true, it certainly isnt for him :1orglaugh:1orglaugh

A more refreshing discussion than the usual drivel on here.

That may or may not be true. However, one thing is always true, stealing from the rich or taxing the rich and giving it to the poor will never make the poor rich, just enslave them to the person giving them the money.

arch enemy song: "kill the poor, die dieeeeeeee"

Heh, if you kill the poor then the least rich will be the poor ones. :)

Everyone can't be rich.

there will be always someone with more money than you and always someone smarter and always someone better looking, is a fact

You don't just meet the top 1% people, you work your way up to the top... it takes many years to build those relationships, that's why most CEOs are in their 50s, they worked hard their whole careers and worked themselves to the top... :2 cents:

the flip side to that is there are always people worse off than you too. I know I feel very fortunate when I reflect on how good I have it :)

Being poor = having little or no capital (goods).
Having little or no capital = living from day to day.
Things that prevent people from building capital:
- personal preference / high time preference (eg: work 35hrs / week + party hard)
- aggression (eg: minimum wage laws that prevent unskilled workers from entering the market. Unions preventing people from entering the market. Patent laws excluding small companies from entering the market. 'Redistribution of wealth'. etc)

I think Austrian Economics is far too advanced a topic to be discussed on GFY. :winkwink:

I believe that was true in the past, but how many CEOs or even top level execs who make the kind of income that would make the rest of us vomit with envy (being colorful there) now did it without coming from a wealthy family? And how many 50 year olds who worked hard and were smart never have made it to the top nor will they? They are called the top 1% for a reason and what I am seeing socially now is financial inbreeding of that top 1%.

CitiBank itself said we are living in a plutocracy, we can accept it, deny it or change it.

Correct.

But EVERYONE has the opportunity to be rich.

It might mean a massive struggle full of sacrifice that many here might find to be unimaginably difficult. It might mean starting out by sifting through garbage to recycle and resell items to save enough money to leave the shit hole someone lives in just to expose themselves to greater opportunities to be taken advantage of in a larger city. There is always room to outwork and out earn those around you. But being born into poverty does not mean being doomed to a life of poverty,,, just as someone in america might have to spend summers shoveling cow shit to pay for an education. Even people born in places like the slums of Dharavi in Mumbai find ways to make money, save money and change their lives. Its extremely sad that you ignore all the greatness in people and all they achieve and summarily dismiss them as being doomed.

You are projecting. Nothing more. You're poor. You're disappointed with how your life has turned out. Don't spit on the hopes and dreams and aspirations of others to comfort yourself as you wallow in self pity and bitterness.

Some of us "merikans" live in a nation that see's countless people every year migrating in from every 3rd world shithole in the world to out work, out produce and ultimately out earn people who were born here. They work, they save, they invest, they open restaurants, they buy and develop etc etc etc... Your ignorant point of view assumes that people are born to a certain station and that without the exact perfect circumstances handed to them by someone else, stand no chance at being wealthy. Thats absolutely not correct and its proven wrong daily in this nation which is why this country continues to be the worlds largest economy.

Using your simple minded, emotionally driven logic... Russia, India, China et al, all have no growing middle and upper class because they were all born to "disadvantage" which is absolutely wrong.

I dream about huge money, but I get almost nothing done. I guess, stamina is extremely important when it comes to becoming rich. I think the only way I can become rich is probably as an Investor. Or founder, and then leaving all the hard work to somebody else.

My opinion is that far too many that wants to get rich, they should just outsource their life to the "go get it- doers".

I mean, tons of people read "get rich" books but they still stay at middle class or poor. Why not admit that you are a bad "Ceo", half lazy sofa potato and instead get other people to work for you.

I personally belive that's the best method, at least if you are like me, a "dreamer" that "easily gets distracted". :)

The correct answer is access to capital. The rich have it and the poor don't. That's why the rich and connected can make money with crappy ideas, while a poor person can have the greatest idea in the world and it would still be a long shot for him to make any money off of it.

The rich get richer by fucking others over. They also get rich by using(risking) others people's money

hardly.

read:


fyi, theres more and they all say the same thing
http://www.google.com/search?q=worki...ient=firefox-a

agreed :thumbsup

work hard at working smart! whoops, n/m, that won't work, according to op1 :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

So are you poor or did you fuck people over :Oh crap

:1orglaugh

but seriously, there are more than two states of financial being, rich and poor being the extremes... but you know that already :)

not for long, middle class should be wiped out soon, if it all goes according to plans :)

How are you defining the class system?

