ok ok, i get it, you realize afghanistan is a quaqmire. guys on dirtbikes, ok ok, fuck. i don't need you to inform me of that, fyi, i said that to my friends from the beginning, 8+ fucking years ago. fucking whoopie. russians got drug into there and came out losers, i knew we would too.

i also don't need you to tell me war is murder. fyi, ALL wars are murder. period. the end. i've known that since before fucking college. every war up to the era of smart weapons included TARGETING civilians, the u.s. doesn't have a monoply on that and we certainly did not event it. look up guernica, look up dresden, look up any war throughout time. civilians were murdered. create fear, destroy the will of the people. that's the goal. fuck. you act like just because you are just now figuring that out that it's new and no one else knows about it.

wrong.

none of that is me trying to get anyone to agree with me or see things the way i see them. that's me stating my view, you = fucking dense as a rock.

and a fucking coward.

anyhoo, i'm hitting the hay. thanks for the big revelation that war is murder, wow, had no fucking idea.

All you have is is your opinion. If you have not been there then you have no idea what is truly going on. I was in iraq in 2004, 2005, 2006, As well as Afghanistan in 2007, 2009. I still do the occasional contract job in those despicable countries. I don't give it a second thought about anyone I have killed, shot, or maimed. I sleep very well and yes I can look myself in the mirror just fine. If I may borrow a line from blackhawk down "It's all about the man next to you, that's all it is"

And I'm sure there are rapists out there that sleep perfectly well too. You think Bin Laden has any problems sleeping or looking at himself in the mirror? What about Hitler (aside from him being dead)? Just because you 'think' what you're doing is ok you need to look at what the rest of the world thinks of you to get a real idea.

The reason you guys are losing is because its NOT about the man next to you but about the cause you are fighting for. Are you not embarrassed that with all your guns and technology you guys take decades to fight people with the most basic weapons? I'd be embarrassed of every single guy around me while I was fighting if I was was you!

Dynamo I'm just stating my point too. Thanks for bringing out the personal attacks, it makes me know that I've won the argument. Good night!

Edit: Now you are admitting the soldiers are murderers? Welcome to my side buddy!!

The reason the fighting in Afghanistan has been going on for years is for the very same reason the conflict in Vietnam went on for years. Our politicians allow safe haven for our enemy.

We overthrew the Taliban government and drove out Osama's forces in a matter of weeks...but ever since we have allowed them safe haven in Pakistan.

They enter Afghanistan via Pakistan...and when we engage them and decimate them...they retreat back into Pakistan...tend to their wounded...rest...recruit...rearm and retrain...then reenter into Afghanistan again.

This is why I...long ago...said that our Politicians are doing the same identical thing they did in Vietnam...micro managing the conflict and not allowing the military to conduct the fight as it should be conducted...thus we should withdraw our forces.

If one does not cut off safe havens and supply routes...the killing will continue for a prolonged...indefinite period of time...with out a predictable end. Or with a very predictable end...the American public growing tired of the conflict will eventually take to the streets by the millions...as they did during the Vietnam conflict and demand an end.

And the outcome of Vietnam was? You lost. Q.E.D.

Good night sir.

I wouldn't say they've lost in Afghanistan/Iraq at all... Win/lose isn't as clearly defined as one side waving the white flag and tapping out.



Note that the number 1 on the list Kellogg Brown & Root is a subsidiary of Halliburton. Hell, That list is 6 years behind the times now. Those seem like losing numbers to you? I guess determining the win/lose status depends entirely on what the addresor's original intent was...

Just for shits and giggles, look over the top 10 in that list on awarded contracts and compare them with this one regarding contractor campaign contributions in the 12 years leading up to 2002, the beginning of the contract list...

Recognize any names there? 4 of the top 10 contributors can be found in the list of 10 largest Afghan/Iraq contracts awarded since 2002. Parsons, Fluor, and KBR, the top 3 largest contract holders between 2002-2004 were in the top 10 campaign contributors in the decade leading up to those years. Coincidence?

This is all theorizing that they actually want to "win" and get out. :2 cents:

But if you were a Taliban aren't you just trying to make them leave your country? So if the US leaves Afghanistan the Taliban win. That's just how I saw it but I see your point.

