I think it's a good sign that you don't talk to yourself.

Not many. A couple of guys pretending to be media.
Didn't really notice much more.

Yawn. ...

Am I reading this right when you say ICM put pressure on CCbill to NOT have Tom speak or moderate at the Phoenix Forum?

Can I get a WTF? :helpme


Most excellent. Had I known that, I would have written something a lot more colorful. However, this is one of those times where I take no pride in being right (for once). :upsidedow

This whole thing has stunk from the beginning. I don't think anyone can dispute that. And I simply don't trust anyone on this one, regardless of who they are associated with or what they *claim* their intentions are. There is too much potential money at stake.

Fire that bay boy up LAJ! Someone put it on Youtube or something.

Well it's either one way or the other, not both. If you don't go to shows to chit chat with the "hangers on" AND you didn't really notice much rabble... then that would mean you would pretty much be chatting with nearly everyone there. Ironically though, the 3 or 4 times I actually saw you at the show, you were either by yourself or chatting to the same couple of people every time.

Whatever though I'm arguing logic here on GFY lol... Like I said in the Frenemies panel... it's worth the time if the people actually affect your bottom line.

Do you think they will change it every year or two?

We're in porn and they will fuck us anyway they want. And we have to cope with it.

We have no influence, no voice and no collective body to represent us. That's the way we wanted it. That's the way it is.

We sent traffic to scammers and still do, we put up sites that were crap and we even put up sites that if they were sold offline would get people jailed.

The more money they squeeze out, the more the weak will fall away and the more customers the strong will pick up.

This is a done deal, crying over spilt milk isn't going to make any difference.

ICANN have a monopoly on this, they're not listening and they don't care.

They make the rules. If you want it changed organise a lobby group. Until then. their game, their rules.

Just like every other business.
It's never going to be, your game, your rules.

Ok, I'll dumb it down for you.
I didn't speak to you or Conner because you're true hangers on in the business. You've never run a program, never done anything of any significance. The two of you wasted about a 1/2 hour with your idiot questions during the panel.

As for seeing me alone or with the same people........sure kid.
:1orglaugh

Love your newfound presence here on GFY as ynot continues to fail and it's board grinds to a halt.
:thumbsup

You got that right.

That is why it is so frustrating, because you know it's all falling on deaf ears.

So what do you do. Move on or keep shouting?

Personally I think it will cull a lot in the business. Leaving more for the rest.

Have to admit I'm not looking at having to work another 20 years like some. But even if I were I wouldn't be planning on working in the porn business for the next 20 years.

Anyone who thought he had more than a few years left is either one of the very top guys or foolish.

why do you even post here anymore? you obviously don't care if it dies or not as you got yours already and are an old man.

I always thought it was going to pass and am really not too worried about it. I'm frustrated at the ignorance of the industry and how blind everyone seems to be, but not worried. I don't have plans to be in porn forever so if it ends in 10 years or tomorrow, I'm ok with that. Later would be better than sooner, but it wouldn't be the end of the world for me if I woke up tomorrow and the internet was gone.

LOL so sayeth the man who roofs houses for a living and has been a hanger on to Mojo for his internet career. :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

I've been instrumental in keeping YNOT profitable for the 11 years that I've been there. Sure don't need your approval tho. How's tuna fish bitch doin? :winkwink:

For the record, Connor and I ignored you. :thumbsup

Yawn.

I'm happy to go back and forth here ... more sig spots. You might want to update that 1998 banner of yours though, to get max effect here.

Since you're speaking plainly, let me. Ron you're like the old guy alone in the back of a bar leering at the college girls. Everyone wonders why he's there, but he just sticks around and creeps everyone else out.

I know you think you were once something in this business, but licking the sweat off of Fantasy Man's balls doesn't count. And even if that DID count, it's been a decade. If you had one ounce of ability, I'm guessing we'd have seen it in the way of something noteworthy. The fact that you still think YNOT is a "board" shows your age. I'm sorry to say, all you are known for is trolling GFY now.

Now run along son, and buy your little .XXX domain names. And tell Stuart that I sent you... so he knows there's no hard feelings.

It certainly seems true that we had no voice in the .XXX creation decision.... but at the moment, at least, we DO have a choice whether to buy the things or not.

Hahahaha... I'd say there's no coming back from that, but I'm guessing 12clicks isn't clever enough to stay away. :1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Thanks for the nods, Brad, Conner, and many others. Moderating that session was probably the most challenging one in the 12 years I've been doing them.
I also have a video of the entire thing that I will post up as soon as I get back to boston. But wait! I can't get back to Boston for 2 more days as I am stranded in Phoenix waiting for Southwest to button up the "sun roofs" on ther 737-300 series that I am supposed to be on! LOL

Please send beer and chips. I am at the four points Sheraton waiting to be rebooked.

