Whatever man. The smilies were a symbol of friendship. Sorry you didnt see it that way. (no smilies for you)

And you expect people to give YOU their secrets.

Get a clue.

I was going to give you ALL my secrets. Glad I didnt. (still no smilies for you)

Thank you for replying, will discuss your post part be part.

Never said it would. so no idea where you got it from. I'm talking about converting better than we do. Maybe from 1-500 to 1-400, retaining an average of 7 weeks to an average of 8.

Of course this is right, what is great to a guy who likes Glamor, is not to a guy who likes Amateur. No idea where you got this from, not from me. Even I know the site has to shape the ideas according to the niche/style. I've always said the same person shooting all the content for a site is limiting the viewers selection. Manwin is good in employing different shooters.

Of course that's adapting. So why hasn't online porn adapted? We still sell the same product we sold 13 years ago. All that's changed is resolution and size. Basically we haven't adapted anything but the mode of delivery and now losing customers because of the lack of adapting to the fact recorded porn is now every where for free. Online porn can deliver so much more than recorded porn. Some sites offer live porn. I'm adapting that model to the paysite model.

This is a benefit not a disadvantage. Because the Internet mode of delivery is the only one that can use the idea and therefore puts it ahead in this area. Recorded porn can't, mobile porn can but the cost to the viewer is going to make it ineffective. You see it as a disadvantage for online porn, no idea why.

Insult again.

It will attract those paying on sites without live porn as well as free loaders. It's an added benefit for anyone, buyers on other sites and maybe some ex buyers who gave up as recorded porn is available everywhere for free.

More insults. With no proof adapting those sites wouldn't make the perform better. The people who just want the "dam porn" are catered for fine, Tubes, pirated, paysites with stacks of porn are everywhere. Why do you think that's the only thing everyone wants?

I'm telling people of something some could add to their sites to make them better. The situation is most simply couldn't afford it. A site with 1,000 would need to increase sign ups and retention by so much it's out of their reach. Unless they trim it back a lot. A girl 40 hours a week is going to cost from around $400 a week. $1600 a month. At $10 profit a sign up that's 160 sign ups, increase of 16%, will it perform that well? sites with 10,000 members only need an increase of 1.6%.

Which is an added benefit for those who can afford it. It keeps out the little man.
More insults. As you reached the wrong conclusions about what I'm posting, you don't have the right to say I have no idea.

The shame is people don't tell me what it's like today, except those who tell everyone it's getting tougher. And there's a lot who tell that.

You think inside the box all the time. If people only want the porn, then they can get it for free. And are doing so in increasing numbers.

Thank you for answering it's clear you're reading my posts wrongly. This is in no way going to increase ratios to 1-1, it's wrong to assume that. In fact I have said it's out of the reach of most sites and only for the elite. Maybe I'm dreaming there's an elite who could afford it. How many sites have a 10,000 recurring membership? The way so many talk I would of thought quite a few.

It's so obvious that principle ideas have to be adapted to each individual site, not right for every surfer or every site could afford it. I felt I didn't need to say it. I was wrong.

Thank you for replying.

As you've been around 20 years, you'll know how well magazines paid shooters. The competition to get in was fierce. If we submitted a set with the same shot repeated over and over again, it was thrown back at us. There's simply no need to repeat the same pose over and over again, even a picture of a pussy, how many times do you need to look at it? When it's the same pose with no pussy, you know the shooter isn't working properly.

Another elementary mistake is framing of wide screen video. Shooters are shooting girls standing, sitting or kneeling too much in wide screen format. The result is a scene which is often 50% to 70% the room. They need to shoot more her in the positions best suited for Wide Screen framing, laying, on all fours or on her side.

Also screens today are wide. Many shooters still shoot in portrait mode. Not right.

That's simply out side most sites budgets. The want to pay $300 to $500 for a solo girl scene. This is why so many sites fail to retain. They don't spend the money Met Art do.

Fighting is fine, we need to also compete with it.

It's another good reason to sign up and stay signed up.

Many. Ever seen a mosquito? :winkwink:

There are some pretty good guides.

Pay peanuts you get monkeys is the one that applies best here.