We withdrew all of our military forces in '73. South Vietnam fell to the North in '75. It was they who lost.

I am not theorizing that the government wants to win and get out. I am assuming that they do not want a swift end to the conflict...for whatever their reasons...just as it is apparent they did not want a swift end to the Vietnam conflict...once again...for whatever their reasons.

LOL Good night theking, I'm going to go to sleep and enter your world.

I don't think there's any theorizing at all as to what's going on over there when you see which groups are profiting from it, and who in the government stands to benefit from those groups' profits.

It doesn't agitate you even a little bit that your government is spending trillions of your tax dollars and sending your young citizens over to risk the loss of their lives so that few rich and powerful people who appear to operate above the law can up their net worth a few million a year?

Is that the America that you love and fight for?

i think the reason the U.S. lost vietnam and afghanistan is you can't make people like you , especially by smashing them into submission, you may get them to submit , but the moment you turn your back they will be on you.

There is no way to win other than to kill everyone there.

The government uses our military for the sake of "perceived" national interests...be it self defense...geopolitcal...or economic interests. American businesses are a part of our economic power. It has been said that what is good for business is good for America and there is a lot of truth to that.

I am not in a position to know what the government knows thus I am not in a position to understand why the government does the things that it does.

I certainly do not approve of all that our government does or all of what private enterprise does...far from it...but ultimately I think that government attempts to do what it "perceives" to be in the best interest of our country.

I long ago chose not be become an activist. I limit my activism to the power of the vote and letters of complaint to my congressman...and I do not have any intention of changing this position at this point in time.

You seem to forget Japan and Germany. We smashed them into submission and both are now good allies...and economic powers.

BTW...we did not lose Vietnam...South Vietnam did...we with drew our forces in '73 and the South fell in '75...and we have not lost Afghanistan at this point in time.

I did not see this post earlier...but the answer is of course not...but PF apparently made such an impression on some of the members...they like to think that he is still alive...even more than eight years after his death.

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

any americans change their view of war/america and/or plan to send along the thread starter's video & message to the so-called murderous coward soldiers and their families during this holiday season?

would like to get a head count of how effective these sorts of campaigns by our wonderful neighbor to the north are.

please post if you have.

.. except the iraqis .... :2 cents:

and here i thought the people that went into the armed forces had 'no options'

but i guess it's easy convincing 18 year olds that killins' fine

don't you love it when 20 year olds read for 5 minutes and act like they are the only ones enlightened to everything? They feel the need to lecture the world of how messed up it is and that everyone needs to wake up...

This is me waking up.. realizing that people posting at 4am (in my time zone) on a work night probably shouldn't be listened to at all...

exactly. :thumbsup they're like a 14 year old boy who just got laid for the 1st time and is now running around acting like a pussy expert.

Japan you guys took the easy way out, murdered hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians just like what Al Qaeda does right now, be proud! Germany was smashed into submission by the pure might of the Soviets - not the Americans.

Hey theking, do you know what losing means? It means what you were fighting for to happen doesn't happen and what you were fighting to stop from happening happens.

You guys lost Vietnam. Everyone knows that. Going to be losing Afghanistan soon and everyone can see that coming. Sucks that even with all the weapons and technology these guys are kicking the US's butt, maybe it's time US soldiers learned a thing or two from their Taliban superiors. :1orglaugh

Dynamo: For someone that believes so strongly in what the US is doing, why aren't you there fighting with your brethren? If I believed in a struggle that my country was going through I'd be the first one to sign up to help. Or is all you have left personal insults against me?

everyone knows about the My Lai massacre. If you go into the army or marines in 2010 you're definitely going to be sent to Iraq or Afghanistan. Back in the day the vietmanese were called gooks. today the arabs are called durkha's. Potential soldiers should think ahead and realise that they probably will be ordered to kill babies and civilians. Like Vietnam, there is no enemy in uniform in Iraq. Any civilian could be a soldier. This is why these guys get nervous and trigger happy. They just kill anyone and hope its a combatant.

If you walk into a normal bar and try and punch everyone in the face yr going to get yr ass kicked eventually. This is what the US does in these countries. These wars are not supposed to be won.

