If you listened to the Republitards you would have thought the stimulus plan was a failure. Go figure...

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...40666118_n.jpg

leaving the gold standard, I don't really know if that made is worse or not, I just remembered a president thats only course of action was a price freeze to control run away inflation and a bunch of prisoners in Iran that were helpless while I was doing circles in the Indian ocean hoping to blow something up. That was just bad leadership, the guy just didn't have the balls to be our leader. Reagan dealt with shit and foreign leaders knew it. They didn't fuck with him. He also worked with the democrats to keep Social Security solvent all these years. How can you say it was his policy, he didn't wait for it to go away, he dealt with it.

Jimmy Carter started the Dept of Energy to deal with what you said about OPEC which now has a annual budget of 26 billion dollars because of all the subsidies they give out like the 737 million dollars they gave to that solar panel company that went tit's up. Yeah that was a BRILLIANT FUCKING MOVE.

You are looking at this as a my side against your side thing, which is what Obama only has left, which just shows what a lame leader he is.

So exactly why is the unemployment rate still at 9% then? Or is it you that is the TARD?

First, let me ask you this question: Do you believe the chart that I posted is accurate?

This is a Yes or No question.

I'm sure any thinking makes you tired

How stupid a statement is that? You assume no one else can do it? Who else bidded on it to compare the china bid to get the $400 Million difference?

yeah lets talk about how U.S. fabricators had the capacity and the capability to do the work but argued that the project would take more time than the Chinese were proposing in their bid. Then comment on how The Chinese have not been able to meet their own timetable, and the bridge is actually being built on the schedule originally proposed by the American fabricators. The first delivery of Chinese steel was more than a year late and the whole project is three years behind schedule and $5.2 billion over budget according to information provided by the National Steel Bridge Alliance?. So it looks like the Chinese low-balled their proposal in order to get the bid and then more than ate up the presumed savings by failing to meet their own timetable

then let's talk about how we sent 250 public and private workers to China to provide training on tax payers expense.

or we could talk about how The steel producers and fabricators in China don't even come close to meeting California's own green environmental standards? the bridge deal is shifting production from relatively green U.S. producers operating under California's tough environmental standards to brown Chinese producers whose work on the bridge is adding to the pollution of California air. In effect, the state is conniving to violate its own environmental standards in order to achieve savings that were never realistic and that have not only evaporated but become cost overruns
Sickens me how special interests got in there.

I believe it doesnt tell the whole story, do you believe that 17% of the US populataion is either unemployed or under employed?

Do you believe in the Easter bunny?

Well it's not stupid when you keep assuming things.... it says others bid on it and they won, it doesn't give a list of who.

I couldn't find anything that actually backed up your claims. I did find that China was late because some parts were replaced, however they are still on time for the project. I didn't find anything that showed China was over budget for the quote they gave or that they've asked for money more. So if it has a budget issue, it's not from them. I did find that the Canadian company doing the wires is over budget by 4 million. Everything else I found with actual info, showed they project to be under budget overall.


Also looks like NY and other States have turned to China to build bridges, railways, etc...


Yep, plenty of reasons why it's cheaper, environmental standards being one of probably a few hundred.

Carter installed solar panels on the White House while he was in office. Reagan ripped them down the second he got in.

There is a reason intelligent people are labeled progressive - they are the antithesis of Oil-Owned GOP assholes, who never seem to offer up ANY future vision.

I am happy and proud to be called a Liberal Progressive. :thumbsup

The original bid was made in 1996 for 1.6 billion, the budget now is for over 7 billion, I'm sure you can at least look that up, so 15 years later and almost 6 billions dollars more, you're going to say it's under budget and on time, REALLY?

I'm done, if your argument is that your Google illiterate and press on that having the Chinese be the builders of the US infrastructure, then you have nothing of any importance to say anymore.

http://motherjones.com/mojo/2009/12/...-your-children

http://sfpublicpress.org/news/2009-1...ecedented-cost

http://www.americanmanufacturing.org...rms-california

I thought those bush tax cuts were supposed to create jobs?