The secrets are written everywhere. Cozy Frog is just one place to find lots of advice. Loads of articles on how to push traffic, and get the most out of it. That's why there are 1,000s of people pushing it around in adult.

Here's a rule that applies most of the time.

The easier traffic is to get, the harder it is to get the surfers to buy.

Unless you have one of the elite sites with great content and a good tour. Then affiliates are falling over themselves to send traffic. That's how they make money. :thumbsup

If you look closely at the signatures, you'll find they are only affiliates trying to earn a crust by getting other affiliates to sign up off their link. That's assuming they have a signature. Or anything to put into it.

How can you say there needs to be a variety of poses and then say more poses should be of a horizontal nature to fill a wide screen format?

The reason some shoot portrait mode is to eliminate the wasted space you pointed out as being 50% to 70% of the room.

Your points seem to be contradictory.

Yes, I'd call paul a lying cunt all day long to his face, if I could ever be bothered to spend a few seconds with him.

Agree with the rest of your post, just bear in mind paul is one of the ones making 500 a month from online porn - probably less, in fact. It's a shame you've come to the conclusions of 'pussy group behaviour' and 'coward crap' without being aware of the facts, but hey ho, whatever :thumbsup

EukerVoorn why do you think literally everyone disagrees with paul? think about it.

Has anyone met this EukerVoorn? Anyone vouch for him? Is it possible Paul has worked out proxies and made himself a little sock puppet account?

:)

sounds like he is holland's answer to pm. no wonder they get along so well.

http://www.velocityreviews.com/forum...the-world.html

This guy, who is posting under the aliases of Euker Voorn and Jean-Kloot, is
suffering from a severe "borderline" disorder. That's why he escaped his
native Holland , cause he refused therapy and medication and is now living a
very seclusive and lonely live in France, with only his 20 cats as
companions. His livelyhood he makes from a small porn-business, only using
slutty eastern european models of a riper age. So this guy "jean-kloot" is
really a sick person with an ever sicker mind and should be ignored at all
costs to not give him the attention he so desperately needs, there in his
run down farmhouse in (very) rural France.

The same content, different tour/members area will convert differently like that. It's called split testing.



Some members like the exact same thing from the same person... same style, same total crap... and they buy and retain far past most sites.


It has adapted... I can see many vast differences in porn from the mid 90's to today, and even more from the 80's to today, just in the actual content. I dang sure do not sell the same porn today as I did 10-15 years ago... it's vastly better today. Or like above, another form of content adaption is every unique twist, quality level, niche, styles, etc... "variety" is a form of adaption.


Where did I say disadvantage? I simply told you what the facts are, free internet porn is one micro bubble of porn income/traffic to tap into. You're focused on "it" and wondering why your ratios tanked or sales are tough, when the Internet has so many other traffic sources that produce sales, ie: bring your ratios back down.


Hahaha, it's a movie quote.


That wasn't an insult... and, I said people want all different stuff... and not your eye.


No, it will not perform that well. Sure, 10k member sites could prob make a few people happy... but so would updating more, being that is what they actually purchased and all.


No, that's not an insult.. you've stated it from your own mouth before. So I was slightly off one one thing and I missed everything about you? :1orglaugh


Right right... I think in the box and you're doing live cams finally.. :Oh crap


No, I'm reading your posts dead on.... the 1:1 was me mocking you.

10k members is 300k a month, many sites make 300k a month - but that size isn't needed to have some fun. You really only need about 20 sales a day, 15-20k a month for a site, to really start doing more updates, new features, live stuff, etc... however, it's all comes down to what the surfer expects. If you sell them 5 videos, that's what they expect. If you sell them daily updates, that's what they expect. If you produce hq content, your surfers expect it, if it's amateur shot gf stuff, that's what they expect....

It's that simple, adaption is providing "them" with "exactly" what they want, when they want it and how they want it. Not changing what they're getting - what they purchased, not making it different... which means you're now attracting a different group of people and your leaving out those that expect to get exactly what was sold to them.

You need to go back and read it again.

So split test the site. A month with and a month withiut, or 2 sites if you want to be picky.

True but it limits the site.


It hasn't. Fashion has changed, but unless girls have new holes to fill it's still basically the same. Give specific examples and samples.


