And guess how much money they lost through the investment scandals that the Republicans help setup? Oh and why doesn't the Republicans go after those that stole the money from bad investment advice, funds, gov/state backed/forced programs that failed and lost everything? Why when it was a surplus did they find the need to screw with money that wasn't theirs?

Why do the people have to suffer for our politicians political blunders and corporate greed?

I think we should tax the living hell out of the elite class to pay back everyone, everything, ect for all the damage they've created. Why in hell would the lower, middle or wealthy class pay for something they never created, started, help, wanted, ect?

It's funny... just the idea you twist this back to the people shows how little you know about the situation, how brainwashed you are about the situation, how much you ignore the real issues just to argue that it's dem/left or rep/right.

You should be backing these people like mad and screaming the state/fed and corps to stop screwing US ALL OVER - Because it's damn sure NOT THE PEOPLE.....

I am actually fighting this one from the LEFT. I keep quoting FDR, was he a tea bagger?

So, it is ok to leave 100s of billions in unfunded liabilities to the poor and middle class? We both agree that the rich wont get hurt by all this, yet you keep insisting on taxing and adding to the debt anyway. That does not make any sense.

The people are the ones who will have to pay for this, while the unions only pay 0.5% of their own pensions. Who are the greedy ones?

Just because FDR is left, doesn't mean I agree with him....In many cases, he is correct... but not always.

It was funded - it was perfectly fine, it was a surplus until it was spent on bad investments and force investments from the State, that people had no choice over. Which was then profited on, and money used to fund other State projects rather than add to the pension, just in case crazy shit like today happens.

So that's actually wtf happened.. greedy bastards spent our damn tax dollars and forced bad investments, that sucked the State dry.. and now you want to punish the exact people that didn't create this problem.

Brilliant... How about, we go get the damn money back from the people that created the mess?

We could tax the living crap out of the elite class and super corporations, without question. And it does not add to the debt more, it collects a hellish amount of money and you fine them when they try to leave the State.

And without question, giving them more tax cuts, when they already have trillions of dollars, isn't going to spark job growth - but it will increase profits while WE continue to pay the damn bills. Bills that are now being transfered to the people, meaning - it will cost US more!

What you're supporting now, is the people losing the ability to stop getting fucked over.... so basically, they can get fucked over even more, have no power to do anything about it, meaning me and you and our kids will end up paying the bill, no mater what....

Why? Because the people in power aren't fixing the problem by taking out union powers and reducing these peoples pay, this only increases the power/money the Fed/State has. This is nothing more than a way for the elite to profit from mine and your tax dollars, even more - that's it... end of story.

Stop supporting this stupidity..

The average teacher in Madison earns between 70-80k. They contribute little to nothing for their healthcare coverage or retirement. The average private citizen pays 25%.
They can retire after 30 years of teaching with a full pension. Consider,the average teacher finishes school at age 23. By 53 they retire with pension and ssn. Private citizen retirement is 62 with 75%ssn..65 for the full amount.

For every teacher actually teaching in Madison there are 2 being paid that are retired. As the average life span continues to increase this will only get worse. Business has gone to China. The property taxes are up dramatically.

What solution do you offer?

Yooooooooooooo!

The average Wisconsin teacher salary in 2009-2010 was $52,644.... they start as low as $25k.

Every dollar they make is our tax dollars, so if it costs 25% then we need to do something about that as citizens, don't we?

Teachers are a core backbone of our Country, I think of them as important as our Military personal and should be treated with equal respect for what they do for our Nation.

The State still has a ton of corporations doing business, how about they cut capital gains tax on money brought in that is directly used to create jobs? Say cut it to 2% or nothing? That always sparks huge growth, huge tax revenue collection, and it actually creates jobs and stops them from going overseas.

Then tax the bastards correctly rather than letting super corps that make trillions get away with paying nothing and you damn sure, do not give them MORE tax cuts so they pay less. When the use our services, our people, everything and leave the State nothing but scraps - that's completely pathetic.

Then, start forcing the cost of insurance/medical costs, all around, ground it once and for all rather than pandering to the Insurance companies, making our tax dollars pay them even more money..

Every State in trouble has fallen to this crap in some twisted way... and every single one of the States could correct it by simply not letting the Corporations bend them over anymore. Oh and if they would stop pretending that tax cuts create jobs, that would help too...

