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-   -   At what point do profits become "greed"? (https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=1057288)

Cherry7 02-13-2012 05:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xenigo (Post 18755877)
I'm not forced to do anything, actually. I work to satisfy myself. And I demand a million dollar salary, because that's what I choose to pay myself.

Are you going to tell me I'm not worthy of reaping the reward for working that hard?

And if not, how much less hard should I be working?

I'll be awaiting your reply. I want to know how much less hard I need to be working to achieve the goals you have for me.

It is not a matter of personal morality. We can say that a society working together has an average wage. The people earning less are being underpaid and those more overpaid. Some of this will reflect that some are lazy, unproductive, stupid or talented, hard working etc... but if a person is taking more than 10 times the average wage we can assume they are being paid more than they are creating due to their specific position in society.

What you do with the excess money is also important, and whether you support people who fight for a better more just society

u-Bob 02-13-2012 06:09 AM

Huge profits serve society as a whole. Supply & Demand 101
 
Human are not perfect all knowing beings. No, they are imperfect. They do not know everything that goes on in the world. They do not know what other people are thinking. They do not know exactly how much of certain resource is available right now or will be available 5 days or 10 months from now. They do not know exactly how much of a certain product people will be buying next month. They don't know exactly how many visitors their websites will get. etc.

Every entrepreneurial activity (every investment of saved resources) is by definition speculative. To reduce risks, people gather information and to the best of their ability try to analyze that information.

Let's say your company produces product A and another company produces a totally different product B. Your company is the only one on the market that sells product A (or anything even remotely similar). People like product A and you (being the only one selling it) charge a high price for it and as a result you make a huge profit. The company that produces product B however has very few customers and looses money.

Is this good? Yes it is. Prices mean something, they have a "signal function" in the market economy. The fact that you can charge a high price for product A and that people value product A enough to pay that price for it sends a message to other actors (entrepreneurs) in the market economy. They too will want to make a huge profit and will start producing products that are similar to product A (products that perform the same function or some of the same functions or solve the problems that product A solves in an alternative way). The result is that supply of product A goes up and prices come down. Society as a whole benefits from this because now more people will be able to buy product A and they'll be able to buy it at a lower price. Society also benefits in other ways: no one in his right mind will start investing his resources in producing a product like product B because they now already now that people weren't interested in that product.

Prices help distribute/ration resources that are already available.
Example: Let's say a copper mine in Brazil collapses during an earthquake. The total amount of copper available decreases. The price of copper goes up. Every company around the world that uses copper in the production of whatever it is they are producing now knows there's less copper available and they can adjust their production accordingly.

The most important purpose that prices serve whoever is in the coordination of the future rationing of resources. As I've shown in my product A vs product B example, it's is because a company was able to make a huge profit selling product A, that other actors in the market were able to figure out what the public wanted.

pimpmaster9000 02-13-2012 07:24 AM

What it comes down to is natural selection. I come from an 3rd world shit hole and I still make money.

Bill Gates or Rupert Murdoch or any other billionaire have ZERO influence on my ability to make money.

In fact, Bill Gatses Windows helps me make money. He also employs 90.000 people world wide.

Bottom line: How ever the rich made their money has nothing to do with you. If you don't have money its probably because you are a stupid and lazy shit. Even if you are not, the root of your bad luck does not lie in other peoples success.

u-Bob 02-13-2012 07:48 AM

/whoever/however/

12clicks 02-13-2012 07:55 AM

profits become greed when those who did not produce anything greedily want to take the profits of another.

pornguy 02-13-2012 08:51 AM

Stealing content and greed having nothing to do with one another.

Talking about the greed of the producer of the content is the subconscious method of justifying the theft.

helterskelter808 02-13-2012 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSquealer (Post 18755927)
I speed. I do not have the legal right to speed. What rights I have and do not have are in our founding documents and are codified, defined and/or restricted by law. Speeding does not mean I believe I have the right to do so. I can break the law without believing I am right to break the law or that the law doesn't apply to me.

Okay, you have to be trolling. In case you're not, let's try again:

The very fact that you deliberately break the law demonstrates that you do not believe the law applies to you.

Quote:

I certainly can't argue that I have the legal right to do something illegal as your pea brain seems to be suggesting, being that its such an obvious contradiction.
Please. Get someone to explain to you the difference between RIGHTS and LEGAL RIGHTS.