Why are you talking traffic? This is about surfers hitting the site. I thought you were talking different modes of porn delivery. Goes without saying different people use different methods to send traffic.

Still insulting.

So we have to look wider to what appeals. Not stay where we have been for 12 years.

No you don't know. Unless you have tried it on your site.

no you were off on more than one thing.

So there are sites doing this already. Can you show me please?

I'm adapting the present model to another present model.

So just being sill. OK.

So let the big boys talk about it and the Ma &Pa operations can dream.

Adaptation is sticking to what you're doing. :upsidedow

This isn't changing anything, it's adding to. I think that last pert showed your thinking. Keep adapting without changing or adding. :1orglaugh

Back to ignore. You contradict yourself so many times in your post. One minute they want the same, the next they all want different, the next you say adapt, then by doing nothing new. Make up your mind.

You need to go back and read it again.

OK here's a clue.

One camera is for stills, the other for video.

You split test everything, you can even split test new content, a button, a style of upsell, etc.



Not at all... a niche is not a limit.




I see a massive difference in your content vs todays content by many others. Quality, sound, niches, themes, music, and even the acting has improved, for sure at the higher end.




Because it relates to conversions you brought up? IE: free porn traffic is one source, one type, a micro source of traffic/sales, and if you want more sales, lower ratios, find new sources of traffic.


We do as an industry look wider, we have 1000's of various things that appeal to millions of different people.

We've had several big dick live shows and few of our busty girls do various things.... we just copied someone else.



Topbucks does it, lots of people do... I don't go around joining paysites to check out the live cams.


So just being sill. OK.



So let the big boys talk about it and the Ma &Pa operations can dream.



Hahaha.. yeah, that's what I said, sticking to what I'm doing.

Providing them what they want, means moving to where they are, and providing it for them.. is it really that hard for you to grasp?


Sure.. put me on ignore, I love to trash talk people that have no idea what I have said to them.

Traffic easy to get? Sure, I can make 1 click in no time, but try to get 1.000.000 unique visitors in short period of time (a week or even one month). That might be kinda difficult.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ld...lo1_r2_500.gif
http://i51.tinypic.com/2h4ffk4.gif

I would have trusted you in a less hostile environment :-)

And I repeat, I know that Paul is preaching in front of the WRONG audience. This is affls room. I get it now. And accept it.

I'll keep my eyes open. I still think that even if someone makes $500 a month, you might still learn things from him. Take Paul's condition into consideration for god's sake!

For the rest, all I try to say is, to everybody in this industry... be positive, use your energy for good things, don't be a chat addict. You can argue with someone in a chatroom for 3 hours, or you can setup a new site in 3 hours or finally fix those bugs in your active sites. Do your administration, finally send it that income tax report. Take your mom to the cinema or go shopping for that old disabled guy living next to you. The wole world seems to become so damn negative. Again, if something or someone annoyes you, look the other way, ignore it. You can't change Paul so you'll have to accept that he's always going to be the way he is.

hahahaha yeah that's about me, and it's all true. The guy who wrote this died about one year later due to alcohol abuse. He litterally dropped down dead on the floor. Come visit me in alt.madcrew, brother yew.

Yeah true, A LOT of them, in here. We're still on the same page.

WTF? If I would have seen your post earlier I would have stopped posting here and then you would have gone on for weeks about how you knew that Euker Voorn from this chatroom and how he vanished in the middle of a discussion :1orglaugh

I like Paul Markham and generally find image macros tiresome, but that is fucking funny.

No hard feelings. Things can get misinterpreted easily around here. :) (smilies for you :) ) From one cat lover to another :thumbsup

Paul, is it better to have (in general) easier conversions but traffic (generally) harder to get (like years ago) OR tougher conversions but traffic easier to get? There are surely way more places to buy traffic now days.

Imo IF you can find something that sells, it is easier now days to get ahead because traffic is easier to get. It is tougher overall now days for sure but for a few it may be actually easier to get ahead now days.

From an affs point of view of course.

Anyhow just my :2 cents:

Carry on :)

Hey you're cool and I should have seen that easier. Sometimes we reply a bit too quicky.

I love all animals, but in particular cats, they rule, period.