Hey man if it's a work night for you then go back to sleep. Some of us are on our own schedules and we sleep and stay up whenever we want. Sucks to be you, homie!

Love how no one here can come up with a logical argument so they resort to personal attacks. Well done guys! On here it goes, in any real debate you guys would have been laughed out of the room by now. PR_Glen if you had one hundredth the knowledge I do on the subject then you'd be with me for sure. But ignorance is a dangerous thing, and instead of reading and educating yourself all you have left is insulting people.

wow, you are dense, full of yourself and entirely full of shit. you come here and push your agenda of enlightening others to your way of thinking about soldiers being cowardly murderers whose families should shun then and have the audacity to tell me i should go fight when you completely make that position up?

when did i EVER claim i believe in those wars? in fact, i said in this thread war = murder and i am on the record here stating we need to end those wars- period.

moreover, your complete lack of knowledge of historical events is one of the worst i've ever seen an adult have. look up the bombing of japan prior to dropping those bombs and see what the casualty rates were and were projected to be. fact is, those bombs saved lives, some say millions. a fact you will fail at comprehending.

once a soldier, he's bound to obey. the sad part to me is how can anyone these days be naive enough to think they will get to fight for an ideal? freedom, democracy, etc... US hasnt fought for any of these since the civil war... even WW2 was about money

In Japan, the US soldiers were too cowardly to go in and do the actual fighting, they were scared they would die, the Japanese were down to fight, but the Americans pussied out and used their pussy atom bomb to end it quick. Things don't really change that much I guess.

So if someone today 'estimated' that killing 50% of the United States would save more lives in the long run, you would be all for it?

I'm talking your mom/dad/kids all had to be killed so others can live, is that ok with you?

If Al Qaeda says that their attack on the World Trade Center saved lives in the long run, then it makes those attacks okay? Come on, they saved lives, maybe even millions.

Nuclear bombs were used that murdered hundreds of thousands of civilians that had nothing to do with the war. The bottom line is that again the US showed itself to be the biggest bully and murderer this world has ever seen. Hope you are proud to be part of that!

And yes, the soldiers fighting there are little coward pussies as can be clearly shown when they get afraid of fighting guys that have 1/100th the firepower as they do.

Damn YOU Rabbit!!!

You'll screw everyone up in this thread by making sense and being a Canadian :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

keep proving your ignorance by posting. you have no comprehension about ww2 facts whatsoever. hindsight is 20/20 for elitist people like you who think your view is the right one and only one. fact is, you are interpreting an event that took place 70+ years ago during an absolutely horrific time in 2010 light from the comfort of your office chair and behind a keyboard.

that's failed logic.

you aren't familiar with bosnia? oh, who was the aggressor in ww2 again?

crickets.

So you think it's okay that hundreds of thousands of innocent people were killed?

And MY logic is failed? Right.

What happened is the United States committed the biggest terror attack known to man kind, an attack on civilians in order to terrorize them so that they would hopefully surrender. Sounds like what Al Qaeda tried with the World Trade Centers - I guess you support their reasoning for that as well?

Getting your panties in a bunch is enough for me. Mission accomplished!

Sorry that you don't believe in anything enough and aren't confident enough in yourself to try to make sure people know what they're doing is wrong.

Keep being a follower dynamo - luckily you have leaders like me to do the dirty work.

If anyone watched that video and it didn't effect them at all they need to get checked out. Watch the murder being committed by your brave men and women over there, cold blooded murder. And better yet, watch them do the killing from where the guys being killed have no chance of fighting back - proving yet again that US forces in Afghanistan are a bunch of coward pussies.

thanks for proving each and every one of my points in a single post.

what a leader. your parents must be proud.

I just led you into helping me keep this thread at the top for almost a full day now. You are unknowingly helping me do exactly what I intended.

Keep it up buddy, more views is what I want and little posts like that one are perfect for bumping me right up to the top. Thanks for the help dynamo!

wow, your life goals are so lofty.

and you do realize that's the typical gfy troll reply right? thanks for bumping my shitty thread, i've signed up 400 more affiliates thanks to you!

you aren't fooling anyone.