You do realize that republicans are ANTI porn right?

It looks like the State is over budget, not China... as sfpublicpress points out, and notice it doesn't say China. I can't seem to find anything that shows China is the reason for the budget issues.

"Why the price has skyrocketed is a tale of politics, bureaucratic bumbling, and unforeseen construction problems?all classic ingredients of California public works projects. It is a tale of obscure but powerful agencies, legislative bickering, and four successive governors grappling with a project so massive and complex that one consultant suggested the human mind might be unable to grasp, or accept, ?the magnitude of the undertaking and the time and resources required to complete it.?"


As well, I thought your argument was about giving the contract to Americans for jobs? That was what started this rant of yours.... but wasn't the unemployment rate in Cali in 06 like 5%?

That kinda kills your argument all together.

I'm looking at this as objectively as possible. He peacefully negotiated the release of the hostages in Iran, which is as good an outcome as anyone can hope for. Maybe not the outcome you would've liked because you were hoping for a chance to see some action in the Navy, but i'm sure you will reluctantly agree that overall it was the best outcome for the situation we could hope for.


Reagan and every president after him have chose to ignore the problem of our dependence on foreign oil, which is a direct cause of the war on terror(along with our unilateral support for Israel, a debate for another time).

No, it was saying we couldn't do the job, your arguement never held water

And you saying that the cost overruns were our fault, which proves that the $400 million they said we would save was bull shit

NO foreign country should ever do military contract or infrastructure contracts in the US. Especially if they have an unfair advantage with labor costs and enviromental rules. and we have to build the facilities for them to achieve the deal

Yeah 5%, right before the democratics took control of the house and senate

Again, no president can make everybody happy because everybody has a different agenda, I got to blow somkthing up, but that was training a year later. I didn't want to go to war with anyone.

Reagan used the dependence for oil to bankrupt the USSR. and I agree about Israel, Too much of our resources was given to them. I've seen where water can be separated into hydrogen and Oxygen and have always wondered why we don't have cars that run on water. And I remember VW deisel's getting close to 50 mpg in the 80's and had to cough when I saw hybrids getting 35 and being proud it.

That's a different argument... other than bringing it up just above, this is the first time you've made any actual argument about who should be working on our infrastructure.

In your first reply back to me about Arnold, you said the statement below. You also brought it up several times. I can only keep up with so many twists.


Wow, I had no idea the Dems were responsible for the 08 crash, I'm sure fox news would love to run your story. They shouldn't have any issues spinning the previous Republican controlled years, all that bank fraud and mortgage scams, and hell the entire crash itself, because that can all easily be spun onto Obama.

I posted what the article said... you argued it, while really proving nothing and getting a ton of information wrong and corrected along the way.


No, the article you are posting says it's our fault, not me. And no... that's China's contact bid differences that was saved on, not the overall project which has costs outside of China's cost. You're confusing the two.

That was always implied, sorry you don't understand that
No twists, we should never let jobs like that to China, sorry you can't keep up

Like always, please read before posting, I never said they were responsible, it just happened to be a lot better for unemployment before the dems got power, thats a fact, go ahead and debate that

You would like to think that, but no, I argues that we could do it, you said we couldn't , you were wrong. We sent over 200 people over there to teach them how to do it

You are the one confusing them, where's the link to prove they saved money, this I have to see.

If it was really an infrastructure job, I would agree... but it's a section of a bridge being built in China and added to the infrastructure by Americans.

I'm all up for keeping my taxes lower, if they can contract out parts to whoever can do it at the lowest cost, yet do it right... then I'm all for that. Unless you're up for raising the living crap out of your taxes, to pay for such projects at our costs, expand that across the country... and yeah, that's going to be expensive.


Lol... I was being sarcastic, more because you added in some off topic lame twist, but then this... lol.

You know, I'll reply. I agree... mid-terms are so, nothing though. The real response is when Obama came in. Now this is a fact, go ahead and debate it if you like, but after Obama came into power one of the largest economic drops in history stopped.

