Dont think Bobby Manila would share your feelings.

How many times does it have to be explained to you that you do not need 100m cash to spend 100m on buying a company.

Paul, don't you have a puzzle to play with?

Densely written but worthy and quoted for truth!

looks as top notch bros, no bullshit guys at all :1orglaugh
really curious why they needed 24h security guys around them, probably some :error

Yep, they (still known as Juggcash) told me they were going to "take over porn" when I sat down with them in their room at the show. Obviously by that time they had the war chest of cash ready to flow. They were very very confident they knew how to display content in order to sell it better than anyone else in the industry. They knew nothing at that time about producing content but were hungry to learn. They started off with cheap shoots but soon opened the floodgates and actually put real money into shoots. At that time they were studying Bang Bros every move and about a year later Bang Bros were studying Brazzers. Even the Bang Bros guys admitted to me that Brazzers were masters at displaying content to get conversions.

yeah good for you stephan and Fabien, you paid me well 4-5 years ago, but now because of the tube sites you started / running now, you helped kill off a lot of membership sites out there. Or are in the process of killing them off, reducing the amount of business I can do for other companies. You better start kissing ass harder because Brazzer might be one of the last couple clients you have because of the other companies going out of business.


Most of you, honestly are fucking clueless. I don't know any other way to put it. It's amazing how clueless so many people on this site are and how some of the people try to shovel you shit to hide things and you people just eat it up.

like manwin created the tube model you fucking idiot. if manwin disappeared it wouldn't change a damn thing. quit whining and enjoy your day off.

no shit stupid fuck, but just because they didn't create it doesnt mean that they arent the ones putting the dagger into a lot of these companies that are going out of business or will be going out. it's just funny to watch the people who are affected most by this ride their jock when it was them who contributed to these producers losing business now and more so in the future.

lol, you are one of the biggest anon trolls on here. I'll enjoy my day off, you continue to spend 24 hours a day posting on here wasting your pathetic life. enjoy dumb fuck.

zero, how many times do you people think you need to explain it to me. I get it, you keep missing it.

Fabien "claims" to be the only owner or what ever. He claims the money made has all been done by him and his investments / acquisitions. He claims to have made 140 million. I am just responding to what he is claiming. I don't believe him though. I think it is much more likely that he is playing with somene else's money, but that is not the story he wants you to believe.


I'm out, im breaking my own rules I implemented that I would stop wasting time posting about stupid bullshit and arguing with idiots. later.

Will 76
I do not have to worry about kissing asses, I will continue to produce top rated content, for companies that want it,. and let you suckers that believe your shitty content and sites, will make you money with 1996 thinking.. you should go back to third grade and listen to some progressive kids, they are the next brazzers or amazon or facebook..... they all did the same thing,,,

in fact i do not have to hide, will post my thread on a new posting and see what happens, i never hide

Paul Markham
The scene you jerked off to last night where mine, I am not the only one shooting for them... so keep enjoying them..

They didn't even generate a flicker in my cock. I found them contrived and very formatted. Nothing made me sit up and take real notice. It was very fake and as I said "porn by numbers"

The biggest problem, as a critique is, they had nothing to separate them from 10,000s of other scenes that have been going around for year.

Is this one of your?

Brazzers Golfing

Nothing led me to believe it was shot by anyone who had a clue. Some of the framing is awful.

Get with the times. I finished that one, won't start the next till Friday.

I have been looking into LA producers to shoot 60 scenes for an upcoming project. Your name has been tossed in the hat twice now along with a few others and I was considering you until I read your posts today. You sound like a complete asshole.

Maybe if you were not taking photos of your sister when you were 15 years old and stayed in school, you would have learned what paragraphs are all about.

For what it's worth, the amount of companies who are going to need someone like you is diminishing. Enjoy it while it lasts.

That last story with the girl, giving it all away for free. That is just made up shit... I smell rat...:1orglaugh

Just build a fucking tube already and make 1/10 of Manwin.

Here is my thinking, Repeat visitors to their tubes, by giving away free videos and building trust. Then they convert their traffic with Brazzers, which is shot in a different way...then cams, then..ads..

I bet they are building a lot of trust by just giving those clips away.

Probably doing like $30,000 a day from their tubes alone. Maybe that's low too, or maybe that's high. What the hell do I know.

All I know is that quiet used to giveaway 2-3 minute clips on his Hun listings. That guy had done his homework on what converts the best. Well done to him. And that was way back in time.

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh

you're up for a coffee then?

I agree that poor/serial content is one of the weak links of the industry.

HOWEVER, it is really not uncommon in other industries to spend much more than 50% of budgets in marketing. (fashion brands and soft drinks, among others, spend typically much more than this percentage for their marketing. The music industry, in the good ol' days, could spend 90% of budgets in marketing, in any given year - it's fucked up now, but for other reasons)

It's the weakest link. Because now BW costs are so low and speeds are fast it has left 1,000s of site with nothing to sell that's different from the next guy and what's given away for free.