Wrong...
Citing a few cases of difference does not effect the truth.
A Vast majority of those with money make money, most with no money make no money. Thats just how it is.

Reinvestment in the new economy is being funded by the government while all the hedgefund winners from the collapse are sitting on it because they have no idea what to do with exception of maybe a few.

Wall Street bankers are paying themselves all time high's in bonus and cash yet none of it goes to create jobs in the USA. Most of It goes offshore.

Literally billions and billions of dollars went to people that have no idea about what to do with money or create jobs with it nor even manage it.

This was cited in 60 minutes last week and numerous stories about where all the money went and is going from the fall out. Yes the Economy collapsed in 2008 in a big way but there were billions and billions of dollars paid out to Hedge fund managers and there clients.

I started my own bank and got a chunk of the gov bail out. My cats and dogs are the only customers of my bank. I loaned them some money to buy million dollar houses they can't afford then package the loans together and sold that package to my investment bank I just started and then got some more gov money. It's fun making money using other people's money and very little to no risk to me.

upper, middle, lower. :upsidedow

As usual, you're talking about something completely different and going off on a tangent about a specific incident. And yes, there are other incidents similar to that one that took place, it doesn't change where the majority of people get their "wealth."

Another way to look at it is this.

FACT: You can have a million dollars in the bank and never have to make another dime for the rest of you're life and live off the interest. Infact you can do this with even half a million and pull off a modest life style.

FACT: If you have no money in the bank you are condemned to earn a living to feed yourself.

FACT: If you have less than even $100,000 you will lose most of it to various taxes and cost of living although if you had a million you would not have to worry about taxes dwindling you're asset's.

This is why the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. After a certain threshold of cash the less you lose. With Investments for example one has something to invest while those with nothing can not invest anything.

These simple financial mechanics dictate that the rich tend to stay rich while the poor have dick.

I am a living example of just living off investments made. I do not have to work I choose to. My lifestyle is not massive I live quite modestly and only need a couple hundred bucks a month for going out or buying something I want. I know I never have to work a day in my life again just because I have interest's and investments.

Poor people are dependent on one source of income they have to put their days toward (employment). What's more, they use their money for junk. Rent payments, candy bars, video games, football shirts, beer, etc.

Wealthy people have income producing assets which feed into pools of wealth.

It's just that simple.

the only thing holding the investment world together is a lick & a promise. wall street is a ponzi scheme.

Thats true.:thumbsup

The answer is Motivation, everything else is an excuse.

i thought it was a question of motivation? :winkwink:

I was born a poor black child and was able to escape the ghetto. There is no excuse.

exactly...the rich want it more
the poor, can still be happy people

just they wont be driving new cars...or have the fanciest house etc

not the end of the world

Yeah right. So the people that win lotteries realy worked hard picking those 6 numbers.

i got the poor on me!
http://thisisthestoryof.files.wordpr...pg?w=500&h=270


life's a garden, dig it.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_10PhiR6Pn2...joe-dirt-1.jpg

:thumbsup

You never escape the ghetto...the world is a ghetto:thumbsup

this is one of the most stupid and illiterate subjects in GFY, and that is achievement by itself. I can point thousands of extremely rich people that never worked or "work" perhaps one hour a day and millions of people working 12-16 hours a day and still under extreme poverty. I mean, it the definition of capitalism, making CAPITAL work to create more wealth by owning the means of production and labor force. But it seems the entire world was wrong for the last 200 years or so and we're all living in some kind of parallel reality :Oh crap

Maybe the OP should go to one of those asian sweat shops to understand in which reality 99.999999999999999999999999999999999% of people live :2 cents:

Not if you see the world through Oscar The Grouch's eyes.

uhmmm... right....
:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

It takes money to make money.

Oscar is rich and doesn't have clear eyes:thumbsup

so tell me, do you live in a wonderful place where life is fair, hard working ALWAYS pays (without a single exception) and poor people is poor because they don't work? I mean, in your wonderful place Asia, Africa, most of America (yes, I'm including US!!!) just to name easy to spot examples simply doesn't exist? Really? So tell me oh wise one, how do we get to your great beautiful la-la-land!

