased. They fail to follow through on the product then I do have legal recourse.

Do you have an actual employment contract with TSS? If you do then you are in a minority. Most employees have no formal contract. They may have a written offer. They often have the employee handbook, but rarely have an actual contract (at least here in the states). They rely on trusting the company and the applicable laws.

REAL business is done all the time without formal contracts.

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Sarettah do you think we would not do the same? I've stated here many times and I did to the OP that I can give him a brand new environment everything squeaky new with all the bells and whistles, but what I can't do is write down contracted revenue that is out of my hands. Someone posted if you have a problem with the contracts email the CEO (he found it in two seconds)

As for business with a handshake, I understand that completely! It's how I was raised and how for the majority of my life I've behaved, however to get to the next level. I realized that with big business there come big contracts for the same reasons I listed in my replies above. If the people you mentioned above (and I actually like Brad) god forbid he had a stroke (and I only mention him because you did) or was hospitalized, couldn't speak or what have you. Well.... there would be alot of what if's in the air, or if someone showed up and just bought him? (not to say that someone is, but it can happen) what then?

See no one here said "We're not doing anything your under contract and that's it." I've offered all the help that I can, have shown him their auto renew date, told them to make a note of it, and still we're the bad guy? We're tricking people into contracts?

BTW we do have month to month contracts as well, their just priced accordingly...

and Yes I did sign an employee contract with TSS... and YES I trust TSS

Again, you are defending against points I did not raise.

I only commented about your comment regarding Real business and contracts.

Nowhere in here did I attack you or TSS or the way you guys handle business. I have never dealt with TSS. I dealt with NatNet a lot and they were a class operation. I have not heard much about TSS since the buyout occurred until this thread.

I only reacted to that one line about REAL business and contracts.

You have your opinion and I have mine.

Have a good night.

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Wireless companies have all gone away from contracts and 95% of the hosting biz has, its a dinosaur model that really is only meant to protect one party. To imply that no real business gets done without one is just simply false and wreaks of a snake oil salesman.

NatNet have always been cunts. Experince with them was a nighmare.

I personally feel that auto-renewing contracts are shady as fuck. Satelite tv does it, mobile phone networks do it, and it's shady as fuck. A contract is one thing - it's there to maintain standards etc as you said, but an auto-renewing contract that renews for 2 years if not cancelled 30 days before the end of the contract serves absolutely no purpose but to lock a customer in at (most likely) a cost that is higher then the service is worth since now the hardware is at least x years old and bandwidth prices are constantly going down using the hope that they forget about the auto renewal. I would understand if after the initial term it moves to a monthly auto-renewing contract (ie 30 days notice) but 2 years is an absurd term.

Places like Mojo and M3 are able to retain customers for years without resorting to contracts like that. This isn't a $20 cell phone contract, it's something someone runs their business off of and if they are unhappy with your support or service then it's unfair to lock them in for 2 years.

All I learned from this thread is to never, ever consider doing business with TSS after Omar chimed in.

Did I..

1) make them sign the NN contract?
2) did I not tell them they had an auto renewal policy, and provided them with the date?
3) If you believe contracts are made to protect only one party. I suggest you have an attorney read over anything you sign.

Again beating me up for doing my Job?


Don't know what grievances you had with NN, but if I can help out in any way. My email and Skype are in my sig.

I'm not talking about those companies and how they retain their business, I'm not in their shoes nor never have been a customer of theirs, but again what if one them just up and announces "We sold" Something to think about no?

Instead of resorting to name calling, or just being stubborn. I literally laid out what you had to do with out saying it in so many words above.

But for the sake of transparency.....

If you have time left in your contract (and if you don't know what that looks like) feel free to contact me. I will let you know exactly what those dates are and what you need to do. If you are trying to write down cost, I can't simply do that (if there is time left on the contract), someone above me approves that, and it would best to take it up with them... (you can email me or Skype me for that info) What I can do is try my best to get your environment to the most upto date tech out on the market today, but I cannot change the contract total... with out someone above me approving it.

Really? What did I hide? What have I kept secret or misinformative? Please tell me.. If I were trying to hide something. Where is that at? I just laid out what you OR any customer needs to do. Am I wrong?

Vacares.com doesnt have contracts by the way

I don't have any skin in the game so I'd normally just ghost whatever defense you wanted to put up, but since you chose to let me know reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, I'd add that to the list of reasons why also.

But anyway, you didn't hide anything. You just let me know that TSS is an antiquated company doing shady business tactics.

I'm your ideal customer, too, since I have about ~25 servers at various places and will likely add a few more to the list in August. Sucks to suck. :thumbsup

Yup, and Ryan's a pleasure to deal with. :thumbsup

I don't have a contract on any of my servers except 3, but that saved me 25% per month on a few media servers and it's just a one year, non renewing agreement that I asked for to save some cash.

Edit to clarify: None of those 3 servers are with Ryan.

Lolz yeah I miswrote something at 7:40 am.... TSS is not antiquated by any means, having 25 DC's across the globe, and 31 pops about to add a latin America DC to that mix as well... is your version of antiquated? but if you buy an intellectual property that has contracted revenue, and want to preserve that value. that's antiquated?

Look the fact of the matter is no matter what I say. Someone will have a gripe with it... but if you're in the business of doing business shoot that requirement list over. Whether you pick us or not... Just for shit's and giggles huh?

You might end up being surprised..

Yeah, your growth strategy is acquisition rather than making customers happy. I know how the game works, but nice try on trying to convince me otherwise, I guess. :thumbsup

Why would I try to fix what's not broken? And further, why would I waste my time trying to fix what's not broken by sending a list of requirements for a quote from a business that I strongly despise? That seems like a waste of time, which is not being in the "business of doing business". :winkwink:

If that's how you feel. I can only wish you well on your journey...

This....

Just want to add that I have dealt with Vacares for one of my clients and I would not hesitate to use them if I needed another server.

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The OP is talking about about a contract from 2006? - That's 14 years ago with a company that no longer exists for a product that no longer exists...

I had a contract or subscription with Certified Hosting which was purchased by TSS. I pay a low yearly price that is discounted for services. I understand everything Omar has addressed and I wonder why there is an issue. If you are not aware of what you are doing how do you think you can blame someone else for your ignorance?
My experience with TSS has been exceptional. Always a fast response to problems with excellent follow-up. Take responsibility for your own actions and stop whining.