As for traffic, what everybody seems to forget is that you have different qualities of traffic. It all depends where it comes from. SEO is great, people who look you up because they saw your video a tube is crap traffic because they only come to your site to look for free previews and if they like a preview they go look it up on Google to see if they can get the full movie for free somewhere. It's also crazy how AdBrite never worked for me, and AdWords works great for me.

Ok I owe you a few, to put things back in balance: :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)

Stay positive and constructive!

I only notice it now and yes it is very funny. Is there a site where you can make pics like this easily using default gifs?

Have you ever posted on here when you are sober?

Paul, let me ask you again since I'm sure you just didn't see my last post in this thread.

Can you tell us some of the basic marketing techniques you used to make Paul Markham Teens such a success?

So the problem isn't getting traffic. It's getting enough traffic to make a standard wage.

1,000,000 SE hits, forget about it and if you could you're wasting your time in adult.

1,000,000 off traffic guys. Dead easy = Income Very Low

1,000,000 to a tube site. Easy = Income off surfers converting at around 1-5,000 low, around $6,000 a month assuming you get $30 a sign up. If the sponsor provides everything it's nearly all profit and making $72,000 from the spare room as a one man band isn't to be laughed at. Start spending money to get traffic, hosting, programs it's still not bad. but please. It's not big bucks.

So getting traffic, masses of it isn't hard. Earning a living off it that's getting harder. Because sign ups are king and retention Emperor.

Do you now see my point? We've billions of surfers, well a lot. Getting them to free porn isn't that hard, getting enough to get one to buy is the problem. We've tackled this problem the same way for 12-15 years and look where we are today?
It's time to look for a new solution, not keep beating our heads against the wall with the old one.

I had some great meeting and discussions with a couple of guys at the Prague show and will post some thoughts tomorrow.

Is there something we could do to turn 1-5,000 to 1-500 in actual surfers, not banner clicks? Yes deliver a product hat's really going to make them want to see more. Vjo has the right thinking.

Yes if you can find something mainstream that really sells, can't be cloned easily and won't break the bank to create it. Then you're on the road to $$$$$$$$$$$$.

As a sponsor yes, as an affiliate the problem is soon everyone and their brother will be promoting it. Still it will get good sales.

The problem toady, we discussed at the show, was today very very few have something that really sells well. Who was it who said dozens of really good sites? Even 100 would make it a minority of paysites.

But I understand affiliates feeling of impotence. There's little they can do but keep adding more traffic. They are merely feeding off what sponsors give them. Or could they?

Absolutely none. Because we had bigger fish to fry. It's still up there what 6-7 years after we launched it. Lot's never lasted that long. The content was as you know all saturated content store stuff which we sold very well to lots of other sites. That was after selling it to magazines and DVD companies.

We did the usual free content and FHGs, Girl of the Day and even mini sites of our promo stuff.

As you must of missed my previous answers to this same question, or very similar. Maybe I'll tell you again in big and bold.

THE PAYSITES ARE JUST ONE INCOME FLOW. AND NOT THAT IMPORTANT TO US.

We saw too many fail. Watched people like Jel with his site. It's obviously a low priority to him and even with all his skills driving traffic, gets lower rating than our FHGs do.

Now did you get that?

Like what? With all that knowlege your site could have been bigger than twistys, met-art and brazzers all combined.

Let me tell ya what I get, Paul. You haven't done a damn thing regarding creating or converting traffic in the real world. You don't have the credentials or the experience to teach anything about traffic to even a newbie. You can't even figure out the basics of traffic conversion, anyone can see that reading your posts..........but the kicker is I've seen you in action and you failed.

Your paysite isn't your main revenue stream? No shit.

I've been watching you bullshit for five years or so. Bottom line, you want to talk shit about making money online with porn or converting traffic........come back when you've done something. Paying the hosting on a POS paysite that doesn't make money doesn't qualify. Accomplish something or shut the fuck up.

You want to talk about cameras or shooting content, I'll listen. You've actually done that.

Thank you for the praise.

I'm sure with my knowledge of creating a product that sells, making a site that's sticky and knowing how to market porn beside throwing out 1,000s of samples the same as everyone else has we could of made a good job of it. I look around and see the level of people who did and realise that maybe giving up an income many in the paysite game never got near was just a cozy choice.