Quote:

"Rights" are not some abstract idea on a sliding scale that you adjust to suit your wants and whims that day... or depending on what movies are released that weekend and whether you wish to pay 4.00 for the matinee or 9.00 for the evening.
It's quite apparent you have no idea what "rights" are, or can be, and think the only valid, or existent, rights are the ones that are bestowed (and can be 'un-bestowed') by lawmakers. Oh, except when, by want and whim, you decide you have the right to ignore such laws. And given that you believe you have the right to break the law, as evidenced by you breaking the law, I'm not sure what the fuck you are even arguing about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by crucifissio (Post 18756144)
If you don't have money its probably because you are a stupid and lazy shit.

Says the man living in a third world shithole.

NinjaSword 02-13-2012 10:04 AM

I think the time has come where the internet functions as a global telepathy network .. and no government should limit or restrict it in any way.....

most of the fuzz is only about entertainment ..

so .. if u cant protect your shit properly - its your own fault!
you are allowing the piracy in the first place.. and u want the government to help u?.. by restricting internet freedom?

CarlosTheGaucho 02-13-2012 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSquealer (Post 18755927)
Ok, you've gone past reason and are now free falling into desperate and pathetic with each new reply.

I speed. I do not have the legal right to speed. What rights I have and do not have are in our founding documents and are codified, defined and/or restricted by law. Speeding does not mean I believe I have the right to do so. I can break the law without believing I am right to break the law or that the law doesn't apply to me. I certainly can't argue that I have the legal right to do something illegal as your pea brain seems to be suggesting, being that its such an obvious contradiction.

"Rights" are not some abstract idea on a sliding scale that you adjust to suit your wants and whims that day... or depending on what movies are released that weekend and whether you wish to pay 4.00 for the matinee or 9.00 for the evening.

You have no legal right to illegally copy the work of another. One would think that to be self evident given the fact that you know its illegal. Doesn't seem like a complex concept to wrap ones mind around.. yet you just can't seem to.

Anyway, this is why I post less and less here. Too many idiots. Too little time. Too much work to do.

:2 cents:

Some argumentation over here is indeed beyond pathetic.

Btw. PP is there a way to contact you?

I would like to ask something, am available on any of the contacts below.

Paul Markham 02-13-2012 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherry7 (Post 18755845)
Less time writing about what you don't know about here and more reading would do you a lot of good.

You have never read any Marx. Marx lived in poverty most of his life.

The communist countries played by different rules....

They aimed to feed, clothe and house everybody. They gave everybody access to health care and schools. I provided jobs for everyone. These societies were some of the poorest and least developed but if you compare them to equivalent capitalist countries you can see better.
Compare Communist Cuba with Dominican Republic or Haiti
Communist Poland with Brazil


Capitalism is only interested in people with money. If you have no money you are free to die.

Quote:

Karl Heinrich Marx (5 May 1818 ? 14 March 1883) was a German philosopher, economist, sociologist, historian, journalist, and revolutionary socialist. His ideas played a significant role in the development of social science and the socialist political movement. He published various books during his lifetime, with the most notable being The Communist Manifesto (1848) and Capital (1867?1894); some of his works were co-written with his friend, the fellow German revolutionary socialist Friedrich Engels.[3]

Born into a wealthy middle class family in Trier, formerly in Prussian Rhineland now called Rhineland-Palatinate, Marx studied at both the University of Bonn and the University of Berlin, where he became interested in the philosophical ideas of the Young Hegelians. In 1836, he became engaged to Jenny von Westphalen, marrying her in 1843. After his studies, he wrote for a radical newspaper in Cologne, and began to work out his theory of dialectical materialism. Moving to Paris in 1843, he began writing for other radical newspapers. He met Engels in Paris, and the two men worked together on a series of books. Exiled to Brussels, he became a leading figure of the Communist League, before moving back to Cologne, where he founded his own newspaper. In 1849 he was exiled again and moved to London together with his wife and children. In London, where the family was reduced to poverty, Marx continued writing and formulating his theories about the nature of society and how he believed it could be improved, as well as campaigning for socialism and becoming a significant figure in the International Workingmen's Association.
It seems he chose poverty. He got kicked out of places that didn't like his message. Then his downward spiral started. Are you saying he should of been kept by the system he was trying to change?

Yes the rules the Communist Countries played by, had to be backed up by tanks. So you think people not having the right to vote, to protest, to complain against the Government is right?