This thread reminded me of a hilarious bit Dave Chappelle does on "The Secret". I dunno if this embed will work or not, so here's the URL just in case: https://youtube.com/watch?v=WbS9jZOlQjc&feature=fvst

You see... i'm not a socialist, i'm not a communist. I'm not a misguided dipshit who think's he's going to save a continent like Africa which clearly cant be saved AND doesnt want to be. The economic sun set on Africa with the departure of colonial rule. Just a simple fact.

I do have a grasp on economics and macro economics and fully understand that economies grow, wealth grows, opportunities grow, incomes grow and so on. 15 years ago in Russia, the average salary in Moscow was a few hundred dollars or much less. Today, its on par with the USA. How did that happen if everyone in the entire city is still wallowing in abject poverty with no opportunity?

There is no possible way to make everything fair and equal for everyone all the time. You are the one talking in absolutes.. not me.... I never said life is fair. I never said anything about "without a single exception" - which was a borderline insane remark to make. I never said poverty doesn't exist. I never said life is all about bubblegum, balloons and unicorns for all in every country on earth. Life is hard for people in any west african shithole just, as life is hard for inbreeders in the kentucky mountains. That doesn't change the fact that all it takes is initiative and determination to change that.

The sad thing is that people like you enslave people. You tell them they can't. You tell them that its not their fault. You tell them that without your help, they can't achieve anything.

Poverty exists everywhere. Even in the USA. In fact, the USA is the worlds greatest example of what is possible ... what an individual is capable of, for those who truly want it. People come here from all the shitholes you can name and then some and take advantage of every opportunity available to them and make a life for themselves, save money, import more family, rinse/repeat. If you can't see that happening all day, everyday, year in and year out in your own fucking back yard, there is no point in discussing whats going on around the globe as if you actually know or care.

Well tons of customers in the ghetto for crack.

so you're saying the same as me only that you think people from (say) some shit hole in Africa just need to work hard to become rich. And in between, that me and people like me enslave people :helpme

so, you wise guru of economy and macro economics, it's not (say) some Nike CEO exploiting kids in sweat shops, but.... ME!!!! Damn kids, they should work 24 hours a day to get free of my slavery and domination! :mad:

And tell me you Nobel Prize of Economy, why is that the same level of domination between individuals exists at state level? ie, what will happen if (say) Nicaragua develops a high technology industry? What if Argentina develops a high level nuclear industry or high tech agrochemical? (this is not hypothetical, I know what HAPPENED).

Last that I checked, both pro and anti socialist-capitalist-whatever positions accept and research the issue of industry outsourcing since it's an objective fact. But somehow, it eluded you.

Finally, why don't you explain to the kids who I work with everyday that not only they need to work EVEN MORE for those that enslave him, but, in fact, the ones that help them providing them education, opportunities, taking them out of the streets, drugs, prostitution, crime, etc... are the ones that ENSLAVE THEM!!!!

Don't embarrass yourself anymore, you don't have a fucking clue on what you're talking about oh wise economic guru

PS: btw, maybe you can tell the many people in US that busted their asses for a whole life and lost EVERYTHING due to your "beloved people that works so hard" that in fact they should work harder. Just go and tell that to them in their faces, I can assure you'll get quite impressed. To say the least.

There is opportunity everywhere for those who are looking for it, willing to sacrifice and bust ass and work their way out of the hole they are in. You are the one arguing that they can't and that life is just so unfair that its unreasonable to expect anyone to even try.

The existence of so called "sweatshops" or whatever moronic 3rd world buzzwords you want to use, do not change the fact that people in all these so called impoverished countries aren't working their way out of poverty every single day with their economies growing, with average household incomes growing and that even dirt poor individuals at an internet cafe in afghanistan, now have access to global markets.

Your like a retarded rap song going on about how tough it is in the ghetto when any idiot can buy a bus ticket to somewhere else and work if they want to. The pathetic thing is that instead of those crybaby assholes doing it... its people from other countries - vietnamese, filipinos, mexicans, indians, pakistanies and everyone else... living on a dirt floor, with 10 people in a room, saving up to buy airfare to travel 1/2 way around the world and do it.