You live in a dream world. Come back to reality for a second. Taxing the hell out of the rich will NEVER happen. So what you are imposing is that the unions are getting "fucked" over because they are paying 0.5% of their pension while the rest is picked up by the lower and middle class? :1orglaugh Come back to reality man.

Then pensions have NEVER been funded.

greedy? that was the negotiated amount.

so because they went through the motions, they no longer be able to negotiate?

when this blows up in everyones faces down there, will we be taking away the republicans ability to get involved in the government?

The elite have been taxed 98% before, it could happen again if the rest of the classes would start yelling for it.

The union money is our tax dollars either way... paying .5 or all of it, is still our tax dollars, either way. Passing the cost onto the people, is still our tax dollars paying for it. Either way, our tax dollars pay 100% of the cost, directly or indirectly with every single employee of the State or Fed.

All you're doing... is forcing the money into the peoples hands which will have to pay a higher rate for everything to the corporations. Which is our tax dollars, paying more, directly to the super corps, which they are pushing for this so they have more power and you have less.

Yes, the pension funds used to be in positive cash flow... it's only in the last 10 years they started to get hammered.

You are wrong. If they pay more into their own pension the less tax money that is spent on pensions. The pensions plan is a ponzi scheme kept afloat by the tax payer. You make the current investors pay more, the less tax money you need to pay for it. It is pretty simple math.

Why do you want the tax payer to be the only one paying for the pension? You are letting 5% of the population directly hinder the other 95%.

A higher rate for everything to the corporations?

What I stated is not wrong, just like what you stated isn't wrong.

But what you're ignoring is you/me our taxes pay these people, either way. And if those people pay all or none of the pension, it's no different than the union or your tax dollars doing it directly.

It's still your tax dollars, paying 100% of it all, all the time, no mater what direction the money takes.

Every State worker has a massive insurance policy on them, once they die the State and Corps collect on those insurance policies, paying back everything that was ever paid to them. The problem is, that money doesn't go back into the pension fund, it goes to build other projects, just like profits made on pension accounts for the State.

The States are in debt because THEY badly managed OUR tax dollars. Changing this, will not correct the current problem we are having. The States will still continue to badly manage things and later will come ask the people to give up even more... and one day, they'll ask you to give your SS after you've paid into it.

$52k is the average salary. The *fringe benefit* package averages $35k. The real cost is in the $70-80k range for teachers in Wisconsin. This is for a 9 month a year position.which in the private sector is considered part time.

The fact remains. Public workers retire at to young of an age. There are to many of them drawing from a system that can not sustain it.

You talk about raising capital gains tax. You obviously don't run a company. The state of WI does not offer any deals to corporations on taxable income. A city can defer property taxes for a period of time to entice a business to build in their community. There are various low interest loans available to build factories with. Those are loans. If you are a minority you can qualify for a few grants. Those are rare.

The only solution for the state is to reduce spending on every level. Raising taxes in a state that historically is one of the highest taxed states in the US will not bring business our way. In the last 8 years WI has lost 6 major corporations to states with lower taxes and wages.

as much as i like the ideals behind tea party movement, unfortunately its been hijacked by those big corporate interests which want less regulation and lower taxes for the rich. in the end tea party will help move wall street's liabilities on to the backs of average americans... as if that's not already being done enough...

No... I said cut capital gains tax to nothing, if they invest the money. History has already proven this works. Then you can stop giving retarded tax breaks at the city/state, property, ect level and the state actually collect the money from the services the corps are using.

I don't run a company in WI, that is correct.. the companies I do have are the b.s. types of companies we all have here. None of which reach the level of business that would ever quality for a capital gains tax break, none of us have the billions it takes to make it a factor - none of us are in that league.

Every State would instantly profit simply by standing up to Insurance companies, then stopping the crazy ass bleeding of tax dollars to stupid projects that every city/state has, blowing tax dollars on useless projects rather than the last 30 years rebuilding the infrastructure of our Cities, Communities and Transportation.

Then stopping States from privately investing in Corporations just to show massive favoritism to that Corporation and allow them to bully the free market in those states, forcing those Companies that did hire people to leave.

Oh yeah... I can keep going for hours on the damage State leaders have caused the people of this Country. And it sickens me to hear another Americans blaming Americans - when no working american, ever, created the problem we have today - our leaders did by letting corporations suck us all dry.

