Yes I'm going to shoot it and already have some things in place.

I think this better than anything SO FAR in this thread shows the industry growth.

http://paulmarkham.com/temp/billing.jpg

The biggest biller has suffered over the last 2 years and no others have taken up the loss.

Not even Epoch.

Might try for one of the best girls as budget isn't a problem. and will try to make them put everything into it as budget isn't a problem. If she doesn't will send her home and shoot it with another girl as getting it right is the aim, not in on a limited budget.

I expect even if I produce the most outstanding porn scene ever most will flame me. I'm in a lose, lose situation. Why am I doing it? $3,000 spends in the shops. Bro points doesn't.

*****************************************

Either I'm bad at explaining myself or people won't see it.

Over all the industry for paid porn is down. Not cams or dating. Paid action porn that has been the main money maker for decades.

Instead of looking at the models of the other parts of the porn industry and seeing where they got it right and where they got it wrong and what cause their massive decline. This industry carried on in isolation.

What brought down a lot of porn companies was filling the shelves with cheap content, in the belief that the more titles the more revenue. Didn't happen. These label/brands lost customer loyalty. The best brands picked it up.

The other real harm was free porn on the Internet. The magazines couldn't really compete overall. A few have stayed and will go eventually, but the only thing that kept them was customer loyalty.

Putting up more and more sites with low to average level quality porn has 2 effects. It makes it easier for a competitor to open a porn site and loses retention and customer loyalty.

Adding more and more free porn to the Internet teaches people not to spend.

Learn from others, their mistakes and their achievements.

:2 cents:

Both Brighton and Brno are very nice towns. Anyone leaving there should be happy.

It required a considerable amount of technical skill to produce pictures for magazines back in the days of film, had to be shot on colour reversal slide material, with little tolerance for poor exposure.


Damian is very talented with words.

A sofa is no quide to a persons worth.

Who cares if someone is succesful, rich or poor, makes moneys or doesn't - is that how we judge our friends?

paul.. using ccbill.com is a bad idea since bill.ccbill.com is the actual join page, which is the only domain that matters, that graph does not show you that...

With epoch though, the domain for the join page is wnu.com .... check that one on alexa ;)

And your comparison with Paul Raymond Publications, LFP, Goldstar, Swank, Crescent, Score, David Sullivan's porn company, Northern & Shell, Private, Penthouse, Playboy, Vivid, Wicked, Evil Angel is rather funny... I would say only 2 of those are close to our size: LFP and Playboy. Every other one is BY FAR smaller than us. Both employee and revenue wise.

You really do not get our size Paul, sorry... You are comparing apples and oranges here..

the point is, theyre not friends. .. :1orglaugh

Spoilsport, I was enjoying laughing at him and his Alexa skillz.

Can't we all just get along :)

Some more interesting stats.

http://paulmarkham.com/temp/trafficstats1.jpg

http://paulmarkham.com/temp/trafficstats2.jpg

And it doesn't take a genius to see where the customers are going.
No industry can withstand traffic loss like that for long.

http://paulmarkham.com/temp/trafficstats3.jpg

But I'm wrong because I'm too old. :1orglaugh

I don't know about being harder, but it's certainly more expensive

The print industry accepted digital from about 2002. They preferred slides, but would take Digital. From 2005 it all went digital.

Getting the exposure right was a little harder on film than digital, which was why we used light meters. The most important thing with light was reflected light, if the light bounced back into the lens it made the pictures look diffused and wouldn't print properly.

The main reason that few came into this market was bad business or unable. Unable to get the framing, poses and the looks right.

It's not just the sofa, it's the room it's in.

Who cares? The people at the shops. :winkwink:

You wouldn't of bought those companies for $110 million 15 years ago. Which was what I said. As for what Adult.com and the rest of Lensman empire was sold for. Well that's a reflection.

I have no doubt Manwin is the biggest now. But never the biggest ever. And the Adult Internet isn't making anything like the money the other avenues of porn made. I doubt if you know who some of those companies are, so how can you tell?