The health care here during Communism was sure free, not much good. But it was free. Same with the schools. As for jobs, yes if you wanted to get a wage that was barely enough to feed your family on.

Since Capitalism took over in Czech living standards, wages and life have improved out of all expectations of people 30 years ago. While they were ruled by Communists backed up by tanks. The communist system kept these countries poor. They weren't before WW2. they became poor under Communism.

Compare Cuba with it's neighbor Florida.

Brazil has one of the fastest growing economies in the world.

Capitalism isn't perfect. It has a lot of flaws. Communism has more, because true Communism cant exist. It needs people at the top and they will run it as they think it should be run. Which usually means them ending up in a mansion and getting fat, while the workers get the scrapes.

Don't compare broken countries with broken countries that without the money coming from the rich ones would be in a worse state. figure out why a few people at the top drive big cars and have huge mansions and the rest walk and live in huts. It's the same problem, the people at the top look after themselves first. You dislike fat cat businessmen, yet accept fat cat Communists.

Paul Markham 02-13-2012 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWB (Post 18755882)
As soon as the USA gets its paws on Cuba, and it will happen eventually, it will go the way of those other two shit holes. Then lets see how everything works out for the Cuban people.

Cuba's biggest problem and reason for poverty is the US. After Castro took over the US played hard ball and the only place they could get support was the USSR. The Cuban Missile Crisis was of the US's stupidity. Don't make an enemy of people 100 miles off your shore and don't leave them with only one alternative, your then enemy.

All the US had to do after the people chose Castro was to keep buying the goods they had been buying under the previous corrupt leadership. America has a habit of backing losers, then getting upset when the winners turn their back on them. Vietnam, Iraq, Iran, S. American countries, etc. Did anyone mention Afghanistan? :(

Cherry7 02-14-2012 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham (Post 18756589)
It seems he chose poverty. He got kicked out of places that didn't like his message. Then his downward spiral started. Are you saying he should of been kept by the system he was trying to change?

Yes the rules the Communist Countries played by, had to be backed up by tanks. So you think people not having the right to vote, to protest, to complain against the Government is right?

The health care here during Communism was sure free, not much good. But it was free. Same with the schools. As for jobs, yes if you wanted to get a wage that was barely enough to feed your family on.

Since Capitalism took over in Czech living standards, wages and life have improved out of all expectations of people 30 years ago. While they were ruled by Communists backed up by tanks. The communist system kept these countries poor. They weren't before WW2. they became poor under Communism.

Compare Cuba with it's neighbor Florida.

Brazil has one of the fastest growing economies in the world.

Capitalism isn't perfect. It has a lot of flaws. Communism has more, because true Communism cant exist. It needs people at the top and they will run it as they think it should be run. Which usually means them ending up in a mansion and getting fat, while the workers get the scrapes.

Don't compare broken countries with broken countries that without the money coming from the rich ones would be in a worse state. figure out why a few people at the top drive big cars and have huge mansions and the rest walk and live in huts. It's the same problem, the people at the top look after themselves first. You dislike fat cat businessmen, yet accept fat cat Communists.

Do you remember what you write?

You said K Marx was rich, I pointed out to you the fact that he was poor, you go off on his parents, what his opinions were....

All State power is backed up by force, the police and then the tanks...

What do you know about health care during Communist times ? Where is your evidence?

Cuba health care gets better results than USA.

Poland / Brazil when Poland was communist. Poland would be the country to live in, free education, health care, full employment and housing ... Brazil children eating out of the garbage.

NY Times about Czech...

Analysts say the Communist Party is benefiting from a regionwide disappointment over the failure of liberal parties to live up to the promises of 1989

Yes under communism I queued for bananas under capitalism I queued for a job

pimpmaster9000 02-14-2012 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by helterskelter808 (Post 18756344)
Says the man living in a third world shithole.

Kid, you know the difference between me and you? Except for my 3 digit and your 2 digit IQ? I get to spend more and more of my time with naked girls, fucking them and making money...

You get to spend more and more of your time "format shifting" what people like me do to your hard drive. Way to go kid! The best advice I can give you is to buy some oil and cleenex so that you are well equipped for your future profession :1orglaugh

Natural selection.

helterskelter808 02-15-2012 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crucifissio (Post 18759173)
Kid, you know the difference between me and you? Except for my 3 digit and your 2 digit IQ? I get to spend more and more of my time with naked girls, fucking them and making money...

