Exactly. I have said in this thread that getting lots of high quality traffic is hard.

What do you know about the product, content of a site? If my content is crappy, how come it's saturated. To saturate content, we need to sell it, especially in a main stream niche like Teens. So are loads of sponsors buying it, to saturates it? Which makes Squealers posts stupid, well more stupid. Or is it not selling to anyone and getting saturated. :upsidedow

And the quality of the product applies more than many think and that's what this thread is about.

When a surfer hits a site the product can often make crap traffic good traffic. You must see differences in conversion ratios, you're sending much the same traffic to different sponsors who convert very differently. When they sign up you see different sites retain longer than others. This is what makes traffic worth 3 cents per click or 6 cents per click. Numbers to illustrate the point.

This thread is entirely about turning your traffic from being worth 6 cents per hit to 12 cents a hit. It's about offering something on the tour that 1,000 other sites in the same niche and style offer, offering something inside the site 1,000 others don't.

Is that of some interest to you?

It's about the product and as a producer of product that over the years has made me enough money to employ others and stay in business for 34 years it's something I know a little about.

The truth is while sponsors spend a lot of thought, money on affiliates and traffic, also giving them everything and all possible assistance. They spend very little on the product. If you want every banner click to be worth more, sponsors are the ones who can make that happen.

This is the problem.

When some people selling don't care about the people producing. The people producing move to another seller. Or don't move to the person who needs their product.

That applies to 100s of good/great content producers, they simply were not and still not interested in working for online porn. Because of the money offered. In fact the good ones go the other way. So his restaurant ends up selling moldy crap potatoes. And eventually patrons stop buying.

Cutting the quality of the product with so many potential buyers walking by, is madness.

What I do know about traffic is how to sell to it and keep it buying.

I leave the collecting of it to others.

Using his analogy, changing it to the grocer instead of restaurant and applying it to online adult. The problem is clear.

His analogy works perfectly if there's only one grocer in town. When every other shop is a grocer, who do you buy from?

If they're all selling much the same, price becomes the most important factor. If 99 of the grocers care little about the product and ones cares a lot to get a great product, then quality becomes an important issue.

In online porn there's 1,000s of places to buy from and 1,000s of places to get it for free.

So what's left other than just sending more/better traffic to a site?

Is the only option to offer a better quality quality product. To care about the farmer, meet his needs, give him the tools and money he needs to produce a better product and instead of just stacking the potatoes in a big bin. Offer something more to the shopper. Like advice how to cook the potatoes or recipes. Or a real live person who will talk to shoppers.

When buying potatoes, convenience is paramount for many. so we shop at a supermarket. Nothing is more convenient than getting free porn from a Tube site. We need to up our game in a different area than just better/more traffic. We've been doing that for years and if we aren't at the peak of our abilities today, we never will be.

It's time to apply the thinking to another angle.

god shut up man there are dozens of high quality websites that are loved by surfers and make loads of sales every day.

example http://hegre-art.com/galleries even at your best you couldn't touch the worst of that they produce.

please just stop.

very good content

to add surfers have no problems signing up for that site. they have loads of amazing content, always updated, most of my sales for the site are yearly memberships.

i know you will say the site is worthless because a foot was cut off in one photo but really man you just have no clue.

i could go on and list a few dozen amazing websites off the top of my head which do killer sales even in the age of tubes.

sure sites that were built around a flashy tour and 20 paul markham bargain basement content videos have died, but that's good. that model was substandard and has been eliminated by the market. adapt or die.

This is why people give paul a hard time - he talks absolute shit 100% of the time, lies over and over again, and has been caught out many times, and people new to this board take him at his word. You just admitted you know nothing about being an affiliate (no idea if you have a true grasp on traffic), yet are falling for paul's bullshit. This isn't a board where dummies hang out, and bullshit gets called with no delay. After literally hundreds if not thousands of posts which are outright lies, as well as a failure to grasp even the most basic principles of the online porn business, along with a refusal to acknowledege *anyone's* expertise AND insane ramblings yes, paul gets treated like the cunt he is.

ps This is a very fast moving board, and it's easy for people to rack up their post count, so I wouldn't take too much in the way of high counts being a sign of complete time-wasting.

TheSquealer for President :thumbsup

Dozens out of 10,000s. :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

God please, don't shut up I enjoy your humor.

So is it time to look beyond just the videos and images?

Met-Art are good photographers. Maybe we should see more of the whole sets and videos before making an assumption on the package.

But they prove my theory works. If you have a great product, you sell much better. Stopping at just that is 1998. We need to up our game.

Is it time to turn the dozens of loved sites into 1,000s and figure out how to do it to convert more of your traffic?