Colin

P.S. 12clicks and Conner. Please play nice. This sort of hammering is not real helpful to the dot-xxx damage control dialogue.

P.P.S. Love my one quote at the end if the XBiz article. Yes, I worked that session hard to keep it within civilized boundaries, but being a smart ass about taking a shit in times square was sort of classic "me", eh? Heehee

Ummmmm...... Ron...... Used me? LOL
I'll let that one go.

It was a rather odd timeline on this one:

1. Originally, I was slated as moderator, and Diane Duke was on the panel with Ron at CCBill, Jeffrey Douglas from FSC, and Allison Vivas, I was told that ICM (dot xxx) did not want to be on it.

2. Then, they found out Tom Hymes was coming and I offered to defer to his experience and skill as the moderator, and I would now be a panalist.CCBill said okay.

3. THEN, on the first day of the show, ICM decided they wanted to be on it, and to add Chris from Wildline to it. But, also a request to have me moderate it, take Diane off of it, and have Tom be "just a speaker" as they felt he was too biased to moderate. (like I am a Berger choice? The guy that gave testimony at ICANN in San Fran two weeks ago? Yeah. I have the skills to be neutral as a moderator, but to stick Tom on the panel and release him from any neutrality requirements, and stick Diane in the audience with a laptop to check facts and access to a microphone? May have been an odd strategy.

So, anyway, that' how it went down. Gary at CCBill handled this like a real pro and it reall was a great session that took 6 months off od my life moderating!

Colin

Have that video sent to me please and I will get it up proper for the viewing audience volume.

Oh, and note to self:
Typing on an iPad from a hotel on GFY sucks. There is no way to correct typos out of the little text input box, so I am sure that last post made me look lazy and such!

So, I am stranded in Phoenix still. Sheraton four points hotel as said before for at least the next day or two waiting for southwest to close the sun roofs. Beer, chips? A steak and a Ukranian midget tap dancer? Show you care! Send Colin your support to room 412 to show you care. One in 12 French fries will be forwarded to Joan at ASACP.

Colin

p.s. Thank you for stopping typing, Paul.

Connor and jay,
Despite your protestations to the contrary, you're a couple of piss ants in this industry. My employees make more than you and always have.
Ynot is dead thanks to you clowns. You post here because ynot has an audience of pretend employees and that's about it.
The businessmen here think you're a joke.
Please explain once more what business you have again?
Employees are a dime a dozen and employees with big mouthes and no brains certainly don't speak for the intelligent end of our business as Greg D. Aptly pointed out on the panel

Oh dear.
Ron at 12clicks did not heed my plea.
I am stepping away from this one now, but again suggest you take this offline or out of this post. It's just not appropriate here.

Colin

Sorry Colin,
Your post would have held sway on page one.
You were a fantastic moderator and CCBill did an amazing job navigating the political landscape to make that seminar happen.

To portray it any other way is childish and not truthful.

Let's just leave it at that between you and I, Ron.
I'm not a big GFY guy, so if you want to continue the conversation, give me a ring or icq.

Cheers,
Colin

I heard Mojo is the reason 12Clicks has made any amount of money online, Mojo is the brains, 12clicks is just the "front man". Hell, I heard Mojo even got Ronnie started with his own roofing gig.

Blah de blah blah blah.

Your personal assessment of us Ron is completely irrelevant. Not worth arguing with you since I know who supports us, and I've got nothing to prove or explain to you. You have no clue how much money we make, what all of our business entities entail, nor do we feel the need to brag about it much less even talk about it.

And what employees do you speak of when you are an employee yourself? And what businessmen here do you speak of that you now have a voice for?

Ahh, so many questions, so little time and I know you'll just respond with more hollow, and unoriginal insults. But again, sadly, your relevance only exists as a troll on this forum for the most part nowadays. I'll bet that's a bitter pill to swallow and that you wish you could have those black chips back from the tables at the Venetian, eh?

I wish I could have my 30 minutes back since I gave you 29 too many here.

Anyway snowflake, thanks for helping me to rest my case.

Yup that's what I've heard. Man, I wonder if Serge skims these forums anymore. I know he'd have a comment or 10 about this.

I sure wish I was able to see that panel. I can't wait to see it online. I am sure you did awesome Colin.

Mitch

I am always baffled by the way some threads degenerate into insult flinging - and yet I never see fists swinging at shows. I hope no one minds too terribly much if I bring this back on topic?