The biggest business in our Industry, our entire Industry added together, doesn't play at this level, at any point. The elite class are so far past the super wealthy in our nation, it's not even funny. All of us, from Bill Gates down are nothing more than working class, broke bitches to these people.

And you're about to feed them a shit ton more of our tax dollars.

I find it bizarre that people in this thread still buy into that Marxist crap about taxing "elites" 98% because they are somehow to blame for all our problems. Ever time this kind of socialism has been tried it has merely succeeded in making everyone, even the middle class, poorer. It always fails for reasons that would require pages of text to go into. I can't believe there are still people that cling to that kind of failed thinking. Could I suggest that you read Ludwig Von Meses and Adam Smith?

i think you mean made.. that generic piece of shit program you have is a total joke.

A form of Socialism in Canada is kicking our ass right now.

Taxing the elite's, is not socialism, nobody is saying return the wealth they have to the people directly. Socialism would be taking the they money to pay for say... the poor's gas bill or welfare, something like that.. That's not what I'm suggesting - that's not fair or balanced on either side.

Right now, it's not balanced, it's not fair, and Right Now - It's reverse socialism where you are paying them through your taxes and interest and moving your own money... and they aren't paying into anything... an elite doesn't have to start a business to make billions in profits, they don't have to hire anyone, or do business with China or anyone or anything other than Money! All to make billions and trillions in profits, off the Citizens money flow!

It can be fixed... and it would start with the citizens at the State and Local level starting to get serious about what the real problem is in our Country, what is really sucking us all dry.. Greed!

States and Cities investing in crops, money markets, ect with our tax dollars, is crazy bad all around. Then not returning the profits back into the pool but spent on stupid projects. Corps getting more tax breaks after not paying taxes, after profiting billions/trillions across the Country and not hiring anyone but they are rolling the money offshore to show a loss here, to pay no taxes. Screw that...

If we start cutting them off at the local/state level with our tax dollars, that will put more money back into the flow for the citizens. Right now, the money is going up and out.... if it doesn't stay moving, we take the damage locally - just like we are.

This isn't about socialism... our system is being exploited to death, at every corner, angle, degree, ect from the super elite and super corporations, they are funding the damn fight to take away the union power. They already profit billions/trillions and this will do nothing but allow them to profit more ..... while YOU/ME/Citziens pay the same damn amount, to the teachers/police, ect - and our same tax dollars paying the same shit as it was - while they pay even less.

That... is not fair, balanced, and I'm not even sure how the hell it's legal - we're being sucked dry here, and it's this is probably the largest power slap the Country has seen in decades.

we refer it to capitalism-socialism, no need to label us with those... labels..

the rich pay for almost everything already. its long past time for the middle class and poor to chip in. Even though its barely more than symbolic

cost of doing business, no?

What's funny is, if you added up everything you've ever earned in your life from corp to personal, stacked it all together in one year, you still aren't part of any class but the working class that year.

The Elite class does not pay the top %, the wealthy/rich classes do. You, pretending to be rich, still pays the elite class, every day of your life, in every business transaction you do.

No reason to pretend you're anything but a working slave - when you are... your money, just like mine, goes straight up and out, to a much wealthier class than any of us here will ever reach.

I understand that thats how it seems from the bottom rung and I'm sorry you'll never move up from there because if you did, you wouldn't be bitter at those with more than you.
I applaud those who've found a way to make more than me. If you could manage to make a little money, the size of the bitter chip on your shoulder would shrink.

that, however, has nothing to do with the fact that the rich pay for everything already.

Son, the entire Industry you work in, even if you produced every bit of the 12-14 billion dollars, still wouldn't put you in the elite class, chump.

The wealthy, rich, and down the chain - that's who pays the taxes - THE WORKING PEOPLE.. And your taxes, pays the elite class, directly. So every bit of work you do, every bit of wealth you produce, all business, the minute you get paid - part of it pays them - and they pay 0% tax on that, and they produced nothing for it...

It's funny though, watching you pretend to be something you don't even understand.

Well say what you want, now California is even going to make some changes, like the new hires for the state will be going to a 401k style of retirement, instead of a unfunded retirement that pays them 95% of what they made, when they retire with Social Security, they get a pay raise.

Remember that when you get a $300 fix it ticket for a burnt out brake light or you need to speak Spanish to communicate with the cashier at Taco Bell, or you hear about how the drop out rate of California Schools is over 22% or you have to wait for 3 hours at the DMV.