The problem for 95% of this industry is they were never willing or able to spend what Met Art do all the time.

Actually at my average I sold to magazines, a market that paid up to 10 times what 95% of this market will pay. Met-Art to my knowledge didn't sell in the market we sold to. Comparing 2 different fields.

Compare Met-Art with Suze Randall and you have something comparable.

http://hegre-art.com/films

Here's a scene that was created by people who were on a lot more than $500 a solo girl scene and told to shoot 5 in a day. Why not apply the professional good budget Met-Art model of creating a product to the more popular forms of porn. Not the glamor style, all styles. Most of the porn today is created on a much different model and why ratios suck.

He's brighter than Palin, but dumber than Bush. So his chances are great. LOL

dozens "off the top of my head" idiot. sites that i deal with and promote.

yes there are 10,000 shitty poor selling websites. as there are 10,000 shitty selling books, movies, restaurants etc. so what?

no one gives a fuck about Suze Randall. people care about met-art, yes. no one even knows or cares about Suze Randall or all the other dinosaurs of the magazine age.

Ignore the people who have been rude. I also think your question is quite valid, in fact the whole point of a board like this.

On the subject of Paul Markham I am afraid you will find that what is said about him is true. If you say anything he disagrees with he will insult you and rant on of for page after page of the same rubbish until you lose the will to live.

It is a great shame because it prevents interesting discussions that could happen here.

Good post.

Totally. The problem is as Porno Jew points out, there's now only dozens of sites prepared to pay the cost of great content. Those that do, as he says are loved by members, I assume have lots of them and lots of webmasters send traffic. The model works. :thumbsup

True. However we need a lot more than equipment. Many shooters have all that, they don't have the experience, personality and skills to direct models. Or ability to shoot 100 different pictures. When you have it, you're not shooting for $300 a scene exclusive for ATK.

That's what this thread is about. Getting more out of the traffic. The problem with getting quality, unique material is the cost. It simply can't be done on the prices online in general pay. Every time one of them wants to show great content, they point to a few sites. There aren't a lot of sites to point at.

I recently reviewed Twistys and found the image sets simply weren't good enough from many producers to sell to magazines. Too many duplicated shots, wrong poses, bad poses. Etc.

Is the problem too little money after marketing costs or simply the lack of will. Because as PJ points out. Members love great content.

The piracy problem isn't going anywhere. Unless there's massive Government control it stays where it is or grows. We have to live with it and adapt our model to a better one.

Selling recorded porn is not easy, it's made harder when the content is much the same on 100s to 1,000s of sites. You protect your and the next guy doesn't. You still loses a sale.

So we need to offer more than recorded porn. That's so logical it's amazing. Live sells. Adapting the live model to the paysite model more than we do is an option. The only examples I've seen were upsells to 1-1 which is every where.

Would a site with live girls to chat to for the price of $30 a month and all the recorded porn sell better than one with just recorded porn?

Would a site with live sex shows once twice a day, for the price of $30 a month and all the recorded porn sell better than one with just recorded porn?

Would the cost of this be more than the benefits?

At the moment I see a trend of more and more people going for the free option. We need to think of a new strategy than just piling in more traffic. It's probably just coming from someone else, who will up his game and take it back.

Too bad Paul doesn't practice what he preaches....

I should go around and tell everyone here why they suck at being billionaires and how each of you are doing it wrong. No, I don't have a billion dollars, but I can act like I do.... and teach you why you don't, a double win for everyone!

Can you point out where my ideas are wrong please? Please, again. :)

Would upping the product game have a good effect on your stats?

Would landing people on a site that was converting and retaining better make you more money?

Are you scared of the possibility that other sites you don't promote will do it and this will cost you money?

Are you scared the cost of it, might get taken out of your payments?

So far no one has come up with any constructive debate against my ideas. Just the usual dribble of insults.

We need more than insults to ideas of change. We need better ideas or people to think the ideas through and develop them. So far no one has done that, just the usual insults.

PJ has shown very clearly there's a lack of truly great sites, compared with the saturation of poor ones.

Alex pointed out we made more money by selling our content so much it was saturated. Alex also pointed out the problem isn't traffic, it's quality traffic. Same as tours and members areas, it's quality that sells.

Then what's quality. 99-100 saying no on a tour. 499-500 saying no on a tour?

1:3 ratios = fail, fact!

Okay... starting things off is this line of questions.... they're not relevant to anything, however I will answer them.

No.

Of course.

No.

No.

Your theory is wrong because nobody converts 1:1, even people looking to buy - with an actual need, don't always buy.