Lloyd and Tanya were kind enough to film the entire 2+ hours of this panel. It will be up soonish and I'll post the URL when it is so that everyone can watch for themselves and draw their own conclusions.

I can assure anyone questioning that there was indeed a last minute change in the moderation for the panel, as I got to watch some of the resulting whatthefuckery when that particular bit of news came down the pipe late Thursday evening. Colin was brilliant, as per usual, but in a very difficult and demanding role with this topic, and I think his well placed wit took the edge off of the tension in the room, which was palpable throughout.

Some things worth noting:

This was the last session of the forum, held on Saturday at 1pm, and there had to be well over 200 people in attendance.

It was scheduled for 1pm - 2:30pm and was held over until 3:15 by the near unanimous vote of the audience.

With the exception of one attorney, no one in the audience spoke up in favor .xxx.


My own opinion is that .xxx is a bad idea in general and a worse idea in the long run. There are just entirely too many things that we don't know and can't really get answered. Vaughn Liley was caught out on more than one occasion saying something that was disproved by facts readily available on the ICM website. I was surprised to find out that the $60 registration price attached to .xxx domain names is really the wholesale price, and that those names that are not trademarked, or cannot be trademarked but are still great names can potentially be auctioned off for millions of dollars.

This "sponsored" community tried to vote with it's voices and wasn't heard. The only option left is as Connor said - to vote with your wallet.

The ignorance of this side of the industry has been proved over and over again.

I think it really hit me when Acacia tried the patent squeeze and our response to it. Since then our response to all threats has been to only wail. Tubes, Piracy, 2257 and now .xxx.

Do nothing and cry.

Where is this video?

Well said Brad. Colin was great, the seminar was very very informative and the panel did a good job expressing thoughts, questions and views on the subject.

Ha, you guys worry too much... it's just 12clicks, and pissing matches are what he does for a living. You can either fire back, or ignore him. Depending on my mood, I take turns. :1orglaugh At he end of the day, the sparring is fun -- nobody should read any real anger on my side though, I just like picking on the dude. Plus... it is GFY after all, there's kind of a culture here. ;)

When will you be heading to time square to take your shit? :)

You did a great job :)

Key points i found from this topic

1) WHOLESALE price of the domains are $60

2) You can "opt-out" and protect your domain from anyone else getting it by paying $100 .. and if you want it back at some point .. you cant. its gone forever.

3) if you dont pay the $100 opt out and someone else gets your trademark everyones suggestion was well .. its your trademark .. take legal action and get it back .. not everyone has the money to do that

4)"automated monitoring" - this was brought up using the term Spidering - ICM said that they will not spider our sites private areas (ie : members area ) but when challenged from the audience with direct reading from their own bylaws it sates that they will have "automated monitoring" of your whole site .. so icm had no clue what he was talking about and doesnt understanding spidering is automated monitoring

5) icm told us on the panel that they can not overrule the i4 (i could have this backwards ) rulings in regards to regulations with .xxx domains ... and again once read from their laws from the audience he was proven wrong and he had .. nothing to say.

6) they only have two regulations in place so far .. they have until the end of this month to get the rest of them in place that we have to live with

7) all domains by default will have a warning page that THEY create before anyone can go to the .xxx domain name

it was so hard to sit and listen to this and frustrating ... i wish it went longer ;/

wow, so they have the power to 'control' content AND have *their* warning pages as the entry for every single domain...that is huge. how much you want to be they will be making money/have outside links on them? damn..talk about taking it up the ass. it just keeps looking worse and worse for xxx...why someone would support them is beyond me. i can only wonder what other horribly stupid 'regulations' they will put in place that will continue to alienate their customer base.

Honestly i doubt they are creating the rules to fuck us or make money off of it - i think it is just generic rules that they have in place to cover their ass

i dont think they will be making any money off the warning page and with the spidering Vaungh really didnt even have a clue about it and denied it was even real until it was presented to him and when asked if he had a comment about it he said " no "

but to his credit - at the end he did say he was going to get clarification in regards to the terms used

He asked that he wishes we could give them a chance to prove them self - now im one of those guys that really likes to give everyone a chance and trust them so i may be shooting my self in the foot ..but nothing we can do now .. xxx is here and it isnt going to be un-done no matter how much we bitch
so all we can do is just see what happens and see if they stick to their word

This is key... I don't think anything that they said is beyond being changed at this point. Even the prices. They can change pretty much anything. And even after the contract is signed, IFFOR can STILL add new rules for domain holders at just about any time, right away or years later. And yes, even if IFFOR tries to do something we LIKE, ICM Registry can veto it, as was proven during the seminar.