Lol


Ok fine, some american company can build bridges. However, none of them appear to be able to do it for less than other Countries, like Canada... let alone China. So for some reason, maybe like, we don't really have someone that can do it at that scale, kinda like the article suggested - but hey, you know the reasons, it wasn't like the guy was working on the project or anything, I forgot a website is proof these days.


I didn't say they saved money, I said china's bid differences, which is the $400m. And as the article, you posted, says... the problems with the blown out budget are on the American side of things.



And don't hate China too much... think about it, YOU are putting American workers out of job by using chips within your pc that are made in China, that should be built here in America by Americans. And, our Gov uses those same chips, so really those kind of jobs should stay here, security wise.... no worries, like Cali we can just get the gov to just print more money to pay for it all.

I think the "Job" creators are all working on a new version of Steve Jobs so they can sell useless shit to people who don't actually need it.

You iTunes don't cry over your loss. The music already died once on February 3, 1959.

Yeah, Bust Them Damn Unions
 

Regan, busted the Air Traffic Controllers Union (AFTC). 30 years later, the AFTC works with computers from the 60's, fall asleep, because they do swing shifts. Swing shifts are the worst on a human body & mind. Use 1 person at night on airports that need at least 3 on staff. Let's hear it for less Govt. & busting unions. Makes me feel safer when I fly, knowing the AFTC was busted.
Vote Ron Paul, do away with FDIC! Let banker's loot our accounts, and we lose our money.How fucking stupid can you be?? That's why they call it insurance.

I believe 12clicks point was (as he's made it a number of times in various threads) that any successful business owner is going to run their business based on their needs, and what is best for their business. Not just because Washington tells them to.

If they do not need more staff, based on demand for their product (i.e. health of the economy), they are not going to hire more people. If you want to give them tax breaks, or incentives to hire veterans, they 'may' do so as long as that money is covering them. However, once the government handout goes away, so does that job.

In short, the hiring and firing is directly tied to the demand for that business owner's product, as well as the health and stability of the economy. If the economy is shaky, and the business owner feels he is just having a 'good month' versus steady growth, s/he is not going to expand or hire.

Everything comes back to the demand for their product(s) and health of the economy on the whole. Not a few incentives here or there trying to FORCE businesses to do one thing or another to prop up some government statistics.

soooooo democrats are PRO porn?

grow up son.

you mean the obama extension of the Bush tax cuts. They were. did they?
looks like BF3TF has a chart showing they did.
You want to cancel ALL of the obama extensions of the tax cuts, do it. You'll guarantee a republican in the white house.


oh, you just meant to eliminate the tax cuts for just your betters.
I see. my bad. you're one of the rabble. I didn't realize.

A bridge isn't infrastructure?

Transportation infrastructureRoad and highway networks, including structures (bridges, tunnels, culverts, retaining walls), signage and markings, electrical systems (street lighting and traffic lights), edge treatments (curbs, sidewalks, landscaping), and specialized facilities such as road maintenance depots and rest areas
Mass transit systems (Commuter rail systems, subways, tramways, trolleys and bus transportation)
Railways, including structures, terminal facilities (rail yards, train stations), level crossings, signalling and communications systems
Canals and navigable waterways requiring continuous maintenance (dredging, etc)
Seaports and lighthouses
Airports, including air navigational systems
Bicycle paths and pedestrian walkways
Ferries

Money leaving the country for what we can do in this country is still money leaving the country. Money staying in the country is money in our economy
You mean it hit bottom and stayed there thru out his presidency

It's what ironworker's do, not a website and as far as cost, the money stays in the us is better for the economy

Part of that blow up was us building those buildings for them that that guy said we didn't have and teaching them how to do welds properly. I was structurally certified to weld in LA county years ago, you really want some guy welding the bridge you carry your kids over a bridge in that made $12 a day?
Actually,
Samsung has a plant in upper New York making chips.
Amd is in Malta New York
Intel is in Chandler Arizona
And there are many more

So telling me I'm putting workers out of work for using chips made somewhere else? Lame as usual!!!