Even Brazzers content is nothing exceptional, it's average and cloned on loads of sites and given away for free by themselves on their Tubes. It really makes no difference if they only give away 5 minute clips of their own content. They give away the same scene from another site in full length.

Comparing porn to fashion, soft drinks and music is flawed thinking. Theirs Kudos about wearing a Gucci outfit, drinking the in drink and listening to the latest music. But not in jerking off to "Bum Boys of Brazil" :winkwink:

maxjohan building trust to get a $30 join is only the first step. If you can't deliver on that trust you're double disappointed and less likely to trust as fast again. After 15 years of relying on failed selling techniques we are where we are today. Porn is a regular requirement for the customers, we treated it as a one off sale.

Yes anytime.

Well, I hate tubes too but what are you suposed to do?

You could close your eyes and dream about the old days of porn. Or you can work a little harder, and try to make money like in the old days. It's up to you.

Fabian are you german???

Note to self: Never mess with a retired man.

Paul, you are probably the most branded guy in here. And that's because you toot the horn in every thread about your anti tube/pirate stuff. I mean your unforgetable...and old too, that's only more charming :winkwink:

I think you are right to a point. Porn sales fall down with the full length porn. But as you get older, you realize that the truly good stuff isn't free(when you have better income). At least when we talk about classy stuff like Hegre and Ftv girls. I also believe to a point that the full length stuff, make some people more open to porn. (as have been said)

I wasn't here in the good old days, but I've heard that the pay sites had crap content(cookie cutter), and many were banging creditcards to get rich.

Today we have, The Milf hunter, Videobox, Videosz, and the bangbros team, Brazzers, and so many others...

The quality has gone up. The webmasters have increased, indeed. And I'm ready for war... but yes, it would'nt feel bad if the pirate tubes were destroyed... because they control so much traffic now. :mad:

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

The 'classy' sites have been hit just as hard as any other paysites.

The remaining customers who will pay for porn you are correct - they're older men with good incomes who would rather pay than spend the time hunting around for direct download links to the porn they like.

Wow someone fucked up making money for tens of thousands of others, Awesome! Any other business and they people would dealt with but in Porn anything goes I guess.

i thought he was only a "managing partner"

how about tomorrow, Thursday, 4 pm?

Any thread that has to do with Brazzers sure gets the hot discussion going, I think the fact is the company was built on blood money, double triple and quadruple cross-sells/upgrades, stolen content tube sites, then Manwin came in and took over and are making it legit now. They are a powerhouse, they employ the most talented sales and marketing staff I've ever worked with, you can't argue with the results.

Tubes are mainstream biz practice now, and as usual in the biz, whoever gives away the most ends up holding most of the cards. Time to move on, they aren't going anywhere.

I agree with you about the good stuff. But there I have a problem.

Which sites have employed top notch shooters, that are paid more for shooting DVD publishers? The list of top shooters getting out of the game and going to other types of photography is long.

Brazzers I've had a chance to look inside and it's not good content. It's average. The others I can't comment on. I have been inside another so called top quality site and it was disappointing. They had got a good shooter in to shoot some great scenes that obviously cost money, the main content was bad and was full of basic mistakes.

Also go around and ask what the content shooters charge to shoot a scene. The prices are not conducive to producing good content. Even Dean Capture commented on the main thing being getting within a price and getting all the work done. You don't produce top quality anything by cutting the price.

IMO the only way to compete with Tubes isn't to join them. It's to offer something in the members area that's not available for free on 100s of Tube sites.

The quality of porn hasn't gone up since the late 90s. Yes the quality of the image has, but that's got little to do with the porn value. It's about getting dicks hard not the image crisper.

Might do, let me check with the boss. Or next week.

Agreed.

The majority guys paying for porn today are those who know what they like, know what they want and have narrow fields of porn interests. Kids will jerk off to anything that remotely excites them. They haven't had time to develop their porn tastes. :winkwink:

at 13 a lingerie catalogue does its job

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

For old timers like us it's all there was. Nowadays they have pornhub.

What the fuck do they have to look forward to?

Wondering why they suck in bed because their GF isn't screaming the house down while they fuck them. Or wondering why she is as they shove it in her ass without warming it up. :1orglaugh

lol... Your nickname should be Cartman or something...

We also promote Brazzers content (teasers / sitereviews) on www.naughty4nature.com and must say that they have top content. However it didnt make any signups by promoting their content but adding and reviewing their clips is always a pleasure :D

About how Nathan/Fabien did it, solo action, partner of an investors group or whatever, what does it matter? The guy is successful.

They did pretty well with their acquisitions and in this speed and strategy they will/are for sure be #1

Probably they cater millions of people with free and paid content and they know what kind of formula works for them the best otherwise they can't do these kind of numbers.