But in terms of "we have to live with" part... again, we don't HAVE to live with it if we don't buy these domains. Unless of course we are somehow compelled to buy them, in which case one of the nightmare scenarios can to be.

Andrea,
Insults from the unaccomplished aren't something to take seriously.
They chirp quite a bit but at the end of the day, one of us has owned and run successful programs for over 12yrs and one of us talks about it.
In this environment you really need to be careful where you get your info from.
The guy doing it or the guy who talks about others doing it.:thumbsup

Well I see .xxx as an attempt to take food out of our mouths and put it into theirs. There is absolutely no need for it, my .com's work perfectly so why would anyone need .xxx? If anything .xxx works for and is catering to those want porn blocked. I can't see myself giving them a chance, they aren't working for my or anyone else's best interest in adult at all. All it takes is one line of code to run *anything* on the entry page of every single .xxx domain in existence (hopefully it won't be many..)

Here's the problem with that though... I think that they HAVE in fact shown a lot already in the many years they have been trying to get this sTLD passed. I'm not going to list all the offenses here, although I'd be happy to speak with you offline if you want. So them saying "give us a chance" to me would be like Charlie Sheen saying "give me a chance with your daughter, a hotel room and a pound of cocaine, I promise not to do anything wacky." There's a history built already.

One of the things that will be interesting to watch though, which I think will speak a lot louder than poor Vaughn could (and it was hard NOT to feel sorry for him, he took such a pounding), will be who ends up on the IFFOR board. I can't imagine those seats will go to anyone BUT people who helped push .XXX through.

The issue with NOT buying the .xxx is if you dont buy your brand / trademark - someone else will .. its just that simple. If that person then decides to create a site that reflects poorly on your brand or something along those lines you are forced to let them do it or take legal action

and if you take legal action you are talking money...Allison stated that they would not be buying .xxx and if they need to they will take action to protect their trademarks. That works for them as they have the money to defend themselfs ... not everyone has that tho

example: Earl miller was in the FRONT row. I was lucky enough to speak with them later that evening over dinner and he has 200+ domains he wants to protect. He is now faced with buying them or letting some one else run over his name and he does not want to spend the money to take legal action .. when .xxx was not needed or requested by this industry... sad a legend such as him has to worry about this

You're back! You do know, by the way, that in addition to running my own sites from 1997 on, I was part of one of the original affiliate programs on the Internet, right? You keep repeating this affiliate program thing again and again over the years... I've never bothered to correct you because I think it's funny, but you are wrong.

That said... here's the thing. I don't think that the VERY many people here on GFY or elsewhere who work in this industry but who haven't run old fashioned affiliate programs are irrelevant. If I dismissed all the people who haven't run affiliate programs, as you have done here repeatedly, that would be a whole lot of people who I'd be insulting and dismissing.

In the spirit of Colin's request, I've included no insults above... and will not address you further in this thread, directly or indirectly. It's fun for me, but... I understand most everyone else could care less about drama. ;)

Yeah, that IS the biggest concern, you're right about that. But a few things here...

I don't know if he was right, but JD suggested that if ICM were to register your mark to someone else, they'd be open to a lawsuit themselves. Would be interesting to hear more for industry attorneys on this idea.

Second, Allison suggested that someone could wait on a lawsuit... so for instance let's say someone registered pinkvisual.xxx ... they could wait until the person had the domain bringing in enough traffic, and THEN sue them (in this case the squatter, not ICM). Let them do all the work, then take it back. That might work for some people. In this case, you'd only incur the costs of the lawsuit if you were getting back a domain that was of value because someone had promoted it, etc.

Correct me?
Please son. You've never run or owned a program.
Being an employee of one over a decade ago isn't something I'd trot out as credentials to be listened to today.
:thumbsup

its legal blackmail. buy the domains or suffer the consequences.

Some heavy trolling going down in here, where is the video?

For those interested in a non-industry prospective on how .XXX might affect the bigger societal picture, here's an interesting opinion piece, although she gets a few facts wrong:

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/an...s-2607402.html

im converting / uploading the closing statements now

i think it will be a few days before they put the whole thing online

I'm uploading 8 separate parts of over 29 gigs of raw video. It needs to be edited into one video, converted and stuck where ever it's final destination will be. Please be patient. :)

I sort of meant that the culture here suggests that shows would be battlegrounds. I try to avoid it. I'm certainly not worried, and would be greatly entertained by a webmaster cage match. :)