Quality is unique per site, project, product, etc... quality is in the eye of what the person wants or desires that is buying. Quality is not an equal standard set by you or anyone. Even the worst quality porn has value to some, and the best quality porn doesn't attract everyone.


Now let's cover some of your posts in this thread.

What is adapt or die? It's changing and moving and never sitting still, moving with porn, as it moves throughout various technologies, systems, etc... it's in places you and me and others, will never think of, ever... but it's waiting for us to find and monetize it either way. This is the history of porn, from as far back as history can track it, it has moved.... always!

So, the "issue" I see with your logic is simple, you're focused on the 'internet porn on a pc', at that "free" internet porn on the pc. That's one bubble, one thing... one tinny ass, micro revenue stream, within a technology and is two-steps down within the system.

Hello... McFly.

If you want your ratios back, how about you start by not looking in the big pile of free loaders..... Huh? Logical eh?


Btw, your ideas on content is flat wrong. You think all this crazy shit has to be done with content, all these rules... fact is, you have no idea what is good or bad in porn, because you are not everyone in the world. You telling these producers what they're doing right and wrong, is so laughable... You have no idea what "members" want.. I know sites that break every single rule you say that retain a 100x better than the sites you think are good. Oh and cross 'technology' wise, people don't give a shit... they just want the damn porn!

I'm not cutting you down or being ass, but no bullshit - you have no idea wtf is going on in this Industry. You're not in it, accept the facts, why would you know this stuff? Other than people have been telling you it for like 2 years and you just ignore it.

You seem like a good guy ( I read a couple of posts from you )

Please, follow my advice:
Don't waist too much time in here: 90% of GFY users are loosers and keyboard warriors.

Il y a beaucoup mieux à faire que d'essayer de discuter avec des idiots qui, de toutes façons, ne veulent pas discuter mais plutôt te ridiculiser devant leurs cyber-copains qui les trouvent tellement drôle!

Do you lot still not realise he is just fucking about?

He won troll of the year for a reason. He posts shit he doesn't actually believe in order to wind you all up.

And it works.

Time and time again.

He's a genius and you're all idiots for playing his game.

After years of ass pounding him you don't get to call peoples cards on this... :upsidedow

Randall shot great stuff in the 70s and 80s, after that I think she lost interest in the work but she kept working to collect her moneys I suppose, but her product became more and more pathetic and the videos in which you can see her work are even more pathetic. Both her and the model are going through the same routine over and over again and Randall is saying the same stuff over and over again "great baby, yeah great. Great baby, yeah great". You can see the model thinking... "yeah right". lol

Just a word to the wise is all.

Took me long enough to realise. Just trying to save everyone else some time :)

I don't take Paul at his word. I'm not a newbie in this industry, I've been running a porn production company for 20 years now, starting in the years that people couldn't even imagine that one day there would be something like the internet. In those 20 years I learned to listen to everybody who has to say something and try to filter out the informaton that might be useful for what I'm doing. I also learned to respect people, even the people that annoy me, or seem to be useless to me. And most important; what I learned from 15 years internet is that you shouldn't say things to people in a forum that you wouldn't say to them if you would meet them face to face either. Nobody ever called me a French faggot in my face because by then they already saw the size of my fists and you wouldn't call Paul a lying cunt if you were standing in front of him either. Now am I Jesus? No way, you should see the nasty stuff I'm writing to people on the Dutch groups of usenet (alt.madcrew is my home). It's easy to get dragged into the negativity, isn't it? I find staying positive and constructive one of the most difficult things in life, especially when I'm tired. But there's always one thing I've stayed away from, and that's pussy group behaviour, jump on one individual with a big group, and that's coward crap.

Even in the adult industry and even on a board called "Go fuck yourself" we should try to be PROFESSIONAL. The things people write about each other in here have nothing to do with professionalism but everything with amateurism. And again, I know it's hard. I can do my share of name calling on forums and even in private mail as well, but am far of proud of it.

I agree (again) that I know nothing about affiliation. I never used affiliation much, I mainly rely on Google AdWords (working great for me) and SEO (paying specialists in India for that, works great as well). I want to jump into affiliation soon though because there's money to be made. As for traffic, I know all about it from a self selling producer point of view, but not from an affiliate point of view. But like I wrote before, I want to learn. I came to this board to sort out my little problem with a payment processor and it's great to see that there is so much else to learn in here.