That's a much better idea than killing what people had built lives on. At least the new people will start with a new mind set.

But Cali isn't broke from that, and Cali could be wealthy as piss if they were not forced to sell natural resources cheaper than they're forced to buy them for, for like the last 30 years. Which is Corporations controlling your natural resources, money flow, getting tax breaks to sell the crap to themselves in other states, and so on...

please, silly little boy. money earned is taxed. Money invested in some cases is not.
If the elite "earn" they're taxed. If they have tax free investments, they aren't. The rest of your childish paragraph is just bottom rung idiocy.


I never understood the envy of some bottom rungers. Even back when I made the peanuts you now make I knew that someone else's money was theirs, not mine. I wasn't entitled to it, I wasn't envious of it.

you, however, are cut from a much more basic cloth

Wow, aren't you an uneducated fool that just likes to open your mouth and spew trash.

The elite class don't take a paycheck, draw an income, or 'earn' a dime. I had no idea you were this stupid to how the truly wealthy make money... it really shows, how little business education you have. They are way past the same rules, you're 'forced' to play in.

Envy of what? Stealing my tax dollars, not paying into the system, making money without producing or hiring anyone, robbing the system dry, spending our tax dollars without giving back? I should be envy of ceo's that can spend hundreds of billions in profits during peak times, get bailouts of hundreds of billions when they screw up, spend hundreds of billions not creating jobs or anything, and never pay a dime in tax on all that money, even if it earned money, it's tax free...... Yeah buddy, none of us here are playing at this level - and they aren't earning anything like we do.

No, stain... I'm not envy of what actually is killing our Country.

hahaha, someone take the tinfoil away from this kid.:1orglaugh

Truly uneducated.... right now States take your tax dollars, invest in Corporations directly, fight to get those corps more power into your State, to push out other Corps, the State then earns money from this and moves that money to State projects that feed the same Corporations that also get massive tax breaks to not pay any Taxes.

Basically, they screw the free market over because of greed and corporate influence.... but hey, watching you pretend you have a clue and call us kids and act like you have money, is actually more entertaining than learning the truth about anything.

hahahahaha

It's hard to decide which source of information is biased. I suppose if you pay someone money, he/she will say everything just to please you. Although, sometimes they say the opposite. It's hard to find truthful sources of information for your life. The best source could be a close relative or a close friend.

You can't be this stupid? It's earned through Corporate incentives, not a paycheck, not as income, it never adds to the very little, if any.. taxable income they do earn.

Truly do we really have to continue to read your stupidity anymore?

ahahahahaha!
fuck, I can't express my laughter enough.

dear ass hat, is this your secret elite?
holy christ if only you had a friend.......they'd tell you to stop typing. you're embarrassing yourself.

dear shit for brains. your example has a corporation and a state. which one is the elite person?:1orglaugh


here's a clue, clueless...........when the money leaves the corp and goes into someone's pocket, it gets taxed.


dopey 1040EZ little boy

We have more illegal aliens than anyone else, we pay state workers more than anyone else, Our schools are a complete mess, our highways need help and the cost of having a company here has driven out a lot of companies!!!

I live in the most northern section of California and the plan around here is to separate the state in 3 sections, they want to call this the state of Jefferson

Really, you're too stupid to understand people run Corporations and the State?

you know, one of those elite fuckers was in line in front of me at the grocery store the other day. He bought beer with his elitist corporate incentives.:1orglaugh

no, you're too stupid to understand that when those people are paid, its taxed.

really, you're stupidity is embarrassing.
stop typing.

Illegals produce money and pay taxes... I know you hate it, but it's true. Your schools suck because of the Fed, it sucks for pretty much all of us - but Obama has put together a plan that is actually working... so maybe it will filter your way in a few years.

Yes, one of my biggest bitches is the tax dollars not being spent on infrastructure. And I don't mean more pretty parks for fags to walk dogs in.

Hehe, Jefferson.. Well maybe that wont be so bad if you're taxes drop too.

I wasn't aware he bought the beer with your tax dollars... see, you're simply are too stupid to even understand what's going on at the most basic level.

haha thats funny. The richest pay less as a percentage than they did 30 yrs ago and the poor pay more. The richests incomes have increased +200% over 30 yrs and the poors have remained nearly identical.. only +10%.

Stop pretending anyone above a 50 IQ buys the crap math.