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J. Falcon 09-26-2023 07:45 AM
Writers Win
 
‘Exceptional’: Hollywood writers hail tentative deal to end strike

Quote:
The tentative deal reached between Hollywood and studio executives has been received well by those on strike and others within the industry.

Members from the Writers Guild of America (WGA), who took on the Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers (AMPTP) with demands that included better pay and residuals, and safeguards on the use of artificial intelligence, shared their collective relief.
Members of both WGA and Sag-Aftra rally at Paramount Studios in Los Angeles on 13 September.

In a statement issued on Sunday, the WGA said: “We have reached a tentative agreement on a new 2023 MBA, which is to say an agreement in principle on all deal points, subject to drafting final contract language.

“What we have won in this contract – most particularly, everything we have gained since 2 May – is due to the willingness of this membership to exercise its power, to demonstrate its solidarity, to walk side-by-side, to endure the pain and uncertainty of the past 146 days. It is the leverage generated by your strike, in concert with the extraordinary support of our union siblings, that finally brought the companies back to the table to make a deal.”

The organization called the deal “exceptional”.

On Monday, Joe Biden issued a statement on the strike’s imminent end and praised the power of collective bargaining.

Column: The writers’ strike was the first workplace battle between humans and AI. The humans won

Quote:
The historic, 146-day writers’ strike finally appears to be over. Details are scarce, but the Writers Guild of America sounds triumphant: It’s calling the deal “exceptional” and heralding gains in just about every arena. And though there are many reasons that the union ultimately won out — smart organizing and a memeable picket line, strong allyship from SAG-AFTRA, and tactical blunders by the studio execs among them — there’s one thing above all that lighted up the action: The way the writers refused to let bosses use AI to exploit them.

At a moment when the prospect of executives and managers using software automation to undermine work in professions everywhere loomed large, the strike became something of a proxy battle of humans vs. AI. It was a battle that most of the public was eager to see the writers win. It’s not the only reason why Americans overwhelmingly had the writers’ backs over the studios — according to one Gallup poll, the public supported them over the execs by an astonishing margin of 72% to 19% — but it was a big one.

J. Falcon 09-26-2023 07:46 AM

JesseQuinn 09-26-2023 09:06 AM
this situation kinda reminds me of a wicked except from a Harlan Ellison interview that I've always loved

The Porn Nerd 09-26-2023 10:29 AM
Don't be silly. Just because a deal was struck does NOT mean "the writer's won!" In fact, if you look closely at the deal, the future does not look bright for Hollywood writers.

The writer's settled out of desperation. The Studios are taking this opportunity to kill off a lot of bad writing contracts and TV/film projects. Don't be fooled. Big Business always 'wins" these things.

I predict another writer's strike in five years but by then it will be too late.

J. Falcon 09-26-2023 10:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd (Post 23181261)
In fact, if you look closely at the deal, the future does not look bright for Hollywood writers.
For example?

JesseQuinn 09-26-2023 11:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd (Post 23181261)
Don't be silly. Just because a deal was struck does NOT mean "the writer's won!" In fact, if you look closely at the deal, the future does not look bright for Hollywood writers.

The writer's settled out of desperation. The Studios are taking this opportunity to kill off a lot of bad writing contracts and TV/film projects. Don't be fooled. Big Business always 'wins" these things.

I predict another writer's strike in five years but by then it will be too late.
yes, Big Business will always put their interests first, but the point is they're not in business without the writers, and the writers have interests as well

the agreement hasn't been released in detail yet but it does appear that there were some gains achieved when it comes to streaming residuals and the role of AI in the writing process (as in, taking an idea, story or script from a writer/writers and using that content as a basis for an AI-completed product, without credit or compensation)


a strike is partially about reminding biz leaders that they can't profit without the other 'side'. hollywood lost a ton of money during this strike


so not a 'win' in a zero sum game sense, but business isn't zero sum, there's massive interdependency

I dunno, we'll see I guess. just I think this strike was important in light of how rapidly tech and distribution models have changed since these contracts were created. if it passes it's only for 3 years, who knows what the technological landscape will look like by then?

lezinterracial 09-26-2023 06:16 PM
I don't really like anything on tv. So much more fun to do it yourself. I like taking old grimm's fairy tales and using stable diffusion to make the images. I want to write a few stories myself. They suck and I will never sell anything.
Just so much more fun and I would encourage people to try it.