I wouldn't think that there's a lot of dummies hanging out here but I really get the impression that there's a lot of folks hanging out here who are making maybe $500 a month or less and consider themselves part of "the industry", either accepting this pathetic income or not believing they can do any better than this. Then if they're spending all day arguing with someone they don't agree with or don't like, I wonder why they don't get their ass moving and stop with the negativity and start working on their sites again. Porn Muslim is right when he claims that there are still plenty of sites doing well despites the tubes and the Russian cunts and I think what Paul is trying to say is that if you want, and if you work hard enough for it, you can still make good money in this web porn industry.

So when you don't see me posting in here anymore, you know why that is: I got back to work, trying to increase my sales a little again. I'm definitely not going to stick around in this arguing about nothing crap for a long time!

I'm new here and usually I learn fast. And people need to learn to ignore the ones that annoy them, or the threads that are likely going to be like this one. I don't think I'll be reading the next one :-)

Paul I totally agree with you, we're still on the same page. I don't want to bash Twistys though, they have an unique recognizable style. I agree though that they should select their series more carefully. I've seen series with 30 close-ups of the vagina in a row. Apart from that... they do what they do and they made some great fetish videos wich I find surprisingly good.

As for investing in productions: I shoot a lot of different things from very mild to very extreme and pay models up to 5000 euro per day, cash. I fly them in from all over the world, including the USA. Many people told me, and still tell me, I'm crazy. But when paying models that kind of crazy money, they'll do anything you ask them to do, they push their own limits, and they'll keep doing it till 4 in the morning if neccessary to get the shoot done. My customers love what I shoot, they see gorgeous girls doing the filthiest stuff, and this is what porn is all about, and should be about. Being a good pornographer means you have to have the guts and be willing and be capable of re-inventing porn. Nobody is interested in copy cats. Remember the first Andrew Blake movie? Great stuff. How long did it take before other producers copied his style (black and white shots, slow motion, pans and tilts?)? And it was all CRAP!

I agree on the piracy problem but we have to continue trying fighting it, or else! We need to do the things I listed in my previous post about preventing piracy. I agree though that if your neigbor doesn't do anything against it, it still affects you. Why would people pay for YOUR porn if they can get your neigbors porn FOR FREE elsewhere?

I also agree on the LIVE thing. It's something I want to add to my sites soon. Pirates can never steal that from you, and they can never duplicate it, because they don't have the skills to produce. That's why they became pirate parasites in the first place :-)

Has there been any kind of parasite in recent history that humans weren't able to get rid off or at least control it?

Thanks. Well I'm here for professional purposes and try to be positive and constructive. And don't you find the vast group of losers and keyboard warriors in every forum? And I agree on the second bit, but isn't that what being a kid is all about? I was like that when I was 12 and a very long time ago already I learned to accept that most people never grow up. That's why I can't wait for the real big economical crash to happen, so I can sit down on my terace, grab a bottle of Bordeaux and a piece of Epoisses cheese, and observe how this stupid useless cattle is going to cope with that :-)

I'll stick around and I'll learn which people are serious and worth chatting to and which ones are the pretenders and wannabes. I'll save my dirty underwear for them :-)

EukerVoorn, affiliates never talk real biz on chatboards and prob rightly so. :) Always been that way. :)

Damian, I disagree. :) I think Paul believes every word. I just am not gonna read all that.

3 lines max per post is the old school rule. I try and do that, usually unsuccessfully. :) Folks just dont read more than that. :)

Paul, you do do a good job of spacing your text and I usually read all your posts. If I start a post I read it.

But Euker, you are way over the top. lol :) Producers might read it but affils will never. Noone knows what you said. :)

What you posted is like 200 posts around here :)

You sure have a SallyRandesque aftertaste, Pilsner Euker ....

There are no rules in porn biz. Maybe for the simple ones who use smileys where other people use periods, but not for everybody. And I already wrote somewhere that Paul is preaching for the wrong audience, didn't I?

Whatever man. The smilies were a symbol of friendship. Sorry you didnt see it that way. (no smilies for you)

And you expect people to give YOU their secrets.

Get a clue.

I was going to give you ALL my secrets. Glad I didnt. (still no smilies for you)

Thank you for replying, will discuss your post part be part.

Never said it would. so no idea where you got it from. I'm talking about converting better than we do. Maybe from 1-500 to 1-400, retaining an average of 7 weeks to an average of 8.

Of course this is right, what is great to a guy who likes Glamor, is not to a guy who likes Amateur. No idea where you got this from, not from me. Even I know the site has to shape the ideas according to the niche/style. I've always said the same person shooting all the content for a site is limiting the viewers selection. Manwin is good in employing different shooters.

Of course that's adapting. So why hasn't online porn adapted? We still sell the same product we sold 13 years ago. All that's changed is resolution and size. Basically we haven't adapted anything but the mode of delivery and now losing customers because of the lack of adapting to the fact recorded porn is now every where for free. Online porn can deliver so much more than recorded porn. Some sites offer live porn. I'm adapting that model to the paysite model.