You get to spend more and more of your time "format shifting" what people like me do to your hard drive. Way to go kid! The best advice I can give you is to buy some oil and cleenex so that you are well equipped for your future profession :1orglaugh

Natural selection.

Says the man living in a third world shithole.

Paul Markham 02-15-2012 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherry7 (Post 18759081)
Do you remember what you write?

You said K Marx was rich, I pointed out to you the fact that he was poor, you go off on his parents, what his opinions were....

He was rich and came from a rich middle class family which allowed him the benefits of his standing in society and his education. He lost it all because of his views.

Quote:

All State power is backed up by force, the police and then the tanks...
Yes but the Communist ones seem more likely to use them and shoot people.

Quote:

What do you know about health care during Communist times ? Where is your evidence?
I live in a country ruined by communism, was treated in hospitals built under communism, you live and get health care where?

Quote:

Cuba health care gets better results than USA.
And the US has a better life expectancy than N. Korea. so your point is? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ife_expectancy Go find a communist country in the top 30. In fact over all it shows in communist countries people have a pretty poor life expectancy.

Quote:

Poland / Brazil when Poland was communist. Poland would be the country to live in, free education, health care, full employment and housing ... Brazil children eating out of the garbage.
In Czech where I can talk of from experience people lined up for bananas once a year at Xmas, for bread all the time. If they saw a van pull up outside a shop, they stopped work and got in the line, without knowing what was being delivered. So what has made Poland a better place to live in today than under the Communists, backed by tanks on the street?

The number of factories that have gone there and opened up. Factories run by Capitalists. Same goes for Hungary and Czech. If Poland and Eastern Europe was such a great place to live Explain this.

Iron Curtain.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ublic_2007.jpg

Berlin Wall

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...linermauer.jpg

People were willing to risk death to get out.

Quote:

NY Times about Czech...

Analysts say the Communist Party is benefiting from a regionwide disappointment over the failure of liberal parties to live up to the promises of 1989

Yes under communism I queued for bananas under capitalism I queued for a job
And the Czechs and you have the opportunity to change the Government. Or even change the system. Yes a few old people who were in the party or benefited from the party are wishing it would all come back. The chances of the Communist getting re elected are about as high as you going to live in China, Cuba, Laos, North Korea, Vietnam. Short list so shouldn't take you long to work out where to live.

The problem is under Capitalism you're a failure for some reason. Maybe because your Socialist Government spent more than the Capitalist could earn, so borrowed the country into debt. Maybe because all those with a job "the workers" won't take the living standards of the people of Poland under Communism. Do you think full employment is possible at $30,000 average a year. Maybe because the Capitalists don't want your sorry ass. Maybe because the system that kept you in a job, is the system you want to bring down. Maybe because they simply don't want an idiot infecting other workers with his stupid ideas, which was Marx problems.

Your problem is simple, delusion. In the real world not enough people will vote in a system where instead of earning $30,000 they will end up earning $10,000. don't nit pick the figures you know exactly what I mean. If you don't your a bigger moron than I thought.

And that's the problem. The vast majority of the workers reject your idiocy. If they didn't they wouldn't risk death on the high seas trying to get out of the places you admire.

Cuba http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariel_boatlift

http://www.miamibeach411.com/ee/imag...-boat-lift.jpg

And they still risk their lives to get out of Cuba and away from your deluded dream.

Paul Markham 02-15-2012 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherry7 (Post 18755934)
It is not a matter of personal morality. We can say that a society working together has an average wage. The people earning less are being underpaid and those more overpaid. Some of this will reflect that some are lazy, unproductive, stupid or talented, hard working etc... but if a person is taking more than 10 times the average wage we can assume they are being paid more than they are creating due to their specific position in society.

What you do with the excess money is also important, and whether you support people who fight for a better more just society

How deluded are you?

Yes a family living off an income of 10 times the average will ensure their children go to the best schools, get the best teachers and do all they can to ensure their children come out with the best education. It's cultural.

Sometimes these cultures are not just related to earnings. Often they're related to Nationality and background. Marks and Spencers was started by a man working all the hours he had to make his shop work. This has been repeated time and time again. Immigrants from certain countries will work very very hard to make sure their children rise above them, Jews from Eastern Europe, Greek Cypriots, Indian, Pakistani and Chinese, immigrants. Here we have a flourishing Vietnamese community who at the moment are first generation working in markets, second will rise to a better level.