But it's a tough choice. Up to our eyes in finding new girls, to shoot for a day and turn over $6,000 from 2-3 sets. In favor of shooting something that really would of set us apart from the rest of the pack and wouldn't of sold to traditional markets.

The decision we faced in 2000 was simple. Put up another teeny site that had little to offer above what 100s of others had to offer, except better shot content wasn't going to really cut it. You have to consider we were talking direct with the owners of some of these sites and when it came to buying content, they weren't talking big like they talk to affiliates. It was always the same, "Can't afford that."

After setting up, running and marketing the site, the budget for content was $300 a solo girl scene. Talk to them about shooting 200 in a year, under a contract, and they ran for the hills. Many of the people you think were big, could only afford to buy 30-50 sets at a time.

Were we going to switch from shooting magazine sets that sold for $1,000s over and over again, to a market that swallowed up everything or nearly everything we shot, which we still owned and still had sales online, to start a paysite that from our POV wasn't going to be as good a prospect?

If you have even been to the Vegas AVN show, that's the DVD one no online one, or Berlin Venus show. Then compare them the the Vegas Internext or Amsterdam show you would understand our dilemma.

Same goes for magazines. Visiting PRO, Galaxy, David Sullivan, Score, Crescent, Hustler, Swank and others offices and them knowing that some of the guys you praise are running from a tinny office or from even their homes. You think twice.

Online porn markets and markets to affiliates a lot more than to customers. It spends a small fortune marketing and paying affiliates and a tiny section to the real people who bring in the money. Customers.

And look where it got us. How many sites retain on average 6 months? That for offline porn isn't a big figure. People bought the same magazine or DVD title year after year.

Why did Private, Wicked, Digital Dreams and others spend a lot of money on 1 or 2 titles?

Why doesn't any site pay $100 PPS on a constant basis. Besides the fraud issue?

Think about while I take the dog for his walk.

shade001 you're an idiot. your only claim is being a faceless troll. As for creating traffic, you've never done that in your life. A man holding a sign in a street directing people into a shop isn't creating traffic. He's steering existing traffic. If you knew anything about converting traffic, you would be rich. Your game is holding up a sign for people looking at porn to look at some more porn and you're hoping 1 in a few 100 or few 1,000 will buy something.

So join my idiot list. Some call it an Ignore List, I would never ignore anyone with something worth listening to.

lol .............................

Shade, getting 10 people looking for porn, at a porn sample to click on a banner to go to a site and then 1 in 100 buy something isn't creating or converting anything. It's piling shelves full of something people want in the hope someone will buy.

Shooting a porn picture, that makes that person want more and go to a site with more, is creating traffic and conversions. Your flowery words and design are not making anyone buy. Just look at the porn on the page you put up. From then on it's in the hands of the porn producers to make the viewer into a buyer.

Online porn thinks otherwise. It thinks if you send enough people at something they want, one will eventually buy. Pile the viewers high enough and it looks like it all works. Untill Tubes, made buying unnecessary.

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh :1orglaugh:1orglaugh

This is exactly why you need to stfu about traffic you brain-dead fuck...

Oh, the irony :1orglaugh

So back the the two questions I posed.

Added a bit as many don't know how selling works.

To give you a clue it's why every so often some sponsor will give a $100 sign up day or throw a big flash party at a show. It gets a lot of attention.

The big offline porn producers did exactly the same, but not to the shops who sold their goods. It was directed at consumers. They know that a big production raises eyebrows of consumers. The big guys were already in all the shops and if they got consumers to notice the product they had a good chance of buying it. And once a customer bought one months issue, they bought next months and the the months afterwards and often for years. The consumer found a product that hit the right buttons and they stuck to it well. Yes sometime they didn't stick to it and sometimes it was every other month.

Online spends a lot on marketing to affiliates. Banners on all the boards, new tools, $100 a sign up weekend and big parties. Yet the members all this new traffic generates often hits a site that has little to offer and the member leaves in a month or two or three on average. So a single sign up is worth $90 on average. You all know your retention stats and it varies, but don't be an ass and pick holes in stats. You know retention on the vast majority of sites is low.

Because the average retention on the vast majority of sites is low. :1orglaugh

Why?