I wondered where you kept your brain, thanks for clearing that up

Safe and sound. :)

So everyone's income has been steadily growing in our country for 3 decades.
That is exactly what I have seen with my own two eyes (I turned 18 in 1979)

And as would be expected..."rich" people who had EXTRA money to invest, got richer exponentially as opposed to a "middle class" guy who spends most of his money paying his bills and family vacations and putting the kids through college.

Why is this a mystery to you? Of COURSE the Kennedy's are going to get MUCH MUCH RICHER...they have the millions to invest in a big portfolio. Whereas an average guy is investing in his car, or his home, or a new stereo, etc.

It's infrastructure once it's here... at that, China isn't building the entire bridge. Canada is making the wires, Switzerland the bolts, and even American corps are on it too.

The bridge was started when the economy/jobs was fine... and the State was still bankrupt. If the costs are that bloated with China added in, only a fool would think it would help our economy to spend billions more.


No, it hit bottom under Bush, was passed to Obama, and then improved under Obama. Your hate blinds you as usual.


Over spending is not a solution that helps the economy.


No blow up.... teaching them to do it to our standard is logical, and yes I'm fine with it. If I wasn't I would need to stop driving my car, many parts in our cars are manufactured in China.


WTF lame shit is this? Pickup a computer board and look at the stamp on the chips.... fuck only you would try to say otherwise when every god damn American knows different.

I think the issue is the idea of the 1%.... the problem is it includes the working rich, which aren't rich.

400 people in this Country control the majority of the money, estimates range between 50-70% of ALL money in America. They are the .1%.

In 95 these 400 earned on average just over 40 BILLION a year!

In 2008 they went over 150 BILLION a year!

In that same period of time, the tax rate for the top 400 went down just under 40%.



The 1% in those charts are wrong simply because the working wealthy are just a fraction of the total, they increased only slightly as well, while a very tiny group of people grew wayyyyyy off the chart and paid far less taxes, than me or you.

And the did it with 'your' money too... if they weren't allowed to do what they do, you would have more of YOUR money.

In 08 we could have lost 50k jobs in a month and still had a 7% unemployment rate because overall we had more jobs to shed. Today, if we lose 50k jobs and get 55k jobs back, we grew 5k jobs.

We have slowly been adding jobs, which is why the unemployment rate has slowly been going down.

I hope that clears up your confusion.

The jobs have gone overseas. Exported their by big business owners.

With them went money.

Welcome to the shit hitting the fan 2011 style.

It's like when Pirate sites steal all our customers by giving away our stolen content for free. So they can earn a few bucks with ads from those who support them.

http://www.flirt4free.com/live/girls/?mp_code=a6s9h

From http://www.intporn.com/forums/

Maybe part of the 17% are pornographers put out of business by the scum who support these sites.

F5 to see the banner.

Not Vendzillas fault, it's a rogue affiliate. Again :1orglaugh

Or people are falling off the unemployment insurance after two years, but again, the rate is still at 9.1%
Hope that clears up your confusion

Buying stuff made by the rich guys. All worked nicely until the rich guys decided to get the cars and stereos made overseas. ?Then fewer had money to buy houses, so building them was hit.

We've all been living on borrowed money for too long. The trillions borrowed flowed into everyones pockets. Looked great for a while.

Thinking the rich will rescue us all. Is the second crazy thing I heard today. Make it the third.

First is any of you thinking you have a clue of a solution.
Second was the same on B&B
Third was people thinking the rich will rescue us.

When you add more jobs each month than jobs lost, thats growth.... the unemployment rate is a reflection of that, not the twists in your head.

Thats a pretty lame excuse, it's a bridge, it's built in china and assembled here
So you finally believe that the stimulus was the wrong idea?
It was said that the Stimulus had to be passed to keep the unemployment level from hitting 8%, when was the last time the unemployment rate was above 8%?


make up your mind, you keep saying the stimulus worked?