Go search the Internet first. And do some calculations. Remember offline porn would of sold more than online porn because it was more stable. As everyone says, the Internet moves fast and can change in a matter of months. People don't pay for future earnings with online business like they do offline business. It's to hazardous.

wnu.com

http://paulmarkham.com/temp/trafficstats4.jpg

They have grown, just not enough to take up the loss from CCBILL.

Also I missed some of the other big European porn houses.

Brazzers traffic has dropped from 0.25% to 0.15% in 2 y3ears. Not a good indication.

And neither is the growth in Tube traffic.

Remember what I said in a few years time. Ignore it today at your peril.

Paul,

there are only very few companies that have public information available from "back in the day"... one of them is Private. Their 1997 numbers were not good at all. And they never really got much higher than that.

I know the other companies you mentioned. Playboy, yes, revenue wise very big... employee wise very big, but profit margin was always horrible.

Penthouse, went bankrupt in what, 2003? And not because of online porn... Also, New York Times quoted Guccione in saying the company grossed 4 billion USD in its lifespan... on avg that would be 133m per year. Net income half a billion USD, avg a year only 17m! Again, not big.

Vivid, Forbes Mag estimates Vivid's revenue a year at 100m USD. Although I do not believe this ever was the case, it again is not horribly high. I am again sure their net income margin was horrible even if this is true.

Northern & Shell, sadly not much public info, but the sale of their adult mags did not stir much, so could not have been so big.

Magna (Swank), very little info sadly, and I know little about their history, so...

Score Group... no idea in terms of size, lots of content though...,would love to buy them, so if anyone is reading this, talk to me! :)

David Sullivan and David Gold as far as I know owned Goldstar, so you listed Sullivan and Goldstar seperately as if its two things.. but I might be wrong here of course... again, very little info, considering David Gold sold a charter airline for just 4.4m pounds a few years ago, his porn stuff must have not really made him that much money <G>

Paul Raymond Publications was 19m profit in 1999 according to the guardian. The guardian also claims in 2001 it released 8 of the top 10 mags in UK, which would hint towards those other companies like Goldstar for example making less than Paul Raymond...

So all in all, I am not finding anything huge as you keep claiming... that is much bigger than anything online....

LFP is the only one I am horribly unsure about... but MOST of those, I would have bought for 110m easily (I did not buy Mansef for 110m USD btw). 110m would be way too much for most actually in my opinion.

BTW, regarding your wisdom about alexa stats.... http://siteanalytics.compete.com/pornhub.com+tube8.com/

Also, brazzers.com might be dropping in traffic, good thing we have more than one site and good thing we learn more about conversion every day :)

Stupid me, should have checked wikipedia for LFP....

Estimated 135m revenue in 1998. Although it also said hustler mag's circulation was very high in the 1970s, but even then.. revenue would not have been that much higher, and we all know how bad margins magazines have in general.

20m profit from casino, being the biggest sector in terms of profit, in 2007...

markham, are those your ECG graphs? couldnt resist

Via the Wiki, In 2001 .. Larry Flynt stated his net worth as $400 million.

That's of course all of his goodies combined and a life long business adventure.

Paul:
"And the Adult Internet isn't making anything like the money the other avenues of porn made."

Paul, you precious thing. Your extreme ignorance is almost endearing.

-The internet is growing. Every year more people in more countries get internet access.
-Porn is one of the biggest genres of entertainment media consumed on the internet.
-More and more people each year are getting credit cards and/or the ability to make financial transactions online.

You are acting like a retarded person by not acknowledging these simple, obvious facts.
Perhaps you are an Idiot Savant? Dustin Hoffman's "Raymond"?

Have you shot Fabian's scene yet? What's the hold up?
Fabian, has Paul signed his contract and if so, is "the money in motion" ???