JesseQuinn 09-26-2023 10:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lezinterracial (Post 23181455)
...
that one cracked me up. is that your channel? well done if so

the Grimms' stories (man, I loved those stories as a kid, we're always drawn to the gory) are public domain by now so no harm no foul making derivative works with the text. and yet you still credit the orig creators so props :thumbsup

loved your Robber Bridegroom one too. if that's your channel, my absolute fav author out of many many many wrote a book called The Robber Bride which flipped the script gender-wise in a modern times setting. and she too credited the original as her inspiration. brilliant adaptation that kept the spirit of the original intact

do Fitcher's Bird!!!

lezinterracial 09-26-2023 11:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JesseQuinn (Post 23181559)
that one cracked me up. is that your channel? well done if so

the Grimms' stories (man, I loved those stories as a kid, we're always drawn to the gory) are public domain by now so no harm no foul making derivative works with the text. and yet you still credit the orig creators so props :thumbsup

loved your Robber Bridegroom one too. if that's your channel, my absolute fav author out of many many many wrote a book called The Robber Bride which flipped the script gender-wise in a modern times setting. and she too credited the original as her inspiration. brilliant adaptation that kept the spirit of the original intact

do Fitcher's Bird!!!
Thanks. It is a lot of fun.

I will look into Fitcher's Bird. I want to try some old folk tales as well. I have been reading old Norse tales. But I don't know if elevenlabs could translate those crazy names.

JesseQuinn 09-27-2023 12:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lezinterracial (Post 23181563)
I will look into Fitcher's Bird. I want to try some old folk tales as well. I have been reading old Norse tales. But I don't know if elevenlabs could translate those crazy names.
at least a few Grimms' stories were based in Nordic tales. I only know Norse myths though, not the folklore. the Norse myths were cool, but what I read of the tales was straight outta Germany, some adapted apparently as those Nordics got around

when I visited the Black Forest my god it was so many stories come to life. lots of forests in Canada but none like those 'cross the sea

rich and foreboding, can see why those bros wrote and compiled what they did. but yeah, lots of Nordic ref's, including in Fitcher's

I have no idea why eng lang based AI would have difficulty translating names with 700 f, j and k consonants for every vowel in words or names :upsidedow


if you do Fitcher's Bird I bet you'll have fun with it. if you make it post it please. I'd love to see it

lezinterracial 09-27-2023 12:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JesseQuinn (Post 23181574)

if you do Fitcher's Bird I bet you'll have fun with it. if you make it post it please. I'd love to see it
Will do. I want to do the story "The poor boy in the grave" too. That one gets me.

CaptainHowdy 09-27-2023 03:11 PM
You can never win . . .

https://i.imgur.com/by6UiCH.jpg

just a punk 10-01-2023 11:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Falcon (Post 23181192)
Writers Win
For a few months or maybe half a year. After that, new scenario-writing companies will be set up, and they won't be bound by any contracts - they won't have to honor any agreements with human writers, because they won't even have to hire them. Perhaps these companies will be set up as subsidiaries of OpenAI...

Adapt or die :2 cents:

AmeliaG 10-02-2023 03:10 PM
As technology democratizes the ability to create content, I think we will continue sliding down the slippery slope there. Pretty sure YouTube and PornHub are not signatories to any new agreement and the technology is only going to get better.

One can discuss what might be just, in a just world, but the reality is that humans are going to do what they are able to do.

