Yes it is, so why did so few sites go this route? I can only think of two reasons couldn't afford it or didn't have a clue.

The couldn't afford it route is probably the most obvious, few sites could pay enough for a model to go exclusive, could afford to spend what other sectors of the porn business were spending for the product.

On the other hand, there's still the idiots who think all you need is a naked girl and a mobile phone to crate porn and make bank. Problem is 100s of other sites can do the same. How many can do what Shap does, how many can do what Met-Art does.

I learned everything from Paul

Well thank you for comparing apples to cows.

Did that site make as much as Twistys, FTV, Met-Art. If you want to compare like with like.

Obviously you're in favor of the system. As a shooter who could never of operated at the better paying levels of porn and would of gone bankrupt long before you or your partner learned how to shoot porn. You had to sell to people buying on on price.So te system was good for you.

Yes Roald it does count. Just compare it with a paysite not a shooter who also put up a site. There are amateur sites that make very good money. but the idea that some guy can pick up a camera and capture the emotion and atmosphere the girls boyfriend will get from a girl who doesn't know him, might not like hi, only there for the money, done it a few times before and doesn't always care if it's good. Is also wrong. It takes more than a camera and naked girl to create good porn.

All it takes to get traffic, is a computer and connection, all it takes to be a designer is a computer and Photoshop, etc. A bit of skill also helps. :thumbsup

This kind of industry has usually a various attitude to buying content compared to having the best. When a few experienced implemented the method the idea does using site visitors, they may be inside a stronger position nowadays.

Acquiring the technique is typically about having the best cost instead of the best item. Instead of provide good photographers whatever they wished to create on their behalf. These people recently purchased A few displays with regard to $1200 in order to $2500. Actually Manwin having to pay $2,500 pertaining to 3 displays isn't going to take on the shooting who are able to promote one particular arena low exclusive regarding $3,Thousand.

Most got people that would not take to the level of the publications. Yes I understand is going on video clip, most mags first person shooters understand how to blast decent video clips. It is not as whenever they acquired the top video clip fps possibly. They got what they covered.

Right now means that concept. Nonetheless if a TGP, Conduit, sample on the website or any other means of visitors. It has an improved chance to getting the particular reader to go through the hysterical. When when the web surfer arrives at web sites the information on the trip will be of a better compared to other internet sites in this area of interest. It has an improved chance involving converting. In the event that as soon as the member can be in the site the content is preferable to some other web sites, storage is lengthier, the chances are the surfer may return.

Consequently Nicky with just your own traffic along with squeeze page. You might turn 10% 0r 50% greater. You could possibly maintain 10% 0r 50% better. Not just a person, but many affiliate marketers mailing people to that site.

Any person received any concept concerning poor written content converting along with holding onto superior to excellent?

And also make sure you, bad inside "Penthouse or even Playboy" type.

And OP this is the reason the particular trolls along with losers detest us. They do not use a rational reply.

What's funny is how few views they have. Even after all this time.

My wolf shirt cured my aids.


:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

there's a place in porn for amateur work, always has been and always will be. We made a lot of money from it and I started out shooting it. Astral Blue could never be called "professional glam". :1orglaugh

Still it takes more than a girl and a camera to shoot good amateur porn. It needs someone who can generate the same emotions, athmosphere and performance from a paid model who's often a stranger. That a partner would generate. Or even the same emotions, athmosphere and performance from a paid model pretending to be shooting it for her BF.

If a shooter can do that, his content rises to the next level.

Where there's less competition. Because as you say you don't need anything else, like all the rest scrambling to get a slice of the same market. The higher you go the less the competition. smaller market maybe, but more customers per supplier = more $$$$

Assuming you can reach that level. and here's the real problem. Very few could. Which was great for those who did. :thumbsup

Yes they do seem to have single track outlooks. Usually coming up with abuse or stupid comparisons rather than debating the actual subject. My view will never change. Skills on all the levels will pay the best returns.

Skills at designing, traffic, selling, producing, programming, porn, marketing, etc. Even emailing. Will always produce the best results.

The throw it at the wall approach is for the less skilled.

Of course Anexia is spot on with this. And still in this niche magazines out payed porn sites.

Shoot 30-40 stills of a girl, get the documents and sell them to magazines as "Readers Wives" which was the Exgf of it's time. Same thing really, just a new name. no video, no outright sale and it was very possible to earn $600 a "set" Selling it in the UK and in the US. Then putting it on your Exgf site. Or selling it to one.