Conclusion, totally not bad for someone who started with coding and later SEO activities.

Hey look everyone... paid advertisement!!!



Though I agree with the content quality and the money being thrown about... its hard to take this response with any clout because its quite obvious that you are completely biased to the situation. You mentioned the qualities of the outfit... but how does that all justify the outright theft and manipulation?

Yes... good for them... but also... shame on them.

http://i.min.us/jbQ9lI.jpg

http://i.min.us/ibQ4V2.jpg

Nicky Milo is obviously a very respected shooter in the LA arena, he shoots for many different programs not only these guys. Who cares what Bobby Manila thinks of them?

I enjoy reading these posts, lots to be read between the lines and while no poster can figure out the whole truth, there are lots of truth's posted.

:warning WOW! :warning

I'm not sure if I should be disgusted or impressed.

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

you can be disgustedly impressed i guess?

I see myfreecams is cited often in those tube threads:

Now you say MFC doesn't take away from other cam sites, unlikely tubes take away from pre-recorded content sites. You say that guys can change site and do a private in a site other than MFC despite they're watching free nude live shows in MFC all day and MFC provides private chats?
Seems inaccurate, as in every market, whatever big player take away from smaller players, whatever the reason the big one became big (honest or not, nice or ugly, free give away or not).
That has been facebook took away from myspace, google took away from yahoo... also MFC took away from other cam sites when it became bigger.
And when guys have MFC in bookmark and stay there, are not closing it to open another cam site for doing a private chat, they will do it in MFC and rarely return on old cam sites who, in meantime, may have less then the thousand online models at any time in MFC.
And MFC give away live porn so gets and sticks traffic without need to pay all this traffic, only part of it, this is the same of tubes, free content = get and retain lots traffic for free.

I would also question, if people there say cams will always go well and problem is only who shoot prerecorded content, why the cam sites around of 5 years ago? I mean same companies and owners, if some changed name or spin off not counts. Can you tell me how many totally new and independent cam sites (also not using streamray models via API or whitelabeling in any way) was out in past 2 years and are now very big and healthy?
Note that MFC exists from 5+ years and became popular exponentially only after 2009, like facebook took years, now people think is a new site but is not at all, and if someone to open a cam site today should consider it may take years to reach the critical mass, after which there's the exponential growth (and this accordingly with who's in top at the moment).

Widely, if you have a big player (free content or not, cams of pre-recorded, important is became bigger), since each a single guy will not use many different sites for same purpose, but one or two only (due to time, lazyness, doing what everyone else does etc.), then the bigger player eats a lot the smaller ones. Is like: the first get 70%, the second 20%, the third 10%, then others the 1% and less. When the new top replace the old top, the old top lose accordingly big and quickly as the growing one raises (just with a correction of the increase of total audience as Nathan says, but of course this global audience growth is of benefit of sites who grow and can't balance the loss of who lose, who simply see the loss).

Now for porn if guys use one or two bookmarks only, you rather put a big tube than a small tube, and a tube rather than a tgp/mgp, and so on. The same would be for cams, guys may have seen many cam sites and maybe registered, but then will decide to use one and usually is who is bigger or have some plus, one of which is free shows. Maybe you did not noticed but visualsecrets added free naked shows for tips, streamate added "gold" which is tips often used to flash tits for free, and so on most old style cam sites are actually hit by MFC and answering by provide free stuff too or mimic it, like most pay site owners launched tubes (with or without success at it).

I run cam sites from 2004 which is before of tubes and MFC (MFC was there shortly after but kept small andunknown for years), at that time there was many new cam sites launched and some became those who are top today, but also lots of those who was big closed. Then after 2008-2009 the ratio of new cam sites who launch and keep and and become big it dropped to zero, same or more than launch new pre-precorded pay site programs. Still total of money spent in cams probably kept same or grown, but simply it concentrated on those few big cam sites, the last one to join being MFC, and eventually done it because of free shows but not only. Like brazzers may have lots of paid signups because advertized in unsold ad spots of pornhub/tube8 etc. but not only.

That's more a matter of oligopoly due to reached a dominant market position and missing of an anti-trust to force Brazzers/Manwin or MFC to be smaller (like someone wanted to split Microsoft in pieces as dominate operating systems). How this dominant market position was reached can be debated, either for Microsoft and Manwin or MFC, but is reached and actually yes, it take away from others, just because users are lazy and do what others do, so they all have a microsoft windows, all dropped myspace for facebook account, and all go at pornhub for a quick wank. Of course if they're always in a certain site for free, whoever may want to pay for something, will get the idea what to pay from same site he's there always for free, and not from site who have no traffic.
Same applies for MFC, if guys are there for free, maybe after a month or a year one of them will have the idea to buy a private, but will do there and not in another cam site they're never into (whatever popups bounce him there daily).

My 2 euro cents