This is a benefit not a disadvantage. Because the Internet mode of delivery is the only one that can use the idea and therefore puts it ahead in this area. Recorded porn can't, mobile porn can but the cost to the viewer is going to make it ineffective. You see it as a disadvantage for online porn, no idea why.

Insult again.

It will attract those paying on sites without live porn as well as free loaders. It's an added benefit for anyone, buyers on other sites and maybe some ex buyers who gave up as recorded porn is available everywhere for free.

More insults. With no proof adapting those sites wouldn't make the perform better. The people who just want the "dam porn" are catered for fine, Tubes, pirated, paysites with stacks of porn are everywhere. Why do you think that's the only thing everyone wants?

I'm telling people of something some could add to their sites to make them better. The situation is most simply couldn't afford it. A site with 1,000 would need to increase sign ups and retention by so much it's out of their reach. Unless they trim it back a lot. A girl 40 hours a week is going to cost from around $400 a week. $1600 a month. At $10 profit a sign up that's 160 sign ups, increase of 16%, will it perform that well? sites with 10,000 members only need an increase of 1.6%.

Which is an added benefit for those who can afford it. It keeps out the little man.
More insults. As you reached the wrong conclusions about what I'm posting, you don't have the right to say I have no idea.

The shame is people don't tell me what it's like today, except those who tell everyone it's getting tougher. And there's a lot who tell that.

You think inside the box all the time. If people only want the porn, then they can get it for free. And are doing so in increasing numbers.

Thank you for answering it's clear you're reading my posts wrongly. This is in no way going to increase ratios to 1-1, it's wrong to assume that. In fact I have said it's out of the reach of most sites and only for the elite. Maybe I'm dreaming there's an elite who could afford it. How many sites have a 10,000 recurring membership? The way so many talk I would of thought quite a few.

It's so obvious that principle ideas have to be adapted to each individual site, not right for every surfer or every site could afford it. I felt I didn't need to say it. I was wrong.

Thank you for replying.

As you've been around 20 years, you'll know how well magazines paid shooters. The competition to get in was fierce. If we submitted a set with the same shot repeated over and over again, it was thrown back at us. There's simply no need to repeat the same pose over and over again, even a picture of a pussy, how many times do you need to look at it? When it's the same pose with no pussy, you know the shooter isn't working properly.

Another elementary mistake is framing of wide screen video. Shooters are shooting girls standing, sitting or kneeling too much in wide screen format. The result is a scene which is often 50% to 70% the room. They need to shoot more her in the positions best suited for Wide Screen framing, laying, on all fours or on her side.

Also screens today are wide. Many shooters still shoot in portrait mode. Not right.

That's simply out side most sites budgets. The want to pay $300 to $500 for a solo girl scene. This is why so many sites fail to retain. They don't spend the money Met Art do.

Fighting is fine, we need to also compete with it.

It's another good reason to sign up and stay signed up.

Many. Ever seen a mosquito? :winkwink:

There are some pretty good guides.

Pay peanuts you get monkeys is the one that applies best here.

The secrets are written everywhere. Cozy Frog is just one place to find lots of advice. Loads of articles on how to push traffic, and get the most out of it. That's why there are 1,000s of people pushing it around in adult.

Here's a rule that applies most of the time.

The easier traffic is to get, the harder it is to get the surfers to buy.

Unless you have one of the elite sites with great content and a good tour. Then affiliates are falling over themselves to send traffic. That's how they make money. :thumbsup

If you look closely at the signatures, you'll find they are only affiliates trying to earn a crust by getting other affiliates to sign up off their link. That's assuming they have a signature. Or anything to put into it.

How can you say there needs to be a variety of poses and then say more poses should be of a horizontal nature to fill a wide screen format?

The reason some shoot portrait mode is to eliminate the wasted space you pointed out as being 50% to 70% of the room.

Your points seem to be contradictory.

Yes, I'd call paul a lying cunt all day long to his face, if I could ever be bothered to spend a few seconds with him.

Agree with the rest of your post, just bear in mind paul is one of the ones making 500 a month from online porn - probably less, in fact. It's a shame you've come to the conclusions of 'pussy group behaviour' and 'coward crap' without being aware of the facts, but hey ho, whatever :thumbsup

EukerVoorn why do you think literally everyone disagrees with paul? think about it.

Has anyone met this EukerVoorn? Anyone vouch for him? Is it possible Paul has worked out proxies and made himself a little sock puppet account?

:)