Paul, you IDIOT, I'm just going to post your quote again for effect (or is it spelled 'affect' in this usage? I don't feel like looking it up, so forgive me for the potential typo, ChristianXXX!!!):

"And the Adult Internet isn't making anything like the money the other avenues of porn made."
...Paul, all signs point to internet = the future. Remember back in the 90's when the rest of us realized that?

I have not provided Paul with the script or content yet, we are looking which one is best for him right now...
I hope to know today.
I will post the script here.

TheDoc, you are right, missed that one.. 400m networth, with him owning most of hustler, does not make hustler worth a whole lot of money <G>

Hahaha, this is awesome, I can't wait...

Paul, this is a big moment in your life! how will you handle it???

He will read the script and then make an excuse about not being willing to do it.

There is no way at all he is going to come out of Pretend Retirement (tm) for only 3 grand and no way he would take money from his arch enemy.

What he can do, better than anyone here, is make you all think he is serious and get a dull thread to 6 pages.

Genius. Marketing genius.

Is Fabian Paul's Arch Enemy? Paul, confirm or deny? I would assume Fabian wouldn't be your enemy, probably more the old fooze doodz owners are/were your enemies, right Paul?

Paul, do you think Fabian is cleaning up Brazers' act???
Paul, is Fabian your arch enemy?

Hahaha, this thread is the SHIZNIT!

Anyway, how many lavatories does Manwin have?

Over 9,000 fo' sho'

Northern & Shell was a swerve ball, I knew you would say something stupid without doing the research so through it in. The porn mags were a small part, now do a search on Richard Desmond.

Swank I do know about and it was a big company with many high selling mags. Still in the game with paysites. Had an owner with a name that was the same as some New York Mafia crime bosses.

Very successful company with more than magazines. do some more research.

Do some more research, they were linked on some things and not on others. both had separate businesses. Do more research before you make a statement.

That would of been $30 million profit then. Take inflation, factor in online and you can see why 3 years profit would of been a good price.

You're ignoring something.

Shows a trend.

Want to list them so we can see there traffic growth or decline?

WHAT THE FUCK PAUL?!?

You quote like six other posts, yet you completely ignore my valid, concise, easy-to-understand questions directed specifically to you, Paul. Then you have the nerve to write, "You're ignoring something" in response to one of the quotes.
Respond to my questions that I posted before:
"Is Fabian Paul's Arch Enemy? Paul, confirm or deny? I would assume Fabian wouldn't be your enemy, probably more the old fooze doodz owners are/were your enemies, right Paul?

Paul, do you think Fabian is cleaning up Brazers' act???
Paul, is Fabian your arch enemy?"

No yours is or you ignore the real figures.

All the figures Fabian quoted are for MANUFACTURERS or/and WHOLESALERS. Now think RETAIL. If PRO made $30 mill profit it was from advertising, the mags were more or less given away to the distributer/wholesalers who would of been W.H. Smiths and Menzies back then. Here's a clue number of adult mags published world wide x numbers of each title sold x price = AWESOME money.

Over and over again those who think the Adult Internet is the biggest thing in porn quote one end of the business. Ignoring retail. Yet include retail in the Internet calculations.

Think of the number of video titles produced in the US in a good year X the number of each title sold in a good year x the retail price. And that's just the US. Add EU, Asia, S. America, AU I don;t think Africa was ever a good market so ignore that. And even pirated in those days had to be bought. Unless you had a friend with 10 VHS player/recorders giving out free copies. LOL

It's growing in fringe markets and shrinking in it's main market. The new markets are often places we have problems billing and don't have the living standard.

Yes porn is a big entertainment media. But as the Alexa stats show its a free entertainment area for most. Including the emerging markets.

Which is why mainstream online is growing, so why are so many jumping ship and so many sites showing less traffic in the online porn world? Unless it's a free site. The ability to pay has nothing to do with the willingness to pay.

At last a personal attack.