I'm catching more and more writers I hire using AI writing. I don't care, so long as they can do it in a way where I can't tell, so I'm sure I don't catch the folks doing a good job of using the tech.

JesseQuinn 10-02-2023 05:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmeliaG (Post 23183887)
As technology democratizes the ability to create content, I think we will continue sliding down the slippery slope there. Pretty sure YouTube and PornHub are not signatories to any new agreement and the technology is only going to get better.

One can discuss what might be just, in a just world, but the reality is that humans are going to do what they are able to do.

I'm catching more and more writers I hire using AI writing. I don't care, so long as they can do it in a way where I can't tell, so I'm sure I don't catch the folks doing a good job of using the tech.
I get what you're saying. your post raises some important thoughts toward the future, and I hope you're right

but esp the way you interact with writers who do themselves use AI I agree with you 100%

of course peeps are gonna use AI, (not me, unless, I used it to condense thoughts, but trying manually first). if it helps their work flow with no negative effects? no harm no foul. and puts money in all pockets


but if you used a human writer's script outline or story as a basis for an AI script (which would no doubt suck but whatever)? AI listening to a bunch of comedians 'round a desk ad-libbing, brainstorming ideas for the next show. to be taken by AI cuz they'd have no rights under the last contract?

or in the case of SAG images/video too? without credit or compensation? there's nothing right about any of that


the 'using AI' thing had nothing to do with the Hollywood strikes, I don't think. it's about asserting rights in an AI environment

haven't following all that closely but interested as it's an episode that deals with both AI in general in workplaces, and also the important role of unions but I'll stop here so as to not get this thread kicked to the nether regions


their issue was, as best I can interpret:


Quote:
Originally Posted by JesseQuinn (Post 23181278)
...and the role of AI in the writing process (as in, taking an idea, story or script from a writer/writers and using that content as a basis for an AI-completed product, without credit or compensation)

there's a difference, right?


hope all is amazing with you Ms G :)

AmeliaG 10-04-2023 08:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JesseQuinn (Post 23183951)
I get what you're saying. your post raises some important thoughts toward the future, and I hope you're right

but esp the way you interact with writers who do themselves use AI I agree with you 100%

of course peeps are gonna use AI, (not me, unless, I used it to condense thoughts, but trying manually first). if it helps their work flow with no negative effects? no harm no foul. and puts money in all pockets


but if you used a human writer's script outline or story as a basis for an AI script (which would no doubt suck but whatever)? AI listening to a bunch of comedians 'round a desk ad-libbing, brainstorming ideas for the next show. to be taken by AI cuz they'd have no rights under the last contract?

or in the case of SAG images/video too? without credit or compensation? there's nothing right about any of that


the 'using AI' thing had nothing to do with the Hollywood strikes, I don't think. it's about asserting rights in an AI environment

haven't following all that closely but interested as it's an episode that deals with both AI in general in workplaces, and also the important role of unions but I'll stop here so as to not get this thread kicked to the nether regions


their issue was, as best I can interpret:





there's a difference, right?


hope all is amazing with you Ms G :)

*hugs* :)

I guess the movie and TV industry has disputes all the time over things like scripts being created from a treatment.

For example, James O'Barr, creator of The Crow, wanted to do a project with a female version of the character. He was inspired by a story of a bride impacted by tragedy. He wrote a pitch to do the movie, but the studio turned it down, although they paid him like $10k for the treatment. He says he was disappointed when he went to see Quentin Tarantino's Kill Bill and the movie was pretty obviously based on his treatment. Attorneys were of the opinion that he was paid for the treatment with no guarantee that, if the movie were made, he would be the one who got to make it.

No AI involved there. But what difference would it really make if a human were paid for a treatment that an AI later wrote the script from?

I think there is a certain creative sorrow involved either way, but I don't write in a corporate studio environment, and it seems like that is just the nature of that sort of labor, with or without AI.


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