Do a casting in Prague, get 10 girls to turn up with documents. And make $6,000 turn over for a cost of $500. Plus the chance of picking up a new cute one that's worth $6,000 for two sets. And many days work.

The prices I've heard for Exgf custom is $150 to $200 outright for a set and a video.

Yes I know the magazines are dead. Yet we were still doing this in 2008. What custom shooter was. In fact how many custom shooters make $5000 a day for turning out amateur stuff on a regular basis?

hehe - you are the one who keeps mixing novelties into porn - now a homemade porn site cannot be compared? :upsidedow

We had 2 very early clients btw - Karups and Twistys. You have no idea how many sets we shot for Twistys in 2004/2005 - without them we would have never learned how to shoot properly and we would have never survived that time. Thanks Shap and Beth :thumbsup

but we also invested money in our own content and in the shop instead of looking for short term profit - and voilá, we're in 2012 and doing better than ever. And i am not kidding.

what separates us both is that you keep thinking a name or skill has something to do with porn or what is currently in demand. you keep throwing around names of people like Steven Hicks or Suze Randall that cater to a small niche and who would never sell to a broader audience.

we just adapt to whatever is in demand - just a very few people even know who actually shoots what we sell. :)

and when the owner of MyDirtyHobby buys half of the porn biz, including Twistys, this should answer your question

yes, but how many toilets do they have? :winkwink:

Porn shops never used to make a lot of money selling novelties. You're the one that keeps bringing novelties into it. Yes a homemade site can be compared. If it's really homemade content or as good as real homemade content, then it's all about what I'm saying.

We would never work for Karups or Twistys, they couldn't afford to pay us. The idea of a newbie shooter shooting for a glam site is crazy. Karups or ATK is fine. They were buying on price.

Yes in the content game if you couldn't make more money by keeping ownership of the content, something was wrong. Did you make more keeping ownership of the content than selling it once to Karups?

No you've gone the same route as everyone else to justify a weak argument. In most cases, the top glam sites, couldn't afford the top glam shooters. In most cases, the top teen sites couldn't afford the top teen shooters, the top gonzo sites couldn't afford the top Gonzo shooters and so it goes on in most niches. Stop talking on one track to justify a weak argument.

Most sites adapted to what they could afford.

http://whois.domaintools.com/brazzers.com http://whois.domaintools.com/mydirtyhobby.com

Coincidence or what?

The problem is Madalton hasn't bothered to debate the issue, just gone off on his own track. No matter the niche or style, the better the content the better the conversion ratios and retention. Now the only question is why didn't online go for the top shooters in most cases?

He actually admits that he was still learning how to shoot in 2004/2005 and selling to Karups and Twistys. That effects the income of affiliates. How many more sponsors bought from shooters who "without them (sponsors) would have never learned how to shoot properly"?

Nice to know you confirmed my side of the debate. Maybe the sponsors could of been more helpful and had programmers, designers, marketing people, support reps, who were still learning. :1orglaugh

No, I think it's that they don't want to watch you on video. As the numbers prove.

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

jesus, Paul, at some time even you must realize what you are writing there...

"Porn shops never made much money selling novelties" - thats the most hilarious thing i read in ages

have you ever been to a warehouse of Beate Uhse or the likes? I was.

but i am sure they build this huge logistic centers only for the few shelves with DVDs which take like 5% of the space to fill the other 95% with totally useless toys, clothes and other totally unprofitable bullshit :1orglaugh

Not Beate Uhse, but I've been in the business of selling DVD and videos to porn shops, wholesalers and porn chains long before you were in the porn business. Anyone who knew porn prior to 2000 also knows the truth. Anyone that's been to the Berlin Venus show over the years knows the truth. It used to be dominated by the porn DVD and before DVD video producers. Today DVD might be 5%. Consumers can get it for free online. :1orglaugh

Still nice to know sponsors were buying content from you while your were a newbie shooter still learning. That must be so pleasing for affiliates sending traffic to these sites. I wonder how many other newbie shooters they gave a leg up into the the business to. And why? :Oh crap

Troll Successful..

he can speak of content production but nothing else, because he hasnt tired anything else, he can only guess, speculate and rant on that theirs no money in it.

guessing doesnt count.

nice yellow teeth

if you think this will get you any attention you're probably wrong :winkwink:

Thanks to Shap i even met a couple more clients at that time

and because Twistys was probably doing so horrible at that time with all that newbie content, they got all those webmasters to promote them and members signing up :error

i'm sitting here, doing excellent, and just smile :)

Did you manage to save yourself a few dollars a month by getting some free hosting?