They work for their goals. Under Communism the only goal worth working for was being a top Part Official. They got the big cars, houses, best schools, etc. The workers were paid to turn up and be there. They had no fear of losing their jobs. Full employment was a right, remember?

In Cuba a doctor lives on the same level as a road sweeper. Great reason to get an education, work hard, take on extra responsibility. :upsidedow

And that's why your dream is a delusion. It never has, never will and never can work.

jimmycooper 02-15-2012 03:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by u-Bob (Post 18755986)
Human are not perfect all knowing beings. No, they are imperfect. They do not know everything that goes on in the world. They do not know what other people are thinking. They do not know exactly how much of certain resource is available right now or will be available 5 days or 10 months from now. They do not know exactly how much of a certain product people will be buying next month. They don't know exactly how many visitors their websites will get. etc.

Every entrepreneurial activity (every investment of saved resources) is by definition speculative. To reduce risks, people gather information and to the best of their ability try to analyze that information.

Let's say your company produces product A and another company produces a totally different product B. Your company is the only one on the market that sells product A (or anything even remotely similar). People like product A and you (being the only one selling it) charge a high price for it and as a result you make a huge profit. The company that produces product B however has very few customers and looses money.

Is this good? Yes it is. Prices mean something, they have a "signal function" in the market economy. The fact that you can charge a high price for product A and that people value product A enough to pay that price for it sends a message to other actors (entrepreneurs) in the market economy. They too will want to make a huge profit and will start producing products that are similar to product A (products that perform the same function or some of the same functions or solve the problems that product A solves in an alternative way). The result is that supply of product A goes up and prices come down. Society as a whole benefits from this because now more people will be able to buy product A and they'll be able to buy it at a lower price. Society also benefits in other ways: no one in his right mind will start investing his resources in producing a product like product B because they now already now that people weren't interested in that product.

Prices help distribute/ration resources that are already available.
Example: Let's say a copper mine in Brazil collapses during an earthquake. The total amount of copper available decreases. The price of copper goes up. Every company around the world that uses copper in the production of whatever it is they are producing now knows there's less copper available and they can adjust their production accordingly.

The most important purpose that prices serve whoever is in the coordination of the future rationing of resources. As I've shown in my product A vs product B example, it's is because a company was able to make a huge profit selling product A, that other actors in the market were able to figure out what the public wanted.

I've become a bit more Austrian in my thinking over the past year. Funny how that works. :thumbsup

helterskelter808 02-15-2012 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham (Post 18760166)
I live in a country ruined by communism, was treated in hospitals built under communism, you live and get health care where?

His health care, AFAIK, was created by socialism. You know, that thing which had to bail out capitalism?

Quote:

And the US has a better life expectancy than N. Korea. so your point is? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ife_expectancy Go find a communist country in the top 30. In fact over all it shows in communist countries people have a pretty poor life expectancy.
What it shows is that poor countries have lower life expectancy, which is a no-brainer. As is the fact that poor countries, or countries with gross inequality, tend to be where Communism flourishes. So it's no surprise that Communist countries have lower life expectancy.

The real scandal is how low the richest country on the planet is; below Cuba, a country that has been crippled by decades of persecution by the USA.

pimpmaster9000 02-15-2012 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by helterskelter808 (Post 18760081)
Says the man living in a third world shithole.

Its sad that your brain is so poor that it can only afford "Says the man living in a 3rd world shit hole"
Let me rub it in your face some more:

Your ideal in life is to copy my life style to your hard drive instead of doing it for real and making $$$. You are too much of a loser to film your own content AND make money fucking hot women so you are reduced to stealing videos of content producers life style and jerking off to it in your moms house.

Natural selection is when a guy living in a 3rd world shit hole makes money living your dream while you live in the richest country in the world and cant make a buck doing what I do. I can understand your envy towards people who create content and make money from it. Its like walking down the road and key-ing a ferrari ... how sad that with all the great technological wonders and wonderful living conditions in your country at your disposal the best you can do is aspire to be a professional masturbator.

You see my point about natural selection? I do not need to be in a great country like yours, and I do not need to steal videos of other people fucking, nor do I feel the need to blame the rich for being "greedy"...blaming others for what you can't do is a common human fallacy it usually affects the lazy shits and the stupid.

JFK 02-15-2012 11:31 AM

100 greedy bastards:pimp


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