So you're going to accept a bid from someone that can't do the job, thats pretty stupid !


Everyone knows except you that most Japanese cars in America are built here, don't get pissy because you are ignorant of that.
And yes a lot of those chips you talk about are made in the US. The plants are being built all over the US and developed in clean rooms in California, I've been in one, pretty cool, but a bitch to drill a hole in to mount something

What part of it's at 9.1% don't you undertstand?

Our benchmark results suggest that the ARRA created/saved approximately 450 thousand state and local government jobs and destroyed/forestalled roughly one million private sector jobs. State and local government jobs were saved because ARRA funds were largely used to offset state revenue shortfalls and Medicaid increases rather than boost private sector employment. The majority of destroyed/forestalled jobs were in growth industries including health, education, professional and business services.

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archive.../05/029042.php

The entire thing is not built in China.


Nope, because my kids need teachers and schools, that my tax dollars already fucking paid for....


So?



It did....


Are you suggesting the billions spent on the bridge so far is like a stimulus bill? Because that would be something to laugh about.


Looks like they are doing the job... It's rather common for cross training to happen, even in corporations.




You and the lame twists.... and cool, you think Japanese cars are built here.

And yes, we know we build a little bit of everything.


As I said though, our gov and YOU use computer chips made in China, and your phone, your tv, etc, etc, etc... so as I said, related to your "security" issue, if the bridge is an issue, then your PC would be too.

If you wish to keep twisting that your pc is made here, then be my guest, I need something to laugh at.

I understand that it's down... something you ignore. I understand it can be 9.1% or even 50% and adding jobs, and still adding jobs!

At that, if I wanted the employment rate down, i would probably start with "adding jobs!!!!!!"

I know, I know, it's shocking!

You keep saying we are gaiing jobs, then why is the unemployment rate still at 9.1% I understand it, why don't you?
It's because people are falling off unemployment after 2 years

You must be kidding me.....

If the unemployment rate peaked at 10.1% and last year was average 9.6%, and this year the average is 9.0%.... hello, that's a decline, over time. It's not because some 2 year falling off bullshit, the rate didn't just drop, it's been dropping, for 2+ years now.

And that's because we have been adding jobs to the economy.

So what % is acceoptable to you?
You were the one that said only a fool would believe....... FOOL

You said it hit bottom during Bush, weren't there yet, that's the comparision, try to keep up

but you said only a fool would think it would help our economy to spend billions more.

I didn't, you said it....only a fool would think it would help our economy to spend billions more..

when you make a bid on a job, it's because you can do it


Nissan has been making cars here since 1960
Nissan has three production plants in the United States - in Smyrna and Decherd, Tennessee, and Canton, Mississippi. Production at Nissan's Smyrna Plant began in June 1983. The vehicle assembly plant has an annual production capacity of 550,000 vehicles and represents a capital investment of $2.5 billion. The plant produces the Nissan Altima, Nissan Maxima, Nissan Xterra, Nissan Frontier and Nissan Pathfinder.

I'm sorry you didn't know that, most all japanese car companies have plants here, if you have ever been to Japan, you would know they don't have the room


You said all chips were made in China, I told you of a few that aren't, don't spin that anyother way, pull your panties out of your ass and accept that

Not when people are falling off the unemplyment insurance roles after two years it's not

Here is the reality: http://www.ncsl.org/?tabid=13307

Unemployment was at 7.6 when Obama took office (and on it's way up) It pegged out at 10.2 in Oct. of 2009 (when Obama was wasting time on Health Care)

It dropped down a percentage point and has hovered there ever since...except when he gives a speech. For some reason everytime he gives a speech the economy dips.

Obama has definitely had some time to at least give the appearance that he is doing something. But for whatever reasons...myself and millions of people and even some of the more liberal "news" reporters on CNN (like John King) are even admitting they are disappointed in his lack of leadership.

// bad joke