Good to see you made it Madalton. Still thank you for confirming what I was saying. Seems even more sponsors were willing to help you instead of use content from established people. Were you cheaper than the more established? I know you were cheaper than me.

Cheaper than Stephen Hicks for sure :winkwink:

but still not cheap enough, i cant count how many times people asked me to shoot boy/girl for $600 to $800 a scene - sorry, cant do that.

but dont worry for me Paul, i studied business management and controlling was one of the courses i had to take. therefore it didnt matter to me what "established" people charge. I only look at myself.

but now imagine this: many sites just exist because the owners did their content themselves and when they started they didnt know anything about photography. and still the sites became a success and everyone happily sent traffic

being "establised" means shit when you dont produce whats in demand

Yes they couldn't afford Steve, most couldn't afford me and Eva. :winkwink:

Yes many sites did start with the owner shooting or someone close to the owner. Met-Art maybe, Perfect Gonzo, Alsscan, Bang Bus, Viv Thomas or DVTimes. All still going.

Not everyone who started their own site and shot for themselves made it. Unseenworld was one and there have been many more who failed. Some knew all there was to know about driving traffic.Yet when the surfers hit the site, they saw the site wasn't worth buying from. So did their affiliates.

And we've seen these sites fail time after time. Would the number of successes or the number of failures be proof of the system working or not?

As someone who has studied business management did they teach you about having something better than the rest of the herd?

The only real question is this. Would many have made more money by rising above the crowd or staying where they were as just one of the crowd?

Could a site or sponsor afford to pay the top dollar others were paying and make more money?

With your business training and knowledge of the industry you will know the answer is yes. So now the question is. Why didn't they?

dont put your words in my mouth, Paul

That's what he does nowadays. It's pretty low-level skills for troll of the year to have to pretend you said something and then argue against that.

Colour me disappointed.

why not get free hosting, if it saves you on cpu resources, if you have ever had hun listing, digg listing, or even fark listing you would know what im speaking of.

but then again you havent.

OK you put your own words in here. What will a newbie shooter who admits he was learning and his content shows wasn't very good at that point, bring to the table of a sponsor. Other than a cheap price?

This is business, no one should be giving you work so you can learn how to produce the product they're selling and publishing. How would affiliates like it if it were a programmer, designer or support rep? the guy is new so we're giving him the work so he can learn. :upsidedow

Words in your moth. Well I will tell you what you should know. Porn was a far bigger business than online. A porn producer had different avenues to sell his content. Online, DVD, Cable, Hotels, Magazines. A good shooter of the level that could crack those markets, employed by a site owner, could sell the work to some of these other markets. Solo girl sites are pretty much left with Magazines, Lesbian has more appeal and BG even more. Even niches had other avenues.

By going to the avenues of income, they would of been able to fund the extra expense of a top shooter. Twistys might of had a problem getting a Viv Thomas or Steve Hicks. Still there were other shooter who could be afforded. I know for a fact they could of afforded one of the top UK Big Boob shooters. He worked for a Big Boob publisher who were into magazines and DVD. Wages, $60k+ One of his sets would of sold for $3,000 absolutely no problems. The limits of his earnings was the number of Big Boob girls he could shoot. Insatiable market.

Now either online couldn't afford to pay this guy his wage, location, model, equipment costs or the sponsors were to bad at management to look at the world around them.

The same goes for other shooters. Most were self employed because of the money, a few were not.

Would the content cost more? No, might even be less of a cost.

Was it possible? Yes, if they had sat and thought about it.

So why not, why go to a less talented shooter like so many did and give them the work?

Fris, I have had TGP galleries on those sites, paid for some. Look up my Whois and see the hosts. I think they could handle the load.

Damian, he ignored my question and will probably ignore this one. I was being nice to him and assuming he knew the answer.

Paul, word to the wise, if you're going to lie, pick a better lie than to say you've had FHGs on digg and fark.

OK some education is required here for those who only know online. In regards to content production.

Content producers were first and foremost businessmen. The costs of running a business producing porn that publishers and then consumers didn't buy, will send most bankrupt. Film, model, Make up, location, etc. All costs money. Often money we never saw till publication or acceptance plus a month. Few sent us a 50% deposit to shoot content.

So we had to not only be good, we had to run good businesses.

All it takes to get us to work for people is money. Lay the money down and we will work. Because in most cases there are a few days to spare. Also there's the "Online" license. We rarely sold outright unless it was for a very juicy sum. Few of us had cash flow problems, when you can wait 6 months to get paid, you can't be broke. That's for those who need a 50% advance to pay the models, make up, location, etc.