You're making assumptions based on what you see and not looking at the larger picture. Like Fabian you ignore the biggest money making part of the porn industry. The retail market. EVERY single paysite, Dating Site, Cam Site is a RETAIL company as well as production and publishing. Take out their sales to the general public and you have nothing. So you have to include the sales to the general public for the other sides of porn.

If you include online cams, you have to include offline sexline phones. 1 is just the new version of a 1-1 sex experience. Dating there is no offline equivalent as in those days we went out to meet girls or guys. Also a lot of Dating sites are a con. AFF stats are in free fall!!!!

I realised it and opened up selling online. Didn't see it replacing my offline porn income and for most decent shooters it never did. Unless they opened their own sites.

All signs point to falling traffic to paysites and rising traffic to free sites.

You could post some proof of the signs that more people are paying for porn. Because reading all the boards the signs are all the opposite.

I have no idea. I'm a registered invalid as I'm not capable of much physical exertion. I tire very easily, need to sleep a lot. Cough a lot and often my throat backs up with phlegm produced in my stomach and intestines, that needs to be expelled. Usually by coughing it down. Also because of the loss of my saliva glands I need to constantly sip water and this means many trips to the toilet.

This is all due to the massive radiation treatment I had, which swelled my throat and made me unable to eat solids for over a year. Until recently was feeding myself by squirting prescribed liquid food into my stomach, direct via a tube into my stomach. All this has been documented and I've talked about it on here and even posted a picture.

http://paulmarkham.com/temp/food1.jpg

http://paulmarkham.com/temp/food2.jpg

Anyone who thinks physical capabilities is a sign of knowledge is a moron or prejudiced against people with a disability.

Personally I think I will shoot it from a sofa. I'm fine on the sofa. :1orglaugh

That's his standard MO. You make a clear point, ask a simple questions, he ignores it and throws up smoke screens and straw men.

Are you new here? ;)

He doesn't want to debate anything. He doesn't want to shoot for brazzers.

He *needs* to sell 19 HD videos for 150 bucks.

So posts nonsense in order to wind up people like you and get his sig viewed.

It's such a shame that after so long in the industry he has to resort to being a sig whore to make 100 bucks here and there, but, when you have no credit cards, bank accounts and have to beg for money on gfy, it speaks volumes about ones finances, doesn't it?

You should really feel sorry for him.

He is like a vietnam vet, dribbling in a wheelchair, shouting at a trash can and all you can do is mock the poor, fake-retired fellow.

Show some fucking compassion man. Maybe set up a donation fund for him?

Why not take his money?

If he's willing to give $3,000 to a person who has publicly stated many times he's retired and physically impaired I'm stupid not to take it.

Not trying to get out of it sweetheart. I want his money.

Not marketing genius lie this.

Taking a woman's picture a few months after a near fatal car crash. Which resulted in her needing to have her head shaved. And she was in the process of regrowing the hair and pasting it onto another picture. Then calling her a Man wife and a bought wife.

http://paulmarkham.com/temp/damian7.jpg

I think that shows your level of marketing skills, not even good enough to know your B&B avatar would come back to bite you in the ass.

I have no idea if Fabian is my arch enemy. And frankly don't care. Do I like him? Don't really have much of an opinion much on him. His business practices of using a loop hole in the DMCA law to make money isn't something I like.

When he bans all the illegal uploaders and removes all the non licensed material off Pornhub and stops advertising on sites which use the same loop hole in DMCA I will commend him on cleaning up Manwin's act.

Do you know what part of David Sullivan and David Gold porn businesses made them the most money? You must have a clue being in the UK and in porn.

Interesting Paul.

I am genuinely interested to see the scene you turn in to Brazzers.
Fabian, will the scene (or at least the trailer) be posted here after he shoots it? It's 4:29 AM in LA and the idea that you might post the script for Paul's scene here is the only thing keeping me awake... should I push through until dawn, or should I pass out now and enjoy it when I wake up?