The content simply isn't good enough, different enough or even special to keep them any longer.

Yes as a troll pointed out a few sites are good enough. Met-Art is just one of a small handful. Think of these great mainstream sites that retain, ask yourself why and then. Think of the last time you saw them blast a banner on all boards, give you $100 sign up weekends, throw a big expensive party at a show or use any of the things others do to get attention.

They spend more on content, they get sign ups, they keep members and they get affiliates praising them on boards.

Would Met-Art be a great site spending $300 on a scene?

I was once at the party of a very big sponsor and chatting to him about content, on a boat at show. He wanted us to shoot for him. His offer was laughable. His thinking was shooters were only worth $500 a day. My thinking was if he spent the money he did trying to impress affiliates, impressing members and surfers, he wouldn't need to throw big parties.

Because after most affiliates see how well a site performs, they soon decide whether or not to keep going with it.

This is real marketing and every time you go out of your office into the real world you see it over and over again. A company has a big marketing campaign to get you to buy one time. Knowing the product is good enough to keep you buying it over and over again. The most they do with the retailers is give them a display or tell them of the promotion to consumers. They don't direct much marketing to the retailers. This obviously applies most to repeat buy products like porn.

And this is why I chuckle at people like Jel.

What ever posts I just need to look at his site, does it compare with either of mine?

www.mixedracelesbos.com or www.paulmarkhamteens.com/tour/ or the members area look like this.

Or his stats look like this?

http://traffic.alexa.com/graph?&w=40...rkhamcash.com&

Or like this?

http://traffic.alexa.com/graph?&w=40...acelesbos.com&

It's obvious why. he doesn't make enough money to invest in a good design, good content and then make the site worth signing up to. And when anyone does, they don't stay long.

I know what my sites make, the difference in promoting something really exclusive and unique. So I have an idea what a failure his site is.

He dreamsof being able to get a million hits off a SE to his site, not that it would make him rich. Because even with million SE hits they still aren't buying.

"the wise man mocks the man. the mocked man mocks the mocker"

Whos still doing that?

BTW, nice seeing you in Prague again :thumbsup

I lol'd :thumbsup

So dumb, you have to think he's kidding. But not smart enough to pull off such an elaborate plan to look so dumb all the time... so he you're thinking that he can't be kidding. Then you think back quite a few years and you're thinking "yeah, actually he was always like this but it was just about other shit like politics, it was only after all his business completely tanked did he start babbling about tubes and why porn is a dead business and only he knows how to make money in porn".

He's always saying shit that no sane person can believe and so clearly speaking about things he knows nothing about, so you even though you know better, you still keep thinking "no one is this stupid"... but he's clearly not intelligent enough to pull off such an elaborate plan to consistently look so retarded just to wind people up, so you know that logically, he has to be this stupid... but its a sort of stupid that's just so deep, so profound and so unwavering no matter what facts are presented, that you are still thinking he can't be serious even as you start to realize he actually is.

The guy comes here to this forum to beg for money, admits his wife has to work to help pay the bills, his business is a joke, he lives off the government/pensions, not porn... but lectures non stop about how to make money in porn.

Such an epic mind fuck from the best accidental troll ever. A troll that's so dumb, he doesn't even know he's trolling... he actually thinks he's proving points and making sense. It's a stupid that runs so deep, a stupid that's so pure, that you kinda have to admire it in a way.

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

http://rlv.zcache.com/i_love_irony_t...80qmkd_400.jpg

I may be an idiot but I know enough not to lecture people who do for a living what I only talk about, unlike you.

As to me being a faceless troll, sure, I don't use my name or photo here. Why the fuck would I? I'm not an affiliate rep or trying to sell hosting. Some people know me elsewhere, that's enough. This is not a place I would conduct business, anyway. I come here to amuse myself at your expense.

They still spend money. Big payout promos, banners, yes the parties aren't what they used to be and banners are cheaper and many have discovered opening a Tube for themselves is getting sign ups at a better margin.

Think of it in context to the whole post. I'll post something about it tomorrow.

Good seeing you, should of come over, shown you my award and thanked you for your help getting me it. :thumbsup

thread summary

traffic is really really easy to get -paul markham told us so !

ironically paul has no traffic at all but try to ignore that technical detail