Approach a decent shooter and tell them "We will pay you $XYZ for a scene and we want 1-XYZ of a girl in different settings, dress, etc" and we will say yes or no. When someone offers us $1500 for five scenes, we realise that this takes us away from doing other work, or worse still. They might submit it to magazines and poach in our market.

A solo girl scene, nothing too fancy, for $500 isn't usually going to cut it. $1,000 and we are falling over each other to grab the money. It's on top of the market we had already shot for. We would make sure the license wasn't for our other markets, unless the offer was too good to turn down.

Now then to even think a newbie shooter or someone who can't sell for more can offer the same quality is absurd. A few sites prove it. The truth is 95% of the sites couldn't afford us. sounds harsh, but true. They simply didn't have the money to invest. I've met them over and over again. They want a level of quality they can't afford.

This often goes for niches as well. Great leg fetish guys were never shooting scenes for $500. she Male was a very lucrative DVD market. Online couldn't afford the top tier. It was all available to be bought, if the offer was right.

The difference is you own or are sending traffic to a site in the FTV, Met Art tier of porn. Not to site that has little more to offer than the rest in the niche. They can make money as well, if enough people send enough traffic that some converts. As much, do their affiliates earn as much?

Should do because we know how much money there is in online porn. Well there was.

You might start to doubt that when all you get offered in a deal to tie up with a sponsor is some lame deal or worse still rev share.

That might be all you need to make a conversion but if the product sucks you will have no rebills at best and major chargebacks at worst.

buying one or two sets might have been a mistake, buying hundreds of sets would have been stupid. so if you want to call Shap stupid, who retired as millionaire on the Bahamas half your age, then it's up to you.

also you are probably the only shooter then who claims that in 20 or 30 years he didnt learn the slightest bit.

but hey, you weren't shooting anyways, Eva or your makeup girl did that for you.

now let me get back to fulfilling orders and writing invoices...

:)

which actually leads me to the question: did you tell your clients that paid $3000 per set that your wife or your makeup girl was shooting it?

this is leading nowhere, Paul...

never takes long for paul's offensive personality to make it ok to hate him again.

I think his wife takes better pictures :2 cents:

I always viewed Paul more as the Edsel of the porn industry.

Absolutely the truth.

One of the things that can separate a site is the actual product. A great product leads to more sales, more retention, more repeat buying. And in porn, more traffic seeing it as a free sample, being interested, clicking the link and then the rest.

Mediocre product produced by a newbie or someone who can't produce at the better paying levels leads to less people interested, buying, stay buying and returning to buy. This goes to daily purchases like a newspaper or Jumbo Jets. Anyone who wants to argue the opposite is clearly finding excuses for the lack of funds to get a great product.

Madalton, you're now showing clear desperation and a clear lack of business knowledge, asking about if they cared who shot the set. Go away and think it through.

I don't care if I shot it, Eva Katka or Jana. The 4 shooters we had in the company. All we cared about was whether it sold. Which it did and for a lot more than your work ever sold for. :1orglaugh

And the other three were all trained by me. :thumbsup

Another fool joins in, sticks his head above the parapet and gets it blown off. :thumbsup

If that was the case more French cuisine would be sold than burgers, More Tolstoy than Dan Browne, More Solaris than Star Wars.

The little success you had was due to you being mediocre not through being original or good. Producing routine photographs for dull magazines.

There is still a market for crap, it's just they don't want your crap.

True and more people preferring my crap to your superior product.

A market you could never of got into.

Which is why I lasted so long.

French Cuisine is great, it's just for most too expensive. Tolstoy has lasted how long and Dan who? Joking but he won't be remembered. Star Wars is a great movie. Not crap in any way. It even has cuts and editing. :1orglaugh

The magazines were dull in your opinion. As someone who shoots dull porn, you wouldn't have a clue why they sold.

There's a market for good amateur, a lot bigger than you will ever reach. For crap, it still has to be good crap. You just have no idea what porn is, why people watch it and too tied up in your own ego to realise it's not about you boring the knickers off a girl telling her how clever you are. It's about getting her turned on and excited.

[QUOTE=Paul Markham;18789046]
The magazines were dull in your opinion. As someone who shoots dull porn, you wouldn't have a clue why they sold.

QUOTE]

To sell sex when there is no competition is hardly atomic physics.

The UK mags were very dull and the photography piss poor thats why the "Lads Mags" wiped them out.