PAUL, If you physically can't shoot it, hire a shooter, and be the "director" - sound familiar? you can do that from your director's chair. Get one of those huge megaphones they use on mainstream movies and yell out your directions to the shooter and crew and talent.
HAHAHA.
Paul, this would be an epic event (and thus this would be a truly classic thread) if you actually turn in a scene that is good enough to get you more work from Fabian. That would be AMAZING and UNBELIEVABLE.
Paul, do you think you can do it????

BTW, I saw earlier references to BTS. Paul, I'll come shoot your whole BTS for this for free. If someone else is already doing the BTS, I'll come do 2nd BTS camera for free...

Where we shootin??

but in the meantime you're happy to take his money.

morals eh, who needs 'em?

I think the idea was to see what I could shoot. In fact some wanted proof I shot it. But yes that's an option. hire a shooter and direct it.

It won't please you, Damian, Fabian and loads of other trolls. But $3,000 from someone who uses other peoples content to make money seems to be fine. Getting a little back for the videos of mine he's had on his site and others he advertises on.

I think you should donate the money* to an anti-piracy coalition.









*When I say money, I am pretending, just for a second, that Markham isn't going to back out of this at the last minute.

wow if Fabian sends you money after that statement he is as big an idiot as you.

he wouldn't lose face by canceling this job. dont throw good money after bad.

Where do you think David Sullivan and David Gold made the most money in porn?

And can you explain your avatar on B&B to us please?

Making some money from someone whose business model is making money from shooters without their permission or even giving them something back?

A no brainer.

He will use this as his Get Out of Jail Free card at his peril.

He was the idiot to take up my gauntlet. He lost face the moment he offered an invalid the chance to make $3,000 IMO. Especially one he spends all his time arguing with.

Anyone who thinks my physical abilities is an indication of my knowledge is also an idiot. What a useless pointless exercise.

My win situation is $3,000 and seeing trolls call his praise.

So you'll be putting the money 'stolen' from your colleagues and peers into your back pocket and are boasting like that is A Good Thing?

Don't really get that. Isn't it rubbing everyone's noses in it?

No way will I back out. Got nothing to lose. I know none of the trolls will like it. Don't care if you do. Don't think it will reflect my knowledge because of my physical condition, so why not?

I'm making some money back TO ME & EVA for the pirated movies on Tubes and other places.

WTF are you drinking bringing in other people??????????????

Waiting for an explanation about your B&B logo. Or are you ignoring that or pretending not to see it????????????? :1orglaugh

I'm going for a sit down and nap. :thumbsup

It's a shame you have to suck the cock of piracy in public Paul.

at his peril. thats funny. i'm sure he really cares about some has-been photographer.

you've stated that you plan to just take his money and not deliver because you dont believe in his business practices. now you say he 'lost face' by offering you work. this thread is the nail that will close your coffin in this industry.

how many HD videos did you sell today? $3k worth?

Oh sorry, you were bleating on about not understanding my avatar on another forum? It's simple.

It's a pic of your manwife's face photoshopped onto an action man doll in order to annoy you.

Hope that clears it up for you. I can see why you got confused.

"But...it's my wife's face! On a doll's body! HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE???!@@??!!!111oneoneone"

I think it'd be better if you were the producer/director overseeing the project, but Fabian, it's your $, does Paul have to be the actual cameraman?

If no, Paul, you should hire not just a shooter, but a whole crew of colorful characters/ your closest friends! I hope they are all as clown-like as you! That would make the scene and the accompanying BTS the stuff of legend.

You still haven't responded to my offer of free BTS, Paul. I will pay for my own room and board. I am not comfortable with the idea of staying at your place. I will bring my own BTS camera.

All I ask is a $15 per diem. Out of the $3000, you should certainly be able to afford that, no? This is only a 1-day shoot, or is this going to be multiple days??

HA!!!!!!

I'm serious Paul.

Fabian, can I have co-rights to the BTS footage I shoot for a documentary on the industry?

Paul, I assume you're shooting this somewhere in Europe? Which country?

I bet the script doesn't have enough toilets in.